My stomach is in my throat

[StrivingtoSucceed]

O.K., for those of you who don’t know my story here is a quick version. H had short-term EA with OW and just as all stories goes, didn’t want to their friendship to end. Of course, it did, b/c as we all know, you can’t have a ‘friendship’ when it already crossed the line. Trouble is, b/c of work-related issues, they still have to communicate from time to time. Sometimes it can be frequently, sometimes it can be a month in-between. This issue is not something that can change.

 

Yesterday, H just seemed to treat me differently. I say seemed b/c it could have been all me and there really was nothing there. It could have been b/c he was having a bad day, he was frustrated, whatever ... we all have those days, I know. But, of course, b/c I think he was acting differently, all the thoughts and feelings that I don’t want to think and feel came back at me full force.

 

So, today I have to ask if he has talked to her. I have to ask, b/c if I don’t I will replay everything over and over in my head and it won’t go away. I went to his work at lunch, of course, he was happy to see me and was just talking away about his day. Then he said that I was pretty quiet and asked what was wrong. So I told him that since I felt he had acted differently the day before (which he knows b/c we had talked about it last night ... he apologized if he acted differently, but didn’t really think he did). I told him that if I didn’t ask, I would keep thinking about it over and over. He said go ahead and ask. So I asked him if he has talked to her for anything other than work. He said as a matter of fact, I haven’t talked to her in a couple of months. I said oh. He said do you have any other questions, I said no. I did, but his one answer made them unnecessary (i.e., if he had talked to her for work, I would have asked if she, or he, made any personal comments, etc.).

 

Then he said that he has wanted to call her to harass her. I asked him why he would want to do that. He said that he doesn’t want to harass her like I think, he wants to harass her b/c he thinks she is mad at him. He hasn’t called her, so he thinks she is mad at him and isn’t calling him. So he isn’t calling her. Of course, that got my mind really rolling.

 

He said isn’t that the answer you wanted to hear? I said part of it was, part of it wasn’t. He said would you rather me say that I talk to her three times a week, but don’t want to harass her. I said I would rather hear that you haven’t talked to her nor do you want to talk to her. He said hmm. I said don’t you think that for someone that has feelings for you, that you know wants to have a relationship with you, for you to call them and harass them for not calling you is only making them feel bad? He didn’t say anything to this, just another hmm.

 

I had to leave and asked him to do me a favor ... he said, if I talk to her don’t talk about us or anything personal, right. I said that isn’t what I was going to ask. He said it was. It wasn’t. What I was going to ask is that if they do talk for work, that he not harass her at all, not say anything like why haven’t you called me, are you mad at me (these are the types of things he would say when he means harass), etc. Just keep it business only. He just said I see. I said do you see. He said yes I do. I said I don’t think you do. He said I see, says the blind man.

 

At this point I want to scream. How can he even think that it would be o.k. to harass her? To even want to harass her? I mean, my feelings aside how can he even think that it would be o.k. for her? I think he thinks b/c they promised that no matter what they would still remain friends that he can call her and harass her and she'll enjoy it. That b/c he knows it isn't going anywhere and he doesn't even want it to go anywhere, that it would be o.k. I think it would only give her false hope. Do I think that there is the issue of his ego at stake here? Yes, I do. I think he felt very good that there were two women who wanted him at a point in time that he felt very low about himself. Are we doing great now? Yes, for the most part ... until things like this happen. Any comments that will help me calm down would be greatly appreciated!

[whichwayisup]

Uhmmmm, he has to STOP caring about what this OW thinks/feels/says PERIOD! He shouldn't even be thinking about her at all!

 

Who fricken cares if she's pissed off at him and that's why she's not calling. It's like he's playing a game of cat and mouse with her or something.

 

To be honest, whether or not HE is aware of what he's doing, it's still stupid and you should explain to him that because he's wanting to "harrass" her means he is WASTING time thinking of her meanwhile he should be just concentrating on you and the marriage. Gaining your trust again. Assuming here, he probably hasn't a clue that one cannot be friends with the person he cheated with! Point that out to him and stick to your guns.

 

Again, SO what if he promised her they'd still be friends. She's a grown woman and knows how hard it is to be friendly with an ex on a good day, so allowing a friendship (emotional affair) to continue kind of means it's not over.

 

Is she married? If so, threaten to tell her spouse of what she is doing.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

He sounds very insensitive and immature... like my husband. My husband will make comments like your husband, thinking that that would "proove" that he hasn't talked to her.

[Sami_D]

Is she married? If so, threaten to tell her spouse of what she is doing.

