Should I finally abandon ship?

[amerikajin]

Some of you may remember there was a really hot chick that I work with who got my attention (started the whole dating thing about three months ago now). We went out about two or three times. On the third date, I tried to kiss her on the lips but she pulled back and it made things uncomfortable for a while. In fact, she started showing less interest and it caused me to go into a bit of a panic. So I suggested that maybe this wasn't going anywhere. When I last wrote about this here, that's where the story ended.

 

It has since picked up again but I now feel like I'm walking on eggshells again - only this time, because we've spent more time together, I am really starting to feel a lot of unease. I feel like I'm starting to develop attachment to this woman but I'm not sure she's entirely on the same page. I feel like I am starting to put myself out there but worry that I may do so for nothing.

 

We have since spent the night at each other's apartment a total of three times, including twice in the past week. However, in roughly that same span we've also had our ups and downs. In fact, last weekend, we got into a bit of an argument. She was basically standing me up for a date which she had already pushed back when I called and asked her where she was, to which she replied with a groggy tone of voice (she had been sleeping). I momentarily lost my temper and asked not so nicely if she was standing me up (not the best move, I know, but I was pissed). I then called her back and said that I had a right to be mad but I should not have said it in the manner in which it was said. We eventually patched it up, and I went over to spend the night with her. No sex in any of these encounters, although we came very close the last time. She has been very slow in that department with me.

 

The things that jump out at me are that she always seems to change whatever plans we set up. She doesn't necessarily cancel them, but she changes them - like I'll suggest a place to go or an activity, and then it'll get changed. She has been ill with a cold the last week or so (we both have), but I don't think that's the real reason the plans get changed. She also prefers to make plans 'on the fly', rather than making plans ahead of time. I don't want to think this, but sometimes, the impression I get is that this relationship ultimately seems to be revolving around her. It's causing me some frustration and at times, that is probably not so easily concealed, which causes occasional tension in our relationship.

 

The last two days I have sensed she is pulling back a little bit. She responds to my calls and texts, but does not really initiate them. Asked her to call me if she wanted to make plans tonight but I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think I'm necessarily out, but I think I'm working with someone who is taking me for granted and I don't know how much longer I should work with this. The upside is, She is an absolute hottie, so honestly, the guy in me is telling me to keep at it. And we do actually have a good time when we are together on our dates, or in bed lying next to each other. It's the communication and peripheral stuff outside of that which is complicating things, I think.

 

Final things to consider...

 

...I told her I was only dating her and nobody else. She heard me but didn't respond, so I am not totally sure she's as committed to me as I am to her, although given her personality, I can't imagine she'd be actually dating anyone else, and her friends haven't given me any indication to believe otherwise. I do know there are tons of guys hitting on her all the time, so there are options at her disposal. Should I have "the talk"? Or is it too early for that?

[destination_unknown]

I think you should just stop calling her, she doesnt seem to be putting much into this. It seems that your doing all the chasing, if you pull back you will find out if she is into it or not.

 

Hate when people continually change plans - ugh.

 

Dont get attached to someone who isnt putting as much into the relationship as you - you will only end up more hurt and walked on.

[amerikajin]

That's basically what my gut is saying.

 

One thing that I forgot to mention is that she's seen me get jealous once or twice. I never said anything to her or reprimanded her or got in her face or anything like that, but there was this one guy who was all over her at work - touching her, even. I couldn't help but be jealous because I was thinking 'How did he get that comfortable with her? Did she invite that or was that just him being overly aggressive?' And since I am not really her boyfriend yet, I didn't think it was really my place to grill her about it. Nevertheless, it was written on my face, I'm sure. I avoided eye contact a time or two.

 

And then a few days ago - and about the time I sense things started to get funny between us again - I may have appeared jealous again. She texted me at the last minute saying she couldn't come out with me and my friends, which actually wasn't a problem with me because it was up in the air when we spoke, and we hadn't really talked about doing anything that night anyway. She said some guy that she works for was helping her move furniture that night. I responded by saying 'No big deal. I will be busy the next night and possibly the two nights after but told her good night. I then called her good night later. I've been playing it cool the whole time but it just seems like she's been testing me the whole time as well.

