fooled Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 This is kind of connected to the Kitten's "fate" thread. And it will be long. So if you dare........ I was also doing my taxes today (whole thread is in Breaking Up) - essentially seeing every receipt from every dinner & date, etc. Feeling like I wanted to contact her to tell her (jokingly) that I could have put a down payment on a house with that money. During a walk, saw something that only she would have appreciated and boy, I really wanted to call her. But didn't of course. All week in fact, I have been drawn to want to talk to her. Now, recently I have been adopting a belief system that encourages one to listen. To listen to yourself, your instincts, your friends, nature. When you're hungry, you eat. When you need oxygen, you breathe. I have recently started listening - and have benefitted immensely. I won't go into the many details, but suffice it to say - every decision has been the right one. I know what you're thinking - but no - I did not call her. She called me. About 30 seconds after I saw something that reminded me of her. And I answered. Without hesitation. She told me she didn't think I would pick up and she was just going to leave a message. I told her I haven't been listening to her messages. I instead told her the silly things that reminded me of her. I asked her if she called because she had something she wanted to tell me or something I needed to know. She didn't understand and I told her the difference is I'm not interested in anything in her life now but if I need to go to a clinic immediately - that's the difference. She said then that it was just something she wanted to say - that she is sorry. And I told her "bullsh*t." I said I don't need to hear that you're sorry and I don't care. What's done is done - you're living the life you want and so am I. You never loved me and I've accepted that and it's okay - there's millions of women who don't love me and I'm cool with that (used that in another thread - I'm glad I remembered it). She said "no, I really want you to know that I'm sorry. You didn't deserve to be treated the way I treated you and blah blah blah." I told her what I also don't deserve is to be called and dumped on when no one else is around. I called her on all her crap. Every piece of it. And then - I saw a glimpse of something that wasn't bull. Just like in "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas." It occured to me that maybe she is trying to correct some mistakes. We actually had a conversation that included some honesty. But I didn't weaken. I laid it out. Told her if she really wanted to change, what she had to do. Face the ugliness. Find what's wrong and fix it. To listen. And that was the only reason I was talking to her - because something was telling me that I should. And I told her that, too. "I'm telling you this like I would anyone on the street who asked. Don't think you can just call me anytime now. You and I are not friends. I feel like you never were my friend. I don't want you in my life and I'm not interested that you're sorry. But I do feel like something wanted me to talk to you now - and maybe it's because it's to tell you these things that you need." "Yeah, you've got problems. Everybody's got problems. Fix what you can. Deal with the rest. Be the best person you can be. Just because you're not perfect, doesn't mean you're unlovable. I loved an imperfect Heidi and I knew it. But that was an illusion and I don't love who you are. And I don't hate you, either. You can't love or hate someone you don't know. I just don't know you." When we were done, she told me she would like to talk to me again sometime. I told her "I might answer, I might not. I might respond to your email, I may delete it. If I feel it's the right thing to do, I will. But if I ever do talk to you again - at the first piece of bullsh*t I hear I'm hanging up without saying goodbye and will never talk to you again. If you want something badly enough, you make it happen. Whether it's to stop smoking or give up red meat or want someone's trust again. If you want it and there's an obstacle - you figure it out." "It's time for you to start figuring things out." And I feel okay now. Whether she was really reaching out because she was lonely and none of her guys were around, whether she just wanted some attention from Fooled or whether she is really sorry and wants to be a better person isn't important. I don't care and it doesn't matter. What does matter is that I listened and I feel okay. And I bet I will feel okay tomorrow.
