Hypocrites vs Scumbags. Drugs, am I too unbending?

[witabix]

New gf, going well for the most part. We have really hit it off.

 

Except, there is one incident from last weekend that has me thinking. Would be interesting to hear your views.

 

I was working on a program and she said she was going out for a drink. Cool.

 

She texted me saying she was going to another bar to meet a friend, I know him a little, they have been friends for a long time and had a FWB set up a long time ago. Still cool, I trust her with this guy. And I trust him with her. Cool.

 

I get more texts, all gushy and nice stuff. Cool.

 

I go out to my local bar when I finish, pretty late, for the last 45 minutes. Another of her friends is there. He asks if we are still together, the fashion in which he asked made me ask him why he asked that. He said "Because I know *******".

 

I know full well he fancies her madly, so I put it down to jealousy and sour grapes. Laughed at him and carried on with the night.

 

She comes down a little later and tells me she was doing poppers with her friends in the other bar. Now I know a little bit about this stuff, no experience, but I know the connotations of such drugs. Alarm bells start to ring.

 

I am also aware of the type of bar this is, it is one I will not go into, it is in my parlance, full of scumbags. Imagine the Cantina in Star Wars without the music. Or the Slaughtered Pig in American Werewolf in London.

 

Then as we leave, the friend with the wierd comment comes over and hugs her, I hear him asking her if she is happy. I smiled inside at this one. She hugs him back and kisses the side of his head.

 

When we got home I asked her to talk.

 

I related the 'friends' comment, and how I felt about the doing of such drugs, and the august premises that would allow its less than salubrious denizens to behave in such a fashion (Hypocritical? Maybe, I enjoy the occasional flirt with Mary Jane, in the privacy of my own home, with my SO).

 

It went on for a little while, I asked her if she saw how the juxtaposition of comments and actions would cause me to question exactly what is happening here.

 

She said she did.

 

She was furious with her 'friend' for that comment. She said that he expected her to get with him when she split from her previous bf. Called him and left a message on his VM telling him that if she ever saw or heard from him again it would be too soon. I was not present when this happened.

 

I told her unequivocally that it was either me or drugs, that is when she called me a hypocrite. I can see her point in this, in some way. I take a different view of an occasional joint at home with doing nitrates in a public bar. I wasn't budging though.

 

She told me she was also offered speed and they suggested that they go on to a night club, but she decided that she would rather be with me.

 

We finished the discussion the next afternoon.

 

I stated again that if she thought that this behaviur was acceptable then that was her decision, and I understand that many, many people do. I do not.

 

I told her that IMO friends do not entice you into such risky behaviours. that I do not, and never will, find that acceptable. That these people were morons, unable to behave in a responsible fashion.

 

She said they were her friends, and was clearly preparing to defend them against my impending attack.

 

So I attacked. How has this worked for you in the past? Drug taking morons are your friends? You are so much better than that, so much better it is not true. You are smart, beautiful, so much more than this behaviour says to me. If you want this then I am gone, now, immediately. I do not need a gf who does this, no way, not ever.

 

She said that in a choice like that she chooses me. That she didn't realise I felt that way about it. Which is fair because we had never had that discussion. Although I knew of her past drug taking, I had assumed it was over.

 

She said that she wasn't all that bothered by it anyway and would like to give it up. She has no addiction that I can discern. She certainly hasn't done anything in the last few weeks.

 

Am I being too hypocritical here?

 

Is it fair to force someone to make such a choice?

[blind_otter]

AFAIK poppers and whippits aren't addictive.

 

I wouldn't call it a choice, since those things are not hella addictive. You stated your preferences (although I personally think the whole "poppers are evil" is a little overboard. Hell, she turned down the speed. IME, there is a difference between hard and soft drugs.)

 

But why is pot OK and poppers aren't? They're both drugs, both alter your perception of reality, and reduce inhibitions, and produce euphoria. I'd say pot was more addictive than poppers any day of the week. The high with poppers is self-limiting. I'm just wondering how you reached that conclusion for yourself.

[littlekitty]

Wit, I love your posts, you are insightful and inspiring. I too love a little MJ at home.

 

I have to be honest, there's a hint of hypocrisy in your post.

