Author Vertex Posted April 19, 2006 Author Posted April 19, 2006 Thing is I felt like we DID talk about most of the big issues. It's like one of her fundamental views just changed.
Touche Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 Thing is I felt like we DID talk about most of the big issues. It's like one of her fundamental views just changed. Well you know, sometimes that's just the risk we take in love. It's probably happened to all of us at one time or another. It's always a little bit of a gamble when you open yourself up to another. But as we get older, it gets easier to spot the signs and to know if we really found what we're looking for or not. In the meantime we get our hearts broken a time or two but we heal and move on. Most of us are lucky enough to eventually meet THE right one. I think you will be one of those lucky ones. Just learn from this.
Author Vertex Posted April 19, 2006 Author Posted April 19, 2006 I just noticed she went all-out with the anger... she deleted every comment she's ever made on any of my blogs/profiles/Facebook boards/etc... it's like there's no longer any evidence of any association between us. It's just a little saddening :/ Just the idea of erasing history, that is. To know that something affectionate was once there and now is not... Touche I hope we all find the one... but what if expectations are just too high? I mean I want someone who can commit... or know how to talk through things or speak their mind and look at the bright side of things, and understand the concept of constructive criticism. On that same note I'd hope they're sexually and socially comfortable and fun to be with. Not to mention honest. I mean it just seems like it's so hard to find the right person.
Touche Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 I just noticed she went all-out with the anger... she deleted every comment she's ever made on any of my blogs/profiles/Facebook boards/etc... it's like there's no longer any evidence of any association between us. It's just a little saddening :/ Just the idea of erasing history, that is. To know that something affectionate was once there and now is not... Touche I hope we all find the one... but what if expectations are just too high? I mean I want someone who can commit... or know how to talk through things or speak their mind and look at the bright side of things, and understand the concept of constructive criticism. On that same note I'd hope they're sexually and socially comfortable and fun to be with. Not to mention honest. I mean it just seems like it's so hard to find the right person. You're expectations sure don't sound high to me. They're very similar to mine and to most people's I'd venture to say. And you know why it seems so hard to find the right person? Because it IS! At least for me it was. And I think for most people it is. Whey you have standards and not willing to settle, well you have to be willing to "weed" through the posers. I didn't meet my "THE" one, until I was out of my twenties. In the meantime, I had my heart broken and chose the wrong people to love. Enjoy the dating process. I know it's hard. But we REALLY do learn from each person. And I believe each person we date and get involved with brings us that much closer to THE one. Please don't lower your expectations. So many people do. I'm glad I didn't. It's better to be alone than with the wrong person as I'm sure you know by now. Yes, it's a difficult road to travel at times. But then...good things are never easy to come by are they? Good luck in your journey Vertex. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. She didn't deserve you.
Author Vertex Posted April 20, 2006 Author Posted April 20, 2006 You're expectations sure don't sound high to me. They're very similar to mine and to most people's I'd venture to say. And you know why it seems so hard to find the right person? Because it IS! At least for me it was. And I think for most people it is. Whey you have standards and not willing to settle, well you have to be willing to "weed" through the posers. I didn't meet my "THE" one, until I was out of my twenties. In the meantime, I had my heart broken and chose the wrong people to love. Enjoy the dating process. I know it's hard. But we REALLY do learn from each person. And I believe each person we date and get involved with brings us that much closer to THE one. Please don't lower your expectations. So many people do. I'm glad I didn't. It's better to be alone than with the wrong person as I'm sure you know by now. Yes, it's a difficult road to travel at times. But then...good things are never easy to come by are they? Good luck in your journey Vertex. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. She didn't deserve you. Thanks... I agree with your main points concerning standards. Although being alone is still difficult... but then again I have found that I am more productive lately. It's too much stress and effort diverting a lot of that energy into an obviously-failing relationship.
MadDog Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 But how do you figure out what people want before you start a relationship? I feel like somehow it's too easy to miss signs and they later develop into big things. How do you know what will be a fundamental incompatibility later? How can you even tell if you're in that honeymoon stage where you can't get enough of each other? Like someone mentioned, you've gotta take some risks. It's pretty damn difficult to see any signs anyway during the honeymoon stage. Research has shown that the reasoning centers of your brain are literally suppressed during that time. There's nothing to be ashamed of about a relationship that didn't work out as long as you acted respectfully the whole time. Disappointment is just one of the things you have to deal with if you eventually want to find yourself with a compatible person.
jerbear Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 There you go, man. Be glad you got rid of her. She's simply too immature. Girls start to grow out of that kind of thing around age 30 (sometimes ). Sometimes 40... ex was 40ish.
