Jessie61 Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 > ...I love you. > > I can't do this now. ***Daughter*** is poorly. Sami, I am guessing that MM contacted you to tell you that the daughter is ill and that he can't tell the W? What IS in fact wrong with the daughter? Assuming that it is nothing serious (let's sincerely hope it isn't!!!! The daughter is certainly an innocent party in all of this!), I have at times called this "the stubbed toe" symdrome. My MM was sometime last autumn supposed to tell the W over the weekend that he wanted out and that he didn't love her anymore. What happened? She developed a slight cough which prevented him from telling her.... Yes at first I thought that she was REALLY ill and I felt totally selfish for being disappointed etc, but then I asked him what she actually had.... A cough... I couldn't believe what I was hearing, to be honest! The W was up out of bed functioning as normal, but she has a slight cough! I simply gave him 2 more days to tell her, reminding him that he didn't HAVE to do anything he didn't want to do. But likewise I didn't HAVE to stay in this A either... He went back and told her... At other times before this occasion when he was supposed to "drop the bomb", one of the kids walked into the room as he was about to say it. I asked why didn't you ask the child to leave the room? Another time, the neighbour called in for a cup of coffee. I asked why didn't he wait until the neighbour was gone? Another time, he realised it was some relative's birthday. So what? I asked. Another time, he had to drive the kids to some sports event.... Yes, the list is quite long! Now there is a deadline approaching, and so far MM is doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing. I have told him though that the deadline will NOT be extended, not even by 10 minutes, not for any reason and certainly not simply because someone has "stubbed a toe"! He has assured me that this won't happen.... We shall see, won't we??? Anyway, sorry for this rant. My blood pressure shot through the roof when I read your post! Not necessarily because of YOUR situation admittedly, but because it brought back frustrated memories from last year and early this year; the built up hopes, the disappointments and the heart breaks.... Talk to him. Find out what is wrong with the daughter. Ask him WHEN he will do it. Decide on what you want to do depending on the answers. Remember that it is probably better to have some form of "plan" beforehand. After you might not be thinking completely straight depending on what the answer is.... Stay with us whatever happens!
lovernotafighter Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 LNF, you've got it right. I hope I've finally woken up. Omigosh, LNF! 1. He doesn't want you available for someone else; 2. He won't feel guilty for not leaving his own W. 3. He'll feel more pressure to leave her if he thinks you were going to ultimately be out there waiting or pushing or whatever. He's definitely not thinking about you, is he? Ugh. I'm so sorry for your pain - once again. thanks movinon ,that's it in a nutshell..it doesn't get more selfish than this episode. LNF, You are so right. What you are saying is far from easy to digest, but it is true. Of course they love us - why wouldn't they? But do they love us enough? This is what I am trying to find out. It is terrifying but I have to know. If his love is not enough, then I want to get on with it, and hopefully meet someone who WILL love me enough! right on Jessie,I think ultimately I did want to know if he loves me enough...I think if he loved me as much as I do him he'd do what he had to to be with me and we can work the bull out together. I even told him I can not and will not be in any relationship where my feelings are unreciprocated...he swears we are on the same page..I highly doubt that. > ...I love you. > > I can't do this now. ***Daughter*** is poorly. Sami....is this the response you got from him? I'm sorry. I had hopes that this wouldn't happen to you as well. like I said I do know our MM's love us...but are they willing to do what it takes to be with us...I know I'm tired of being his last priority.
lovernotafighter Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Talk to him. Find out what is wrong with the daughter. Ask him WHEN he will do it. Decide on what you want to do depending on the answers. Remember that it is probably better to have some form of "plan" beforehand. After you might not be thinking completely straight depending on what the answer is.... Stay with us whatever happens! I don't know Jessie asking the MM seems to send them a step back..check this out..my MM fought me tooth and nail last week to keep this thing going and now hasn't tried to contact me since Saturday..which trust me for him is unlikely.he contacts me in some fashion just about everyday..I'm sure it's because of our talk and he needs the final whatever in his mind. my MM honestly only responds to NC..when I ignore him for no reason at all he wigs out..hes probably trying that very tactic on me now..isn't working..I notice but that's it. I think if Sami wants to grab his attention she shouldn't use words..she should use no contact.
