Destructive Relationship Question

[beachrosie]

If the relationship was terrible since day one, and the MW throws him out a few times a month, why would she want him back, when she hates him most of the time?

 

I do not understand this and wonder if someone could shed some light as to why remain married if it is horrible and there are countless witnesses (as well as children) to this house of horrors?

[ventinginblue]

If the relationship was terrible since day one, and the MW throws him out a few times a month, why would she want him back, when she hates him most of the time?

 

I do not understand this and wonder if someone could shed some light as to why remain married if it is horrible and there are countless witnesses (as well as children) to this house of horrors?

 

 

Maybe they just need some time apart to cool down? Sometimes it's hard to solve one issue if other issues keep coming up. Even though they fight all of the time, there seems to be love underneath all of that, otherwise they wouldn't keep getting back together. I think they just can't seem to find a healthy way to express they're anger. Maybe they should try going to a counselor. As long as they're willing to give it their all, and really want to be together, I'm sure it could work out.

[tikigods]

Why do people stay with someone when they know they are married? Its all about secruity and being scared of being alone on both accounts I think.

[beachrosie]

Perhaps some people are together for fear of being alone, I'm happy I do not fall into that catagory.

 

How do they both work on it, like a commitment to conseling, if he is cheating on her with another woman that he tells everyone he is very in love with?

[silentjuliet]

Well, this is actually something I can answer.

 

 

Three years ago my husband had a one night stand with a woman he knew through a friend. I told him not to come home one night after a week straight of fighting and two months of hardly seeing each other due to conflicting work schedules.

 

So, he is drunk at his friend's house and she's there with some friends and voila. He didn't come home for a week and for all I know it wasn't just a one night stand but who is to say he's being truthful.

 

I took him back after a month of seperation. I never forgave him but I took him back and I wanted him back because of what I had invested in him. He was very sorry and torn apart by it ...I felt sorry for him. I felt responsible as well for being so angry and busy all the time.

 

Overall, I took him back over and over in future fights. (We rarely get a long and he has a long list of destructive habits) ...I don't know why I hang on. I think it's to do with investment clear and simple. We were best friends before we began to date. Then marry. We are still friends. We aren't romantic or really intimate right now ...(we're on the brink...) but our friendship stays.

 

And with this couple it could be that MW has maybe not a friendship but just a fear of losing what's familiar to her. If she can't have him ...NO one can type of mentality.

 

It's hard to live on your own these days. Especially, for women. Women who are used to it ...it's one thing...but for women who are used to either his income or a duel income ...financially it's almost insane to lose your husband.

 

If I found out he was having an affair again my pride would be more damaged than my heart. And pride is a very POWERFUL thing ...sometimes seems more powerful than romantic love.

 

And I guess I should mention I want to have an affair with someone ...but yet again...I'm still waiting to do this divorce...why? Good question.

[serial muse]

rosie, I can try to answer too. It may very well be that she's afraid of being alone; sounds like they've been together a long time. And I know people have said this over and over, but it bears repeating, since you're asking this question - you believe that it's been this way since day one. That's possible, of course, but I think it's wise to remember that you only have his side of the story for that, and of course he's not only trying to convince you, but also himself. I'm not saying he's lying or not lying to you about that - I don't know. But he's almost certainly embellishing the truth for himself, because it makes it much easier to withdraw when you convince yourself it was all wrong in the first place. So keep in mind that when their relationship started, it's also possible that there were many good things that he's not ever going to tell you about - or remind himself about, either. She, on the other hand, would cling to those for all she's worth. She's invested in them.

 

Which brings me to this point. I think the investment thing is pretty key. Particularly in such an emotionally charged relationship. It's very hard to let go of someone you've invested so much time and emotion in, because that might mean telling yourself it was kind of a waste. That gets at really personal issues like pride, and faith in your own judgment. Very few people are going to want to admit that their judgment may be completely skewed. Far easier to blame other things, or people.

