OzGirl Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 Been reading in the Infidelity forum, and as anyone else who reads there would know - the W of MM who find out they had an A seem to mainly want to "work on the marriage". Any ex-OW knows it's a tale all too familiar... So, this is what I want to know - whether you're a betrayed spouse or and OW/OM, what's your take on this? If a man hits a woman, everyone tells her to leave him. But, if he breaks her heart, they encourage her to work on her marriage. Question #1: Why? What's that different in his intention and sense of risk to lose his marriage? Secondly, OW seem to tolerate the MM being married because DESPITE this, he still manages to fulfil them. Question #2: How is that different to the W taking him back after finding out he had an A? Are both women possibly the same "type" of person - that being someone who knows he "shares or shared" her with someone else, but she can't turn her back on him and say "not good enough. See ya".? Your thoughts and theories???
Blind Illusion Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 In answer to #2, off the top of my head, I would say that they are the same type person. They are human and it is always easier to know what to do in spite of your feelings about someone, than to actually do it. Objectively speaking, it might be a little harder for a wife with an established family to not accept this (especially the first time) but I think the tears & heartache of both are essentially the same. Could it be self esteem issues for both? Maybe. Very interesting point. I'll have to think some more about that and about the first part of your question also.
Sami_D Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 I'd say to #1, that abuse is terrible, and illegal, and horribly damaging. And that an abuser can't (easily, without years of work) change his spots. An abusive man can't make a good H (my opinion). I'd contrast that to someone who breaks someone's heart. I think there are more opportunities for a man who has cheated to make it good, to never do it again, and to continue to be a good husband. It totally depends on the man, however, and not all MM could do this. I think that most sane people would advice a W to divorce a husband who treated her with the little respect that some of these MM do. To #2. I think there is some truth in what you say, and I've read posts by both Wives and OW who seem to accept very poor behaviour from the MM and certainly don't seem to expect any better treatment. However, not all BSs who take back a WS do it because they're willing to put up with his nonsense any longer. Neither are all OW women who will accept scraps or sharing. There's me for one ~ I'll never accept sharing him, and if he doesn't leave it's over. Neither would I have got involved with him if he was in a happy (or even OK) marriage, or sleeping with her. What would be the point? I just don't get some women who are happy being a mistress. eta: oh... but not all OW are single. MOW don't have acres of time to lavish on another man anyway.
zarathustra Posted April 17, 2006 Posted April 17, 2006 as per #1, I think that a violence in a marriage is the actual problem, whereas an affair is a symptom of problems in a marriage. I think that a person who is capable of violence will be violent regardless if emotional needs are met in the marriage or not. In general (and yes, there are many scumbag cake eaters), a person may cheat, have emotional affairs because there is something missing in the marriage and he/she don't know how to get needs met except for looking outside the marriage. I think that the heartbreak beween the two actions are equivalently painful. Just one is more forgivable than the other (IMO). Regarding #2, from my last conversation with my xMM, he told me he needed to make a lot of changes before his W took him back. I am not one to share a man, so either he is with me or he's with her. I have a hard time imagining that I can ever be happy as a mistress. My xMM made the choice to leave his M for me because he knew that I love him exactly as he is... no changes required, but then had a change of heart. So he made his choice to change and become someone that his W wants. Good for her that she has the power to do that. I wonder how long the spots are going to stay on that leopard.
Author OzGirl Posted April 17, 2006 Author Posted April 17, 2006 I don't really know exactly what my opinion is on #1. But, Z, I think your post on #2 is REALLY interesting. If what you're saying is that MM ultimately (and soooooo ridiculously selfishly and ironically) end up staying with the W because she expects more of him when she finds out, then that means MM (generally) don't like being labelled a cheater. They don't mind doing it, but they aren't labelled it until they're caught out. So, the OW accepts they are one (as they know they are one). But, the W doesn't? Then, does that support the theory that OW who are seeing MM can expect that he doesn't leave the W for them because he wants to be with someone who demands him to be a more "respectful" TYPE of person, and that's his W, if both the W and OW have knowledge of what he's been doing or done? Whether he will do it again is not something I think he determines at that point of being caught and fixing his mistakes within his M - so whether he'd do it again I guess depends on opportunity and the marriage, etc. I'm not sure - but if that's correct, then maybe an OW who loves the MM should bail out with a strong moral stance of "this isn't good enough", but do so early on - not late in the relationship? Statistically men who leave the W for OW do so within 12 months of meeting the OW, AND, they are literally leaving the marriage anyway - the OW often just tips them over that edge to do it sooner rather than later. I wonder if that's why - because he hasn't done anything that makes him feel like he's less respectful and it's just part of him moving on, AND, the OW hasn't shown him she expects less of him by being an OW for a long time to a man still deeply engrained in his M? Hmmmm... I do find this interesting - thoughts?