newbby Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 sami, i suggest that next time he contacts you, you say to him that YOU cant do this now. if you dont feel strong enough to end things completely at least take a little control back over yourself. give his own words back to him. your mm may not be the scum of the earth, he may be genuinely confused, scared etc, BUT, it is human nature that whilst he can have the best of both worlds he WILL continue to do so. not because he is scum, but because he is human. he of course does not want to disrupt childrens lives, but equally so, his own life. what probably scares him just as much, is not being able to play happy families and to lose the control that he has over that situation. also, nobody wants to be seen by their children as letting them down in some way. it is not just the effect on the childrens lives he is fearing, but also their view of him. it is a BIG thing. whilst he can avoid that, he will likely do so. whilst you continue to see him, he can avoid this and still share a loving relationship with you. the ONLY way he will see clearly what he wants to do, is to see the reality of his life without you. so the thing that is stopping you from giving him this real ultimatum, is your own fears. i suspect that somewhere inside you fear that he will not choose you. this presents to him a message that you are not worth it. i am not being harsh here, nor am i trying to say that he is a stupid or insensitive person, BUT, it is human nature also to see people as they see themselves, to take their cues on how they should be treated. it happens all the time,but we rarely notice it. it doesnt matter if you are generally a confident person with alot of self worth, self respect etc, you can still give the wrong message. its a cliche but actions speak louder than words. its such a difficult position to be in, because whatever you do or say, you have to be prepared to back it up with actions. it is either that, or to accept your position as mistress and then youve no need to do this. this has been going on long enough now, and if you have not already lost your strength or self esteem you will do so, unless you make a decision one way or another on what you want in this relationship, and then stick to your guns. if you feel it is unfair to give him an ultimatum as of course you do not want to force him to make a decision that will impact his childrens lives, then dont do so, but tell him that you can no longer continue being the ow, it is not for you (and then of course stick to that with actions). after all, this is the truth. take care
RecordProducer Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I was thinking the other day how tired I got from seeing threads about OW and people advising them to get out of the affairs so I figured how tired the actual OW must be. Don't you girls just want to quit sometime? I can assume it's very hard when you're in love, but these men who don't leave their wives after a year or more will probably never leave them. A man is either ready for a divorce or not. A new woman might give him an incentive to actually ask for a divorce if he already wants one, but obviously just because he fell in love with another woman won't make him marry her. You really deserve better than dating someone else's husbands. You're wasting precious time and missing the good opportunities. It doesn't matter whether you're still too young and have time to waste or "too old" so you're thinking "who cares". My husband's cousin married her second husband at age 48. He was 58 and that is his first marriage. The LS member Curmudgeon and his wife were 48 and 50 when they got married (second marriages). There are so many nice, single guys out there; why would you want to sacrifice the best time of your life giving love to someone you share with another woman? Many women have left their MM and found the loves of their life. You can do it too. It's easier than you think to get over them. And no, they are not so great as you think - you think that just because they treat you well and don't belong to you. In reality they are liars and cheaters that are not able to make their wives happy. A man who knows how to make his wife happy will actually HAVE a happy wife and never think of another woman. Depressed, nagging, hysterical, boring... those are all traits of women unhappy with their marriages and husbands. You are just dating these guys, you don't know how it feels to live with them. If they were so good, why aren't they good for their wives? And if their wives are so bad, why don't they leave them? So many people get divorced every day with or without an OW in their lives, but these MM want to keep their wives and kids and houses and cars and family reunions and savings and incomes and... YOU at the same time! Doesn't that hurt a lot? Where is your pride and self-respect? Is this what you've always dreamed of? To be somebody's mistress? After all, dumping them is the only way to see if they will choose you or their families. Their family is a very strong competitor so instead of using it as an excuse for his "hesitation" and understanding his position, look at it as a major obstacle that they are not likely to overcome and be with you. I agree with Lovernotfighter about NC with MM. My mom told me once: "If you want a man to propose, don't say or do anything; if you want him to speak - you shut up!"