 

On the upside, the last time we were together, she spent the night at my place. We didn't have sex, but I touched her all over and got her wet. It was a good night, I'd say. That's why I'm wondering what happened. Do you think maybe she's just really uneasy or uptight because of how close we're getting? I don't know whether to push or pull. It's really awkward right now, but I feel like we're moving backwards again now.

[SoleMate]

This is a tough one, because it seems to me you have allowed sex to happen and your emotions to get involved before you really have developed the actual relationship - i.e. the connectedness, trust, understanding and nacceptance of each other's quirks.

 

For example, there are definitely some people who refuse to make plans in advance and stick to them. I can't abide that, but I know that plenty of people are OK with that "spontaneity" or even prefer it. Well...that's one of the things it would be nice to understand before you get too emotionally invested.

 

Do you think maybe she's just really uneasy or uptight because of how close we're getting?

Weelllll......that's possible.

 

It's possible that she does care for you in her way, but I don't see much encourgement in your post if you're looking for a gf who is absolutely devoted to you and bonkers about only you.

[blind_otter]

This is not how a woman who's head over heels behaves. I don't know that you should feel so unbalanced and off kilter, without it seems, the high highs and euphoria that normally accompany a new relationship.

 

Come on man. As Jerry Seinfeld says, what IS the deal? You are only in the "hanging out" phase of this relationship, or whatever it is, and already you're unhappy, jealous, feeling like there's no positive reciprocation, and feeling like you're putting way more effort into this than she is....what am I missing? What's the good part?

[alphamale]

the impression I get is that this relationship ultimately seems to be revolving around her.

thats cause she is a control freak and wants to be "in charge"...

 

...I told her I was only dating her and nobody else.

bad move....better just to say nothing and keep the mystery alive.

 

Should I have "the talk"? Or is it too early for that?

surely you jest AJ? you two have not even had sexual relations yet. and remember it is the woman's job to bring up "the talk", not yours.

[justagirliegirl]

She just doesn't sound that interested and she knows you are already whipped.

[SuperMonk]

Go with your gut dood! Your gut says "Man this biatch is too much trouble" and she probably is for you. I've seen some posts by you Amerikajin, I thought you had it in hand when it comes to dealing with women, use the muthaf***ken force bro!!!

[Pyro]

Some of you may remember there was a really hot chick that I work with who got my attention (started the whole dating thing about three months ago now). We went out about two or three times. On the third date, I tried to kiss her on the lips but she pulled back and it made things uncomfortable for a while. In fact, she started showing less interest and it caused me to go into a bit of a panic. So I suggested that maybe this wasn't going anywhere. When I last wrote about this here, that's where the story ended.

 

It has since picked up again but I now feel like I'm walking on eggshells again - only this time, because we've spent more time together, I am really starting to feel a lot of unease. I feel like I'm starting to develop attachment to this woman but I'm not sure she's entirely on the same page. I feel like I am starting to put myself out there but worry that I may do so for nothing.

 

We have since spent the night at each other's apartment a total of three times, including twice in the past week. However, in roughly that same span we've also had our ups and downs. In fact, last weekend, we got into a bit of an argument. She was basically standing me up for a date which she had already pushed back when I called and asked her where she was, to which she replied with a groggy tone of voice (she had been sleeping). I momentarily lost my temper and asked not so nicely if she was standing me up (not the best move, I know, but I was pissed). I then called her back and said that I had a right to be mad but I should not have said it in the manner in which it was said. We eventually patched it up, and I went over to spend the night with her. No sex in any of these encounters, although we came very close the last time. She has been very slow in that department with me.

 

The things that jump out at me are that she always seems to change whatever plans we set up. She doesn't necessarily cancel them, but she changes them - like I'll suggest a place to go or an activity, and then it'll get changed. She has been ill with a cold the last week or so (we both have), but I don't think that's the real reason the plans get changed. She also prefers to make plans 'on the fly', rather than making plans ahead of time. I don't want to think this, but sometimes, the impression I get is that this relationship ultimately seems to be revolving around her. It's causing me some frustration and at times, that is probably not so easily concealed, which causes occasional tension in our relationship.

