What's the deal with "If she's interested, she'll contact you?!"

[alphamale]

She's always late. And we're not talking like five minutes late, I mean she's sometimes ridiculously late. Always apologetic, but it's very irritating to deal with that

make a date to pick her up at her place and be an hour late and be all apologetic when you get there. Do this 4 or 5 times in a row without telling her what you are doing.

[RecordProducer]

make a date to pick her up at her place and be an hour late and be all apologetic when you get there. Do this 4 or 5 times in a row without telling her what you are doing.

Two wrongs don't make it right.

 

Be determined about not accepting latency. Tell her that it's disresepctful. If it happens once or twice for good reasons, that's ok, you're a gentleman, you will wait. But since she is doing it consciously, let her know that next time, you will wait for her for five minutes then leave.

[alphamale]

Two wrongs don't make it right.

sorry, but in this particular case it does.

[SmoochieFace]

Oh feh. 'Old-fashioned' = 'antique' and 'obsolete' IMHO. Read LS. There are some perfectly good men who have been burned and who have sort of decided to fold up and quit because of it. Without a little encouragement, they'd continue shunning any opportunities that came their way.

 

Nobody needs to 'chase' anybody; it's just a matter of letting someone know that you're interested in them. There have been a number of LS threads where guys have said they really enjoy when women approach them. IMHO the men who think they 'need' to do all the chasing have trouble with their own masculinity and feel threatened when women don't stay in their assigned roles are the real pussies - ones who can't hack a different sort of world in which people both take responsibility for relationships.

 

Interestingly, women who like to be 'chased' seem to have few qualms about being quite abusive/insulting to the men 'chasing' them. I've often thought they have much less respect for men than women who don't want men to act like pets for them, for truly, it's the man who's made to jump through hoops to win that kind of woman. I don't know why a self-respecting man would accept that sort of treatment.

 

Once again, the voice of reason speaks.

 

I especially can relate to this:

 

"There are some perfectly good men who have been burned and who have sort of decided to fold up and quit because of it."

 

I quit long ago and I have my reasons for doing so. Obviously, it isn't a *popular* stance but who cares. I don't kowtow to what is deemed *popular* anyway. What only matters to me is what works for me and in the twenty years that I have refrained from approaching women it hasn't caused me any headaches therefore it has worked well for me.

[amerikajin]

Be determined about not accepting latency. Tell her that it's disresepctful. If it happens once or twice for good reasons, that's ok, you're a gentleman, you will wait. But since she is doing it consciously, let her know that next time, you will wait for her for five minutes then leave.

 

Okay, let me get a woman's perspective on this then...

 

...she did, in all fairness have a lot of s*** to do the night in question. I knew about this ahead of time. She did tell me she was 'running late', to which I replied in effect that I understood this and that she should just set a new time. So we set the time. And then ten or fifteen minutes go by and no sign of her, no word of her. So I text her and tell her I'm waiting. She gets back to me about five or ten minutes later saying that she's traveling. So I tell her that I'll go walking around a bit - no problem. Not happy, but I'm still able to keep a lid on myself at this point. So then another 20 min. goes by and still no word from her. And then I finally hear from her and she says she's on her way, says she's really sorry and so forth. And I'm like 'Yeah, okay, just do whatever and get here'. So then she gets there and then she's like 'I'm here. Please hurry to meet me.' And so then I show up and it's obvious that I'm not happy.

 

Her: I can tell you're upset".

Me: Well I'll be honest, I'm not too happy about this. Would you be happy?

Her: Well, no.

(we're walking to a bar b/c she had to meet some people there for a party she's planning)

Me: I don't really want to get into it now, we can talk about it later when we have time to sit down.

Her: Well no, what?

Me: I don't want to get into it or make it a big deal.

 

So we go to this place and then later we head out for dinner. Things had kinda calmed down but I didn't want to just ignore what had happened and I wanted her to know that I take this seriously. So I just opened the conversation by saying 'Well, I wasn't happy earlier tonight. I don't want to make a big deal out of this but for future reference I just don't like being made to wait like that. Just try to let me know ahead of time if you're going to be late'.