CaliGuy Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 This is kind of connected to the Kitten's "fate" thread. And it will be long. So if you dare........ I was also doing my taxes today (whole thread is in Breaking Up) - essentially seeing every receipt from every dinner & date, etc. Feeling like I wanted to contact her to tell her (jokingly) that I could have put a down payment on a house with that money. During a walk, saw something that only she would have appreciated and boy, I really wanted to call her. But didn't of course. All week in fact, I have been drawn to want to talk to her. Now, recently I have been adopting a belief system that encourages one to listen. To listen to yourself, your instincts, your friends, nature. When you're hungry, you eat. When you need oxygen, you breathe. I have recently started listening - and have benefitted immensely. I won't go into the many details, but suffice it to say - every decision has been the right one. I know what you're thinking - but no - I did not call her. She called me. About 30 seconds after I saw something that reminded me of her. And I answered. Without hesitation. She told me she didn't think I would pick up and she was just going to leave a message. I told her I haven't been listening to her messages. I instead told her the silly things that reminded me of her. I asked her if she called because she had something she wanted to tell me or something I needed to know. She didn't understand and I told her the difference is I'm not interested in anything in her life now but if I need to go to a clinic immediately - that's the difference. She said then that it was just something she wanted to say - that she is sorry. And I told her "bullsh*t." I said I don't need to hear that you're sorry and I don't care. What's done is done - you're living the life you want and so am I. You never loved me and I've accepted that and it's okay - there's millions of women who don't love me and I'm cool with that (used that in another thread - I'm glad I remembered it). She said "no, I really want you to know that I'm sorry. You didn't deserve to be treated the way I treated you and blah blah blah." I told her what I also don't deserve is to be called and dumped on when no one else is around. I called her on all her crap. Every piece of it. And then - I saw a glimpse of something that wasn't bull. Just like in "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas." It occured to me that maybe she is trying to correct some mistakes. We actually had a conversation that included some honesty. But I didn't weaken. I laid it out. Told her if she really wanted to change, what she had to do. Face the ugliness. Find what's wrong and fix it. To listen. And that was the only reason I was talking to her - because something was telling me that I should. And I told her that, too. "I'm telling you this like I would anyone on the street who asked. Don't think you can just call me anytime now. You and I are not friends. I feel like you never were my friend. I don't want you in my life and I'm not interested that you're sorry. But I do feel like something wanted me to talk to you now - and maybe it's because it's to tell you these things that you need." "Yeah, you've got problems. Everybody's got problems. Fix what you can. Deal with the rest. Be the best person you can be. Just because you're not perfect, doesn't mean you're unlovable. I loved an imperfect Heidi and I knew it. But that was an illusion and I don't love who you are. And I don't hate you, either. You can't love or hate someone you don't know. I just don't know you." When we were done, she told me she would like to talk to me again sometime. I told her "I might answer, I might not. I might respond to your email, I may delete it. If I feel it's the right thing to do, I will. But if I ever do talk to you again - at the first piece of bullsh*t I hear I'm hanging up without saying goodbye and will never talk to you again. If you want something badly enough, you make it happen. Whether it's to stop smoking or give up red meat or want someone's trust again. If you want it and there's an obstacle - you figure it out." "It's time for you to start figuring things out." And I feel okay now. Whether she was really reaching out because she was lonely and none of her guys were around, whether she just wanted some attention from Fooled or whether she is really sorry and wants to be a better person isn't important. I don't care and it doesn't matter. What does matter is that I listened and I feel okay. And I bet I will feel okay tomorrow. You'll be fine man. I am glad you got to lay it on her. She deserved that tirade
destination_unknown Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 Hey fooled - i think what you did was 100% right. I was truly awful with my ex (i was personally screwed up and of course shouldnt have been in a relationship - it inevitably screwed him up) and it took losing him the second time for me to truly see how i had hurt him. He didnt tell me out straight (he shouldnt have to) but i realised how hurt he was because of his behaviours, closed off. I think you have done a really good thing for your ex. So many times when people act badly, nobody gives them a proper tongue lashing, so they carry on. You told it to her straight, and it seems to have hit home with her. This type of thing, i think, is what actually can change a persons behaviour (in particular situations). Or at least stops them in their tracks and causes them to evaluate their actions. Good on you.
Author fooled Posted April 2, 2006 Author Posted April 2, 2006 Hey guys - do not look to this incident as inspiration or encouragement. I started the thread because there have been many incidents of synchronicity in my life during the past month, as I've opened myself up. What I did was break NC and I justified it. Hypocritical? Maybe. But I do not want her back in my life. I don't care about her life. I don't care about helping her get better. If she wants to and I helped - great. If she just wanted a pick-me-up or shoulder to cry on - whatever. It doesn't matter. I believe in our conversation, I fulfilled whatever purpose I was to serve and that's all I take away from it. She called again later in the evening. I didn't answer and deleted the message. Not as a show of strength or to teach her a lesson - just because the moment of synchonicity was over - fulfilled - and closed. This thread, as all my threads - are about documenting MY particular journey and recovery. Nothing more. Go read Bendit's thread about what NC means. In it, you will find perspective.
jen_jen_heartbroken Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 At least you're healing. And at least you don't want her back. Those are really good things. Wish I had your strength.
