Dating a man without female friends.

[grateful]

Nice.

 

Now let's drift back for a sec - since you were kind enough to *point me out* in an earlier post - from what basis do you derive your belief that guys who do not have female friends (apart from their GFs) do not respect women? I am most interested in hearing how you came to that conclusion.

 

No that was me, and you can see in the post above I acknowledged overstating my case.

[SmoochieFace]

No that was me, and you can see in the post above I acknowledged overstating my case.

 

I was referring to this... the last line of the post.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=762755&postcount=19

[grateful]

I was referring to this... the last line of the post.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=762755&postcount=19

 

 

Smoochie, I read that as disagreeing with what I said. She is using you as an example of a man who doesn't have female friends, but who clearly has a lot of respect for women (i.e. your girlfriend).

[SmoochieFace]

Smoochie, I read that as disagreeing with what I said. She is using you as an example of a man who doesn't have female friends, but who clearly has a lot of respect for women (i.e. your girlfriend).

 

All right, I see. Thanks for clarifying it. My apologies to you and BRIGHTSKIES.

[brightskies]

i do have my share of female friends. They are only friends to me. I do not look at them or think about them in a sexual way. Just to make things easier for my GF, I have made it a habit to introduce her to all of them. IMHO, I think that its a red flag if your S.O. does not introduce you to their opposite sex friends.

 

Really, you weren't ever, not once attracted to any of your female friends, not even many moons ago, or when you were, say, single and/or drunk? Impressive.

 

So what do you think about the Harry Met Sally idea, where Harry says something like, "Men and women can't really be friends because the sex part gets in the way"?

 

Personally, I think it's not impossible. But it can be difficult. Especially if you're even remotely sexually attracted to each other.

 

That's cool that you're so considerate of your gf. Has she ever expressed any concerns? And if she did, what made her worry? Although based on your posts, you don't seem like the kind of guy that would make your gf worry, even inadvertently. I agree, it's best if neither party hides friends of the opposite sex.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I'm really curious:

 

Women, is your man like this?

 

Yes. We both are.

 

But that's not to say we don't have mutual friends and acquaintances that we share our time with together. But none of this spending one-on-one time with members of the opposite sex. Then again, we don't have any brotherly/sisterly type relationships with other people that we spent most of our lives growing up with.

 

We both enjoyed these types of friendships when we were single, but since most of these acquaintances were relatively new to our lives, and were more like casual acquaintances rather than life-long bonding experiences, it wasn't so difficult to make the transition from being single to being in a committed relationship once that time came. We did, however, discuss our mutual concerns (and past experiences) regarding this issue before agreeing to exclusivity. And decided, together, that there were certain aspects of our single lives that we were willing to compromise in order to make this relationship more comfortable for both of us. Including partying at clubs, bars and meat-markets on the weekends separate and apart from each other.

 

Coincidently, most of the friends we share more in common with now are those who are also in a relationships like us. We discuss it often, and neither one of us misses or regrets any part of that other life.

 

Does it make things easier (e.g.: less worry, easier to trust, etc.) in your relationship?

 

I certainly don't regret not having to deal with this issue at present. Been there! So yes, I suppose in that sense things are a bit easier for us. Then again, we're fortunate not to be plagued by any of the many other problems we both dealt with in relationships past. As far as worry and "trust" … we feel confident and secure with each other because of our actions. But we're always careful to remain vigilant of how we behave towards each other. As we've learned (the hard way) you can never take life (or people) for granted. Cause when you least expect it, life will throw a curve-ball at you.

[blind_otter]

I think it's nearly impossible. My thing is -- the relationship goes south, who does the dude always go crying to? His female friends. who console him with camel toes and jiggly, unrestrained boobs as typical hilariously mentioned in the other thread.

 

Crap I just bit my nails and my whole mouth tastes like tiger balm now. Stupid sore neck.

[brightskies]

I was referring to this... the last line of the post.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=762755&postcount=19

 

Smooch,

Oh, no, don't be offended. Like Grateful said, what I meant was, even a guy who doesn't have friends outside of his gf/so can definitely have respect and like women as people. But that's all cleared up now.