 

Unless I've read something wrong, SHE hasn't called. She's ignoring him?

 

It's him that was thinking of calling (or saying he hadn't or whatever he was trying to prove or say or whatever he was thinking)

[StrivingtoSucceed]

Thank you so much for replying WWIU! I was hoping you would as I know you know the whole story.

 

I agree that this seems like a game he is playing. My thoughts exactly. And you are right, who the hell cares if she is mad. Of course, I don't always say everything that enters my mind ... I'm not much into confrontation and therefore try to avoid it at all costs. So, I don't say it like you did, I say it nicer. Which I shouldn't.

 

No, she isn't married. Her H left her 8 yrs ago for OW. Since then she has only dated married men, or gay men. I'm sure she dated other guys as well, but she made the comment to my H that all the good men are either gay, or married and that is what she keeps ending up with. Think she has an issue with committment, but that is neither here, nor there.

 

 

because he's wanting to "harrass" her means he is WASTING time thinking of her meanwhile he should be just concentrating on you and the marriage. Gaining your trust again. Assuming here, he probably hasn't a clue that one cannot be friends with the person he cheated with! Point that out to him and stick to your guns.

 

At this point, she isn't doing anything. Previously she would call and use work as an excuse just to see how he was doing (last time was Christmas/New Years time). Or, when he would call for an order she would try to make it personal He always changed the subject straight to work and then told her he was busy and had to go. This went on from September through December when she obviously let it go. For him to want to call her and harass her, to me, is that he is really being an a**hole to her. I mean really, how can he not see that? O.K., so he calls her and gives her a hard time ... that would only generate her having hope that we aren't working out and that she has a chance ... she then starts calling him again and then he puts her off like he had before b/c he doesn't want a relationship with her. Just as you said ... a game of cat and mouse.

 

It obviously bothers him that she hasn't called. Otherwise he wouldn't think of calling to harass her and I think, more importantly, his ego is suffering because of it.

 

That is what I want to say to him, that he's thinking of her and that is wasting time that he should just be concentrating on me and him. Of course, if I were to say that, he would come back and say that I'm wasting my time thinking of her as well. It is like what KnowHowLoveFeels said, he would say something that to him should make me feel better, but it doesn't really. I know he doesn't mean to be insensitive, and maybe it is all the girl/guy thing that we just can't grasp.

[StrivingtoSucceed]

Sami_D

 

Yes - it was him saying that they hadn't talked, but he has wanted to, but he hasn't. She has not called him, she seems to have let it go.

 

I know he said that thinking it would make me feel better. Kind of like, "Look, I wanted to harass her (not in the way you think), but I haven't b/c I know you wouldn't like it, so doesn't that make me a better person!"

 

But, all it did was make me stick on the "but I've wanted to harass her" part. And, of course, I should be mad at him for it and MY feelings. But, at the same time, as a woman, I think I'm angrier b/c he thinks it would be o.k. to put her through all the hell again, b/c of course, it would only be as a 'friend.' I'm angry that he doesn't even think that it would hurt. O.K., I said that too fast ... obviously he knows it would hurt, otherwise he would have gave in to his urge and called her. He hasn't and for that I'm glad. But ... I still want to scream about this. I want to tell him that if he isn't calling her b/c of what it might do to MY feelings, then he needs to move out. I want a H that isn't calling the OW b/c he doesn't want to at all.

[Guest]

STS-

I am dealing with the SAME thing! I actually want to ask you some questions. I have taken this EA very hard, as if it were a full blown affair. He cant prove it otherwise. It was also with a woman he worked with - about 9 months. No sex, no kissing, no hand holding, no nothing he says. I say, yea right!

He refused to tell me he had worked with her (to protect her) and when I found out all his lies the s*** hit the fan. So, now I am dealing with his EA, and his lies.

 

They dont see it. B/c they didnt kiss or have sex (like they say!) they dont see it as wrong, b/c they stayed faithful. It took a lot of bricks being thrown at his head for him to admit he was wrong. But, accroding to him, its all his fault. Like she did nothing wrong! She knew he had a wife!

 

I guess my biggest question, is did or do you flip out over this? I cant seem to shake the betrayed feeling. Lots of hidden communication between phone calls, texts, IMs.....AFTER WORK!

 

Oh yea, he said he could not tell me about her b/c I would not understand! WHAT WIFE WOULD???

 

Sometimes I feel like I am over reacting, crying over something that was so little. But, was it? How do you deal?

 

So sorry we have to go through this s***! What was his reasoning for having an EA?

