Back Again!

[Tara1973]

Look, I know I made a decision to leave, half- heartedly, but somethings niggling me which I need advice on. (please).

Living together for 5 years, found out he cheated on me twice with two different women. One lasted a month and the other a whole year. BUT the thing is...he dumped the latter two months BEFORE I found out, saying he felt GUILTY and wanted to give me a baby. SHOULD THAT MEAN SOMETHING? ANYTHING?

Im so sorry, but I have never been cheated on before and am seriously confused...

[My_Other_I]

He wants to 'give' you a baby? What a nice gesture! How sweet of him! PUKE.

Your decision to leave is the right one I think. He wants you to have a baby to manipulate you. You will stay with him (you have his baby overall) and he will cheat on you. He has not been able to show responsibility in a relationship. Do you think that's a good start for a baby?

[lovernotafighter]

yeah the 'give you a baby' makes it seem like he's suddenly doing you some kind of favor...any man can 'give you a baby' but can any man be a good father and husband...he already has proved the answer is no.

 

leave while you can...you thinks hard now? trust us it gets worse.

[Curmudgeon]

I agree, and toying with the life of a future child for purposes of manipulation is just plain sick.

 

You can do ever so much better, Tara, and deserve to.

[Blind Illusion]

I posted to you in another thread that I do, in fact, believe that someone's promise that something won't occur again, has more credence with me if I didn't feel they are telling me that as a result of getting caught. That is to say I would probably feel better knowing he dumped the other person on his own accord. (releasing for me, the nagging possibility that had he not gotten caught, this would have continued for God knows how long..)

 

Two things bother me about your post however....that this type of untrustworthy behavior happened twice already. It makes me feel this will be a lifelong habit.

 

Second is the business about giving you a child like he is bestowing upon you some great honor. (please make sure you remind him next time he starts spewing this thinking, that you can easily find any sperm donor to do the same thing that would annoy you a lot less)

 

My biggest concern would be that all these factors would be mixed together. You would be raising a child or children, have this mortgage and his cheating habits would return. Then what? You won't be able to walk away as easily as you can now. Think it over.

 

If for whatever reason you can't walk away from this relationship, take the time, at least, before you start a family. You need to make sure he is going to be a sharing and trustworthy husband and father.

[Sal Paradise]

Dump this loser before you make a huge mistake.

[Jessie61]

 

My biggest concern would be that all these factors would be mixed together. You would be raising a child or children, have this mortgage and his cheating habits would return. Then what? You won't be able to walk away as easily as you can now. Think it over.

 

quote]

 

Yes, Blind Illusion is right; if it is hard to walk out now, what will it be like with a child in your arms in a few years time?

 

Never mind what HE wants, what do YOU want? Look at HIM. Is he the type of guy you want to invest YOUR future in? As a life partner etc? If yes, then you might move on to whether he would make a good father. And if you think he would, then ask yourself if you want a child NOW.

 

You don't have to do anything that you don't want to do, certainly not because he has suggested something or because he wants it. You really need to sit down and think about this one.....

 

Let us know what happens!

[Tara1973]

Truly thank you. I dont have friends in the real world who give me constructive advice. You have suddenly become my friends.

I must just make up my damn mind once and for all. 90% of me is saying go!

At the moment, he is sleeping on the sofa bed. He comes home early from work, cooks for me...he is full of remorse. He looks like a little boy that I just want to hold him. WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME? You are right... It should not make a difference that he dumped her before i found out. Its the fact that he decieved me for two years. There were NO signs. So whos to say he couldnt get away with it next time.

This is going to be hard.

I would be interested to know...have you all been cheated on, too?

[Jessie61]

I would be interested to know...have you all been cheated on, too?

 

Yes, many years ago by a boyfriend. Not quite the same as your situation, but the feeling of betrayal and hurt is probably the same. I did get over it, eventually.....

[Sal Paradise]

I would be interested to know...have you all been cheated on, too?

 

Several times.