Author fooled Posted April 2, 2006 Author Posted April 2, 2006 At least you're healing. And at least you don't want her back. Those are really good things. Wish I had your strength. I don't have strength, Jencakes - I have resolve. And a willingness to listen and be open to what I need.
riobikini Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 Fooled, God! -there are still some real men around! (Smile) -Rio
Dinnj1 Posted April 3, 2006 Posted April 3, 2006 I don't want you in my life and I'm not interested that you're sorry. This was great!!! I told her "I might answer, I might not. I might respond to your email, I may delete it. If I feel it's the right thing to do, I will. But if I ever do talk to you again - at the first piece of bullsh*t I hear I'm hanging up without saying goodbye and will never talk to you again. This was setting some boundaries.... even better. Good for you Fooled. I can really appreciate this thread and your comments. You can tell you wanted to get alot off your chest AND you needed her to hear em'... and boy did she hear it. Right on!!!
Author fooled Posted April 3, 2006 Author Posted April 3, 2006 Well then maybe somebody can tell my why I can't correctly type the word "synchRonicity." Geez, I misspelled it about 17 times! Thanks, Rio! Thanks everyone. I had a really good day today. I went for a walk at the Realization Center in LA (it's beautiful) and took some pictures. Texted a friend to tell her I love her and owe her a lot (I'd have called but she never answers her cell ) And told this complete story (and believe me,there is much more to it than I had the patience to write) to a dear friend who is SICK and TIRED of hearing about her - and got him interested in my newfound theology/ ideaology/ spirituality/ whatever it is. That's something I NEVER saw coming as he's just not that type of guy. In fact, six months ago I would have tuned myself out. But it's so simple - and it's so helpful - and it makes so much sense. Damn, I hope I don't sound like a cultist here
jen_jen_heartbroken Posted April 3, 2006 Posted April 3, 2006 Honey, you drank the Kool-Aid, didn't you?
johan Posted April 3, 2006 Posted April 3, 2006 I just thought you made up a new word. I would have said something, but it seemed to be a small thing relative to your catharsis. Hope it took. For me, evelations like you're having grow stale after a week or so. Then I have to re-figure it all out. Good luck.
riobikini Posted April 3, 2006 Posted April 3, 2006 Fooled: "Well then maybe somebody can tell my why I can't correctly type the word "synchRonicity." Geez, I misspelled it about 17 times!" We never cared about that....-because we adore you so! "Thanks, Rio! " yw! "And told this complete story (and believe me,there is much more to it than I had the patience to write) to a dear friend who is SICK and TIRED of hearing about her ..." (Laughing) -all our friends, here, have that in common, you know. " - and got him interested in my newfound theology/ ideaology/ spirituality/ whatever it is. That's something I NEVER saw coming as he's just not that type of guy. " We become interesting to our friends during this only if we become stranger still....they're looking for a really obvious reason to have us committed......I don't think you're strange, but then, I'm one of 'us'.....(smile). "In fact, six months ago I would have tuned myself out." Six months ago, you were tuning yourself out. "But it's so simple - and it's so helpful - and it makes so much sense." And, true, -it could catch on.... " Damn, I hope I don't sound like a cultist here.." It's ok, Fooled, -Gurus for the Greater Good are always in demand.....(you aren't wearing a robe and turban..yet....are you?...Playing that funny music??...Smelling like incense??) (Big Smile!) -Rio
KittenMoon Posted April 3, 2006 Posted April 3, 2006 This is kind of connected to the Kitten's "fate" thread. And it will be long. So if you dare........ I was also doing my taxes today (whole thread is in Breaking Up) - essentially seeing every receipt from every dinner & date, etc. Feeling like I wanted to contact her to tell her (jokingly) that I could have put a down payment on a house with that money. During a walk, saw something that only she would have appreciated and boy, I really wanted to call her. But didn't of course. All week in fact, I have been drawn to want to talk to her. Now, recently I have been adopting a belief system that encourages one to listen. To listen to yourself, your instincts, your friends, nature. When you're hungry, you eat. When you need oxygen, you breathe. I have recently started listening - and have benefitted immensely. I won't go into the many details, but suffice it to say - every decision has been the right one. I know what you're thinking - but no - I did not call her. She called me. About 30 seconds after I saw something that reminded me of her. And I answered. Without hesitation. She told me she didn't think I would pick up and she was just going to leave a message. I told her I haven't been listening to her messages. I instead told her the silly things that reminded me of her. I asked her if she called because she had something she wanted to tell me or something I needed to know. She didn't understand and I told her the difference is I'm not interested in anything in her life now but if I need to go to a clinic immediately - that's the difference. She said then that it was just something she wanted to say - that she is sorry. And I told her "bullsh*t." I said I don't need to hear that you're sorry and I don't care. What's done is done - you're living the life you want and so am I. You never loved me and I've accepted that and it's okay - there's millions of women who don't love me and I'm cool with that (used that in another thread - I'm glad I remembered it). She said "no, I really want you to know that I'm sorry. You didn't deserve to be treated the way I treated you and blah blah blah." I told her what I also don't deserve is to be called and dumped on when no one else is around. I called her on all her crap. Every piece of it. And then - I saw a glimpse of something that wasn't bull. Just like in "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas." It occured to me that maybe she is trying to correct some mistakes. We actually had a conversation that included some honesty. But I didn't weaken. I laid it out. Told her if she really wanted to change, what she had to do. Face the ugliness. Find what's wrong and fix it. To listen. And that was the only reason I was talking to her - because something was telling me that I should. And I told her that, too. "I'm telling you this like I would anyone on the street who asked. Don't think you can just call me anytime now. You and I are not friends. I feel like you never were my friend. I don't want you in my life and I'm not interested that you're sorry. But I do feel like something wanted me to talk to you now - and maybe it's because it's to tell you these things that you need." "Yeah, you've got problems. Everybody's got problems. Fix what you can. Deal with the rest. Be the best person you can be. Just because you're not perfect, doesn't mean you're unlovable. I loved an imperfect Heidi and I knew it. But that was an illusion and I don't love who you are. And I don't hate you, either. You can't love or hate someone you don't know. I just don't know you." When we were done, she told me she would like to talk to me again sometime. I told her "I might answer, I might not. I might respond to your email, I may delete it. If I feel it's the right thing to do, I will. But if I ever do talk to you again - at the first piece of bullsh*t I hear I'm hanging up without saying goodbye and will never talk to you again. If you want something badly enough, you make it happen. Whether it's to stop smoking or give up red meat or want someone's trust again. If you want it and there's an obstacle - you figure it out." "It's time for you to start figuring things out." And I feel okay now. Whether she was really reaching out because she was lonely and none of her guys were around, whether she just wanted some attention from Fooled or whether she is really sorry and wants to be a better person isn't important. I don't care and it doesn't matter. What does matter is that I listened and I feel okay. And I bet I will feel okay tomorrow. I just gotta say this is AWESOME. Every word. I wish everyone in the world could express this frank and clear honesty and this resolve. I can't stand bullsh*it and this is the complete antithesis. But if I ever do talk to you again - at the first piece of bullsh*t I hear I'm hanging up without saying goodbye and will never talk to you again. I can't express how much I love this line, and this concept. Way to go, Fooled.
2020vision Posted April 3, 2006 Posted April 3, 2006 Wow, I feel like I am reading something I posted. My ex called me two weeks ago to say he was sorry. I told him basically the same thing you just posted. To me, the only reason he was apologizing was to feel better about himself and to get if off his conscience how badly he treated me. Needless to say, his apology was not accepted. Good for you, its a great feeling being able to lay everything out on the line like that.