movinon05 Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I was thinking the other day how tired I got from seeing threads about OW and people advising them to get out of the affairs so I figured how tired the actual OW must be. Don't you girls just want to quit sometime? I can assume it's very hard when you're in love, but these men who don't leave their wives after a year or more will probably never leave them. A man is either ready for a divorce or not. A new woman might give him an incentive to actually ask for a divorce if he already wants one, but obviously just because he fell in love with another woman won't make him marry her. You really deserve better than dating someone else's husbands. You're wasting precious time and missing the good opportunities. It doesn't matter whether you're still too young and have time to waste or "too old" so you're thinking "who cares". My husband's cousin married her second husband at age 48. He was 58 and that is his first marriage. The LS member Curmudgeon and his wife were 48 and 50 when they got married (second marriages). There are so many nice, single guys out there; why would you want to sacrifice the best time of your life giving love to someone you share with another woman? Many women have left their MM and found the loves of their life. You can do it too. It's easier than you think to get over them. And no, they are not so great as you think - you think that just because they treat you well and don't belong to you. In reality they are liars and cheaters that are not able to make their wives happy. A man who knows how to make his wife happy will actually HAVE a happy wife and never think of another woman. Depressed, nagging, hysterical, boring... those are all traits of women unhappy with their marriages and husbands. You are just dating these guys, you don't know how it feels to live with them. If they were so good, why aren't they good for their wives? And if their wives are so bad, why don't they leave them? So many people get divorced every day with or without an OW in their lives, but these MM want to keep their wives and kids and houses and cars and family reunions and savings and incomes and... YOU at the same time! Doesn't that hurt a lot? Where is your pride and self-respect? Is this what you've always dreamed of? To be somebody's mistress? I have to agree with you for the most part. Only because I have gotten out of my situation. No one could have told me anything while going through the A that I would not have him. When you love someone that much, it is by far the scariest thing to let it go. And I really did waste 7 whole years of my life only to realize that I deserved much more than the way I was being treated. Honestly, that is the thing that frustrates me the most. I keep saying to myself - 7 damn years! We only walk this earth one time! Of course, I wish everyone could have what they want. But I guess you have to walk through the fire enough times to realize you are getting burned. And I did find that there really are good guys out there. I may not love them with the intensity that I loved my MM, but that intensity also clouded my judgment. Even though I feel like it was wasted, I did certainly learn alot about myself and become a better person for it. So I am here - just to support each individual and give my example that life can go on. I want to be some source of hope to someone and help them through the process when they finally have to make that big decision to end it or be told it is over and have to accept it. My heart continues to break for those still involved.
Jessie61 Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I think if Sami wants to grab his attention she shouldn't use words..she should use no contact. Yes, you are right. NC or at least the threat of NC, AND she would need to actually mean it! I think Sami needs to take some control back and not leave ALL initiative to him... This requires some "loving assertiveness" (for the want of a better phrase!). OK, the MM let her down, but I would wonder what alternative plan does he have? When? If not too far into the distance, fine. If in 2008, then NC with immediate effect etc. BUT that of course requires that the person is prepared to lose the MM... Sorry Sami, I am talking about you as though you are not here! Please forgive me! I am not sure if you are in fact ready to risk losing him, are you?
Author Sami_D Posted April 26, 2006 Author Posted April 26, 2006 Hello again all. Not feeling too bad today so I thought I'd come in and re-read the latter part of the thread. I just wanted to say that yes, he does now have an ultimatum. I didn't want to give him one, but that's how he's referring to it, so I guess that's what it is. argh. Also, wanted to remind everyone that apart from 16th Feb, the last time we saw each other was mid-December. So... all we have is phonecalls... I'm not seeing him. He was in my area last week and it took ALL of my self-control not to let him come to see me. He knows that until he tells her he wants a separation, he won't ever see me. Monday night (was it Monday?) his daughter had a temperature, nothing at all serious, but he didn't think it was a good time. He is saying he knows it's this week he has to do it. I DO believe he intends to. It is a hard thing... and it needs to be the right time. Remember... it's 'only' been a month since I said to him that it's him leaving, or it's over. I'm just being realistic, I think. IF he doesn't manage to do it this week, then I'm going to have to go NC on him.