 

And yes you will get over it. I am with beautiful girl now who loves and respects me. Don't give up on love (and a lover who will respect you and remain faithful) because of this loser you're with.

[movinon05]

My sister has 2 boys and 1 girl. Before her husband left her for another woman, she got pregnant with their daughter. After he said he wanted to end the marriage, when questioned why he bothered having another child if he was thinking of leaving, he said that he wanted to do this for her - so she could have a daughter! Try to guess how my niece feels knowing this. She wasn't "made from love". She was here because her father felt bad for her mother and wanted to ease his conscience before he exited! She is 17 now. She has spent a lifetime with all kinds of self esteem issues and such with her father. Amazing how people think babies will solve everything not realizing what it does to the child.

[OzGirl]

I'm an ex-OW - split with the MM over 6 months ago. He acted to his W like it sounds your H is to you.

 

He cooked her dinner, carried it to her on a tray, grovelled, all that stuff, and I believe, he was truly sorry. So, he "gave" her a baby. He has 3 children over 18 from marriage #1, but I guess they figured a baby was a "solution". His W has since decided she should have waited. It was too much to deal with at once.

 

I know I'm "the enemy" in this forum, so forgive me for butting in, but IMHO, I think a baby is only diverting your attention from your marriage, and excusing you BOTH from having to focus on the marriage, by becoming focused on the pregnancy and baby. I believe, it's a diversion tactic suggested by him that will relieve him of his pain, which is caused by his guilt.

 

Bare in mind - he ONLY felt guilty when YOU found out. Who knows why he ended it with her. But, if you never found out - he would have got away with it.

 

Don't do that to a child - put all that responsibility on it to solve a problem not related to it. What happens when it grows up in a family, where the marraige hasn't been dealt with, and it puts two and two together and realises why it was brought into the world?

 

I absolutely think having a child is wonderful. But, this is not the solution. Fix your marriage first. The affair is a symptom, not a cause for something to be wrong with it (even if it was only him who thought there was something wrong with it). It IS a good enough reason to kick his sorry ass out on the street.

 

My suggestion is if you were meant to be with him, then fine, you were. So, why not leave him, see what life's like without him, THEN see if there's hope for you still to get back with him? I know it sounds like a logistical pain in the ass, but I'd rather go through all that and be sure, than not and always wonder if he would have done it again, if you'd not found out.

 

Oh, and the bit about no love? That's a load of rubbish. If there was no love then it would be mutual, and she would not have bothered to call you.

 

Best of luck - reconsider what type of father you want for your child. Once he feels he's "off the hook", will he always be this devoted to you (and the child?)?

 

Go read the posts in the OW forums and see what MM do to women to make them have affairs with them - the lies, the deceit. It goes to them as well as you, and it's indicative of the person doing it - that they are who they are.

 

If a man cheated on me, I would kick him out, because I know I'm worth the decency to be loyal and faithful, even when it's a bore or whatever to have to be. It's part of marriage, and marriage is part of life. It's unforgivable, and unfortunately, it's taken the revelation of lies beneath what I thought was a truth for me to figure this out (*duh*)... but it's my mistake, I own it, I suffered for it, and now I've learnt from it.

 

He's done it once (well, been caught out once), so you can walk away with reason. If he does it again, you will blame yourself for letting him. Baby in tow - that's a massive weight to carry on your own.

 

Tell him to leave. He's not worth you. We are creatures of survival, and this is survivable. Move on. The next couple of years will be hard if you stay, and hard if you leave. AT LEAST if you left you would be free, independant and in control of who can hurt you and who can't.

 

If a man hits a woman, everyone tells her to leave him. But, if he breaks her heart, they encourage her to work on her marriage. What's the difference? Once an a**h***, always an a**h***.

[zarathustra]

I'm amazed that people can be so selfish as to knowingly and intentionally bring children into the world when they know that they aren't in the position to bring them up in a stable home! This guy thinks that he's doing you a favour? What about the child... is he doing the child a favour if he 'gives' you a baby? What a f-cking loser!!! You said you were 90% sure of leaving him. You can be 100% sure as its crystal clear. Tell him not to let the door hit his ass on the way out when you kick him to the curb.