Noos Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 This girl sounds like she's 14. Love overcomes all does it - does it overcome gambling addiction, alcoholism, infidelity, child abuse or domestic violence? Anyone on this board with a little life experience can tell you a story that would indicate "no". Why do guys always go for drama queens and princesses rather than the well-adjusted girls? Jeez - you're going to tell me that you loved this girl aren't cha?
MadDog Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 Why do guys always go for drama queens and princesses rather than the well-adjusted girls? My last 2 exes were all-star drama queens and believe me, I never went for those type of girls. Crazy girls have a knack for hiding their psycho ways until you've been sucked in though--I never knew what hit me. Having found myself single, I made it a priority to find a girl who had a chill personality. I've got my eyes on the drama queen radar and my finger on the eject button at this point. No one starts off as a psycho drama queen or a**h***, right?
amerikajin Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 Turns out your gut was right after all, and you should be commended for getting to the bottom of it. At least now you know where you stand and you can move on with your life. Yeah, it sucks when someone you thought you were close to ends up putting you out on the curb like the morning garbage pick-up, but that's life in the world of romance. The important thing is to learn from every relationship. Only one relationship will end up being life-long, and it can often take a long time to find that. Most of us settle for having a relationship that lasts long enough to leave a lifelong impression upon us, so that we can take the things we learned on to the next relationship. If she really lives for the games, that's just too bad. I think she will one day realize that you both lost in this situation.
Walk Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 Vertex, Glad you were finally able to see the truth with your ex. You were really hard on yourself on so many points of that relationship. And I noticed that you tended to blame yourself for the relationship failing, when you were busting your ass to make it work. Most of your comments seemed to relate to how she wanted the good time, fun guy... while you were dealing with some very sever emotional aspects in life. Someone who loves and respects you will support you in those times. I'm really impressed with your point of view, and thoughts on this. I think a lot of people would be jaded and bitter at this revelation. But you seem to be using this experience to grow and learn from. I really admire that in a person.
Author Vertex Posted April 20, 2006 Author Posted April 20, 2006 Vertex, Glad you were finally able to see the truth with your ex. You were really hard on yourself on so many points of that relationship. And I noticed that you tended to blame yourself for the relationship failing, when you were busting your ass to make it work. Most of your comments seemed to relate to how she wanted the good time, fun guy... while you were dealing with some very sever emotional aspects in life. Someone who loves and respects you will support you in those times. I'm really impressed with your point of view, and thoughts on this. I think a lot of people would be jaded and bitter at this revelation. But you seem to be using this experience to grow and learn from. I really admire that in a person. Yes she was after the "good time fun guy" and I know I've had some serious events in my life such as death, but I still tried to be optimistic and fun-loving. It is one aspect that really turned me off: If I was willing to look at the brighter side of things despite bad occurrences, is it really worth the effort if my own girlfriend is not willing to do the same? She became a lot more negative than me, and over things that were not really as worse in magnitude (although perhaps this is a moot point as it is oftentimes useless or irrelevant to compare stressors so it may be selfish of me to say this, but it was still frustrating for her to claim that even the smallest of my mistakes would cause her mood to go down the tubes as well as the relationship). And I feel you are also right about the support. Instead of trying to come closer to me with love -- reassurance that despite bad circumstances she would be there for me, she instead complained at how my occasional bad mood totally ruined her day and made her question the relationship. I mean, it's DEATH for crying out loud. No, she is not obliged to stay with me if she feels that it's too much for her to handle, but then again it would just prove that she isn't the one for me. On the same note I still feel as if I held up pretty well despite the whole death thing and so I truly feel as if it is a sort of cop-out for her to say I was always negative about everything. I only went into serious bouts of depression maybe 3 times since it happened, and they'd usually only last for a few hours. Outside of those times I'd still be sad but I'd try to look at the positive side of things, accept the negative, appreciate the past, and realize that life needs to go on and will only get worse if I allow negativity to prevail. Does that make sense at all? I feel very inarticulate today. Nevertheless, thank you for your compliments. I'm still trying to understand everything :/
jerbear Posted April 20, 2006 Posted April 20, 2006 Having found myself single, I made it a priority to find a girl who had a chill personality. I've got my eyes on the drama queen radar and my finger on the eject button at this point. No one starts off as a psycho drama queen or a**h***, right? Mine showed her drama queen side after 2 years. Should had ditched her years ago but was dumb that I didn't.
MadDog Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 Mine showed her drama queen side after 2 years. Should had ditched her years ago but was dumb that I didn't. Yeah but I'm sure there were all sorts of warning signs you didn't want to see and chose not to during those initial 2 years. I definately ignored some thanks to my naivete. Not this time around though.