My_Other_I Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 If a man hits a woman, everyone tells her to leave him. But, if he breaks her heart, they encourage her to work on her marriage. Question #1: Why? What's that different in his intention and sense of risk to lose his marriage? OK, this is a wild guess and a long shot. Just my theory. Men are expected to protect women, and therefore hitting them is unacceptable from our society-point-of view. Men are also expected to cheat based on the nature of male behavior. Men are considered to be hunters and sperm donors - the more kiddies the better for genetical survival, and therefore women are expected to forgive men when they follow the calling of cavemen traits. Like I said, just a wild guess. I don't agree with it but it would make sense to me. Secondly, OW seem to tolerate the MM being married because DESPITE this, he still manages to fulfil them. Question #2: How is that different to the W taking him back after finding out he had an A? Are both women possibly the same "type" of person - that being someone who knows he "shares or shared" her with someone else, but she can't turn her back on him and say "not good enough. See ya".? Your thoughts and theories??? Love and hope. Need I say more?
Blind Illusion Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 . I have a hard time imagining that I can ever be happy as a mistress. Ok, here's my own personal spin on this: I would have never thought I could be happy as a mistress either (and I do hate that word). Ultimately, i never really was but somehow in my mind, years ago, i convinced that this could be a viable solution 'for now". I was in a stale marriage that reeked of negativity but I had 2 young children. I was in this rut and thought that this was life and I lost that spark to live it like I once had. Only my children mattered. Enter HIM. Somehow, he, also married, made me feel alive once again. (I know now thats a great deal of power to give to another person but I guess I didn't think this through clearly.) It wasn't so much that I accepted half a relationship (although in essence, that's what I did) but this part of life, however small, became my raison d'etre. I read somewhere that with an affair, you take a few crumbs and make a banquet out of it. That's precisely what I did. No, I never demanded that he leave or that the two of us be together but I doubt I would oppose that either. Right now, its at an end of this relationship. I feel like he takes me for granted sometimes and he doesn't have that same impetus to see me that he once did. Thus, I pull back emotionally, even though it hurts me inside. I knew such was probably inevitable and I guess the gradual weaning away from him helped a little. (Or else, it prolonged this, I don't know) I don't want to be bitter...that's important to me. I have learned a lot from him and I hope I can look back at this whole relationship and just see the positives down the line. While my anxiety level has increased due to this affair, so has my self esteem. I credit that for me realizing I don't have to deal with my bad marriage and owe it to myself and my children not to live in such extreme negativity and emotional abuse.
silktricks Posted April 18, 2006 Posted April 18, 2006 I think MOI is very close if not spot-on -- when you think about it, truly violent relationships are not condoned in any society, whereas multiple wives are not only condoned but encouraged in many. (though personally I wouldn't have gone back to my H if he hadn't promised and followed through with a number of changes.)
kkat Posted April 19, 2006 Posted April 19, 2006 My two cents.... I think a big glaring but often overlooked factor in the equation includes the fact that most marriages affected by an affair involve two people, the BS and the spouse who cheats, neither of whom necessarily want to end the marriage. The BS didn't want to end the marriage, and neither, apparently, do most of the cheaters. They want to have an affair, but not end the marriage. This is why they are cheating and not divorcing. So...while the BS is feeling betrayed, destroyed, etc. -- they are also in a marriage that they had no intentions of ending until the affair surfaced, and they have a husband or wife who, once caught, promises the affair is over, lies, and begs them to stay with them. So, they are pulled both by their own natural emotions, the financial, maritial, family, community and other ties, and the pull of the cheater who begs them to stay and work on the marriage. That said, I think that in many many cases, including my own from what I know about myself and my ex-MM's wife, both she and I shared a self-esteem issue in that we both enabled his behavior and chose to stay in a relationship with someone who lied and cheated and who was selfish and hurtful to both of us. I have painfully and slowly moved on; she continues to enable, deny, accept, whatever the m.o. du jour is for her to stay in the relationship. But hey -- I'm 16 years younger than her, have my own life and career of my own creation, and don't need a man in the same way she might feel she does. So I can't blame her for staying with him...look how long I stayed and he certainly wasn't paying my mortage, fathering my children, etc.... Who's the bigger fool? Who cares. I was a big enough fool for both of us!
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