 

The last two days I have sensed she is pulling back a little bit. She responds to my calls and texts, but does not really initiate them. Asked her to call me if she wanted to make plans tonight but I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think I'm necessarily out, but I think I'm working with someone who is taking me for granted and I don't know how much longer I should work with this. The upside is, She is an absolute hottie, so honestly, the guy in me is telling me to keep at it. And we do actually have a good time when we are together on our dates, or in bed lying next to each other. It's the communication and peripheral stuff outside of that which is complicating things, I think.

 

Final things to consider...

 

...I told her I was only dating her and nobody else. She heard me but didn't respond, so I am not totally sure she's as committed to me as I am to her, although given her personality, I can't imagine she'd be actually dating anyone else, and her friends haven't given me any indication to believe otherwise. I do know there are tons of guys hitting on her all the time, so there are options at her disposal. Should I have "the talk"? Or is it too early for that?

 

It is obvious that you are putting in a majority of the effort in this. I believe that things will not work unless she is willing to put as much effort into what you two have as you have been putting in. For a relationship to start and last, you both need to share the workload 50/50. Just don't set yourself up for a heartbreak. If you have developed strong feelings for her and you want to know where you and her stand, maybe you should mention somethng to her. You have known her for some time now, so I don't believe that it is too soon.

[whichwayisup]

I still say honesty the best policey right now. You've been intimate enough with her to be able to have an open discussion on how both of you feel and where this relationship could go. Speak from your heart and hopefully she'll do the same thing.

[MadDog]

Hey man. It's funny how I've seen you give some pretty good insights with other people's posts but when it comes to your own stuff, it's hard to see what's going on. I guess it's always hardest to see things that are directly in front of you sometimes.

 

I think for whatever reason, she's not ready to go to the next step. She doesn't want more commitment (hence all the flakiness) and she doesn't want to get more physically involved (no sex yet.)

 

I think the most obvious solution here is to date other girls while you continue to see her. If she comes around, cool. If not, then at least you're not giving up all your other options in the process. The last thing you want is to become committed to her while she gives you nothing in return. Good luck.

 

MD

[Outcast]

She's not a control freak, nor is she a problem female. I've seen examples of your anger here and now she's seen some - you have reported on yourself that you get upset and react quickly. If I were her, I'd be a little wary, myself. She's not getting more involved until she sees if this is a pattern with you.

 

As for worrying about her being 'controlling' or 'playing games', really dude you have to chill. Life totally sucks when you spend all of it attributing malicious intent to others. She probably just had a cold. Maybe she's indecisive and changes her mind often - I know people like that. It's not a 'game' or 'control' - it's just them.

 

Being this wary of people is not going to make you much fun to be around - and therefore not much fun to go out with.

[amerikajin]

It's difficult for me to be objective about my relationships sometimes, which is why I have to use LS to bounce stuff off of other people. I find that my passions have this way of putting on the rose-colored glasses whenever I start courtship; my gut is telling me the truth all the while but I sometimes fail to listen to it. That's why I come here.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

Hi Amerikajin!

 

You offered me some very good advice when I needed them. I hope I can help you understand your situation here.

 

First, you are in Japan, right? The girl you are interested in is Asian, isn't she? If so, that's the majority of your problem there. Asian girls are taught to not trust men, especially the non-Asian men.

 

She likes you - otherwise, she wouldn't have let you touch her "everywhere". However, she does have reservations because you do not have the same cultural background as her. It will take time to convince her and her parents that you are BF material - more on that later.

 

Let me know if I'm off-track. But I can tell you that I know hot Asian girls to a "T".

[amerikajin]

No, it's not a cultural thing. We're on the same wavelength there.

[Trallala]

I'm going to assume my usual role as a passionate relationship critic, , here goes:

 

In fact, last weekend, we got into a bit of an argument. She was basically standing me up for a date which she had already pushed back when I called and asked her where she was, to which she replied with a groggy tone of voice (she had been sleeping).

She is not that interested in you. Period. Not sure if this is a female thing, but I think men are like this, too. You like someone, you enjoy their company, but you are not really that much into them and sometimes they make you feel uncomfortable because they try to get too close to you. Sometimes you get a bad feeling when you think about the next date with them or you feel really lazy, so you look for an excuse, you're busy, you're this or that. You're everything, just not interested enough. You kind of know/feel that he is really into you, so you decide to go along and see how it goes, BUT the moment he starts to push for more he is out. Pushing someone who is only half interested in you is a big big mistake.