riobikini Posted April 3, 2006 Posted April 3, 2006 RE: 2020Vision: " My ex called me two weeks ago to say he was sorry..... the only reason he was apologizing was to feel better about himself..." My B** did the very same thing. Lots of folks arrive at this board desperately seeking to learn exactly "what they're thinking"..- "they" being the ex, of course- and many swear their ex's never show a sign of feeling any regret. This may be true in alot of cases, but there are those who do feel guilt -and plenty of it! We deliberate and flip-flop over whether we want them to feel pain or not, i.e. you'll find post after post in this site saying, "I don't want to hurt him/her, -but I want them to know the pain I'm feeling." One is impossible without the other, I'm afraid. I've made my choice between the two. Fact is, personally, I want the guilty to pay. I want them to carry, at least, some of the responsibility and feel some of the pain. So it's actually music to my ears when the ex says, " I feel guilty...I have this regret....I feel as if I've done something 'bad' and need to apologize" I automatically think "Yes, you have.....to put it mildly, something very, very 'bad'...and you do need to apologize." Now, I'm not a vindictive person, -I am not the type to blindly seek revenge, but in all of this -because of the hell I've been through- I don't apologize for the smile that their struggle with the obvious brings to my face. They should feel guilty because, by God, they are guilty! -Rio
chocolate_boy Posted April 4, 2006 Posted April 4, 2006 RE: Fact is, personally, I want the guilty to pay. I want them to carry, at least, some of the responsibility and feel some of the pain. So it's actually music to my ears when the ex says, " I feel guilty...I have this regret....I feel as if I've done something 'bad' and need to apologize" I automatically think "Yes, you have.....to put it mildly, something very, very 'bad'...and you do need to apologize." Now, I'm not a vindictive person, -I am not the type to blindly seek revenge, but in all of this -because of the hell I've been through- I don't apologize for the smile that their struggle with the obvious brings to my face. They should feel guilty because, by God, they are guilty! -Rio This is just a normal stage in a breakup I feel, and once you have gotten over them, thoughts like this do and will diminish to a much more powerful stage... Indifference. I now wish my ex well from one human being to another, but to be honest I don't really care how she feels, what she''s doing (or who), I have no desire to be her friend, or no wish to have her come back to me begging etc. I go my way, she goes hers, sure we had fun together but it ended, it's life, most do. I genuinley hope I don't hear from her again. I think indifference is the stage when you know you have truly accepted what has happened and moved past it, and the stage we should all aim for.
lexilas Posted April 4, 2006 Posted April 4, 2006 Synchonicity -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is kind of connected to the Kitten's "fate" thread. And it will be long. So if you dare........ I was also doing my taxes today (whole thread is in Breaking Up) - essentially seeing every receipt from every dinner & date, etc. Feeling like I wanted to contact her to tell her (jokingly) that I could have put a down payment on a house with that money. During a walk, saw something that only she would have appreciated and boy, I really wanted to call her. But didn't of course. All week in fact, I have been drawn to want to talk to her. Now, recently I have been adopting a belief system that encourages one to listen. To listen to yourself, your instincts, your friends, nature. When you're hungry, you eat. When you need oxygen, you breathe. I have recently started listening - and have benefitted immensely. I won't go into the many details, but suffice it to say - every decision has been the right one. I know what you're thinking - but no - I did not call her. She called me. About 30 seconds after I saw something that reminded me of her. And I answered. Without hesitation. She told me she didn't think I would pick up and she was just going to leave a message. I told her I haven't been listening to her messages. I instead told her the silly things that reminded me of her. I asked her if she called because she had something she wanted to tell me or something I needed to know. She didn't understand and I told her the difference is I'm not interested in anything in her life now but if I need to go to a clinic immediately - that's the difference. She said then that it was just something she wanted to say - that she is sorry. And I told her "bullsh*t." I said I don't need to hear that you're sorry and I don't care. What's done is done - you're living the life you want and so am I. You never loved me and I've accepted that and it's okay - there's millions of women who don't love me and I'm cool with that (used that in another thread - I'm glad I remembered it). She said "no, I really want you to know that I'm sorry. You didn't deserve to be treated the way I treated you and blah blah blah." I told her what I also don't deserve is to be called and dumped on when no one else is around. I called her on all her crap. Every piece of it. And then - I saw a glimpse of something that wasn't bull. Just like in "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas." It occured to me that maybe she is trying to correct some mistakes. We actually had a conversation that