 

So she responds by saying that she doesn't like being 'lectured'.

 

And I was like 'Well, I'm not lecturing you I'm just telling you how it feels, and I find it disrespectful.'

 

And that touched off an argument, during the course of which I made that comment that she thinks she can get away with stuff like this because she's used to guys kissing her ass, but that's I'm not going to do that. So she gets defensive and says 'So what you're saying is that I get everything because of my looks? Great. Now I know what you really think about me.'

 

We ended up kissing and making up, but I still confess to being bothered by this. As I've told her, I have never dated someone who consistently had problems showing up for dates. She responded by saying she's never dated someone who was so uptight about the time.

 

Long story short, I don't think this is going to be the last time we clash over this. The question is, do I pick my battles or do I somehow insist that she show up on time and risk screwing up what is an otherwise good relationship (honestly, it is except for this one thing).

[alphamale]

And I was like 'Well, I'm not lecturing you I'm just telling you how it feels, and I find it disrespectful.'

actions speak 100 times louder than words. you come off as a sissy saying the above. just do the same to her as she does to you and let her know what it feels like...

[blue16]

And that touched off an argument, during the course of which I made that comment that she thinks she can get away with stuff like this because she's used to guys kissing her ass, but that's I'm not going to do that. So she gets defensive and says 'So what you're saying is that I get everything because of my looks? Great. Now I know what you really think about me.

 

That's one of my big pet peeves is when people put words in your mouth and change what you say so it sounds worse. You say she's used to guys kissing her ass, and she replies "so you say I get everything cuz of my looks huh?" which is not what you said at all. Maybe the reason why guys kiss her ass IS because of her looks, but that's not what you said at all and she twisted your words around to make you look bad - I hate when people do that.

 

Anyways, carry on...

[MadDog]

actions speak 100 times louder than words. you come off as a sissy saying the above. just do the same to her as she does to you and let her know what it feels like...

 

That sounds a little immature. The old "Now you know how it feels" routine? I still subscribe to the "If you don't like them, dump them" theory. If something is significant enough for you to have to worry about it that much, just find someone else who won't make you worry.

[CaliGuy]

Be determined about not accepting latency. Tell her that it's disresepctful. If it happens once or twice for good reasons, that's ok, you're a gentleman, you will wait. But since she is doing it consciously, let her know that next time, you will wait for her for five minutes then leave.

 

Okay, let me get a woman's perspective on this then...

 

...she did, in all fairness have a lot of s*** to do the night in question. I knew about this ahead of time. She did tell me she was 'running late', to which I replied in effect that I understood this and that she should just set a new time. So we set the time. And then ten or fifteen minutes go by and no sign of her, no word of her. So I text her and tell her I'm waiting. She gets back to me about five or ten minutes later saying that she's traveling. So I tell her that I'll go walking around a bit - no problem. Not happy, but I'm still able to keep a lid on myself at this point. So then another 20 min. goes by and still no word from her. And then I finally hear from her and she says she's on her way, says she's really sorry and so forth. And I'm like 'Yeah, okay, just do whatever and get here'. So then she gets there and then she's like 'I'm here. Please hurry to meet me.' And so then I show up and it's obvious that I'm not happy.

 

Her: I can tell you're upset".

Me: Well I'll be honest, I'm not too happy about this. Would you be happy?

Her: Well, no.

(we're walking to a bar b/c she had to meet some people there for a party she's planning)

Me: I don't really want to get into it now, we can talk about it later when we have time to sit down.

Her: Well no, what?

Me: I don't want to get into it or make it a big deal.

 

So we go to this place and then later we head out for dinner. Things had kinda calmed down but I didn't want to just ignore what had happened and I wanted her to know that I take this seriously. So I just opened the conversation by saying 'Well, I wasn't happy earlier tonight. I don't want to make a big deal out of this but for future reference I just don't like being made to wait like that. Just try to let me know ahead of time if you're going to be late'.