Bogun Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 Regardless I want to pose a question to you all. We had a small debate over love itself... we seem to share different views and I am wondering what you all think. She believes in "neverending love" where no matter what, you feel love for that individual and will naturally be unable to pull yourself away. Like, it's an inevitable connection that you can never deny no matter what problems arise. This sort of love is not definable in her words and cannot be explained by logic, reason, etc. It's just THERE. I, on the other hand, thought love can always be explained given you know certain things. If two people have similar values, want similar things in a relationship, etc, then they will more naturally have that connection through similarities in how they conduct their lives and so it will be a much stronger attraction/"love." In short I felt like she was being too ideal and thought love was something that just prevails anything and does not require work to keep sustained (her words), whereas I think any form of love will require work to keep it alive. Well your ex obviously has some growing up to do. Anyone that gets excited about "playing games" is one to stay away from. But I disagree with what everyone else has said about this unconditional love being a fallacy. It does exist, however its very difficult for it to exist in a romantic relationship as people's ego's are too involved. Consider the love that someone has for their dog that may pee on the carpets, tear up clothing and be a pain in the ass sometimes. No matter what the pet does, their owner will in most cases still love them. Consider the love that a parent can have for a child that may have done terrible things, (I'm sure some violent criminals in prison still have mothers that love them despite what their child may have done). In some cases unconditional love would mean letting a partner go if that is what will make them happy. This doesn't mean becoming a door mat, or putting others feelings before your own, it simply means removing your ego from the equation and following what your heart tells you. When you really think about it objectively, what we consider romantic love to be is quite a selfish form of love as we only want to keep it going if we are getting something out of it, beyond just being able to love someone.
Author Vertex Posted April 21, 2006 Author Posted April 21, 2006 A mutual friend just showed me a post from my ex: "I kind of miss...missing somebody. I don't really feel lonely, because I am very happy, and I'm hanging out with friends more and laughing and smiling, but at the same time I think there's this tension between wanting to FEEL and not wanting emotional intimacy at all. I've been thinking about why people have random hookups, and the related question of whether I want one. I don't think it's just the fact that we're young and sexual drives are roaring, and when you're feeling tipsy and that person is rightTHERE it's so easy to just go for it...I think maybe there is real appeal in pseudo-intimacy. Being with someone, being totally into someone, just for a night. So brief that it can't go bad. And I don't think people should be blamed for wanting...quality, not quantity, right? At the same time though, I doubt I can trust someone enough...I've always believe that I can really be into people I felt for emotionally. I don't think that is quite true, but maybe I need to put it to the test... " Thoughts? And yes I blocked the mutual friends for good. I don't need to continue reading her stuff, but this makes me feel as is, yet again, I was correct in my assessment of her when we fought. No matter how many times I am "paranoid" or how many times we fight, she continues to prove I was not far off.
MadDog Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 She sounds exactly like I thought she'd sound: immature and shallow but desperately trying not to sound like it. She reminds me of those annoying blogger/EMO chicks that try to sound all deep on their myspace page. I can translate her little blog for you: "I've been going to clubs and bars with my friends. I'm horny and want validation that guys find me hot. I'm sleeping with the next guy that hits on me." There's nothing wrong with wanting to bang but at least be honest about it.
jerbear Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 Wait a month or so, she might contact you again. The feeling of being free usually lasts about a month. Almost all of my ex's do call and try to meet up to "establish a friendship" a month later.
Touche Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 I think maybe there is real appeal in pseudo-intimacy. Being with someone, being totally into someone, just for a night. So brief that it can't go bad. And I don't think people should be blamed for wanting...quality, not quantity, right? At the same time though, I doubt I can trust someone enough...I've always believe that I can really be into people I felt for emotionally. I don't think that is quite true, but maybe I need to put it to the test... " Let's look at these statements. The very first statement is quite interesting. What person who is mature and not superficial would EVER say "I think maybe there is a real appeal in pseudo-intimacy?" NO ONE with a healty sense of themselves would make that kind of statement. Basically I think she's saying there that she finds one night stands appealing. Or she finds a relationship where she sleeps with someone for a few weeks appealing. Those would fall under her category of "pseudo intimacy." A serious, mature and committed relationship would NOT fall under the category she finds "appealing." She goes on to then contradict herself briefly. She realized that finding one-night stand appealing may not be socially acceptable. So to then counter what she says previously, she says " And I don't think people should be blamed for wanting...quality, not quantity, right?" But then she goes back to showing her true colors and says: "At the same time though, I doubt I can trust someone." With that last statement, she tries to justify and rationalize her immature (and I must say, sluttish,) ways. Let's move on to the remaining statements she makes. She says: I've always believe that I can really be into people I felt for emotionally. I don't think that is quite true, but maybe I need to put it to the test... " This tells me that she THINKS she might have a heart...that she THINKS and believes that she can be "into" people she has felt some emotion for..but the fact of the matter is that she has never actually been able to do that. She states that she might have to "put it to the test." That means breaking some other poor sap's heart. She even says, after saying that she's always believed she can be into people she felt for emotionally, that she's not quite sure that that's true. What does that tell you? You see, she's a very selfish and self-involved girl. These statements bear that out. She might develop and become less ego-centric but that's who she is. She even seems to have some awareness of that fact. She seems to realize that she can't really FEEL or SHOW love that is beyond the superficial. Do you not now see that this is HER issue and not YOURS? I'm probably old enough to be your mother and I recognized before I even read this that you were the mature and wiser one here. And you know why? Because once upon a time...I was just like her.