included some honesty. But I didn't weaken. I laid it out. Told her if she really wanted to change, what she had to do. Face the ugliness. Find what's wrong and fix it. To listen. And that was the only reason I was talking to her - because something was telling me that I should. And I told her that, too. "I'm telling you this like I would anyone on the street who asked. Don't think you can just call me anytime now. You and I are not friends. I feel like you never were my friend. I don't want you in my life and I'm not interested that you're sorry. But I do feel like something wanted me to talk to you now - and maybe it's because it's to tell you these things that you need." "Yeah, you've got problems. Everybody's got problems. Fix what you can. Deal with the rest. Be the best person you can be. Just because you're not perfect, doesn't mean you're unlovable. I loved an imperfect Heidi and I knew it. But that was an illusion and I don't love who you are. And I don't hate you, either. You can't love or hate someone you don't know. I just don't know you." When we were done, she told me she would like to talk to me again sometime. I told her "I might answer, I might not. I might respond to your email, I may delete it. If I feel it's the right thing to do, I will. But if I ever do talk to you again - at the first piece of bullsh*t I hear I'm hanging up without saying goodbye and will never talk to you again. If you want something badly enough, you make it happen. Whether it's to stop smoking or give up red meat or want someone's trust again. If you want it and there's an obstacle - you figure it out." "It's time for you to start figuring things out." And I feel okay now. Whether she was really reaching out because she was lonely and none of her guys were around, whether she just wanted some attention from Fooled or whether she is really sorry and wants to be a better person isn't important. I don't care and it doesn't matter. What does matter is that I listened and I feel okay. And I bet I will feel okay tomorrow. Well done! Getting to this point is where I strive to be.
Raven1845 Posted April 4, 2006 Posted April 4, 2006 Wow, Fooled. You're such an inspiration to me. I know you've been through a lot, but to be able to say what you said and also delete the message without listening to it when she called back . . . just incredible! I hope to be where you are someday. (though, I'm sure it can still be rough, you seem to be doing good). May I ask where your newfound spirituality or outlook has come from? Any books or anything that may help me along? Big hugs!
Author fooled Posted April 4, 2006 Author Posted April 4, 2006 Yum! Hugs from Raven! It was easy to delete the message when she called back. She said she had to do something & she'd call in 1/2 hr -- and after 45, I called and left a VM "here's the name of the book I was telling you about. When you're ready to listen and be honest with yourself, pick it up and read it - it'll help. You're not ready yet because you obviously still have no respect for my time." So when she called back 20 minutes later that's how I was feeling. Easy to delete it. I've talked about the book here before - it's called The Wisdom of the Enneagram. Also I have been following a program called The Artist's Way, which is a spiritual guide to recovering your creativity. But both of these just reinforced what my friends have been telling me for a few years - that I am not doing what I am supposed to be doing. Once I started listening to them - and having these books really forcing me to focus on myself and listen to my instincts, things have been much better. PM me for more - as I don't want to preach here to everyone. And again - mmmmmmm....raven hugs! Wow, Fooled. You're such an inspiration to me. I know you've been through a lot, but to be able to say what you said and also delete the message without listening to it when she called back . . . just incredible! I hope to be where you are someday. (though, I'm sure it can still be rough, you seem to be doing good). May I ask where your newfound spirituality or outlook has come from? Any books or anything that may help me along? Big hugs!
johan Posted April 4, 2006 Posted April 4, 2006 ...I don't want to preach here to everyone. Why stop now?
Raven1845 Posted April 5, 2006 Posted April 5, 2006 Yum! Hugs from Raven! It was easy to delete the message when she called back. She said she had to do something & she'd call in 1/2 hr -- and after 45, I called and left a VM "here's the name of the book I was telling you about. When you're ready to listen and be honest with yourself, pick it up and read it - it'll help. You're not ready yet because you obviously still have no respect for my time." So when she called back 20 minutes later that's how I was feeling. Easy to delete it. I've talked about the book here before - it's called The Wisdom of the Enneagram. Also I have been following a program called The Artist's Way, which is a spiritual guide to recovering your creativity. But both of these just reinforced what my friends have been telling me for a few years - that I am not doing what I am supposed to be doing. Once I started listening to them - and having these books really forcing me to focus on myself and listen to my instincts, things have been much better. PM me for more - as I don't want to preach here to everyone. And again - mmmmmmm....raven hugs! (((FOOLED))) I will definitely look into the book and the program. Thank you!
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