[grateful]

What if he shares no interests with women? I mean, my BF just doesn't work with any women (carpenter), or really do any activities that most women do.

 

It's not always about a respect thing.

 

As a4a reminded me, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, babe.

 

 

We were posting at the same time, but let me take this opportunity to again recant the "r" word.

 

But to your point about men who don't do activities that women do... I dunno my SO is a former Marine and doesn't go to knitting circles or work in a day care. Women are everywhere including in his male dominated industry.

[SmoochieFace]

Smooch,

Oh, no, don't be offended. Like Grateful said, what I meant was, even a guy who doesn't have friends outside of his gf/so can definitely have respect and like women as people. But that's all cleared up now.

 

Point taken.

[blind_otter]

We were posting at the same time, but let me take this opportunity to again recant the "r" word.

 

But to your point about men who don't do activities that women do... I dunno my SO is a former Marine and doesn't go to knitting circles or work in a day care. Women are everywhere including in his male dominated industry.

 

Ok. This is your situation. I've never seen a female on a work crew that my BF was in. Sorry. I don't really know what "male dominated industry" you're talking about. Not the military, or engineering, or law enforcement. Those all seem much more equal in gender ratios than carpentry.

 

I'm Just Saying.

[brightskies]

I think it's nearly impossible. My thing is -- the relationship goes south, who does the dude always go crying to? His female friends. who console him with camel toes and jiggly, unrestrained boobs as typical hilariously mentioned in the other thread.

 

Crap I just bit my nails and my whole mouth tastes like tiger balm now. Stupid sore neck.

 

You mean about men and women being "just platonic friends"? Well, it's always tough when the opposite sex friends are hot and/or has a cool personality/brains. Although, maybe I'm a little more leery because I had a conflicted relationship with my mom but was closer to my dad growing up. Maybe it's a trust thing from childhood: having a hard time trusting mom = having a hard time trusting other women around my bf. Calling Freud ... Plus, I've had some bad run-ins with opposite sex friends.

 

Tiger balm in the office? Are you a Stinky Otter now?

[blind_otter]

You mean about men and women being "just platonic friends"? Well, it's always tough when the opposite sex friends are hot and/or has a cool personality/brains. Although, maybe I'm a little more leery because I had a conflicted relationship with my mom but was closer to my dad growing up. Calling Freud ... Plus, I've had some bad run-ins with opposite sex friends.

 

Me too. I don't trust women as a rule. They always f*** me over. I used to have scads of male friends but over time every single one has either tried to have sex with me passively or aggressively. I lost faith.

 

Huge trust issues.

[blind_otter]

Tiger balm in the office? Are you a Stinky Otter now?

 

My neck hurts and I'm trying not to take ibuprofen. plus taxes are due and the smell is "irritable accountant repellant".

[grateful]

Ok. This is your situation. I've never seen a female on a work crew that my BF was in. Sorry. I don't really know what "male dominated industry" you're talking about. Not the military, or engineering, or law enforcement. Those all seem much more equal in gender ratios than carpentry.

 

I'm Just Saying.

 

 

I'm Just Saying that women are everywhere - about half the population.

 

You said in the thread that inspired this thread that you prefer men who don't have female friends, right?

 

I prefer men who have female friends. For some reason, I feel like when they are acknowledging a woman for who she is, rather than only as a potential hook up, they are respecting woman-ness in general and therefore me more in particular. I have been corrected that men who don't have women friends are capable also of respecting women. But for me, valuing women as people - as evidenced by having platonic female friends - is an important characteristic.

[blind_otter]

I'm Just Saying that women are everywhere - about half the population.

 

You said in the thread that inspired this thread that you prefer men who don't have female friends, right?

 

I prefer men who have female friends. For some reason, I feel like when they are acknowledging a woman for who she is, rather than only as a potential hook up, they are respecting woman-ness in general and therefore me more in particular. I have been corrected that men who don't have women friends are capable also of respecting women. But for me, valuing women as people - as evidenced by having platonic female friends - is an important characteristic.

 

Ok, so just for my edifiction -- if a woman has no male friends, does that mean she doesn't value men as people?

 

It's not like I started my life with this attitude. I've developed it over the years.