 

I momentarily lost my temper and asked not so nicely if she was standing me up (not the best move, I know, but I was pissed).

Tell me, how often did you lose your temper when it came to women you were romantically interested in and how often did it help you reach your goal? Let's just assume she was kind of undecided about you and therefore sometimes flaking, what did you achieve by throwing a fit? Do you really think she started respecting you more? I remember a couple of guys throwing fits at me because I wanted to cancel a date/meeting with a friend, and I can assure you after that I felt even less inclined to hang out with them, because I just see them as guys who are insecure, trying to impose their will on me and have no understanding for my situation. When someone has reservation about you, you have to accept it. You can inquire about it and maybe try to dispel their doubts, sometimes it can also change their mind about you, because you in fact show interest in them as people and not only as "hotties" , but that's it.

 

She is already not that interested in you and if you act like a jealous boyfriend that you are not, you are surely not going to make her want to hang out with you more often, au contraire...

 

I then called her back and said that I had a right to be mad but I should not have said it in the manner in which it was said.

You didn't have any right to be mad at all. Why does she owe you a date? It would be better if she came out clean and told you that she is not that interested, but why don't you ask her about her feelings?

 

She also prefers to make plans 'on the fly', rather than making plans ahead of time.

That's my favorite excuse. Some people, I'm not only talking about guys here, will suggest that you hang out with them. Fact is, you don't really want to spend time with them, for whatever reason - some are really nice, but I just do not want to hang out with them, sometimes it's one of the aforementioned reasons, so you give them a vague answer and explain it with your phobia of "making plans".

 

I don't want to think this, but sometimes, the impression I get is that this relationship ultimately seems to be revolving around her. It's causing me some frustration and at times, that is probably not so easily concealed, which causes occasional tension in our relationship.

Address her and your concerns and settle this in an adult way.

 

I don't think I'm necessarily out, but I think I'm working with someone who is taking me for granted and I don't know how much longer I should work with this.

I think you are mislead here. "Taking you for granted" would imply that she needs your company and would bitterly regret it if you weren't there anymore; I rather think she enjoys and accepts your company, but if she doesn't have it, she won't die either. I also think you can only be taken for granted if you allow her to do so. Why should she do more if you don't expect her to and willing accept whatever she gives you?

 

The upside is, She is an absolute hottie, so honestly, the guy in me is telling me to keep at it.

That's too funny. I do wonder why she is holding back. It's either great sexual attraction or great emotional connection. What are you offering her?

 

And we do actually have a good time when we are together on our dates, or in bed lying next to each other.

And? You're her best platonic friend.

 

It's the communication and peripheral stuff outside of that which is complicating things, I think.

No wonder you don't succeed with this gal...

 

...I told her I was only dating her and nobody else. She heard me but didn't respond, so I am not totally sure she's as committed to me as I am to her, although given her personality, I can't imagine she'd be actually dating anyone else, and her friends haven't given me any indication to believe otherwise. I do know there are tons of guys hitting on her all the time, so there are options at her disposal. Should I have "the talk"? Or is it too early for that?

I have no clue if she is dating someone else or not, but I think she just doesn't like the idea of her being your only object of desire, which means, she is just not that into you and people usually don't want the other person to feel more than they themselves feel for them.

 

Be an adult and have a talk with her without getting pissed off.

[alphamale]

Asian girls are taught to not trust men, especially the non-Asian men.

I don't see too many western women walkiing around alone in parking lots at 3am....

 

But I can tell you that I know hot Asian girls to a "T".

[blind_otter]

First, you are in Japan, right? The girl you are interested in is Asian, isn't she? If so, that's the majority of your problem there. Asian girls are taught to not trust men, especially the non-Asian men.

 

She's canadian.

[monkey00]

 

It has since picked up again but I now feel like I'm walking on eggshells again - only this time, because we've spent more time together, I am really starting to feel a lot of unease. I feel like I'm starting to develop attachment to this woman but I'm not sure she's entirely on the same page. I feel like I am starting to put myself out there but worry that I may do so for nothing.

 

its tough to be in that situation. i think the best way to avoid attachment is date other women at the same time.