Author Sami_D Posted April 27, 2006 Author Posted April 27, 2006 Well, he didn't tell her last night. I got an email saying he was sorry. Then he called this morning, angry with himself. I told him it's OK, that I understand. Leaving a M is NOT easy, and doing it on his birthday after the cards and presents from everyone..? Anyway. I also told him that after the night I'd had last night (hardly slept, and when I did I had a nightmare) I couldn't talk to him again if he doesn't do it today. That there was nothing else to say. He agreed. He said he'd lain in bed this morning asking himself WHY he couldn't do it. WHY he'd gone home three times this week prepared to tell her and each time 'bottled it' (as he said). And he'd realised that the fact that I'm there, any time he wants to pick up the phone, and being understanding, is not helping. It's keeping him from doing it. And he says there's actually nothing now that I could say, or we could talk about, that will make it more likely to happen. We've debated it from every angle, and now it's time to act. So, we've agreed that he can email me tonight to tell me what happened this afternooon (W's half day) and evening. And if he didn't manage to tell her, that it's NC until he does. He says he thinks it's only that which will finally make him move. So. I'm on day 1 of NC. I'm feeling OK-ish at the moment. Actually a lot calmer than I have for weeks. I think that's because I know in my heart that I've done everything I could to make this work. The ball is in his court now. Thanks all for your help.
Jessie61 Posted April 27, 2006 Posted April 27, 2006 Well, he didn't tell her last night. I got an email saying he was sorry. Then he called this morning, angry with himself. I told him it's OK, that I understand. Leaving a M is NOT easy, and doing it on his birthday after the cards and presents from everyone..? Anyway. I also told him that after the night I'd had last night (hardly slept, and when I did I had a nightmare) I couldn't talk to him again if he doesn't do it today. That there was nothing else to say. He agreed. He said he'd lain in bed this morning asking himself WHY he couldn't do it. WHY he'd gone home three times this week prepared to tell her and each time 'bottled it' (as he said). And he'd realised that the fact that I'm there, any time he wants to pick up the phone, and being understanding, is not helping. It's keeping him from doing it. And he says there's actually nothing now that I could say, or we could talk about, that will make it more likely to happen. We've debated it from every angle, and now it's time to act. So, we've agreed that he can email me tonight to tell me what happened this afternooon (W's half day) and evening. And if he didn't manage to tell her, that it's NC until he does. He says he thinks it's only that which will finally make him move. So. I'm on day 1 of NC. I'm feeling OK-ish at the moment. Actually a lot calmer than I have for weeks. I think that's because I know in my heart that I've done everything I could to make this work. The ball is in his court now. Thanks all for your help. Sami, Just thought I'd post a few lines to you. I have nothing really to say to make it easier for you today; I have been there myself (what am I saying?? I AM there!!!!) and I know how agonising, frustrating and terrifying it is. Tick tock, tick tock and you have no idea how it is going to pan out.... I still think that he is genuine in his feelings for you. Why? I haven't a clue, I just get that impression. However, as in my case, I have had to accept that some people, not matter how much they feel for you, might be a permanent "cold feet" person. Until the deadline expires, I can only guess what is going to happen, just like yourself. And, again, just like yourself, I feel calmer now than I have done in ages; I know that I am doing the right thing by insisting on this deadline. (Any mention of it and there is a shiver of fear on MM's voice! ) The deadline is the only thing that will produce any results; a future together or a new life post-OW! Sami, you have done everything that you can do; you have been loving, understanding and supportive for a long time in relation to HIS difficulties and concerns, and now it is YOUR turn to get "something" back. Now we'll just wait and see. Check in later if you can to let us know what happens? No matter what the news are; good, bad or indifferent! I'm in your corner!
lovernotafighter Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 yes defiantly we all are in your corner Sami...I've been wanting to write more lately but have been bogged down with work..but I'm still here following your story and wishing you the best! like Jessie stated, you have been a pillar of patience with your MM, it time you should start coming first in his life. I also agree that I think he is sincere in his love for you, we know how difficult it is for the MM to leave..they never expected to fall in love out side their marriage and it is truly difficult...but love finds a way, Id like to believe that. please let us know how things are going and that your okay stay strong sami
Author Sami_D Posted April 28, 2006 Author Posted April 28, 2006 Thanks Jessie and LNF. Yesterday was 'get through each minute' day. Had the agreed email from him last night saying he had a terrible journey home yesterday thinking of us, reminding me to stay strong, and telling me that he knows he will tell her. Today I'm all over the place. Haven't really slept, and can't seem to do anything but nap fitfully. I have no idea how I'm going to stick to this, but I'm going to HAVE TO. I have to be strong, even though I just don't feel like it.