[brightskies]

Yes. We both are.

 

But that's not to say we don't have mutual friends and acquaintances that we share our time with together. But none of this spending one-on-one time with members of the opposite sex. Then again, we don't have any brotherly/sisterly type relationships with other people that we spent most of our lives growing up with.

 

Yep. Spending time with friends of the opposite sex TOGETHER with your bf/gf seems very helpful to keeping things stress-free.

 

 

We did, however, discuss our mutual concerns (and past experiences) regarding this issue before agreeing to exclusivity. And decided, together, that there were certain aspects of our single lives that we were willing to compromise in order to make this relationship more comfortable for both of us. Including partying at clubs, bars and meat-markets on the weekends separate and apart from each other.

 

Who brought up the conversation? You or him? Was it hard to discuss? I don't know how to bring up these "talks" without making the bf nervous. He says that I start to get this serious voice and it makes him a bit uncomfortable. Of course, I usually end up initiating these awkward "talks" cause I'm the one who tends to worry. I wish I could be more like a guy (at least, the guys I've known) and just turn off the anxiety faucet.

 

 

Coincidently, most of the friends we share more in common with now are those who are also in a relationships like us. We discuss it often, and neither one of us misses or regrets any part of that other life.

 

So you're in a different socializing category of sorts, where couples are the norm. Interesting. Are you in your 20s, 30s, other? It seems that one's life-stage has a big effect on this aspect.

 

 

I certainly don't regret not having to deal with this issue at present. Been there! So yes, I suppose in that sense things are a bit easier for us. Then again, we're fortunate not to be plagued by any of the many other problems we both dealt with in relationships past. As far as worry and "trust" … we feel confident and secure with each other because of our actions. But we're always careful to remain vigilant of how we behave towards each other. As we've learned (the hard way) you can never take life (or people) for granted. Cause when you least expect it, life will throw a curve-ball at you.

 

Absolutely. Well said! I'm also trying to be more careful with my current relationship. My last one went to hell because we were both stupid and immature and not careful with each other's feelings. It sounds like you're both mature and considerate of each other. Awesome.

 

So, your trust of each other isn't blind, rather, it's rooted in: 1) good communication, 2) constant feedback and adjustment, 3) plain old-respect and consideration. (Love's a given, of course).

[brightskies]

Me too. I don't trust women as a rule. They always f*** me over. I used to have scads of male friends but over time every single one has either tried to have sex with me passively or aggressively. I lost faith.

 

Huge trust issues.

 

 

Do you mean this:

I had a female friend who I had been best friends with for over 10 years. We even lived together my sophomore year of college. people said we were like peas in a pod.

 

She got on great with my BF, and I with hers.

 

And then I went on vacation with my family for a week and she f***ed my boyfriend and he moved into the house I lived in with her, down the hall from me, and I spent the last 3 months of my lease listening to them f***.

 

Gaaaah. How the hell did you live through that? I would've killed them both. Oddly enough, one of my "bestest" friends since elementary school tried to hook up with my bf at the time. Er. She insisted it was his fault and vice-versa. Uh-huh. Bleah.

 

Who are you friends with now, other than your bf? I grew up with mostly female friends, but I think that was more of a default since I went to an all-girls school. Once I hit college things changed and I started having friends from both sexes. Then after that I somehow feel into having gay friends. Maybe I feel safer around them.

[brightskies]

I prefer men who have female friends. For some reason, I feel like when they are acknowledging a woman for who she is, rather than only as a potential hook up, they are respecting woman-ness in general and therefore me more in particular. I have been corrected that men who don't have women friends are capable also of respecting women. But for me, valuing women as people - as evidenced by having platonic female friends - is an important characteristic.

 

I see where you're coming from. And I respect your viewpoint. It's just that, for some people like me, who have these niggling trust issues, it's a bit more of a struggle. Believe me, I don't enjoy worrying about this. I WISH I could just relax and enjoy my bf's female friends as easily as you do. Then we could hang out and be friends, too. But it's a bit hard. So far, I've been trying to meet them and luckily, haven't had reason for concern. So far. There're some small fiddly bits but we're trying to work on them.