 

It's fine to make it clear that you have no wish to date someone who is out clubbing and doing class A drugs etc, it's a little harsh to tell her to leave off everything, while you sit at home having a joint?

 

I do not like Class A drugs. If my SO was out at night doing them, I wouldn't really have wanted to date him. However, if on the odd occasion, not in my presence, he wants to do something with the boys, then considering I like the MJ, I can't really say he must not do it can I?

 

It's a hard place to be in Wit. I know my SO hasn't touched anything in the year we've been together, but I could say NO if he really wanted to. But I'd also rather he never touched hard drugs.

 

There's a difference between smoking MJ at home and doing drugs in a club, I agree 100%.

 

Hmmm no clear cut answer here to me? You weren't wrong, I'd feel the same. But it's easy to point the 'hypocrisy' finger here isn't it?!!

[littlekitty]

But why is pot OK and poppers aren't? They're both drugs, both alter your perception of reality, and reduce inhibitions, and produce euphoria. I'd say pot was more addictive than poppers any day of the week. The high with poppers is self-limiting. I'm just wondering how you reached that conclusion for yourself.

 

A good point. I've sort of assumed (which you should never do!!) that she has probably been going out and doing the speed etc on other occassions.

 

If it's just the poppers... I'd say the same as you.

[witabix]

I realise n-nitrates are not addictive. It is more the reason why poppers are used, they are considered sexual enhancement drugs, and I agree it is wierd even to me why I take a view like this. Twisted morals/hypocrisy, I am not immune to these I know.

 

And just to clarify I do not do MJ/alchohol at home alone, that is just too sad. I enjoy maybe three or four joints a year, usually to help with insomnia.

 

I think it is a view of mine that, and perhaps totally incorrectly I accept, that certain behaviours lead to situations becoming out of control. I have had too many friends die from drug use.

 

To watch them has crucified me over the years. Really good kind people destroying themselves, and always saying "Its only a bit of fun", "I am in control, don't worry".

 

Then you are at their funeral.

 

I said all this, and was called melodramatic. But it really isn't melodrama, I have lived it.

[blind_otter]

I realise n-nitrates are not addictive. It is more the reason why poppers are used, they are considered sexual enhancement drugs, and I agree it is wierd even to me why I take a view like this. Twisted morals/hypocrisy, I am not immune to these I know.

 

And just to clarify I do not do MJ/alchohol at home alone, that is just too sad. I enjoy maybe three or four joints a year, usually to help with insomnia.

 

I think it is a view of mine that, and perhaps totally incorrectly I accept, that certain behaviours lead to situations becoming out of control. I have had too many friends die from drug use.

 

To watch them has crucified me over the years. Really good kind people destroying themselves, and always saying "Its only a bit of fun", "I am in control, don't worry".

 

Then you are at their funeral.

 

I said all this, and was called melodramatic. But it really isn't melodrama, I have lived it.

 

 

No offense, wit, but it's one thing to see your friends do it and another to experience it yourself. I've been sober for only 4 months. One of my closest friends and an ex-lover died of a heart attack after slashing his body with a razor all over, and dragging his body into the attic to die. He was shooting up coke and had a paranoid freak out. I was not allowed to attend his funeral because I was one of the people he used with.

 

He was 24.

 

And you didn't answer my question.

[witabix]

I wasn't aware I had an answer............

[blind_otter]

I wasn't aware I had an answer............

 

Ok.

 

So you make a statement but don't know why you make it or what reasoning goes into it?

[witabix]

Oh, and no offense taken.

 

I do not feel the need to experience this, why would I?

 

I have seen what it does to other people, and I do not wish to go there. I have enough of a self destructive streak as it is, I do not need anymore problems.

 

Try to re-phrase the question and I will try answer.....

[blind_otter]

Why is pot ok and poppers aren't? To you.

[bab]

witabix--

I don't think you are being unreasonable. Drugs are one of those categories that if it makes you uncomfortable, then your s/o should respect that. I think you may have gone a bit overboard telling her that her friends weren't real friends. But asking her not to do drugs in a club is reasonable.

 

If you are truely worried about being a hypocrite, then maybe you should volunteer to keep MJ out of your lives as well. Tit for tat.