MadDog Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 Because once upon a time...I was just like her. You selfish bitch.
Touche Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 You selfish bitch. I WAS! I really was, MD. That's why I can easily recognize another selfish bitch. I'm not one anymore though. Haven't been for a long time now. I've matured. And it took awhile. I mean it wasn't until I was in my early to mid- 30's before I understood the error of my ways. I was spoiled. I was pursued by men left and right. I was just like so many selfish, ego-centric and immature girls. So you're right to say "You selfish bitch." Because that's what I WAS! (Operative word here is "WAS.")
Author Vertex Posted April 21, 2006 Author Posted April 21, 2006 Very interesting, Touche. Was there anything I could have done to help her understand? Or is it something you have to learn on your own? In a way I am upset because I feel like shr gives herself to everyone but me. Everyone else virtually puts in no effort and gets her full attention, whether it's her exes before me or her future one-night stands. I had to fight for the slightest bit of attention. Why is it so hard for me to once in a while be the lucky guy instead of the person who just has bad s*** happen all the time?
MadDog Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 I WAS! I really was, MD. That's why I can easily recognize another selfish bitch. I'm not one anymore though. Haven't been for a long time now. I've matured. And it took awhile. I mean it wasn't until I was in my early to mid- 30's before I understood the error of my ways. I was spoiled. I was pursued by men left and right. I was just like so many selfish, ego-centric and immature girls. So you're right to say "You selfish bitch." Because that's what I WAS! (Operative word here is "WAS.") So what made you have your epiphany at age 30-something?
Touche Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 I will answer both you, Vertex and MD in this one post. First you, Vertex. A big fat NO to your question as to whether there was anything you could have done to make her understand. There really isn't anything you can do. It just takes maturity, experience, and falling on your ass a few times to appreciate the kind of guy you are. This sounds bad but for some of us sometimes it's too much too soon. Does that make sense? It's almost like a young star who finds fame too early. They can't appreciate it. They take it for granted and then their star falls. After that, they TRULY appreciate things that may come their way. Does that make sense? Because it really is that way. There was/is nothing, I mean NOTHING you can do to show her this. Some of us unfortunately, must learn things the hard way. As far as your thinking that you never can catch a break, hell we ALL have thought that way at one time or another, Vertex. You're not alone. Just hold your head up, keep being as productive as you have been and it will pay off for you before you know it. You don't have to fight for attention. Cop an attitude that you just DESERVE the attention! Do you know what I mean. I sense a little bit of a problem with low self-esteem with you. You need to work on that. Even if you have to fake it at first...do that. It will come. You're obviously very, very intelligent. A true intellectual and very introspective. Work on YOU now. Forget about her. She was obviously beneath you. Good things will start to happen for you before you know it. You'll see. MD, you're question is a bit more complicated. It wasn't any ONE thing. It was more a compilation of things. It entailed experiences, growing up..so many things. That's a tough one. Maybe I can start a thread on that sometime. But it's just not something I can wrap up for you in a pretty bow and answer in one sentence. It was just a combination of experiences (both negative and positive ones) plus just maybe the maturation process..wisdcom...I don't really know how to answer that one. Have to think about it. Sorry, MD. Life is so complicated.
Touche Posted April 21, 2006 Posted April 21, 2006 I just want to add something to illustrate a point I made. I've been happily married now for almost 11 years and I have often told my husband that if we had met when I was in my 20's I would have NEVER committed to him. I would have never appreciated him. He's intelligent, sexy, handsome, kind, funny, succesful and pursued me like crazy when we met. But had we met ten years before we did, I would have had a brief affair with him and moved on. I wanted more men to pursue me then. I wanted my immature ego stroked. I wouldn't have settled for just ONE. I was just like your ex (she IS an ex now isn't she?) Sometimes in life...timing is EVERYTHING!
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