[zarathustra]

If she's let it go and he contacts her, then he is really harrassing her. If she felt anything for your H, which she probably did, then he would be cruel to hinder her healing process by talking to her and would be hindering the progress you and he were making in your marriage.

 

Maybe you need to sit him down and beat some sense into his thick and insensitive skull?

[StrivingtoSucceed]

Z -

 

I would love to beat some sense into him. He really just does not get it. I can change the tables all I want to try to make him understand, but he still just does not get it.

 

Since I am a nice person, maybe that is how I need to phrase it to him tonight. Not that I want to talk about it anymore. I'd rather that the whole thing just disappear, but since those weren't the cards I was dealt, I feel that it needs to be made abundantly clear to him that him even doing something like that is ... as you said, cruel to her b/c it will hinder her healing process ... which she is obviously going through right now.

 

Of course, there's lots of other stuff I want to say. Lots of stuff I want to yell. But, I never do. I just keep it all inside and then when I do let any of it out, I'm too nice about it.

 

Sometimes, just sometimes, I look at this whole thing and think what in world am I doing? What prize exactly is it that I "won?" Don't get me wrong ... I love my husband. I love our life. We are happy. In fact, as happy now as we were before we had our baby and things/feelings just went unanswered/ignored ... for both of us. I know how things happen and I realize how this happened. We both do and have taken the steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. We just had this little glitch ... but sometimes, this little glitch seems to overwhelm me. And sometimes, I want to beat him senseless for his inability to figure it all out and realize that he can't be friends with her ... they never were really even friends ... he never told her anything about himself in the present tense. It was the things they had in commone, i.e., they went to the same junior high, they worked for the same company, they knew the same people. He never told her anything about his family (not just me and our kids, but about his parents), about his best-friends, about his likes/dislikes, about his hobbies, and, most important, about his medical condition. It was his way of acting like he wasn't sick.

[zarathustra]

s2s, keeping your emotions in check and being nice is obviously not working. I think that the trouble you may be having keeping your lid on in this situation. Talk about how you feel and let him know that he will have to take into consideration your feelings where this is concerned.

 

I know if I found out that my xMM said what your H said to his W about harassing me, I would be really hurt by it. I was really hurt by my xMM taking my well wishes on his health (he's been sick) to a way to talking to me and starting a conversation with me and then flaunting at me how he and his W is doing amazingly well. I felt crushed by it. I won't make the same mistake of wishing him well again even if he's not feeling well.

Don't get me wrong, I do wish him good health and happiness.

 

If I have any advice to give you on this is to really think about what you want to say to your H and how you will deliver the message. Sometimes if you talk about how you feel in the matter and hears how he thinks maintaining contact with her will be beneficial to everyone involved, it will help you get the message across. At least he will admit that contact would cause nothing but pain and misery to everyone around.

[StrivingtoSucceed]

I agree that HOW I say something is very important. I am great at public speaking. I'm great at writing. I'm great at meeting people. I'm in sales ... I have to be. But, when it comes to personal issues, where my emotions are involved they tend to run haywire ... that is where I lose control and feel that half the time when I am talking I'm not making any sense to the person I'm talking to.

 

It is a very fine line to maintain a calmness when what I am feeling is anger. Anger that any of this happened. Anger that any of this still exists. I haven't felt this anger in months. Actually, I don't even really know if I ever felt anger. I think I was more understanding than anything. Today though, the anger is there.

 

Previously we have talked. I have explained my feelings to him, in great detail. He is very remorseful and knows that what he did was wrong. He knows how it got to where it was and will never allow anything like that to get even remotely close to crossing a line again. He is doing all that he can to gain my trust again. And, he is doing a great job.

 

However, with all that said, and with him thinking that since it is over to him, and since he knows it will never go anywhere ever again, there is no need to talk about it. Wellllll ... if it is over, then why is he thinking about calling her to harass her? That pisses me off.

[StrivingtoSucceed]

Z -

 

I'm sorry your exMM treated you as he did. I think that was very uncaring and selfish of him. He probably didn't even realize that what he was saying was very hurtful to you. He could have thought that by telling you that, it would make it easier for you to move on.

 

I want to clarify that my H would never talk about us with her. He never did before and never will. But, that may be the problem. Maybe he thinks that as long as he doesn't talk about anything personal then it is o.k. to talk to her. Where would I find fault with that. Thinking about it I can see where his mind would think that way. If they aren't talking about us, or anything personal, and he doesn't want anything from her but friendship, then there is no reason for there to be anything wrong with it.

