target-d Posted April 6, 2006 Posted April 6, 2006 All you OW and OM out there, I'd like you to think about this. Each and everyone of you knows that the MM or MW you are in a relationship with is a liar. Each one of them is lying to their spouse by word and action each and every day. (unless it's an open marriage, but most of the posters here don't seem to be in that type of relationship.) Why are you so surprised when you find out you are being lied to as well? Plus, why do you still insist on believing the some of the lies so long after the affair is over. I've read over and over again how "he loved me but couldn't leave his family, couldn't leave his children, couldn't upset his finances, etc, etc, etc." but it's always "He loved me.. he loved me.." Having been on all sides of this particular equation, I'd like to say, the odds are that he didn't love you. If he loved you, he'd be with you not his wife. (I'm not saying that he loved his wife either, though you need to face the fact that it's very possible that he did/does.) When I was a MW (although I wasn't married at the time I was in a fully committed relationship with the man I eventually married.) I didn't love the OM - I loved the excitement - I loved the feeling special. I loved the attention he paid to me. but him? no, I didn't really even like him. He was a means to an end, not the end in itself. The end was feeling special - it was about me, not about him. My H, who had an EA few years ago said the same thing when his was over (and no, I didn't catch him. He ended it, then told me about it later.) You aren't going to get well as long as you hang onto either the love or the hate, but especially the hate. Let it go. He lied - so he lied. Maybe that makes him a bad person, maybe it just makes him a normal one. If you need to hate him to let go, make sure it's just a little while. People who have been out of these relationships for years and are still in the middle of hating, you're only hurting yourself. Forgive yourself for being gullible, we're all gullible at times. Holding onto the hate may keep yourself from getting hurt again, but is losing out on the wonders of life worth it? Let it go.
lovernotafighter Posted April 6, 2006 Posted April 6, 2006 I don't hate anyone..thats not in me to feel that way. I did allow myself to fall in love with my MM..that is my fault. I would like to think he didn't lie to me when it was not nessiary to do so..but I'm also not completly shocked either. you are lucky to not let your feelings get involved with your MM. some of us were not so lucky. I'm here cause I know better yet because of my feelings I haven't got a hold on ,I'm in pain. he may or may not love me..who knows,but my feelings are genuine,thats a sad fact and I am trying to figure a way out it..it's just taking me time. such is life I suppose.
whichwayisup Posted April 6, 2006 Posted April 6, 2006 I would like to think he didn't lie to me when it was not nessiary to do so..but I'm also not completly shocked either. The MM lied to his wife, his family, his friends, even children if he had any. Why on earth would he NOT lie to his OW too?
Sami_D Posted April 6, 2006 Posted April 6, 2006 When I was a MW (although I wasn't married at the time I was in a fully committed relationship with the man I eventually married.) I didn't love the OM - I loved the excitement - I loved the feeling special. I loved the attention he paid to me. but him? no, I didn't really even like him. He was a means to an end, not the end in itself. The end was feeling special - it was about me, not about him. Not all people who have affairs are like you. You're (or were) what people call a 'cake eater'... out for what you can get, and selfish at bottom. There are charming forums I've visited where people like this go to discuss not getting caught, and how to have it all, using everyone in their life. I've felt sick just reading it. (anyone wants the url, pm me... I'm not going to advertise the place) But as I said, not all married people having affairs are like that. Not all MM who have affairs want it to be that way. And not all of them lie to the OW and use them like a piece of rubbish. I think I'd hate to get to a state in my life when I believe all people operate from the same selfish, self-serving and miserable angle that you did.
Author target-d Posted April 6, 2006 Author Posted April 6, 2006 Not all people who have affairs are like you. You're (or were) what people call a 'cake eater'... out for what you can get, and selfish at bottom. Since you don't know me and I don't know you, it's easy for you to make assumptions based on almost no information. I know that you are in the middle of a hard time, so I forgive you your assumptions and your rudeness. When I was in the middle of the situation, I didn't know what I know now. Looking at the past from a distance it's far easier to see with clarity. I know now that the man I was involved with was an excuse for me to not face my own pain and my own issues. I didn't know it then. It's easy to call people names and put them in little judgemental boxes. That trivializes both the people and the words they speak. But as I said, not all married people having affairs are like that. Not all MM who have affairs want it to be that way. And not all of them lie to the OW and use them like a piece of rubbish. All married people who are having affairs are liars. That was the point of what I was saying. ALL OF THEM. NOT A SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS AN AFFAIR TELLS THE TRUTH!!! They lie. They lie to their SO. They lie to their children, they lie to the OW and they lie to themselves. They lie. Now, that doesn't make them bad people. It makes them people in pain, people confused. It doesn't mean that some of them won't leave their wives to be with the OW. It doesn't mean that some of them won't quit the affair because of their own conscience. It doesn't mean that some of them won't keep the affair going at all costs. It doesn't mean anything other than the fact that they are liars at the time of the affair. It also doesn't mean that they have always been or will always be liars. I think I'd hate to get to a state in my life when I believe all people operate from the same selfish, self-serving and miserable angle that you did. I've read a number of your posts. I'd love to meet you in a few years and hear what you think of the things you have said.