 

But what they're both thinking about their relationship is going to be skewed, naturally - skewed by what they both want to remember it as, and what serves their current needs. It's spin control, and it's totally natural. Your job is to remember that it's happening, though. Generally, the truth of what their relationship was really like is somewhere between, or beyond, the things that they both will choose to recall, or fixate on. You're not ever going to really know just how good, or how bad, it was. Suffice it to say, though, that if he wants out now, and she is behaving so crazily now, he should leave.

 

Oh, and as for the counseling thing - I think you mentioned in another thread that that was to help show her how hopeless it is, right? So there's your answer. But I will say this - I don't know that woman, and she may be the nightmare to end all nightmares, but there's nothing like a spot of lying from your husband to turn you a little nutso. And that's why this plan might backfire - it seems pretty shady, not to mention foolish, to lead her on like that. She'll go in thinking he's really trying, and when she figures out the truth - whoa nelly. He should just tell her the truth now. (But that's not something he's in the habit of doing, for whatever reasons. Another thing to keep in mind.)

[beachrosie]

Well, this is actually something I can answer.

 

 

Three years ago my husband had a one night stand with a woman he knew through a friend. I told him not to come home one night after a week straight of fighting and two months of hardly seeing each other due to conflicting work schedules.

 

So, he is drunk at his friend's house and she's there with some friends and voila. He didn't come home for a week and for all I know it wasn't just a one night stand but who is to say he's being truthful.

 

I took him back after a month of seperation. I never forgave him but I took him back and I wanted him back because of what I had invested in him. He was very sorry and torn apart by it ...I felt sorry for him. I felt responsible as well for being so angry and busy all the time.

 

Overall, I took him back over and over in future fights. (We rarely get a long and he has a long list of destructive habits) ...I don't know why I hang on. I think it's to do with investment clear and simple. We were best friends before we began to date. Then marry. We are still friends. We aren't romantic or really intimate right now ...(we're on the brink...) but our friendship stays.

 

And with this couple it could be that MW has maybe not a friendship but just a fear of losing what's familiar to her. If she can't have him ...NO one can type of mentality.

 

It's hard to live on your own these days. Especially, for women. Women who are used to it ...it's one thing...but for women who are used to either his income or a duel income ...financially it's almost insane to lose your husband.

 

If I found out he was having an affair again my pride would be more damaged than my heart. And pride is a very POWERFUL thing ...sometimes seems more powerful than romantic love.

 

And I guess I should mention I want to have an affair with someone ...but yet again...I'm still waiting to do this divorce...why? Good question.

 

Thank you for such a beautiful post. I totally understand your point, but did think women were getting stronger these days. I know a lot of independent women who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps to become strong and most of all happy.

 

I just wondered why some stay and some go. I do know they got married because she was pregnant and it was a part of his upbringing to do the "right thing". I know this because his mother said the same thing. They did stay together though, and it's been terribly stormy ever since.

[beachrosie]

rosie, I can try to answer too. It may very well be that she's afraid of being alone; sounds like they've been together a long time. And I know people have said this over and over, but it bears repeating, since you're asking this question - you believe that it's been this way since day one. That's possible, of course, but I think it's wise to remember that you only have his side of the story for that, and of course he's not only trying to convince you, but also himself. I'm not saying he's lying or not lying to you about that - I don't know. But he's almost certainly embellishing the truth for himself, because it makes it much easier to withdraw when you convince yourself it was all wrong in the first place. So keep in mind that when their relationship started, it's also possible that there were many good things that he's not ever going to tell you about - or remind himself about, either. She, on the other hand, would cling to those for all she's worth. She's invested in them.

 

Which brings me to this point. I think the investment thing is pretty key. Particularly in such an emotionally charged relationship. It's very hard to let go of someone you've invested so much time and emotion in, because that might mean telling yourself it was kind of a waste. That gets at really personal issues like pride, and faith in your own judgment. Very few people are going to want to admit that their judgment may be completely skewed. Far easier to blame other things, or people.

 

But what they're both thinking about their relationship is going to be skewed, naturally - skewed by what they both want to remember it as, and what serves their current needs. It's spin control, and it's totally natural. Your job is to remember that it's happening, though. Generally, the truth of what their relationship was really like is somewhere between, or beyond, the things that they both will choose to recall, or fixate on. You're not ever going to really know just how good, or how bad, it was. Suffice it to say, though, that if he wants out now, and she is behaving so crazily now, he should leave.