 

I just need to figure out a way for him to understand it does no one any good. Then again, I also feel that I shouldn't have to make him understand it ... it should be obvious and something that is automatically known.

[Blind Illusion]

If she's let it go and he contacts her, then he is really harrassing her. If she felt anything for your H, which she probably did, then he would be cruel to hinder her healing process by talking to her and would be hindering the progress you and he were making in your marriage.

 

Maybe you need to sit him down and beat some sense into his thick and insensitive skull?

 

This is true. It also sets mixed messages to the OW. Most OW are not going to do a Fatal Attraction 2 for the MM if he choses to end it. So many times people wonder why the OW can't let go and the answer clearly lies in instances like this. What the MM says initially and his actions afterwards are two very different things.

[StrivingtoSucceed]

Guest -

 

A lot of questions I will try to answer for you. It is a very confusing time for you and I completely understand.

 

Brief history - we had a child at the same time my h was diagnosed with a disabling disease. He was struggling with understanding what was happening to him at the same time that I was unable to be there for him due to a newborn. He worked with a girl that he was able to laugh and joke with. In March of 05 she left the company to go work for one of their vendors. She kept in contact with my H as the vendor she went to work for had none of his company's business and of course, as a sales person, she wanted his business. One thing led to another and they were talking on the phone two/three times a day last July. The first week in August he told me he no longer knew what he wanted and told me all about her. (I was on vacation, she invited him to lunch and then invited him to dinner ... since I was out of town. They went to dinner and that was it. The next day he asked her if she had wanted more the night before, she said yes. He said he did too. Then he left that morning to join me for vacation.) We cut vacation short and returned. He had to go see her to tell her that we were going to work everything out and it was at this point that he kissed her. Since then, a lot of ups and some downs. August was a horrible month. September it got better and it has ever since then. December right before Xmas I kind of lost it as she called him "just to see how he was doing" and "if everything is going well for him." Since then, nothing ... until I asked today and his comment that he "wants" to call just to harass her.

 

It took a lot for my H to realize he was wrong and he fought it hard. It wasn't until December when I think he readily admited that he was an a**hole and that he f***ed up and that he was completely sorry. Of course, during September, October and November he would say it, but only if I asked. It was never a free thought or comment, I felt it was more only to end the conversation we would have been having at the time.

 

He has blocked the majority of what happened and what was said out of his mind. He doesn't remember more than half of it. He really doesn't. He says it is b/c he doesn't want to remember it. I can understand that. It was a tough time for both of us. But, b/c I am the one who recieved the hurt I remember it very clearly. B/c he is the one that dealt it, he has chosen to forget it. (Not saying he wasn't hurting, b/c he was.)

 

Did I flip out. You bet ya. For three days during vacation I could do nothing but sit in the bathroom and cry my eyes out. Note, we were on vacation with his mom and step-dad and two of our children. One of those days I flipped out so badly (he had just told me that while they didn't do anything, his heart wanted to), that I went ballistic and started beating him. His arms, his back, his stomach, whatever was in the line of my fists. It lasted probably 30 seconds, but felt like an eternity. I felt horrible, but at the time was overcome with so many emotions I didn't even know who I was at that point in time. The betrayal was so intense. To have not just my husband, but my best friend to turn on me in such a fashion was the ultimate betrayal.

 

The only "hiding" that ever occured was during the month of July when they were talking everyday. Obviously some before that as well for it to reach the point of twice/three times a day. After he told me about it he never kept anything from me. That has been our relationship though from its beginning, tell the truth even if it hurts. The only time was with the phone calls. There were never any calls at night, or weekends, nor any emails, text messages, im's. Nothing like that. Only calls during the work day. If I would have asked during that time he might have told me, but I was too wrapped up in being a mother and trying to take care of everything else to notice that something was missing. That something wasn't right. I noticed, but thought it was b/c of him being sick. I questioned, but the responses were b/c he was sick.

 

But then again, at that point in time there was nothing happening, so even if I would have asked if there was someone else his answer would have been no. Not until they had dinner that night before he left for vacation with me and he called her the next morning to ask if she had wanted more was there something there for him (in his mind).

 

So a lot of the lies and such I can't really relate to b/c that wasn't there. There are times I wish he didn't tell me the truth and everything that happened ... like when we came back from vacation and he HAD TO TELL HER IN PERSON!!! I know every detail from that meeting and I wish I didn't. He sat with her, he put his hand on her knee, they KISSED. Even though he told me that he was going to tell her that he was going to work on us. Within one week (they didn't see each other except at work when he would have to pick up product, etc. during this time), I reached a point that I stopped being nice and understanding and told him that I didn't want this anymore ... I wanted him to leave. Once I said that is when everything changed. Once I became assertive and said I wouldn't accept them even being friends (which I made the mistake of saying I would accept in the beginning) and that if he continued on this path, I would leave. Then he realized that isn't what he wanted, he wanted "us."