 

Because of past experience, I know that control doesn't work; and I don't want to tell my bf who to be friends with. Intellectually speaking I understand this. But emotionally it's a bit stickier. I'm working on trying to accept things and relax. Although if things don't work out with him (and I hope they do!), I might be looking for the "guy without female friends" next time. Just cause for someone like me, it might be easier.

 

How close is your bf to his female friends? Does he ever see them one-on-one without you? Do you trust him completely or have you ever had doubts? How did you deal with them if you did?

 

If you don't live together, or say, if you're apart for some reason, would you be ok if he had one of his female friends stay over at his place, just the two of them? Or would you be ok if he stayed over with her, just the two of them? I'm asking because these are a couple things I'm trying to deal with now. I don't want to be overbearing with him, but I'm also uneasy about it. My brain is trying to say, "relax," but my gut, which is probably in defensive mode because of my last relationship, is saying, "uh-oh."

[brightskies]

I'm hoping along with you that this time you won't have a problem with one of his female friends.

 

Thanks, I've got all toes and fingers crossed. And I'm still a work in progress ...

[EnigmaXOXO]

Who brought up the conversation?

 

I think it was me initially. We were dating casually for a few months, and I was in the middle of transferring to another state. I had to make a choice: "Continue with the move … or stay behind and see where this relationship would take us." On the final night when I had to make a decision, we were both in tears. We discussed our mutual concerns and the expectations we would both have if we were to stay together and try to make this thing work.

 

There was no pressure regarding timelines or what the other person was required to do. Just what we were and were not comfortable with in regards to a committed relationship. It took months after I made the final decision to put my plans on hold to give this new relationship a chance. Slowly, and gradually, as we spent more and more time together, those things we enjoyed about our single life became less and less fulfilling and 'important' than what we had together. It was a natural progression rather than a forced one. But we both managed to maintain our own personal boundaries and convictions in the process.

 

It worked only because we were so much alike in our basic core values.

 

Was it hard to discuss?

 

In the first few weeks of knowing each other, it was a little awkward at first to open ourselves up completely. But after a few months … No. It's never difficult to talk with each other about things. That's why we're best friends. And I'm blessed with a man who is often the first to initiate conversation about our relationship and how he feels about things. As a matter of fact, he's a bigger "talker" than I am.

 

Are you in your 20s, 30s, other?

 

I wish! If I could only go back and do those years all over again knowing what I know now.

 

I'm … forty-two. But I hear you're allowed to count backwards after forty (???)

 

So, your trust of each other isn't blind, rather, it's rooted in: 1) good communication, 2) constant feedback and adjustment, 3) plain old-respect and consideration. (Love's a given, of course).

 

I'm not nearly as naïve as I use to be. "Trust" (for me) is only based on circumstance. And circumstances can change. So I don't believe in the notion of unconditional trust … but yes, I am wholly confident in my partner's character given that his actions have always backed up his words for as long as I have known him so far. And I absolutely respect him because of the wonderful human being that he is.

 

How could you not love and appreciate someone like that?

 

I'm absolutely convinced his isn't the last of his kind. There are a lot of wonderful men out there just like him. Women too. But we must all learn eventually how to filter and sort. And sadly for some of us (like me), that only comes with experience.

[brightskies]

There was no pressure regarding timelines or what the other person was required to do. Just what we were and were not comfortable with in regards to a committed relationship. It took months after I made the final decision to put my plans on hold to give this new relationship a chance. Slowly, and gradually, as we spent more and more time together, those things we enjoyed about our single life became less and less fulfilling and 'important' than what we had together. It was a natural progression rather than a forced one. But we both managed to maintain our own personal boundaries and convictions in the process.

 

It worked only because we were so much alike in our basic core values.

 

Being patient with how things develop is tough when you're rearin' to put everything in place so there aren't any questions to worry about. But like you, I've found that not pushing someone to commit yields better results. I used to think that I could avoid problems by trying to eliminate doubts and forcing all the answers straightaway. But it's impossible to control everything. And way too stressful.

 

 

I'm … forty-two. But I hear you're allowed to count backwards after forty (???)

 

:laugh: I'll keep that in mind!