 

Oh, and as for the counseling thing - I think you mentioned in another thread that that was to help show her how hopeless it is, right? So there's your answer. But I will say this - I don't know that woman, and she may be the nightmare to end all nightmares, but there's nothing like a spot of lying from your husband to turn you a little nutso. And that's why this plan might backfire - it seems pretty shady, not to mention foolish, to lead her on like that. She'll go in thinking he's really trying, and when she figures out the truth - whoa nelly. He should just tell her the truth now. (But that's not something he's in the habit of doing, for whatever reasons. Another thing to keep in mind.)

 

I think the idea is to get her to conseling to hear the truth from someone else so she doesn't think it is all him, and most of all, because she is the mother of his children and needs help.

 

Also he told her that even though she knows of "two" times we spent the night together, we are just friends, and she believes him. She actually called me yesterday to sincerely thank me, and he hasn't been home in a week. I don't think she actually believes that, and I didn't call her back. I don't want to hurt another human being either, ever. But he tells me he loves me with all his heart, and I am his soul mate, and he is trying to do what is right. I'm feeling very upset today.

[silentjuliet]

Oh, I agree. My mother and my sister are two examples. I don't mean to say all women are weak. But it is indeed difficult even in this day of age in America to afford to live on your own unless you have a well paying career.

 

And for some women this is the reason they keep hold of men. It was an idea anyways....

[Guest]

If the relationship was terrible since day one, and the MW throws him out a few times a month, why would she want him back, when she hates him most of the time?

 

I do not understand this and wonder if someone could shed some light as to why remain married if it is horrible and there are countless witnesses (as well as children) to this house of horrors?

 

Maybe she is not throwing him out, maybe he is the one who leaves. Why the OW believes ANYTHING a MM says is beyond me. A lier is a lier is a lier.

[StrivingtoSucceed]

part of his upbringing to do the "right thing". I know this because his mother said the same thing

 

One possible meaning here is that he is going to go back and forth for quite awhile before he realizes he has to do what makes HIM happy. Unfortunately, he will feel tremendous guilt if he does leave and it may take a long while for him to understand, and accept, that he did the right thing.

 

You ask how someone can stay in a relationship ... one reason is because you are raised to do the "right thing." It took me TEN YEARS to leave my first husband and even when I finally did leave (for the last time), I got it from all sides in MY family that I was doing the "wrong thing" and that I made my bed, I needed to sleep in it.

 

Financial reasons weren't a part of my reasons for staying ... it was doing the "right thing" and the amount of guilt I felt. Guilt not just for leaving, but b/c of a few A's I had that to this date, he still has no idea happened. When I would consider leaving I would end up having an affair hoping that having that support would be what I would need to leave. But it always seemed to backfire on me ... I would feel such guilt that I would put up with everything thinking I deserved it.

 

What did it take for me to realize I did the right thing? Meeting my current husband.

 

Leaving my ex was the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life (at that point). But after a few years, I realized it was the best thing I had ever done ... for me.

[beachrosie]

One possible meaning here is that he is going to go back and forth for quite awhile before he realizes he has to do what makes HIM happy. Unfortunately, he will feel tremendous guilt if he does leave and it may take a long while for him to understand, and accept, that he did the right thing.

 

You ask how someone can stay in a relationship ... one reason is because you are raised to do the "right thing." It took me TEN YEARS to leave my first husband and even when I finally did leave (for the last time), I got it from all sides in MY family that I was doing the "wrong thing" and that I made my bed, I needed to sleep in it.

 

Financial reasons weren't a part of my reasons for staying ... it was doing the "right thing" and the amount of guilt I felt. Guilt not just for leaving, but b/c of a few A's I had that to this date, he still has no idea happened. When I would consider leaving I would end up having an affair hoping that having that support would be what I would need to leave. But it always seemed to backfire on me ... I would feel such guilt that I would put up with everything thinking I deserved it.

 

What did it take for me to realize I did the right thing? Meeting my current husband.