 

So, now he has "us" back. We take the time to be with each other as a couple almost everyday. We have lunch, we have dinner w/o the baby (we're lucky though ... my parents our my day care providers). We have one complete weekend a month alone. We began doing things that we used to love to do, but somehow just stopped when I got pregnant.

 

How do I deal? Most times since January great. Every once in awhile I feel down and overwhelmed, but since he is showing me everyday that he wants to be with me and that he loves me, that goes a long way in healing the pain.

 

But look at this ... he goes and tells me that he "wants" to call her to harass her. How do I deal with this? I don't know. I'm trying.

 

I'll be off-line until tomorrow if you have any more questions, so I'll answer them then, or you can pm me.

[Guest]

Thank u SO much for your reply! Knowing that someone out there, is in almost the same exact situation, helps me A LOT!

You are luckier in a way because your husband confessed to you. At least he felt some sort of guit. My husband lied until I had proof. Oh yea, I know that 3 times a day talking during work. But he also did it after work, on his days off, and while he was at his other job. She worked in the same department in the same company, yet told me it she worked at supply company. This carried on for 3 weeks, until my detective worked paid off and I realized she actually worked with him, in the same building. She even knew his schedule! When and where he went. Son of a bitch still lied to me after I was on my knees just begging for the truth. He was the big persurer, all though she didnt say no, I cant, I am married.

Even though you are going through so much emotional pain, I feel a bit better knowing that I am not alone!

[Jessie61]

 

However, with all that said, and with him thinking that since it is over to him, and since he knows it will never go anywhere ever again, there is no need to talk about it. Wellllll ... if it is over, then why is he thinking about calling her to harass her? That pisses me off.

 

Striving to Succeed,

 

I am sorry to see that you are in the situation that you find yourself in. It cannot be easy.

 

If the OW is not contactin your H, then I think that would suggest that she has moved on, or at least she has accepted that the A is over. In the circumstances, I feel that it would be totally unfair and selfish of your H to contact her for any reason, escpecially if the reason is that HE wants to "harrass" her! Leave her alone, I say. He should be concentrating on YOU instead.

 

As for why he wants to contact her, even if it is only to harass her, I can only guess; perhaps HE is finding it hard to accept that it is over? Perhaps HE is peeved that the OW seems to have gotten on with her life? Perhaps HE hopes that the renewed contact somehow will result in the A being resumed? Perhaps all of this is sub-conscious on his part???

 

I don't think you can even entertain any further contact with OW, which is not strictly work related - and certainly not "harrassment"! And he must be completely transparent to you about any work related contact he has had with her, without you having to ask!

 

You are RIGHT to be concerned and pissed off and there IS a reason for the two of you to talk about this. I do wish you all the best!

[Sami_D]

How do I deal? Most times since January great. Every once in awhile I feel down and overwhelmed, but since he is showing me everyday that he wants to be with me and that he loves me, that goes a long way in healing the pain.

 

But look at this ... he goes and tells me that he "wants" to call her to harass her. How do I deal with this? I don't know. I'm trying.

 

StS you're going over and over this one little comment he made that was completely insensitive and maybe means nothing. But underlying that, it's my guess that there are lots of unresolved feelings here for you. OK, you've re-organised your lives so you spend a good amount of time together, you've looked at why the affair happened in the first place... but you're not over it, and you're still worried about something, still not forgiven him maybe, and he's being a complete dunce about it.

 

Have you done any MC, or even individual counselling, that would help you get to the bottom of this? Because at the moment, you're just not getting what you need from him... and maybe you don't even know what that is? And he doesn't seem able to realise just what his infidelity has done to your R, or how much it hurts or why it hurts. I think that you would benefit from looking at it all again, so you can put it to bed and move on. Just some thoughts, anyway.

[StrivingtoSucceed]

I think I jumped the gun on his one comment. We talked last night and he again said that it’s not like I think. I asked him to explain to me what it is that he thinks I think. He said you think I want to call her to start everything all over again, or that I want to renew the friendship with her, and that isn’t it at all. He said that harass wasn’t the word to use, maybe he should have said a hard time. I asked him to explain to me his thoughts and feelings. He said that he wants to call her and give her a hard time just like he does other vendors that don’t call him at least once a month. Which is true ... he does call vendors that don’t call him and he asks them point blank “have you fallen of the face of the earth, or what ... I haven’t heard from you” type stuff. (He is a firm believer that if someone wants your business, they maintain contact with you even if you aren’t calling them to put in an order.)