 

 

I'm not nearly as naïve as I use to be. "Trust" (for me) is only based on circumstance. And circumstances can change. So I don't believe in the notion of unconditional trust … but yes, I am wholly confident in my partner's character given that his actions have always backed up his words for as long as I have known him so far. And I absolutely respect him because of the wonderful human being that he is.

 

How could you not love and appreciate someone like that?

 

I'm absolutely convinced his isn't the last of his kind. There are a lot of wonderful men out there just like him. Women too. But we must all learn eventually how to filter and sort. And sadly for some of us (like me), that only comes with experience.

 

Your story's really inspiring. And you sound so calm and wise and measured. In contrast, I feel like I'm constantly flailing my arms wildly and running around like a headless chicken. Heck, I even looked like that up to about a year ago.

 

I'm presently trying to work with some trust issues, especially the female friends thing. My bf is patient with me. For a long time I'd become so defensive that I'd forgotten HOW to trust. I couldn't even grasp the idea. And for someone like that, "blind" trust just doesn't work -- it seems so empty. I prefer your circumstantial, "reasoned" trust. Trust based on real behavior vs. just words/optimism. The latter makes so much more sense to me. I'd like to get to the point where I can completely trust him. Completely, but not stupidly.

 

Unconditional trust is like unconditional love, I think -- not very realistic nor practicable. But once upon a time, I was more idealistic. Oddly, I feel a sense of loss for that person who believed in those things.

[Pyro]

Really, you weren't ever, not once attracted to any of your female friends, not even many moons ago, or when you were, say, single and/or drunk? Impressive.

 

So what do you think about the Harry Met Sally idea, where Harry says something like, "Men and women can't really be friends because the sex part gets in the way"?

 

Personally, I think it's not impossible. But it can be difficult. Especially if you're even remotely sexually attracted to each other.

 

That's cool that you're so considerate of your gf. Has she ever expressed any concerns? And if she did, what made her worry? Although based on your posts, you don't seem like the kind of guy that would make your gf worry, even inadvertently. I agree, it's best if neither party hides friends of the opposite sex.

 

I would never be just friends with anyone that I am attracted to. It would be too hard and it would be unnecessary stress. Its cool to have female friends. They give you a perspective from the female point of view. The reason why the GF does not show any concern is because I waste no time in introducing her to all of them. She has even told me that trust is not an issue in our relationship. I guess that there is a first for everything. I appreciate the compliments.

[grateful]

Ok, so just for my edifiction -- if a woman has no male friends, does that mean she doesn't value men as people?

 

It's not like I started my life with this attitude. I've developed it over the years.

 

Hmmmm... to answer your question requires a bit of a hypothetical since I'm [just] saying that as a woman one of the things that I value in a male partner is his ability to have female friends because I take it as evidence that he values women for other things besides being potential hook-ups. I should clarify that this is in part due to my being a feminist and expecting my male partners to share my point of view regarding the fact that women have been receiving the short end of the stick and have been, in general, devalued for their talents, skills, and intelligence (y'know making less per hour for men for the same work) and over-valued for their looks and appearance (y'know objectified).

 

If I were a man looking for a female partner I doubt that I would have the same position regarding opposite-sex friends because the power differential would be in my favor, therefore it is less likely that issues of gender equality would come into my head.

 

Me too. I don't trust women as a rule. They always f*** me over. I used to have scads of male friends but over time every single one has either tried to have sex with me passively or aggressively. I lost faith.

 

Huge trust issues.

 

I'm really sorry to hear that, as well as the experience that led to your trust issues - - ouch! I'm wishing women into your life who will let you learn to trust women again (maybe some of the ones on this site - seems like there a lot of really strong, together, honorable women around here).

[blind_otter]

I'm really sorry to hear that, as well as the experience that led to your trust issues - - ouch! I'm wishing women into your life who will let you learn to trust women again (maybe some of the ones on this site - seems like there a lot of really strong, together, honorable women around here).

 

I doubt I ever will get over it. My trust issues began with my certifiably insane mother, and pretty much went downhill from there. I keep women at arm's length and I think they are, as a rule, pretty delusional.