 

So she responds by saying that she doesn't like being 'lectured'.

 

And I was like 'Well, I'm not lecturing you I'm just telling you how it feels, and I find it disrespectful.'

 

And that touched off an argument, during the course of which I made that comment that she thinks she can get away with stuff like this because she's used to guys kissing her ass, but that's I'm not going to do that. So she gets defensive and says 'So what you're saying is that I get everything because of my looks? Great. Now I know what you really think about me.'

 

We ended up kissing and making up, but I still confess to being bothered by this. As I've told her, I have never dated someone who consistently had problems showing up for dates. She responded by saying she's never dated someone who was so uptight about the time.

 

Long story short, I don't think this is going to be the last time we clash over this. The question is, do I pick my battles or do I somehow insist that she show up on time and risk screwing up what is an otherwise good relationship (honestly, it is except for this one thing).

 

I'm reading a book on boundaries right now. There's a page that specifically addresses this issue. What they say to do is this:

 

The first time she is late, express your displeasure by responding, not reacting to it. Tell her if she is late again you will go without her.

 

The next time she is late, go without her. She'll be pissed of that you can be sure. You are not attacking or lecturing her. You are just letting her make the choice of being on time or facing the consequences. You're not being vindictive in this situation and you are clearly letting her make a choice.

 

The reason they say to do this is because of simple boundaries. Beautiful women will tend to pull this on men to see if they have balls. If you fail this simple test she will see you as a wuss.

 

If she breaks up with you because of it then you know she has deeper issues and expects men to bend over backwards for them and accept her bad behavior.

 

It's a win/win if you follow it or a lose/lose depending on how you look at it.

 

IMHO you should try this and see what happens.

[MadDog]

I'm reading a book on boundaries right now. There's a page that specifically addresses this issue. What they say to do is this:

 

The first time she is late, express your displeasure by responding, not reacting to it. Tell her if she is late again you will go without her.

 

The next time she is late, go without her. She'll be pissed of that you can be sure. You are not attacking or lecturing her. You are just letting her make the choice of being on time or facing the consequences. You're not being vindictive in this situation and you are clearly letting her make a choice.

 

This seems pretty ridiculous too. It's not like dating is like raising a kid (e.g. "If you stay out too late again, I'm going to take away the car for a week.") Like I said, if someone being on time is that big of an issue for you, go out with someone who's punctual. Don't date someone who's always late and try to manipulate them into being on time.

 

I really can't imagine telling a girl, "If you're late again, I'm going without you." Being a man is one thing. Being an ass is another.

[CaliGuy]

This seems pretty ridiculous too. It's not like dating is like raising a kid (e.g. "If you stay out too late again, I'm going to take away the car for a week.")

 

He would simply be giving her a choice while showing her he isn't a wuss.

 

Like I said, if someone being on time is that big of an issue for you, go out with someone who's punctual. Don't date someone who's always late and try to manipulate them into being on time.

 

It's not manipulation at all. It's setting a healthy boundary and letting her chose to respect it or not. He's not punishing her because he has laid out the boundary. She's the on making the choice to be late. He's being on time.

 

I really can't imagine telling a girl, "If you're late again, I'm going without you." Being a man is one thing. Being an ass is another.

 

So you'd rather be a wuss and let her walk all over you?

 

Men who manage to date and stay with beautiful women do so because they do not take being mistreated well at all. This is a test, believe it or not. And if he doesn't stand up to her behavior then she'll know she can walk all over him.

 

PS: Being constantly late is rude and being an ass in an of itself.

[MadDog]

He would simply be giving her a choice while showing her he isn't a wuss.

 

It's not manipulation at all. It's setting a healthy boundary and letting her chose to respect it or not. He's not punishing her because he has laid out the boundary.