 

I said that my feelings aside, b/c she had feelings for him, for him to call her, even to give her a hard time like he said, would be totally unfair to her. He asked why ... I said b/c she is obviously moving on and for you to call and give her a hard time would give her mixed signals. If you were to call her b/c you have an order and that was that, there are no mixed signals and she can continue moving on. If you were to call her and in addition to giving her your order you give her a hard time, she won’t know what to think.

 

He then said that he wasn’t done explaining to me and added that he won’t call her b/c he knows it would be wrong, he knows that she would get the wrong impression, just like I got the wrong impression. So, even though he wants to b/c that is the way he is, he won’t. That is what he meant when he said he wanted to call her and harass her ... and, as Sami said, I was going over and over that one comment he made when he meant it in a totally different context then I thought.

 

I also did assume that it bothers him that she isn’t calling. That he is sitting there thinking about the fact that she is pissed at him for not calling her. It bothers him only in the context of work as stated above. I have to say here that it amazes me that my H, who is actually a very smart man, can not even begin to realize that once you cross the line, you can’t go back to being the way things were. Yes, some people can, but most can’t. I guess in the relationship arena, he still has a long way to go. I knew that when I got involved with him and I was his first real girlfriend, he didn’t know anything about relationships and as time has gone on sometimes it is more transparent than other times. He is learning and has come a long way from ten years ago though.

 

but you're not over it, and you're still worried about something, still not forgiven him maybe, and he's being a complete dunce about it.

 

I’m pretty sure I’ve forgiven him. If I haven’t I’m not aware of it. I’ve been on the other side and I can understand and am more forgiving than other people I know. Of course, I’m not stupid either ... if it happened again it will be over.

 

What is it that I’m worried about? I don’t know. Usually I do a great job of not even thinking about it anymore. Counting up the months since I found out ... eight months. I think I’ve don’t a good job of moving on myself and going forward with us. But you are right, Sami, there is something that I’m worried about that. If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t have started worrying just b/c he was acting differently on one day out of the month. All of us are entitled to have various moods.

 

I’m worried about it happening again b/c then I know I would leave, I wouldn’t accept it. I don’t know how to explain this ... I’m not worried that it will happen again b/c now we both know what to look for and I know my H enough to know that this was a one-time thing, he won’t make the same mistake again. And, neither will I.

 

I guess b/c I was completely blind-sided by it. I’m not saying that I didn’t know something was wrong, I did. But, I honestly thought it was b/c of his health. I know that he “missed me/us” he told me almost everyday, I missed “us” too, but I really did take that as he meant it. I assumed incorrectly that he understood that I was being a mother to our baby and that he knew as the baby got older it would get easier. I assumed that he understood why I couldn’t be there for him as I was before b/c I was busy with the baby. I didn’t use the baby as an excuse, it was just a fact. He wasn’t there emotionally to help with the baby as he was dealing with his health issues. Medication that made him go to sleep by 7:00 each night and other medication that increased his depression. Bad side-effects you name it.

 

So now, when something seems a little “off” I am thinking “we” are off and I immediately want to fix it before it becomes something bigger. I’m afraid that if we ever did get to where we were before that I would miss it. And, as I sit here typing this realize how stupid that is. It isn’t something that I could miss at this point in our lives and now that I know exactly what it was. It wasn’t something that happened overnight, it took two years to get to that point where he thought he wanted out. Obviously I need to relax a lot more than I have been. You’ve said it before Sami that I have a H who loves me and I need to just sit back and enjoy it and let all this other stuff go. Thanks for bringing me back into check.

 

MC/IC - neither. He isn’t one to talk to other people about anything personal. He only talks about present tense type stuff and general information. I on the other hand love to talk to people and wouldn’t have a problem with either, but since he would, will go with the belief that it would make it harder for him to move on if we continued to talk about it. When the whole issue is brought up he feels as if I am rubbing his face in it trying to make him feel guilty. Guilt becomes anger at himself. To continue to talk about it in any context would only get the same feeling. Two comments he made last night seems like something you would say ... “stop hitting the rewind button and hit fast forward when you accidentally do. Push play and lets go one with our life.” and, “We’re happy, let’s not keep picking at something that is not even important or a part of our lives anymore. It’s inconsequential. If you leave it alone it will go away, if you keep picking at it the scab will just stay there.”