[Tara1973]

I know. I know about the baby issue. But what about the fact that he dumped her two months before I found out? It show that there is a little decency in him, I think.

And thankx, Ozgirl. I dont actually blame OW. you see, my boyfriend had a choice. It is always a choice.

[OzGirl]

I know. I know about the baby issue. But what about the fact that he dumped her two months before I found out? It show that there is a little decency in him, I think.

And thankx, Ozgirl. I dont actually blame OW. you see, my boyfriend had a choice. It is always a choice.

 

So, he dumped her. How come? It's easy for him to say he felt guilty NOW THAT YOU KNOW about it. But, what's the REAL reason? Maybe the OW was sleeping around (I doubt it, because that's not typical behaviour of an OW who's having an EA and a PA with a MM)? Maybe they had an argument? Maybe he found someone new online to entertain or whatever. You don't know WHY he ended it - but WHY are you focusing on that?

 

WHY did he start it? What was it that made him give himself permission to knowingly step outside the clear and obvious and sacred boundaries of his marriage? WHY was he prepared to risk losing you? WHEN did your value drop for him to risk it in such a hideously revolting and deplorable manner?

 

Maybe he ended it because he told the OW he was going to leave his "dead end marriage" and be with her one day (hence keeping her around, and her staying around in hope wanting it to happen). Maybe, the OW got sick of this line of promises unfulfilled and said she was going to call you to find out the truth on the marriage (I did this to my MM many a time - asked him if the M is so "over", then why is his W still there? I said I would call her - based on what he told me she shouldn't mind me doing so, right? Well, I didn't, but it made him back off slightly through fear of being caught, I think).

 

I think he wanted (a) his cake, (b) to eat it, and © not get caught doing it. Perfect. So, he did that - he had you, a mistress and then ended it before it was ended by the OW or you (finding out).

 

My point is, whether it ended retrospectively or not, I think you're finding this really hard to face and deal with, and I can see you're in pain by what you're avoiding, which is the painful truth.

 

He cheated on you. He had little respect for you and your marriage when he started it, and he felt comfortable to continue it because he was getting away with it. That entire time, for you, is a lie and a farce.

 

I'm going to say something and it's horrible - but you really have to face the pain of accepting - he left the marriage a long time ago. He changed it, and had he said at the time "I'm going to go sleep with another woman, and confide in her all my thoughts and fears and laughter and tears", you would have told him not over your dead body. If he said "too bad, I'm going to", then wouldn't you consider that a long way of saying "I want out of this marriage" ?

 

I know it's hard to turn your back on him NOW that he's going to so much effort to please you and seek your forgiveness. But, *DUH*, he could have avoided this pain for himself by not doing it. How difficult is that to figure out?

 

You decide. Is it worth trying to work out what was missing in your marriage, in his opinion (for all it's worth now), at the time the affair started, and trying to go back to that time and start fresh? Because, even if it was just sex he was after with the OW, I'm sure it's not that easy for you to get physical with him now that everytime he touches you, you think of him touching another woman. So, quite rightly, I would think it's hard for you to "hand over" to him yourself physically in the wake of this. Well, how do you know he's not going to go looking for sex elsewhere if he's not getting it at home? I know that sounds really simple..... but on what level is this man thinking? It doesn't sound like he thought on a very complicated level when he went looking for a means to an end when the affair started.

 

I think, he's destroyed the marriage, and you have to accept it and suffer the inevitable pain that goes with that, and amidst all that, believe that you are just as worthy as any other woman of a loyal partner. This is NOT the best out there for you. You DON'T have to settle for this.

 

And, really, he did this, and now you're expected to put some work into the marriage as a consequence. Walk out and conserve your energy for better things.

 

You.

[OzGirl]

I forgot to add...

 

How much of this is about you? Not the affair itself, but your indecision on whether to stay or leave?