movinon05 Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 Thanks Jessie and LNF. Yesterday was 'get through each minute' day. Had the agreed email from him last night saying he had a terrible journey home yesterday thinking of us, reminding me to stay strong, and telling me that he knows he will tell her. Today I'm all over the place. Haven't really slept, and can't seem to do anything but nap fitfully. I have no idea how I'm going to stick to this, but I'm going to HAVE TO. I have to be strong, even though I just don't feel like it. Oh Sami, I so know what you're going through. Good news is, you haven't heard from him. Bad news is, you haven't heard from him. He could have told her and is dealing with it, or he doesn't have the heart to tell you he hasn't, or he has decided not to contact you since he hasn't, or until he does. The unknown list is endless. Its gut wrenching. ((((Hugs))))
Jessie61 Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 Yesterday was 'get through each minute' day. Had the agreed email from him last night saying he had a terrible journey home yesterday thinking of us, reminding me to stay strong, and telling me that he knows he will tell her. Today I'm all over the place. Haven't really slept, and can't seem to do anything but nap fitfully. I have no idea how I'm going to stick to this, but I'm going to HAVE TO. I have to be strong, even though I just don't feel like it. Sami, I was actually wondering about you as I was logging in! I can honestly say that I know how you feel.... Been there myself. It is the worst feeling in the world, you can't sleep, you can't eat, you can't distract yourself my reading or watching the telly, you can't work... Like I have said before, I have other compared it to being under siege; you just take one minute at a time because that is all you can cope with.... When is he supposed to tell her? How long will you have to agonise like this? Stay with us no matter what happens! OK? Remember also that every minute, hour and day that you stick to the plan is a VICTORY for you!
Author Sami_D Posted April 28, 2006 Author Posted April 28, 2006 movinon As movinon sort of was saying, jessie... this is it now. He's got forever or as long as it takes. Unless he tells her, he can't contact me. AND... I won't contact him. So... at some point I suppose I'll realise... he's either decided he can't do it, or something... Sad thought I had today was that if he gets run over by a bus or something, I'll never know (yes, just me being positive as usual!)
Jessie61 Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 As movinon sort of was saying, jessie... this is it now. He's got forever or as long as it takes. Unless he tells her, he can't contact me. AND... I won't contact him. So... at some point I suppose I'll realise... he's either decided he can't do it, or something... Sad thought I had today was that if he gets run over by a bus or something, I'll never know (yes, just me being positive as usual!) Sami, I am sure that there will be a time when you'll actually WISH that he would get run over by a bus..!!!! OK, so this is it? I wish I could tell you that it is going to be a "stroll in the park" but you know yourself that it isn't. The last time I was in NC mode was the month of February and 1st week in March (give or take a couple of days!). It felt like 6 years! First of all, I think it is vitally important that you look after yourself. Make sure you eat and TRY to get some sleep! (Easier said than done!) Make an effort to spend time with friends, because they will distract you even if it is only for a few minuntes at a time, you need to have moments when you feel NORMAL again. Try to get used to the idea that your life has to go on and that you WILL be happy again, because it is actually true. Give yourself LOADS of credit for having walked away; no matter what happens, you can look yourself in the mirror and hold your head high. You know that you deserve better than being an OW, you insisted on it and you were brave enough to take the consequences. Stay with us!
