Vertex Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I was sitting here pondering some questions pertaining to the very concept of love... I heard a song on the radio (I forgot by who) that went "I love you always forever Near and far closer together Everywhere I will be with you Everything I will do for you"... and while the concept seems very dreamy and ideal in theory, I wondered how plausible it really is. I know during the honeymoon stage of a relationship, after love begins to bloom, there's a certain connection that is intense in magnitude, no? I mean it seems really easy to truly believe it when you say "I'll always be with you" or "I will love you forever," but I wonder if it is fanciful or useless to truly believe in such things now because you can never accurately predict the outcome of a relationship or understand certain causal chains. Mind you I would never discuss this sort of thing with anyone in person, as it is more of an inner-monologue-oriented rhetorical question, perhaps. Regardless, would an inherent disbelief if words of this nature cause more problems than it would be to play along with them in hopes that they indeed turn out true? For example, I know many, including myself, have been in relationships where you may truly feel that you can say "I will love you forever" and mean it, but of course, as events play out, those words are rendered obsolete as the relationship takes a nosedive in the wrong direction. Now, what if one were to go into a new relationship, and get to the point where one hears these words again? Would it be wrong to feel that those words are blurred by the haze of a relationship's newness and keep a certain distance from the idea? Or would it simply be better to allow yourself to be immersed in it with the knowledge that it can just as easily turn out to be false later?
Touche Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I was sitting here pondering some questions pertaining to the very concept of love... I heard a song on the radio (I forgot by who) that went "I love you always forever Near and far closer together Everywhere I will be with you Everything I will do for you"... and while the concept seems very dreamy and ideal in theory, I wondered how plausible it really is. I know during the honeymoon stage of a relationship, after love begins to bloom, there's a certain connection that is intense in magnitude, no? I mean it seems really easy to truly believe it when you say "I'll always be with you" or "I will love you forever," but I wonder if it is fanciful or useless to truly believe in such things now because you can never accurately predict the outcome of a relationship or understand certain causal chains. Mind you I would never discuss this sort of thing with anyone in person, as it is more of an inner-monologue-oriented rhetorical question, perhaps. Regardless, would an inherent disbelief if words of this nature cause more problems than it would be to play along with them in hopes that they indeed turn out true? For example, I know many, including myself, have been in relationships where you may truly feel that you can say "I will love you forever" and mean it, but of course, as events play out, those words are rendered obsolete as the relationship takes a nosedive in the wrong direction. Now, what if one were to go into a new relationship, and get to the point where one hears these words again? Would it be wrong to feel that those words are blurred by the haze of a relationship's newness and keep a certain distance from the idea? Or would it simply be better to allow yourself to be immersed in it with the knowledge that it can just as easily turn out to be false later? Good questions. I'm not sure this is the best way but I've always gone with the latter. Throw myself into it while kind of bracing myself for the fall. And usually there was one...until I met the right one. I just don't like the idea of living life half-assed. And to me, any other way would be half-assed. It's always been all or nothing for me. People like that (like me) though get hurt easier but they also feel more intense joy I think.
Yamaha Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I think your question is, "Can you trust again?" I think you can, in time. I think the problem with your previous gal was she just wasn't at the point in her life that she wanted a serious guy. The two of you were not on the same time line. Wanting a relationship is just as important as having a connection. Many have ended because one of you weren't ready. It takes more than love.
MadDog Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I don't think it's fair to the other person if you hold yourself back based on past experiences. It's a good thing to learn from your mistakes. At the same time, you shouldn't let previous experiences get in the way of a present relationship. I think it's worth the risk of potentially getting more hurt in the end for the chance or something really great than to take less risks but be limited in the amount of happiness you can achieve. It all comes down to how much of a risk taker you are. Some people get hurt once and never fully let themselves go afterwards. Others have been through several breakups but treat each new relationship like it's their first. Nothing ventured nothing gained. That's the idea here.
Touche Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I don't think it's fair to the other person if you hold yourself back based on past experiences. It's a good thing to learn from your mistakes. At the same time, you shouldn't let previous experiences get in the way of a present relationship. I think it's worth the risk of potentially getting more hurt in the end for the chance or something really great than to take less risks but be limited in the amount of happiness you can achieve. It all comes down to how much of a risk taker you are. Some people get hurt once and never fully let themselves go afterwards. Others have been through several breakups but treat each new relationship like it's their first. Nothing ventured nothing gained. That's the idea here. Well said! That's exactly the way I think and have lived. Anything less is cheating yourself and the other person.
Walk Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 would an inherent disbelief if words of this nature cause more problems than it would be to play along with them in hopes that they indeed turn out true? I think playing along would be more dishonest and lead to failure then any temporary benefit you may get in "playing" along. Would it be wrong to feel that those words are blurred by the haze of a relationship's newness and keep a certain distance from the idea? Or would it simply be better to allow yourself to be immersed in it with the knowledge that it can just as easily turn out to be false later? It's just not realistic!! And if someone says "I'll love you forever.." to me I doubt their sincerity and wonder if they can be trusted if they've already made a promise they can't guarantee. It'd be like me promising to never let you down in anyway. I can't uphold that promise. I will let you down at some point, even if I never intend to. So I would be lying if I made you that promise. Or at the very least, I would be completely naive and ignorant. Or say that I promised to always answer the phone every single time you call. I can put every bit of effort into accomplishing this, but I CAN'T promise you this. So why would I make a promise as huge as loving someone forever if I can't guarantee that they will always put effort into the relationship, or that we won't grow in different directions, or change in some fundamental way. If I can't guarantee something, then I don't give a promise. And saying "I'll love you forever" is a promise to me. A guarantee. Which would make me begin to doubt all the other promises they may make to me. Either they are ignorant and naive, or they're simply saying it because it's easier to say those words then to put the effort into actions. That's why we save those words "til death do us part" for marriage. Theoretically it is the biggest commitment, the guarantee that they will always work to make the marriage last. Not that people today believe this anymore... so I guess why not say you'll love them forever 6 mnths into a relationship. I just don't want to be with someone who can so casually throw around promises that they can't keep.