Sami_D Posted April 6, 2006 Posted April 6, 2006 It's easy to call people names and put them in little judgemental boxes. That trivializes both the people and the words they speak. All married people who are having affairs are liars. That was the point of what I was saying. ALL OF THEM. NOT A SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS AN AFFAIR TELLS THE TRUTH!!! Um... yes. You've told us how you felt about your OM. You can't speak for everyone who ever had an affair. What you're doing is what you claim I'm doing.. putting everyone in little boxes and trivialising them. Speak for yourself. It's the only person you can speak for.
Author target-d Posted April 6, 2006 Author Posted April 6, 2006 Um... yes. ummm... no ---- does your MM's wife know about his affair with you? I didn't think so. ergo he lies. He may not lie to you. But he does lie.
erika2610 Posted April 6, 2006 Posted April 6, 2006 Not all people who have affairs are like you. You're (or were) what people call a 'cake eater'... out for what you can get, and selfish at bottom. There are charming forums I've visited where people like this go to discuss not getting caught, and how to have it all, using everyone in their life. I've felt sick just reading it. (anyone wants the url, pm me... I'm not going to advertise the place) But as I said, not all married people having affairs are like that. Not all MM who have affairs want it to be that way. And not all of them lie to the OW and use them like a piece of rubbish. I think I'd hate to get to a state in my life when I believe all people operate from the same selfish, self-serving and miserable angle that you did. If ya think about it, most OW are selfish too.. so it's not really fair to judge somebody calling them 'selfish', when that's what you are.
silktricks Posted April 6, 2006 Posted April 6, 2006 If ya think about it, most OW are selfish too.. so it's not really fair to judge somebody calling them 'selfish', when that's what you are. Yeah Erika!!
erika2610 Posted April 6, 2006 Posted April 6, 2006 Yeah Erika!! And I'm an ex-OW, so I meant no offense by that.
silktricks Posted April 6, 2006 Posted April 6, 2006 And I'm an ex-OW, so I meant no offense by that. I know - we're all selfish at times. It seems so important for all of us to admit it.
blind_otter Posted April 6, 2006 Posted April 6, 2006 Not all people who have affairs are like you. You're (or were) what people call a 'cake eater'... out for what you can get, and selfish at bottom. There are charming forums I've visited where people like this go to discuss not getting caught, and how to have it all, using everyone in their life. I've felt sick just reading it. (anyone wants the url, pm me... I'm not going to advertise the place) But as I said, not all married people having affairs are like that. Not all MM who have affairs want it to be that way. And not all of them lie to the OW and use them like a piece of rubbish. I think I'd hate to get to a state in my life when I believe all people operate from the same selfish, self-serving and miserable angle that you did. Wait, just for clarification, how does this mean that some MM aren't liars? I'm just saaaaaaaying. If you are with a married man whose wide does not know he is having an affair, then he lies, and AFAIK, someone who can internalize something with such a high degree of cognitive dissonance will most likely use this as their default coping mechanism. Meaning, they will ie to placate every single person they feel is important to hold on to. So, this isn't a judgement on whether the emotion itself is authentic.
KnowHowLoveFeels Posted April 6, 2006 Posted April 6, 2006 I don't hate anyone..thats not in me to feel that way. I did allow myself to fall in love with my MM..that is my fault. I would like to think he didn't lie to me when it was not nessiary to do so..but I'm also not completly shocked either. you are lucky to not let your feelings get involved with your MM. some of us were not so lucky. I'm here cause I know better yet because of my feelings I haven't got a hold on ,I'm in pain. he may or may not love me..who knows,but my feelings are genuine,thats a sad fact and I am trying to figure a way out it..it's just taking me time. such is life I suppose. Thanks for putting my feelings into words... yet again! I dealing with so much internal fighting right now - it's almost unbearable. My heart says one thing, my brain says another. Geez - can't they just both shut up? I don't want to believe that my MM loves me - because he probably never did. Only he will know for sure. I don't want to believe that he was using me either. What the heck - I can't be that easy! And if I ask him, I know that he'd only give me vague answer that doesn't have any meaning by itself at all. I am not having a good day either, girls.
lovernotafighter Posted April 6, 2006 Posted April 6, 2006 The MM lied to his wife, his family, his friends, even children if he had any. Why on earth would he NOT lie to his OW too? that's exactly why I said I wouldn't be so shocked...but in my situation WWIU ,I've always told my MM either to try to work things out at home and even told him to let me go to do it and also asked him to quite telling me he plans on leaving his wife when I never ever asked him to do so. until a few weeks ago I haven't ever even entertained the notion especially to him..then I offered him a invitation and he has been really strange ever since...but the only reason I did it was to make him sh*t or get off the pot,sort of speak. you see so when I say unnecessarily lie to me that is what I am referring to...why lie to questions that are not asked? that's just what I don't get...but I am sure theres some twisted man logic in it some where,but it escapes me.