 

I left an abusive relationship, then two years later, became an OW. My self esteem was low, and I questioned if I would ever be loved. Past experience, even at school, showed me I wasn't worthy of a nice man. I meet a MM who says I'm beautiful, treats me like a gentleman, forgives me for my imperfect body, buys me gifts, and most of all, brings out the best in me.

 

The best in me was my confidence and sense of self-worth when I was around him. I felt like I could have been Julia Roberts in his eyes, for want of a comparison. I never questioned if this relationship was good enough for me. For me, it was the best I'd had to date.

 

It ended for his W finding out. It was abandonment what he did to me, and I have never been so distraught in my life. The foundations of all I thought I knew, and the expectations of the life I had planned out (when he left the W, as promised, of course) was gone, and I was in a vacuum with no where to start from, let alone any direction to go to.

 

But, we are creatures of survival and I kept telling myself, this is survivable. It's a line I use whenever something seriously traumatic has happened in my life.

 

NOW - I have survived this. And, now, I know what it's like to be in a rotten relationship and let that happen because I didn't think I could get any better (prior to meeting the MM), AND, I know what it's like to be treated like a queen.

 

I now have the self confidence, and place enough worth on my head to say I'm worth the loyalty of a good and decent man, and there is one out there for me, and we're just yet to have our worlds collide. But, I don't believe it won't or can't happen. It can and, therefore, I think probably will.

 

And, I think having a good "friend" as a partner is a good place to start and always maintain. The minute a man stopped being that to me, is the minute before the minute I exit out of the relationship. I would put it down to him not being the "one" for me, so time to get out, get through the pain and get to that starting point again.

 

Maybe it sounds like a hassle, or being alone is something to fear more than compromising to be with someone for the sake of being with anyone. But, being alone has the advantage of being in control of what and who's in your life. It has the advantage of being available for when new friends come along. And, it has the advantage of NOT being with people who don't put the effort into the relationship.

 

So, my point (sorry to take so much space up concluding it) is, is this a question about what you think you're worth? Are you weighing up whether this is the best you can get and therefore, should stay with it? Have you considered the best for you RIGHT NOW could be to be single?

 

Alone can be hard when you're not used to it. But, it forces you to do some soul-searching and the triumphs of achievement for doing things on your own are often what you need to see that you really are worth more. Instead of expecting your husband to make you feel loved and special, you feel lovable and special anyway.

 

I've seen the other side of affairs. I've been in the OW forum for several months and the stories are so similar. Knowing what I do, I would NOT believe a word a man tells me after he got caught. Simple as that. The TRUTH is they are seasoned, practiced, expert liars. They lie to get the OW. They lie by not telling their W the truth about their whereabouts when it's happening, and most revolting of all, they LIE to the W in order to not be rejected by her. Any decent man would voluntarily leave if he got caught out and the truth was important to him.

 

Regardless of how many men fantasise about being with another woman, it's just NOT ACCEPTABLE to turn that into reality whilst you're married. They all know that. Only a handful of the ignorant ones do it anyway.

[Tara1973]

We're not married. But everything you say is still relevant. Please dont take this the wrong way, Ozgirl, but you dont sound like an OW. You dont sound like you ever could be. The things you say sound like they come from a betrayed spouse. Can I ask, did the othe wife/girlfriend of your guy ever find out?

I am going to leave him. I cant live with this distrust, always wondering. Never believing. And when I go to touch him I see the OW...both of them. Is it normal to have visions flashing in your mind of his sexual encounters or am I being bizarre?

[Tara1973]

Ozgirl, ignore some of the stuff in my last post. for some reason I missed your last post which had the anwers.

[OzGirl]

Please dont take this the wrong way, Ozgirl, but you dont sound like an OW. You dont sound like you ever could be. The things you say sound like they come from a betrayed spouse.

 

.......

 

Is it normal to have visions flashing in your mind of his sexual encounters or am I being bizarre?