Author Sami_D Posted April 28, 2006 Author Posted April 28, 2006 I will definitely stay for a while. Not sure at what point I'll think I can't bear to read and post about affairs. If he leaves, I hope I'll have a lot more interesting things to do than post if he doesn't... eventually I'll want to move on from remembering and going over 'affairs'. We went NC last October. At the time he was in no way ready to leave, and it was absolutely harrowing to do. I managed to stick with it for two weeks, but there were too many things we hadn't discussed, too many reasons for him not leaving, too much unfinished business. So I got back in contact with him. This time it's totally different, and I'm sure I can stick to it for as long as it takes. Because he's said he is ready to leave, and I'm also absolutely through with being the OW. And we've discussed it to death. So... if it doesn't happen now I don't believe it ever would. WHY is all this SO HARD???
zarathustra Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 WHY is all this SO HARD??? Sami, its hard because you have a great capacity to love and feel. If you didn't, you would be able to just love him and leave him. Embrace that you can feel so much even though when things are bad, it feels really really crappy. Take one day at a time and take time to take care of yourself.
Author Sami_D Posted May 11, 2006 Author Posted May 11, 2006 Just to update: Just entered week 3 of NC. Some downs, but mostly OK, and feeling positive about life. I'm not reading or posting on the forum at the moment because it just depresses me to read about all the negativity. And I need to stay positive to stay NC. Best of luck to you all, Sami.
RealityCheck Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 Sami.... I am glad you are remaining strong! Good for you! We all know how tough it is to let it go! You are right, reading negativity is not at all good in the space you are in! Do what ever you need to do! We all stand in support of you during this time! *hugs*
Blind Illusion Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 Good job on 3 weeks Sami. I can so understand about the continual reading of affair posts and what it can do to you. All the dwelling sometimes just makes you move backwards emotionally-at least for me.
Author Sami_D Posted May 11, 2006 Author Posted May 11, 2006 Thanks Just want to reiterate... I'm not in NC because he was a pig, or was anything less than wonderful 99% of the time. I'm in NC because while he was on the edge of leaving her, no longer loves her, knows his future is with me... he knew that me being there for him was stopping him from actually doing it. So, while some of you may think I'm deluding myself ~ and who knows, you may be right ~ what I believe I'm doing is going through with Old Europe's advice as offered to me earlier on this thread (AND on my earlier thread last Oct, only I wasn't ready then). No, I'm not giving up hope. I don't see that I need to. I don't think NC HAS to mean 'giving up hope'. I believe it can be a part of stating who you are and what you'll accept. You don't have to wait till you're at the pit of disaster, and he's dragged you over the coals into hell, and disregarded you, cast you aside, gone back to his wife, and posted on internet sites... you CAN GO NC without that. That is what I have done. You can too.
Author Sami_D Posted May 11, 2006 Author Posted May 11, 2006 Sami, you have your answer right there. You have GOT to set parameters to this relationship or it will just spin (and spin and spin) in place. I quote you again: 1) You do not want to be the OW --and you do NOT have to be! 2) You want him to tell his wife the truth, and that he no longer loves her--then require him to do so before you proceed with any more physical contact/meetings between you 3) You want him to have faith in the idea that his children will not be screwed up in the end--this you know he has to realize for himself; you cannot "teach" him any more than what arguments on this topic I assume you have already presented to him Please step back, look at your posts, see the state that you are in. You know it is time to simply cut off your contact with him or at the very most reduce to polite, encouraging, but distant answers-to-HIS-calls (no calling from you). There is no magic wand, no special, magic pixie dust, no holding your breath counting to ten wishing that "suddenly" makes them decide. He has to panic like hell at the thought and THE REALITY of your absence from his life for him to start making major moves. Humans are true creatures of habit, people say they like change, most really do not. You have to engage in a bit of 'psychological warfare' at this point. You just do Just to remind people... this is what Old Europe advised.
RealityCheck Posted May 11, 2006 Posted May 11, 2006 Sami..... It is true that we all go NC for our own personal reasons. Your story was completely the opposite of mine that is for sure! For me, my exMM turned out to be someone that has more issues than just his marriage. Though I did not see it at the time, I sure as hell am seeing it now! So grateful to have seen it now! Good Luck to you Girl!
Author Sami_D Posted May 11, 2006 Author Posted May 11, 2006 RC I just posted on your thread... take care. I hinted about it once on here, but in a past (abusive) R, I did some of the 'hunting online' stuff. It was a symptom of a very bad situation. And... nuts as he was... I think I ended up nuttier trying to outwit him.
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