 

Leaving my ex was the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life (at that point). But after a few years, I realized it was the best thing I had ever done ... for me.

 

Thank you so much for the reply. It really helps me a great deal and says it all. Thank you

[movinon05]

having lived through this exact thing. I was the OW. We had 7 yrs and his wife knew about it. When he would leave, she would call me, harrass me, tell me I won the booby prize, and then harp on him til he came back. I know things are not that good at home because their daughter told my son that she wished they would just get divorced because she couldn't stand it at home anymore. I also know that when their son asked his mother why she keeps taking him back, she told him it was because she did not want to grow old alone (and that information did not come from my MM).

 

In addition, there would be money issues because of having to live in 2 different places and then there's the kids college loans. But they do both make a good living - she even earns more than him.

 

Lastly, I think she refuses to lose. She is very strongminded and runs the show. She made no sense when she would call me and taunt me. She would say he told her he loves HER. Well if that's so, why would he keep pursuing me for 7 years. Personally, (and it took me a long time to realize), if that's love, you can have it. I think she's just sticking it out and has always made it too difficult on him to leave. She involved the children mercilessly. She was ruthless. I even went to the police to get a restraining order.

 

In the end, there are all kinds of reasons. I just finally found out I'm stronger than she is because I decided not to settle for less anymore. But he's her problem now.

[movinon05]

having lived through this exact thing. I was the OW. We had 7 yrs and his wife knew about it. When he would leave, she would call me, harrass me, tell me I won the booby prize, and then harp on him til he came back. I know things are not that good at home because their daughter told my son that she wished they would just get divorced because she couldn't stand it at home anymore. I also know that when their son asked his mother why she keeps taking him back, she told him it was because she did not want to grow old alone (and that information did not come from my MM).

 

In addition, there would be money issues because of having to live in 2 different places and then there's the kids college loans. But they do both make a good living - she even earns more than him.

 

Lastly, I think she refuses to lose. She is very strongminded and runs the show. She made no sense when she would call me and taunt me. She would say he told her he loves HER. Well if that's so, why would he keep pursuing me for 7 years. Personally, (and it took me a long time to realize), if that's love, you can have it. I think she's just sticking it out and has always made it too difficult on him to leave. She involved the children mercilessly. She was ruthless. I even went to the police to get a restraining order.

 

In the end, there are all kinds of reasons. I just finally found out I'm stronger than she is because I decided not to settle for less anymore. But he's her problem now.

[beachrosie]

having lived through this exact thing. I was the OW. We had 7 yrs and his wife knew about it. When he would leave, she would call me, harrass me, tell me I won the booby prize, and then harp on him til he came back. I know things are not that good at home because their daughter told my son that she wished they would just get divorced because she couldn't stand it at home anymore. I also know that when their son asked his mother why she keeps taking him back, she told him it was because she did not want to grow old alone (and that information did not come from my MM).

 

In addition, there would be money issues because of having to live in 2 different places and then there's the kids college loans. But they do both make a good living - she even earns more than him.

 

Lastly, I think she refuses to lose. She is very strongminded and runs the show. She made no sense when she would call me and taunt me. She would say he told her he loves HER. Well if that's so, why would he keep pursuing me for 7 years. Personally, (and it took me a long time to realize), if that's love, you can have it. I think she's just sticking it out and has always made it too difficult on him to leave. She involved the children mercilessly. She was ruthless. I even went to the police to get a restraining order.

 

In the end, there are all kinds of reasons. I just finally found out I'm stronger than she is because I decided not to settle for less anymore. But he's her problem now.

 

You story is very familiar...or the personality you describe is. I wonder if they were cloned.

[movinon05]

You story is very familiar...or the personality you describe is. I wonder if they were cloned.

 

I just read your other post regarding your situation. I have to say mine was a little different. Your MM's W sounds like a lunatic and very dangerous. My MMs W just did everything in her power to hurt ME mostly and blame ME. This whole little town knew all about everything and her H made her look like a fool. But she walked around as if everything was normal and happy, and just shot her venom at me and her H. She manipulated her children against their father and got them involved. Only to keep him there! Makes no sense! Why would you insist your children show their father respect and then run him through the coals! I don't get it. God only knows what its like over there now.