 

Hi, I think my feelings were the same as a BS in that I thought they were separated but living in the same house. My parents did that before they divorced, so I believed it as being absolutely possible. I befriended his kids, etc, so all seemed plausible. So, he left me to continuing loving someone else. In basic terms, the feelings I went through were similar to a BS. I read a lot of books on infidelity trying to get my head around what had happened from my perspective, his and his wife's. I'm not going to take it the wrong way that I don't seem like an OW - believe it or not - most of the ex-OW I've seen in the OW forums are like me - tackling it head on for all it's disgraceful glory and just sifting through the pile of crap so they can get past it and not let it raise it's ugly head again.

 

Yes, it's normal to have those visions. Even to dream about them together - we often confront our fears in our dreams, and it's all normal, even if it gets a bit wild and far-fetched to you.

 

I know everyone likes to recommend counsellors, but I believe psychologists are better trained and have a wider perspective and understanding of people in general, and I think maybe you need to see one, not to rebuild your marriage, but to rebuild you where you feel broken. But, maybe you're not ready for that, or maybe it won't get that bad. I didn't see one, for example, despite the pain.

 

The best way for me to get armed was to seek the knowledge myself. I scoured the internet, I bought books, I listened to the stories about other people's lives in this forum and the OW/OM forum, and forced myself into a space where I had to get busy (renovating a house). For all the times I felt like giving up for having no direction, I now feel "armed and dangerous" with a newfound, but humbler, confidence in myself, and protection of myself.

 

I'm proud of myself, without sounding like a dick for saying that. You will too. My MM's wife got pregnant (willingly) and it saved them both, for the time being anyway, from dealing with what's actually happened. It's just a diversion tactic to switch focus.

 

It takes time, and most of all, the courage to learn about what has happened inside you, accept that, and work from there to a new and better place. More people than not seem to pay that lip service without the tenacity to live it through without giving up. Don't give up.

[Mz. Pixie]

Two affairs? I'm sorry- I believe anyone can make one mistake but the fact that he's done this twice speaks volumes. He's a serial cheater. He's never going to respect you if you take him back at this point, he will always believe that he can do whatever he wants to you and you'll take him back.

[silktricks]

I thought they were separated but living in the same house. .

 

yup - very possible. My H and I were.

 

The funny thing is that my H told his EA that he had moved downstairs during the EA, but the reality was that I had moved downstairs about a month before he STARTED the EA. While he was telling her that he was trying to decide whether or not to divorce he was telling me that he wanted me to come back to him.

 

When I moved back "in" he told me about the EA.

 

Because the relationship was never physical and because I had been absent from his life in so many ways I also felt a lot of the cause for his fall from grace was directly on my shoulders. (plus I love him to death and he's made and/or is making all the changes that made me leave in the first place.)

[target-d]

And, I think having a good "friend" as a partner is a good place to start and always maintain. The minute a man stopped being that to me, is the minute before the minute I exit out of the relationship. I would put it down to him not being the "one" for me, so time to get out, get through the pain and get to that starting point again.

 

Maybe it sounds like a hassle, or being alone is something to fear more than compromising to be with someone for the sake of being with anyone. .

 

OzGirl, I would assume that the "minute" doesn't really mean a minute, because the one thing that all relationships take is time and work. If everytime someone disappoints us we bail, then we also aren't showing any commitment to the relationship and it dies.

 

I'm not saying that the woman should accept everything and anything, but we do need to accept some things, even some hard things in order to have a fulfilling life with anyone.

 

Compromise is a part of any facet of life. Without it, one is never able to get along in any kind of relationship. Compromise out of fear is of course not the thing we should be doing, but compromise out of love is done everyday in every relationship.

 

I don't think I'm saying anything here that you don't already know and believe, but sometimes it's important to say even the things we all assume. Keep taking care of yourself Oz. It sounds like you've been through a lot of hard times.

[target-d]

The funny thing is that my H told his EA that he had moved downstairs during the EA, but the reality was that I had moved downstairs about a month before he STARTED the EA. While he was telling her that he was trying to decide whether or not to divorce he was telling me that he wanted me to come back to him.