We have since spent the night at each other's apartment a total of three times, including twice in the past week. However, in roughly that same span we've also had our ups and downs. In fact, last weekend, we got into a bit of an argument. She was basically standing me up for a date which she had already pushed back when I called and asked her where she was, to which she replied with a groggy tone of voice (she had been sleeping). I momentarily lost my temper and asked not so nicely if she was standing me up (not the best move, I know, but I was pissed). I then called her back and said that I had a right to be mad but I should not have said it in the manner in which it was said. We eventually patched it up, and I went over to spend the night with her. No sex in any of these encounters, although we came very close the last time. She has been very slow in that department with me.

i'd hate to break the news to you Amerikajin, but it sounds to me like her IL has dipped already and is in the low. women with high interest dont stand guys up on dates. you did have every right to get mad...but in most situations it's best to assume theyre no longer interested.

no sex? another sign of bad news, she's keeping you around for attention.

 

The things that jump out at me are that she always seems to change whatever plans we set up. She doesn't necessarily cancel them, but she changes them - like I'll suggest a place to go or an activity, and then it'll get changed. She has been ill with a cold the last week or so (we both have), but I don't think that's the real reason the plans get changed. She also prefers to make plans 'on the fly', rather than making plans ahead of time. I don't want to think this, but sometimes, the impression I get is that this relationship ultimately seems to be revolving around her. It's causing me some frustration and at times, that is probably not so easily concealed, which causes occasional tension in our relationship.

 

The last two days I have sensed she is pulling back a little bit. She responds to my calls and texts, but does not really initiate them. Asked her to call me if she wanted to make plans tonight but I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think I'm necessarily out, but I think I'm working with someone who is taking me for granted and I don't know how much longer I should work with this. The upside is, She is an absolute hottie, so honestly, the guy in me is telling me to keep at it. And we do actually have a good time when we are together on our dates, or in bed lying next to each other. It's the communication and peripheral stuff outside of that which is complicating things, I think.

Women with this kind of inconsistent behavior is consistent whereever you meet them. Trust me im speaking from experience, her interest level has dipped and is only stringing you along.

i agree with the others, dont call her and see where it goes from there.

 

 

...I told her I was only dating her and nobody else. She heard me but didn't respond, so I am not totally sure she's as committed to me as I am to her, although given her personality, I can't imagine she'd be actually dating anyone else, and her friends haven't given me any indication to believe otherwise. I do know there are tons of guys hitting on her all the time, so there are options at her disposal. Should I have "the talk"? Or is it too early for that?

 

Again bad news. she knew you were going on for the relationship talk. her silence shows that she doesnt want to be committed to you. Perhaps to her this is just a casual thing going on, and is waiting for other opportunities to be presented to her.

 

At this point i dont see a reason for having 'the talk', her fluxuating signs of interest doesnt present enough evidence to show that she's ready to be in an exclusive relationship.

 

i think you know where this is going as your post title says. Trust your gut on this.

[tanbark813]

Definitely don't have "the talk" before having sex with her.

[SuperMonk]

It's difficult for me to be objective about my relationships sometimes, which is why I have to use LS to bounce stuff off of other people. I find that my passions have this way of putting on the rose-colored glasses whenever I start courtship; my gut is telling me the truth all the while but I sometimes fail to listen to it. That's why I come here.

 

Alright then bro, we're here to tell you something is up! She's not worthy, save the time and energy and dump her!

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

Ok, so this is a hot Canadian girl....

 

Amerikajin, I have to tell you that this doesn't look very good for you right now. She is definitely not interested in you in a romantic way. She tried... because you were relentless and you were nice. But you are not her type.

 

You seem like such a sensitive and intelligent guy. Why, of all people, would you put yourself in the position where you will be hurt? I can tell you from experience - - that hot girls are only interested in 2 types of men: those with money or those with killer looks.

[alphamale]

Ok, so this is a hot Canadian girl....

To clarify, I believe she is Canadian but of E. Indian descent...

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

Well, if this hot E. Indian girl is like any Canadian woman... then what I've said above still holds true. If she's traditional and shy, then A. may still have hope - albeit a tiny one. I still believe that hot girls will tend to go for hot guys or those with deep pockets.

[blind_otter]

Nah. I'm hot and I serially date broke ass losers.