[Sami_D]

Do you think individual counselling would help..? It's all very well for him to say hit FF... but is that OK with you..? Maybe it's not about him and his A... maybe it's something deeper for you (maybe, who knows?)...

 

Are you happy, or are you settling, and thinking it's ok as long as he's not seeing someone on the side, as long as you can deal with what he's done..? YOU have a right to happiness and feeling good about yourself and your relationship.

 

And I just don't get that impression that you are. Don't force yourself to feel OK because nothing bad is happening... maybe there are things you need to face up to or deal with.

 

I don't know... just want you to be happy and ok and not worried about this any longer. (prolly projecting or something)

[StrivingtoSucceed]

While I’m open to IC I just don’t know where it would take me. I went to IC during my first marriage and immediately after I ended it for about six months, so for a total of about 1 year. For the most part I really think what I got out of it is about the same as what I get out of LS. Lots of ideas and suggestions. Some work, some don’t. Not just suggestions from my particular threads, but from reading other threads as well.

 

I did bring up the fact last night that it is easy for him to hit FF b/c he is the one that did the hurting, so it is easier for him to forget. But since I am the one that received the hurt (and I was quick to point out I understand he was hurting too ... he understood what I meant) it is a lot harder for me to forget.

 

I am happy and don’t feel that I’ve settled. I’m not happy with what happened, but who would be? In one way, I am happy that it happened as it brought us back to reality and made us both realize that marriage isn’t something that just happens, you have to continually work at it. Maybe I’ve forgiven, but haven’t fully gotten over it. Is that even possible?

 

If I understand you right, you are suggesting that I need to be more patient with myself by not forcing myself to be o.k. with it just b/c it isn’t happening now. I don’t think I’m doing that b/c I refuse to accept it as being o.k. It wasn’t o.k. and will never be acceptable to me. But, you are right ... there is something there and when I re-read the first part of this paragraph I think I’m touching it, but can’t seem to grasp the picture yet.

 

It is deeper than knowing that he isn’t seeing someone on the side as I know you are aware. He has to make me happy as a person and an individual in order for it to work, just as I do him. He does do that and he lets me know that I do that for him as well.

 

You are right that I don’t feel good about myself in a way. I was there for awhile when I started back up at the gym. Then last month due to my travel schedule I just stopped. And, I do feel the difference and it makes me less confident. One of his major needs is an attractive spouse ... which to him translates to a little bit more than skinny. I’m not overweight by any means ... I’m 5'6" and weight 150 on a good day, 158 on a bad day and wear size 10 clothes. My ideal would be 140/148, size 8. His ideal would be 120/138, size 4 ... not going to happen. But, if I can get to MY ideal I would feel better and would be able to project that. When I feel better I don’t even think about what happened as I know that I’ll be o.k. no matter what. It is when I don’t have that confidence that I realize I get stressed out and start feeling insecure again. Hmm. I think that is telling me I need to start bringing my gym bag.

 

I don't know... just want you to be happy and ok and not worried about this any longer. (prolly projecting or something)

 

I would love to not be worried about this any longer, or more significantly, not have "bad" days affect me as it is obviously doing. I know nothing is there. I know nothing will happen. I know him. But I can’t seem to shake that feeling of ... not knowing what his feelings were when I thought I knew. That feeling of thinking you know it all, and then finding out that you really knew nothing at all. I knew him. I know him. How did I miss that period in time when the truth and honesty slipped through the cracks? How did I not care to see that period in time when he was telling me over and over that he missed me/us. Could this be the root of my problem? How did I miss it? I'm an anal person, I am a perfectionist ... how did I miss it in my own marriage? Maybe that is what I need to learn to let go?

 

What do you mean by prolly projecting?

[Sami_D]

I tried to pick and isolate something positive or significant from your post... and all I see is a sea of nothingness and no interest.

 

Do you love him? Why? Is this a M going ahead because of something positive, or nothing negative, or what..?

 

All I see is negatives. Do you actually LOVE your husband?

[StrivingtoSucceed]

Maybe the sea of nothingness and no interest is there because there really isn’t anything there and I am, in fact, making a mountain out of a mole-hill? Something for me to think on.

 

Something you said in your current thread caught my eye. You want a strong man, but don’t know if they exist.

 

The one thing that has bothered me since this began is this ... I thought I knew the man I married. I thought I knew everything about him. I thought he was the strongest man in the world. He was above all others in my life. Then he told me he didn’t know what he wanted anymore as he thought he wanted someone else and that person would make him happy. Then he fell and I thought I didn’t even know him at all.