[whichwayisup]

I think time will tell ... Right now she could tell you one thing (tell you what you want to hear) and do the opposite.

 

Trust her until she gives you reason not to.

[witabix]

Ok, thats straight enough.

 

I do not think poppers are not ok, it is the context in which they are usually taken that troubles me. They are known as primarily sex enhancing drugs. Ergo someone who goes out with amy-nitrates, barring an 18th century heart defect, is IMO, and limited experience, probably going to try to use them for this purpose.

 

Again I will stress my ignorance of this area.

 

It also puzzles me that someone would actually want to relax smooth muscles and increase oxygenated blood flow to the brain whilst sitting in a bar having a drink, an instant high? Self limiting? Only in as much as your head will pound off your shoulders if you do too much.

 

As I said previously I use MJ to relieve insomnia, less addictive than sleeping tabs, and I can really feel relaxed and sleep well afterwards. So my use of pot is aimed at a problem, that it successfully solves for me.

 

It is not aimed at making me feel happy or lowering my inhibitions, or making me a cool person to be around.

 

Is this any clearer?

[blind_otter]

Ok, thats straight enough.

 

I do not think poppers are not ok, it is the context in which they are usually taken that troubles me. They are known as primarily sex enhancing drugs. Ergo someone who goes out with amy-nitrates, barring an 18th century heart defect, is IMO, and limited experience, probably going to try to use them for this purpose.

 

Again I will stress my ignorance of this area.

 

It also puzzles me that someone would actually want to relax smooth muscles and increase oxygenated blood flow to the brain whilst sitting in a bar having a drink, an instant high? Self limiting? Only in as much as your head will pound off your shoulders if you do too much.

 

As I said previously I use MJ to relieve insomnia, less addictive than sleeping tabs, and I can really feel relaxed and sleep well afterwards. So my use of pot is aimed at a problem, that it successfully solves for me.

 

It is not aimed at making me feel happy or lowering my inhibitions, or making me a cool person to be around.

 

Is this any clearer?

 

 

Yeah.

 

I never did poppers for sexual reasons. The only people I know who do this are...er...gay men. We did them for a brief, euphoric high.

 

Does she know this is why you smoke weed? In her mind there may be no difference, just because you use it for a specific purpose. I doubt she would call you a hypocrite just to be spiteful. Unless she's a bitch.

 

It's a mistake to assume that people are always on the same moral or philosophical page.

[witabix]

I think time will tell ... Right now she could tell you one thing (tell you what you want to hear) and do the opposite.

 

Trust her until she gives you reason not to.

 

 

Yes WWIU, you are, as always, on the same page. Exactly what I intend to do.

 

Give the trust, its cooler that way, let the actions decide how right or wrong you are.

[witabix]

Yeah.

 

I never did poppers for sexual reasons. The only people I know who do this are...er...gay men. We did them for a brief, euphoric high.

 

Does she know this is why you smoke weed? In her mind there may be no difference, just because you use it for a specific purpose. I doubt she would call you a hypocrite just to be spiteful. Unless she's a bitch.

 

It's a mistake to assume that people are always on the same moral or philosophical page.

 

Yeah it started in the gay community, but if taken just before orgasm it heightens the experience for both sexes. Never thought I needed to make it any better!

 

I explained why I took pot after the comment. Yes it is a mistake to assume such things. But I think my view stems from my philosophical view, I have no morals on this issue. Drugs and its users are neither moral nor immoral, it is a philosophical choice, a life choice. One that I have made, and one that I will stick to.

 

It does mean for me that I could never be with a drug user, one who uses drugs to enhance their social skills, or increase the fun they think they are having. Try being straight around coke or pot heads, thay are the most boring inane people you could meet.

 

I would rather have my teeth filed down to stumps.

[alphamale]

I told her unequivocally that it was either me or drugs,

the drugs will win out every time buddy

[blind_otter]

Well I can't be around them because I am a recovering addict. No, you shouldn't be with someone who uses, but IME it's not a philosophical thing for most people who use. It's a crutch, because there's something wrong with their fundamental programming.

 

I don't look down on them from a high horse, being that I am one of them. I don't think they're boring, or less than me. I find it hard to think of anyone in those terms.

 

It's impossible to make it a philosophical choice, for many people.