 

It's manipulation. Anytime you're doing something (e.g. punishing them for an action) to try to influence someone else's behavior, you're manipulating them. Saying you'll leave without her is a punishment. Check out the difference between positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, and punishment. It's basic psych.

 

So you'd rather be a wuss and let her walk all over you?

 

Men who manage to date and stay with beautiful women do so because they do not take being mistreated well at all. This is a test, believe it or not. And if he doesn't stand up to her behavior then she'll know she can walk all over him.

 

PS: Being constantly late is rude and being an ass in an of itself.

 

How would I be a wuss by simply dumping her and finding another chick? Sitting there and taking it even though I don't like it would be being a wuss.

 

I think I'm at the next level where I don't have to play games or pass any tests a beautiful woman is likely to give me. I have the option of getting with a beautiful woman that won't test me that way. I don't mind nexting a bunch of women because I know there are always more I can get with.

[blue16]

It's manipulation. Anytime you're doing something (e.g. punishing them for an action) to try to influence someone else's behavior, you're manipulating them. Saying you'll leave without her is a punishment. Check out the difference between positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, and punishment. It's basic psych.

 

How would I be a wuss by simply dumping her and finding another chick? Sitting there and taking it even though I don't like it would be being a wuss.

 

I think I'm at the next level where I don't have to play games or pass any tests a beautiful woman is likely to give me. I have the option of getting with a beautiful woman that won't test me that way. I don't mind nexting a bunch of women because I know there are always more I can get with.

 

Well if he's like "If you don't show up on time I'm gonna leave without you." then yes that sounds like manipulation. But I don't see anything wrong with him addressing the issue (he did already) and then the next time she is that late, just head out without her. He's not manipulating her, he's just going on about his business. If the girl is never on time then it's not his problem, maybe if she realizes that he's not a pushover she'll show up at the scheduled time.

 

And of course finding a new girl does not make you a wuss, but at the same time it's a little silly IMO to just throw away relationships just because you find a fault in your partner. Nobodies perfect. They've been going out three months so I think it would be foolish to just breakup at the drop of a hat without atleast giving her a chance to shape up. I think CaliGuy's plan is reasonable, and if she still continues to be late then dumping her would be the right thing to do.

[amerikajin]

Being a man is one thing. Being an ass is another.

 

Yeah, that's kinda how I felt after the two times I got in her grill about it. I felt like an ass, even though I felt totally justified in expressing my displeasure.

 

I think that in any relationship there are going to be things you don't like about the other person, or things that irritate you. I have to say that everything else is pretty damn good for the most part. I would not say that we are in serious relationship territory just yet, but we might be soon enough.

 

I guess what ticked me off initially was that I was not quite sure whether she was just late because she has absolutely no respect for me, or whether this was just a part of her personality. I tend to believe it's the latter, so I don't think she's really testing me or anything. She's just one of these people who takes on too much work and overcommits to people. She's totally flaked out on other people to be with me, so I know that this is her personality as a whole, not just where I'm concerned.

 

Ultimately, the more I think about it, this might be one area where if I'm interested in continuing the relationship, I will begrudgingly have to compromise. I don't mind that so much, as long as she can move closer to the center herself.

[blue16]

Ultimately, the more I think about it, this might be one area where if I'm interested in continuing the relationship, I will begrudgingly have to compromise.

 

Is she really THAT hot?

[CaliGuy]

Ultimately, the more I think about it, this might be one area where if I'm interested in continuing the relationship, I will begrudgingly have to compromise. I don't mind that so much, as long as she can move closer to the center herself.

 

If you can accept that part of her personality then just don't get angry with her or confront her about it if she is constantly late.

 

However I would suggest keeping your radar on. It could be a red flag in regards to things about her as well.

 

I am not saying scrutinize her, just be alert if you start to receive some red flags and have healthy boundaries.

[RecordProducer]

Amerikajin, i think she's just very disorganized; this is not about her being disrespectful toward you. Next time ask her when she estimates to be ready then say "OK, you say 7 pm... let's meet up at 8,30 pm because you have no orientation in time whatsoever!"