 

But in the end, I did know him. He did the right thing (for him/for me/for us). He pulled himself together in his confusion and realized that he had to make himself happy. He realized another person can’t make him happy, you have to be happy with yourself and accept yourself as you are in order to be happy. He did that. It was hard. He is the man I thought he was b/c he was strong enough to do what he needed to do to be happy for himself.

 

Is he back above all others in my life. I’d like to say he is right back to where he was 10 feet above all others ... but he isn’t. It isn’t his fault in the least. It is because I put him on a pedestal thinking he could never do anything wrong. I never thought he would ever make a mistake. That was my mistake. He is above all others again, but now I realize he is human and we all make mistakes and he is only about five feet above all others instead of the 10.

 

I do love him for so many reasons. I love him because of the way he looks at me, the way he touches me, the way we communicate, the way we have fun together, the way that he makes me feel. The little things he does ... messages on the mirror as I get out of the shower, painting my toe nails just because, ordering something for dinner that he knows I like because I always end up eating off his plate b/c his looks better. Taking my car and cleaning it and dropping it off for me at work with flowers in it. Our shared hobbies, likes and dislikes. The consideration that he gives me.

 

We are going forward for the positives. You are right, I am concentrating on this one negative and he is right I’m not allowing us to move forward if I continue to hit the back button. I must stop that.

 

Strong men do exist, sometimes they just have to have a little help and understanding along the way.

[silktricks]

Hi Striving - good to hear/read you. I'm glad you've gotten past the rough spot in the road. Sometimes these men who have EA's seem a little on the dense side don't they? First they convince themselves they're not doing anything wrong (after all there's nothing physical), then when they stop it they act like neither the wife or the OW should have any fall-out from it, after all it's over isn't it? What numbskulls.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to add my 2-bits. Not wanting confrontations, though natural, doesn't seem to work in the long-run. The reason my H and I had problems to begin with was due to the fact that neither one of us wanted confrontations. Since he told me about the EA we've both made sure that we confront ALL of our issues. Any time either of us senses something "off" we immediately talk it out. Sometimes, I've got to admit, this has almost driven both of us crazy - and there was a great deal that I felt a need to talk about that he really wanted to avoid discussing. His embarrassment and shame at actually seeing and dealing with my pain was almost more than he could bear - but tough cookies, he brought it on himself.

 

I'm glad that your H was able to explain to you what he meant, and that it made sense. I'm afraid that I would have gone over the same edge you did if my H said those words.

 

I'm glad you're happy and in love again (still). I'll send you all the good vibes I can. . .

 

(I wanted to ask you, though - why are you posting on this forum instead of the infidelity one?)

[Sami_D]

He is above all others again, but now I realize he is human and we all make mistakes and he is only about five feet above all others instead of the 10.

 

That's so great. It almost sounds like he deserves you

[Ladyjane14]

As a fellow EA survivor, I understand the sense of emotional insecurity that pervades the return to 'normalcy'.

 

At some point in the reconcilliation process, the relationship must be normalized again. A new status quo is reached, a new day-to-day routine....without all the drama of the EA.

 

But it's scary, because the old routine wasn't cutting it. Who wants to EVER go back to something that wasn't working?

 

I had a couple of good talks with my husband after our marriage crisis in which I made him aware of my fears regarding the "old pattern". We had suffered through some pretty bad emotional distancing for half of our 20+ year marriage. I didn't want to go back to that.

 

In our discussion, I referred to that as being in "the bad place". I'm not willing to live in 'the bad place' anymore. I experienced a sense of panic at times when I noticed it, and I've made him aware of these feelings.

 

These days, when old patterns occasionally crop up, I nip them in the bud. I can only control ME, so I make sure I talk to him about it. This is in-line with the agreement we've made together. And I make sure that I LISTEN with an open mind if he notices the pattern and wants to talk.

 

Sometimes a WS wants to put their affair in the past and leave it there. They don't want to talk about it. Often, they feel like their spouse will never 'get over it'. But like any other agreement you make together, you can implement POJA (see marriagebuilders) for some rules that will make this kind of communication a positive experience for both of you.

 

You're going to continue to hear things that you don't want to hear from your husband from time to time. If you can get him to share his emotions with you in a truthful way, he's going to occasionally say things that freak you out. That's okay. What's more important is that you both have 'a soft place to fall' in each other, that you're creating a safe harbour for thoughts and emotions.

 

I think it's a GOOD thing actually that he shared this with you. He trusted you with it, and more importantly....he didn't act on it. That's good stuff!