 

I've read some of your posts. I hadn't realized that you two were actually separated when your H had his A, then I read back and realized that you had alluded to it, but hadn't stated it straight out like you did in this post. Did that lessen the blow when you found out about it? Do you regret the choices you made? What would you do different if you had it to do over again? Why did you choose to go back to H even after he told you of the A?

[OzGirl]

OzGirl, I would assume that the "minute" doesn't really mean a minute, because the one thing that all relationships take is time and work. If everytime someone disappoints us we bail, then we also aren't showing any commitment to the relationship and it dies.

 

I absolutely agree with what you've said. But, in this example, I believe there are boundaries. I don't believe that ALL things are tolerable and should be worked on. This is not minor, or okay as far as I am concerned - to cheat on your spouse. That is just way over-stepping the line of what defines as being something to work on, and something that's completely stupid and is done, with the wayward spouse knowing full well it's revelation could instantly kill there marriage. Anyone who thinks they can cheat, but work on it if they get caught, is seriously over-estimating their importance in the world.

 

Like they say - the worst bet you can make is the one you can't afford to lose. If they make the bet they can get away with it, then they also are betting they can afford to lose it.

 

That's not one of life's mistakes. It's not something a man has done to a woman he met yesterday. He's been married to her, and done "life" with her - for all the ups and downs and times of compromise, trials, errors and triumphs. It's because of THAT, he ought to know where the limits are. It's because she suffers his mistakes, and believes he will endure hers, there ought to be a high value on that partnership placed.

 

Willingly breaking the link in that chain of marriage is stupid, idiotic, selfish, and, I'm sorry to say - unforgivable. Some things I would accept as being human and part of life. If my marriage sucked ass through a straw, then fine, I would talk about it and DO something mutually constructive. If my husband couldn't grant me that respect, then out with him.

 

I like to hug trees with the best of them, but no, zero tolerance on this one.

[OzGirl]

Might be way to early on in the process to think of this.

 

But, what happens if you stay with this man, and essentially, you've taught him to take you for granted, because he knows that EVEN after cheating on you, you'll stick around?

 

Most WS will grovel and crawl and cry and act apologetic and do all that stuff to save their marriage. What if after a few years, it's back to where it is now?

 

What THEN if you met someone really nice? YOU would be stuck in this marriage and have to contemplate leaving it or having an affair, even.

 

We all have our bias' on the creation of our advice. I admit, I have mine. I have never relied on a man financially. I've been the "bread winner" in the house either single or when I've had a partner. I don't fear losing my house or disrupting my child. I made a choice when she was a baby to do it then, and not let her have a life where she knows any different. I share care of her with her father and she thrives in that environment because her parents are happy and confident and show "love" to her, just not by doing so to each other.

 

But, to be fair, my life is set up this way for absolute relentless hard work. I look older than I am, and find it hard to meet men who aren't intimidated by my obvious sense of not "needing" them. But, I am proud of the example my daughter has, and I feel I am "true" to myself. I also keep looking long term - where to I want to be and where do I not want to be (relationship wise).

 

I am hoping one day I get swept off my feet, but I have learnt that whether it's a business contract or a personal relationship - always be aware of "worst case scenario", even if the chances of it happening are almost nil. And, always have an exit plan. By doing so, you are always "in" by choice, and never, ever feel stuck or trapped. THEN, the feeling becomes that of freedom, and for me, I feel like it travels on a really good level. I am relaxed to be myself, and I think I get to show the "best of me".

 

So, that information given, you can see why I say I have boundaries that I just won't tolerate. I don't see why I should have to. I think the preparation into a wedding, the vows, the care taken by so many brides (usually) to get the day perfect. It's the biggest day in their lives at that point, it would seem. How ANY man can then mistake what the promise to be loyal might mean, let alone, how important it is, is something I don't even think I could discuss with him. It's plain idiotic. Simple as that. You don't like your marriage to another person, then do something to fix it with that other person.

 

A lot of men only feel guilty when they're caught out. I just couldn't believe the guilt to be real if that's the reason they have it.

 

Anyway, rant over. Nothing could persuade me otherwise.