 

I can relate to this cuz I am always late, but I am learning to be more on time as both my husbands are always IN time. Hubby hates to wait and has given me crap because of it, but it doesn't hurt me cuz I know he's right and he's just so cute when he's upset cuz of some stupid thing! (he doesn't yell or swear or call names ever).

[CaliGuy]

Amerikajin, i think she's just very disorganized; this is not about her being disrespectful toward you. Next time ask her when she estimates to be ready then say "OK, you say 7 pm... let's meet up at 8,30 pm because you have no orientation in time whatsoever!"

 

Or tell her 7pm when you need to leave by 8:30pm

[RecordProducer]

Or tell her 7pm when you need to leave by 8:30pm

Hahah! That's a good one!

[amerikajin]

I've only popped my lid about once - the first time it happened. When I called to ask if she was coming, it was obvious that I had just awakened her. My immediate reaction was 'She stood me up - great!'. I immediately called her back and told her that I regretted my meltdown, that it was a knee-jerk reaction to something that on the surface I found incredibly offensive. She wasn't happy but we both more or less agreed that it was a misunderstanding and the relationship has continued since.

 

This past time, I didn't yell or carry on like that. In fact, I was trying hard to avoid an argument, and I didn't think we were going to argue until she said that I was lecturing her.

 

I think I'll just have to pick my fights with this one thing. I definitely agree that it could be a red flag, but I haven't identified anything else that would lead me to believe that she's intentionally disregarding me. She told me a while back that she isn't the kind of person who goes out of her way to show someone she likes them. And while at first I was a bit skeptical, the more I get to know her, the more I realize that this is probably true about her as well.

[RecordProducer]

This past time, I didn't yell or carry on like that. In fact, I was trying hard to avoid an argument

Have you yelled at her before? How long have you guys been together?

[332209]

if she is hot,she will phone you. you can see body laungauge

[phyrespryte]

Oh feh. 'Old-fashioned' = 'antique' and 'obsolete' IMHO. Read LS. There are some perfectly good men who have been burned and who have sort of decided to fold up and quit because of it. Without a little encouragement, they'd continue shunning any opportunities that came their way.

 

Nobody needs to 'chase' anybody; it's just a matter of letting someone know that you're interested in them. There have been a number of LS threads where guys have said they really enjoy when women approach them. IMHO the men who think they 'need' to do all the chasing have trouble with their own masculinity and feel threatened when women don't stay in their assigned roles are the real pussies - ones who can't hack a different sort of world in which people both take responsibility for relationships.

 

Interestingly, women who like to be 'chased' seem to have few qualms about being quite abusive/insulting to the men 'chasing' them. I've often thought they have much less respect for men than women who don't want men to act like pets for them, for truly, it's the man who's made to jump through hoops to win that kind of woman. I don't know why a self-respecting man would accept that sort of treatment.

 

Amen!

 

All this nonsense about who's chasing who and gender roles is frustrating. Who cares who asks who out? Why miss out on something possibly good because the game says you need to do this and that? Do what you want. If you feel like you're putting out too much effort then move on.

[SmoochieFace]

Amen!

 

All this nonsense about who's chasing who and gender roles is frustrating. Who cares who asks who out? Why miss out on something possibly good because the game says you need to do this and that? Do what you want. If you feel like you're putting out too much effort then move on.

 

Another voice of reason.

 

Games are dumb. People should just be who they are and allow things to happen naturally.

[amerikajin]

Have you yelled at her before? How long have you guys been together?

 

No, I didn't yell, but I was blunt and told her I didn't like being stood up (used the f' word once, actually).

 

I totally understand who she is now. She's just bad with timing - she's horrible with it actually. But that's just who she is. She's that way with everybody. She wasn't blowing me off. I actually feel bad I ever got upset about it because she's actually a very sweet woman. I feel lucky to have her. I haven't felt this way in a long time.