[beachrosie]

You story is very familiar...or the personality you describe is. I wonder if they were cloned.

 

I just read your other post regarding your situation. I have to say mine was a little different. Your MM's W sounds like a lunatic and very dangerous. My MMs W just did everything in her power to hurt ME mostly and blame ME. This whole little town knew all about everything and her H made her look like a fool. But she walked around as if everything was normal and happy, and just shot her venom at me and her H. She manipulated her children against their father and got them involved. Only to keep him there! Makes no sense! Why would you insist your children show their father respect and then run him through the coals! I don't get it. God only knows what its like over there now.

 

Yes, lunatic and dangerous are very good descriptions. She too tries to pretend everything is normal and happy, but you can see the anger in her eyes years and years before I even knew him that well. She too manipulates the children, kept one home from school because she wanted him to focus on the father leaving. It's crazy and really sad. She was going to get the other to come and burn down my house if he was here. I mean, really, burn down my house??!! This was when we completely backed off from one another. All that did was bring us back closer than ever...well that and her shreding his clothes right off his back, and telling him to continually get the "f" out! I don't understand why on earth she wants him back so badly if she treated him like a stray dog.

 

I don't get it either. I'm so sorry it didn't work out for you though. But maybe we as people go through some of these trials in life because someone wonderful is close upon our horizons...whether it is with him or not.

 

Thank you for writing me.

[movinon05]

Well I have moved on FWIW. Yours is a very scary situation. I wish you luck.

[lizad]

Reading these posts sound soooo familiar......

I am married and the OM is married.......For the last two years, all I hear from him is how miserable he is at home, how he wants to leave.......etc.

I have never asked him to leave her for me as I have been the one to say to him that I dont believe I will ever leave my marriage......

they fight constantly.......he claims there is no intimacy.....he moved out a few times only to come back.......they are on a family vacation as I write this which of course he says when he returns he is moving out......

( laugh, laugh) I am soo unbelievably tired of hearing his never-ending saga.....

I know at the beginning of our A......he was just looking for an outlet so to speak......I do know that he is in love with me and he claims that he knows we are going to end up together.....( even though I have never said I would leave to be with him)

I would ask him does he think that he is telling me things I want to hear b/c it's all ok. there marriage has gone way downhill since the beginning of the A......until now. I have heard for myself conversations and such with his W so I know something is not right there.

regardless of all this "talk" he is still there and so is she. Now i believe if things were so miserable for both of them, why are they still there? there is a long history and marriage, children, finances and all that. she has said that she does not want a divorce and will live this miserable life for the children........

with all his chatter, he hasn't left either......I even saw separation papers months back......

anyway, I guess something still holds them together....

right now we are in NC......I'm trying to move on with my life and end this affair for my own reasons.....

i am not a "cake-eater" and I dont want the A in my life.....my husband has no idea of anything.

Yes, i did fall in love with the OM but am not blind to his faults at all. I dont think the grass is greener on the other side, I just think we choose our poison so to speak......

it will be interesting to see if he ever has the guts to leave......I doubt it very highly and I am so so sick of hearing him whine and whine and whine and not do anything about it. I am also sure as long as I was in his life, that made it easier for him to stay and grin and bear it. In a sick way, I think they need each other.

I also think that if I follow through and walk , there will be a replacement....he needs that.

I also know that if I were to ever be with him......i could never trust him......ever....

just sharing my story.....so similar to all these posts, it's amazing.

[beachrosie]

Reading these posts sound soooo familiar......

I am married and the OM is married.......For the last two years, all I hear from him is how miserable he is at home, how he wants to leave.......etc.

I have never asked him to leave her for me as I have been the one to say to him that I dont believe I will ever leave my marriage......

they fight constantly.......he claims there is no intimacy.....he moved out a few times only to come back.......they are on a family vacation as I write this which of course he says when he returns he is moving out......

( laugh, laugh) I am soo unbelievably tired of hearing his never-ending saga.....