[witabix]

witabix--

I don't think you are being unreasonable. Drugs are one of those categories that if it makes you uncomfortable, then your s/o should respect that. I think you may have gone a bit overboard telling her that her friends weren't real friends. But asking her not to do drugs in a club is reasonable.

 

If you are truely worried about being a hypocrite, then maybe you should volunteer to keep MJ out of your lives as well. Tit for tat.

 

Yes, I am kind of a bit squirmy inside with the comment I made about that myself. Doesn't seem totally cool now, but it was said with good intentions, although it was a crap comment to make in hindsight.

 

Still I will wait and see the outcome, she seems very happy at the moment, and I recall the look on her face when I came out with all of that. When I finished she looked, well kind of nervously pleased, I am not sure what the look meant. Still wondering about it.

 

All I really said was that she was above this, that she was worth more, that she should show herself more respect. Well that was what I was trying to say anyway.

 

I can only be me, whatever happens, and somehow I don't feel the need the need to apologise to anyone for that.

[Cecelius]

I stopped reading for content after I got to the part where she was out for the evening with a guy she used to bang.

 

If it's not against your program, then so be it, but in my opinion, while guy friends are okay, dates are not and your girl shouldn't be hanging out with guys whose rods she used to polish. Why would you when there are so many girls who won't push that envelope?

 

I must be honest, and possibly because I'm older than the age at which people do recreational drugs, but there is a difference between the matters you described -- just as there is a difference between beer and booze.

 

If it's not your cup, then I say send her packing -- there are too many dudes out there who have an interest and a history, and you are smack in the middle of their drama. Too many girls in the world to attach yourself to someone who hangs/talks/is involved with that many guys.

[witabix]

the drugs will win out every time buddy

 

 

Alpha, that is already in my head, but thanks for putting it on here my friend, cool.

 

I will let you know how this pans out. Should be interesting.......

[blind_otter]

I dunno, man. I knew this chick who had a kid and was shooting coke. I confronted her once and I said, "Who hurt you so bad to make you hate yourself so much?"

 

Said with good intentions. But you know what they say about good intentions. The road to hell is paved with them.

 

She went balistic on me. Never spoke to her again.

[witabix]

I stopped reading for content after I got to the part where she was out for the evening with a guy she used to bang.

 

If it's not against your program, then so be it, but in my opinion, while guy friends are okay, dates are not and your girl shouldn't be hanging out with guys whose rods she used to polish. Why would you when there are so many girls who won't push that envelope?

 

I must be honest, and possibly because I'm older than the age at which people do recreational drugs, but there is a difference between the matters you described -- just as there is a difference between beer and booze.

 

If it's not your cup, then I say send her packing -- there are too many dudes out there who have an interest and a history, and you are smack in the middle of their drama. Too many girls in the world to attach yourself to someone who hangs/talks/is involved with that many guys.

 

 

Good point Cecelius, well made, and this is also in my thoughts at this time. There is the matter of trust, a previous life was had by all, and I do not intend to lock her in a cage. WWIU gets it right for me though.

[alphamale]

I confronted her once and I said, "Who hurt you so bad to make you hate yourself so much?"

...there are some people out there full of self-hatred who were never hurt by anyone except themselves. Self-loathing does not necessary have to be caused by external factors.

[Art_Critic]

I wouldn't call it a choice, since those things are not hella addictive. You stated your preferences (although I personally think the whole "poppers are evil" is a little overboard. Hell, she turned down the speed. IME, there is a difference between hard and soft drugs.)

 

B_O.. I find this statement suprising considering your recovery..

 

Let me straighten you out about something..

 

To an Addict one drug is as bad as the other.. or soft and hard drugs are just as bad to the addict.

 

Remember that addiction is a system of denial that tells you it is okay to continue taking or drinking..

By saying that one drug is okay and another is not you are setting yourself up for a slip.

 

An alcoholic should never drink near beer .. Why ? because it is stroking the Alcoholics system of denial that he can no longer drink beer.

A drink of a real beer is right around the corner.

He is setting himself up for a dlip.. just as you are with your thinking that there are okay drugs to take.

 

 

 

Sorry for the Hijack wit..

I think that if you ask her to give up poppers then you yourself should give up the MJ