ehead Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I think your question is, "Can you trust again?" I think you can, in time. I'm not convinced that is his question. I think he is more questioning the fundamentally nature and reality of this thing we call love. There is no litmus test for it, and no agreed upon definition, so it's sort of up to everyone to figure out what it is for themselves. This sort of relativism applies to a lot of humanistic concepts that cannot be irrefutably proved and/or defined, such as soul, God, soul mates, karma, faith, etc ... One of the problems with this is that depending on how you end up interpreting it, "Love" can end up losing much of it's meaning and significance. Of course, the definition supplied to us by movies, books, and Shakespeare invision it being eternal and immutable, powerful enough to overcome all obsticles, worth dying for, etc ... I think I've come close to feeling love like that before ... probably due to my out of control adolescent hormones. Alas, now I'm much more of a realist. I tried being an idealist, but my girlfriend can be terribly unromantic at times, and this eventually caused the realist in me to win out. I suppose ones interrepretion of love is fluid and changes and shifts over the course of a lifetime. Since it's relative, why not think about it whichever way makes you the happiest ? Failing that, just do the best you can.
blind_otter Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I'm not convinced that is his question. I think he is more questioning the fundamentally nature and reality of this thing we call love. There is no litmus test for it, and no agreed upon definition, so it's sort of up to everyone to figure out what it is for themselves. This sort of relativism applies to a lot of humanistic concepts that cannot be irrefutably proved and/or defined, such as soul, God, soul mates, karma, faith, etc ... One of the problems with this is that depending on how you end up interpreting it, "Love" can end up losing much of it's meaning and significance. Of course, the definition supplied to us by movies, books, and Shakespeare invision it being eternal and immutable, powerful enough to overcome all obsticles, worth dying for, etc ... I think I've come close to feeling love like that before ... probably due to my out of control adolescent hormones. Alas, now I'm much more of a realist. I tried being an idealist, but my girlfriend can be terribly unromantic at times, and this eventually caused the realist in me to win out. I suppose ones interrepretion of love is fluid and changes and shifts over the course of a lifetime. Since it's relative, why not think about it whichever way makes you the happiest ? Failing that, just do the best you can. I like this post. Considering the nature of human emotions, their evolutionary function, and the intimate interrelation between memory formation and emotional relevence, I personall think that it's highly likely that the more you deal with emotional pain and suffering, the more jaded you become, in general. I am jaded regarding drug abuse, and that lifestyle, and abusive relationships. It seems logical that love isn't really above the hoi palloi of human emotions. I have a hard time being sappy or romantic. I have laughed at people who professed intense love for me, early in a relationship. Not out of cruelty or mocking them, to be sure, but because the idea was ridiculous to me. experience has taught me that those feelings you have initially in a relationship are totally related to the newness of the person, and to me it feels like getting high off any old drug. When I was young, with less experience in relationship, it was easy for me to get to that point and to feel those feelings. At this point I highly doubt I will ever feel those types of feelings again.
alphamale Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 when it comes to these types of utterances it is better to be honest and straigt-forward. Once most people get to a certain age and have had enough relationships they figure out that most of this stuff is crap. Talk is cheap! Instead of saying "I'll love you forever" why not just say "I love you."?? The important thing is to choose your words very carefully. If someone I'm dating asks me certain questions about the future my standard answer is that I don't know because I don't have a crystal ball. And remember that very relationship ends eventually for a myriad of reasons... breakup, death, affairs, growing apart, blah blah blah.
ehead Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I found this nice quote on the similiar subject of romance: "Being romantic is being able to see the infinite possibility in any moment. It is understanding your own responsibility to embrace the sort-of-stupid along with the larger-than-life because it turns out that they are pretty much the same thing. Being romantic is all about being able to leave caution behind, even briefly; to jump headfirst into something fantastic, not taking consequence into consideration." Just sitting here at work and thinking about it a bit, I've decided my ideas about love & romance can shift and change even more frequently than I thought ... sometimes on a weekly or even daily basis. What was that one song that went "falling in and out of love with you" ? Have you ever felt sort of cynical and jaded alone, only to have it melt away when you are in the presense of your SO ? Sometimes I think it's best not to think.
Author Vertex Posted April 20, 2006 Author Posted April 20, 2006 Too bad a lot of people don't see passion, romance, and logic coexisting peacefully
alphamale Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 Too bad a lot of people don't see passion, romance, and logic coexisting peacefully logic is the antithesis of passion and romance. If romance was "logical" it would be totally worthless. go home and watch some more original Star Trek re-runs
blind_otter Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 logic is the antithesis of passion and romance. If romance was "logical" it would be totally worthless. go home and watch some more original Star Trek re-runs wow I think my panties are wet.
alphamale Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 wow I think my panties are wet. wear a pad tomorrow.
whichwayisup Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 wear a pad tomorrow. Oh gawd, here we go again with the two of you. Do I have to get my hose out now and cool you'z guyz off??
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