I know at the beginning of our A......he was just looking for an outlet so to speak......I do know that he is in love with me and he claims that he knows we are going to end up together.....( even though I have never said I would leave to be with him)

I would ask him does he think that he is telling me things I want to hear b/c it's all ok. there marriage has gone way downhill since the beginning of the A......until now. I have heard for myself conversations and such with his W so I know something is not right there.

regardless of all this "talk" he is still there and so is she. Now i believe if things were so miserable for both of them, why are they still there? there is a long history and marriage, children, finances and all that. she has said that she does not want a divorce and will live this miserable life for the children........

with all his chatter, he hasn't left either......I even saw separation papers months back......

anyway, I guess something still holds them together....

right now we are in NC......I'm trying to move on with my life and end this affair for my own reasons.....

i am not a "cake-eater" and I dont want the A in my life.....my husband has no idea of anything.

Yes, i did fall in love with the OM but am not blind to his faults at all. I dont think the grass is greener on the other side, I just think we choose our poison so to speak......

it will be interesting to see if he ever has the guts to leave......I doubt it very highly and I am so so sick of hearing him whine and whine and whine and not do anything about it. I am also sure as long as I was in his life, that made it easier for him to stay and grin and bear it. In a sick way, I think they need each other.

I also think that if I follow through and walk , there will be a replacement....he needs that.

I also know that if I were to ever be with him......i could never trust him......ever....

just sharing my story.....so similar to all these posts, it's amazing.

 

I do believe too, that if people stay in it...it is because of familiarity, co-dependancy, and abuser-abused relationships. I think fortunately there are a lot of people that find the strength to step aside, because life really is very short...why let it continue to be miserable?

 

This entire event has been straining on me as well, but am feeling some comfort in the actions I see that he is taking.

[serial muse]

I think the idea is to get her to conseling to hear the truth from someone else so she doesn't think it is all him, and most of all, because she is the mother of his children and needs help.

 

Also he told her that even though she knows of "two" times we spent the night together, we are just friends, and she believes him. She actually called me yesterday to sincerely thank me, and he hasn't been home in a week. I don't think she actually believes that, and I didn't call her back. I don't want to hurt another human being either, ever. But he tells me he loves me with all his heart, and I am his soul mate, and he is trying to do what is right. I'm feeling very upset today.

 

Well, he wants her to hear his truth from the counselor. The counselor, I expect, will have his/her own take on the situation. That may or may not be in line with what your MM wants to hear. If violence and danger to the children are truly involved, then I'm sure the therapist will take that into account. But s/he will also question him, and rightly so.

 

I'm sorry, but counseling isn't about engineering a way to convince your partner (or ex) of your point of view via a third party who happens to have a license. It's about both people putting in the work to understand each other better, even if that means they then go their separate ways. If he's going in expecting not to change his own thinking at all, but just to convince his W to change hers, then he might as well not bother. It's insulting to everyone involved, not to mention kind of cowardly.

 

And as I said before, if she figures out his plan (and I can't imagine how she could overlook it after even one session together) then I suspect it will backfire. Which probably won't be pretty.

[Blind Illusion]

In response to your original thread question, I think people sometimes are more scared of change than the idea of wasting their lives.

 

I think that could have been me. It was easier to stay in an unsatisfactory marriage and thinking that I'd be happy if my husband changed A, B, and C about himself. It made me dependant upon his actions or lack of them though.

 

My affair taught me that I could be happy regardless of whether certain things were done by my husband but unfortunately, I seemed to have transferred the power to make me happy to the MM. That wasn't good either. In some ways it was worse because my feelings of love are styronger for the MM than my husband and therefore this power was far greater.

 

It is only now that I realize that life is too short and I must create my own happiness and I must have the strength to change these two lacking relationships in my life. Both are doing me harm, each in their own way. Yes, it's scary to put aside what I have known but I finally reached a point where I am more scared not to. (and waste other chances for happiness).

 

Unfortunately, I don't think everyone gets to this point. Some prefer to remain in the mindset that if another party would only _________, life would be complete and happy. (and I have done exactly that with both my husband and MM for the longest point so I am not thinking I am great or anything like that). So long as you transfer this responsibilty for contentment to another, you have freed yourself from being your own responsibility.