Blind Illusion Posted April 7, 2006 Posted April 7, 2006 Having been on all sides of this particular equation, I'd like to say, the odds are that he didn't love you. If he loved you, he'd be with you not his wife. (I'm not saying that he loved his wife either, though you need to face the fact that it's very possible that he did/does.) People can love more than one person especially if it's in different ways. It sounds like you were more in love with the feeling than the man when you speak of your own experience. Perhaps that filled a need for you emotionally at that particular time in your life. I can't really identify though. People still believe some of the lies, because not EVERYTHING that comes out of someone's mouth is a prevarication.
erika2610 Posted April 7, 2006 Posted April 7, 2006 People can love more than one person especially if it's in different ways. It sounds like you were more in love with the feeling than the man when you speak of your own experience. Perhaps that filled a need for you emotionally at that particular time in your life. I can't really identify though. People still believe some of the lies, because not EVERYTHING that comes out of someone's mouth is a prevarication. Nobody said EVERYTHING they say is a lie. But you have to admit, looking around these boards, most MM told the OW the same thing... 'My W is a bitch, I'm just there for the kids (if there are kids).. we don't even sleep in the same roon together anymore, we don't have sex. Blah blah blah. Now they can't ALL be going through the same thing can they?
Author target-d Posted April 7, 2006 Author Posted April 7, 2006 People can love more than one person especially if it's in different ways. People can absolutely love more than one person. The problem is that when a person marries they make a promise. That promise is to love that one person in a special more significant and singular way then they love anyone else. Having an affair violates the promise they made. It sounds like you were more in love with the feeling than the man when you speak of your own experience. Perhaps that filled a need for you emotionally at that particular time in your life. I can't really identify though. I was in love with the feeling of being made to feel special. It sounds very similar to what many of the OW here say about how the MM make/made them feel. As I've said, I've been on every side of this particular equation, and have experience on all sides. I'm not at all proud of that fact, but it is a fact. I understand that many people will not be able to identify with me. That's OK. I gave the example to provide food for thought. People still believe some of the lies, because not EVERYTHING that comes out of someone's mouth is a prevarication. I don't believe that I said that it was, and of course it is not. But a person who is trying hard to balance opposing forces (such as two women who want him) will be lying a good portion of the time. The odds are very great that he is lying to both of the women, not just one of them. As I said in the beginning, why the surprise? An OW knows the man is lying to his wife. Why be so terribly surprised when finding out he's lying to you too? And why so insulted at his lies to you, when it's just A-OK that he lie to someone else? It's just such a hypocritical way to address life. The big thing, in my opinion is to learn from it, get past it and move on. I read a post from someone here awhile ago who was obviously still in agony over having been an OW, and that's just so sad. It's a time in her life that she can use to grow with - use it as education so that she doesn't make the same mistake again. I promise, with life comes mistakes. Some of us make real doozies. I regret bitterly some of the bad mistakes I've made, but only because of the pain they caused to others, no longer because of the pain they caused myself. The pain they caused me also caused me to grow, and I'm glad I had that chance.
zarathustra Posted April 7, 2006 Posted April 7, 2006 I didn't fall in love with the xMM because he made me feel special. We are raised very similarly even though were are from a different generation. So he had the capacity to understand me when I tell him how I feel about certain things in life or how I percieve certain things. Communication was easy, conversation was easy. Everything was flowing easily. I cared about him as a friend at first. I thought, great I found someone who I wants to understand me and wants to take the time to. I didn't see his interest as making me more special or feel special. I was just happy to have him in my life and that he was making himself available to me.
RecordProducer Posted April 8, 2006 Posted April 8, 2006 MAny MM or those in committed relationships do fall in love with their mistresses. I've heard men admitting they were madly in love with the OW.
Blind Illusion Posted April 8, 2006 Posted April 8, 2006 I didn't fall in love with the xMM because he made me feel special. Same here. I might have been attracted to him initially for that reason but the love developed because of who he is.
Ladyjane14 Posted April 8, 2006 Posted April 8, 2006 Communication was easy, conversation was easy. Everything was flowing easily. "The path of least resistance and least trouble is a rut already made. It requires troublesome work to undertake the alternation of old beliefs." -John Dewey
Guest Posted April 8, 2006 Posted April 8, 2006 MAny MM or those in committed relationships do fall in love with their mistresses. I've heard men admitting they were madly in love with the OW. madly in love or just madly in lust? whenever the word mad is used in conjunction with the word love I figure that love isn't really the accurate word to be used.
zarathustra Posted April 8, 2006 Posted April 8, 2006 "The path of least resistance and least trouble is a rut already made. It requires troublesome work to undertake the alternation of old beliefs." -John Dewey thanks for the quote LJ. I've not read that one before.
lovernotafighter Posted April 9, 2006 Posted April 9, 2006 madly in love or just madly in lust? whenever the word mad is used in conjunction with the word love I figure that love isn't really the accurate word to be used. perhaps that is how things started up for me & MM but theres been to much time and struggle and everything else to say at this point it is anything other than love. as much as I want to kick him in the b*lls half the time I know this is the hardest thing he and I ever have done and to have what we do,to maintain it has been work and effort on both parts.
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