Vertex Posted April 1, 2006 Posted April 1, 2006 Just curious if anyone else shares this viewpoint, because I know I do: I feel as if any failure in a relationship is one I can isolate and identify. I know what causes the issues even if my partner is confused. I am able to predict the actions of others as well as the effects even if they are unsure of their own intentions. I feel as if, when I argue with someone, any viewpoint I have is logical and fully rational, backed up by evidence that justifies any questions or points I have. I know that even early on in a relationship I can spot problems that may cause issues later and yet decide to ignore them for the sake of continuing on with a temporary utopia with the hope that said issues can be fixed when they begin to become more serious -- even though I know it is unlikely. I always know what my partner feels even if they don't say it outright. I just feel like, throughout my life, I've constantly been able to say "I knew it" or "I told you so" or "Once again I am never wrong." What does this mean? Is it even true? What other implications does this have? How many others feel this way?
RecordProducer Posted April 1, 2006 Posted April 1, 2006 That's a wonderful question! I feel like that at the beginning of everything, but sometimes (r often) I am wrong. It's as hard to be wrong as it is to be right, believe me. When you say "I am sorry" nobody believes you actually mean it. And when you're right, people (your partner) hate you. What really pays out is to never admit if you're wrong. So far, people have benefited from that.
Guest Posted April 1, 2006 Posted April 1, 2006 It means you may have a skewed view of yourself. Solicit feedback from people you can trust; teachers, employers, family.
bluetuesday Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 I just feel like, throughout my life, I've constantly been able to say "I knew it" or "I told you so" or "Once again I am never wrong." What does this mean? Is it even true? What other implications does this have? How many others feel this way? hmmm. i've been accused of being a self-righteous as you sound. that's not a dig, we're in this together. to answer your questions: it could mean you pick up on subtle things, are more intelligent or spiritually or emotionally evolved than other people, or it could mean you just focus on the times you ARE right and forget the other times. no, it's not always 'true', there is no objective truth in this case. and the implications are it makes people tire of and mistrust you. unless you can predict the lottery numbers, which i assume you can't. but i often feel like i know best, too. and i feel this way because most of the time i do. not all the time, but a good 85 per cent of it. a little story. years ago, i applied for a managerial job to run the customer service dept for a big national company. part of the assessment process was psychometric testing. very basically, you had to read certain passages of information and were then asked to judge whether you could or could not say things were true, based on the information you had. i got the highest score in the history of the company (and got the job). some people (like me) can deduce things better than other people. their brains work in such a way that they are able to assimilate information in a certain way to predict a particular outcome. if asked, i tell people what's wrong with their relationships, why a certain person is bad for them, why this will end and how, you know the sort of thing. and mostly i'm right. if i'm not asked, i don't tell. that's how i still have friends. with my own life, it's harder. but i still know, deep down. i'll plough ahead with things i know are going to end badly, just... because. because i'm lonely or because i like someone in a temporary way and don't need it to work out forever for it to be any good. but there are ALWAYS signs as to what is really going on. we know more than we think. most of us just ignore it, or mistrust it. a friend once told me he felt like i was from a slightly different species who could see things in a way other humans didn't. it was a compliment. but then he asked my advice on his current girlfriend and when i told him it wouldn't work out, and why, he started ignoring me. i felt like shouting 'the truth? you can't handle the truth!' i also believe that i can't be argued with, because my views take a long time to form and are always rational and logically impenetrable. so i avoid arguments with people who can't handle losing them. i guess i am impossible to live with.
Author Vertex Posted April 2, 2006 Author Posted April 2, 2006 LOL I feel like I can identify with a lot of what you said. And no I cannot predict lottery numbers -- they are random. But I was trying to get at the idea of causality, being able to take in a set of variables and logically deduce the effect or outcome.
ImWithHer Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 Vertex, you're a woman, aren't you? But seriously, thinking you're right all the time is kinda arrogant, and shows a lack of ability to see things from other points of view. Plus know-it-alls are a pain in the ass. That kinda attitude will only push people way. Think about it - if you have a partner that you don't always agree with, and you're always right, then logically.... stay with me here... YOUR PARTNER IS ALWAYS ...WRONG! Would YOU want to be in a relationship like that?
Author Vertex Posted April 2, 2006 Author Posted April 2, 2006 No I am a man. And that's the thing -- I am good at seeing other people's point of view, since it helps me determine what action they are going to take. It's just that I feel that taking in everything help me be "right" more often than not, and I try not to let it "show" but it's hard to argue with people when you've seen so much evidence that gives credence to your viewpoint.
ImWithHer Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 LOL I feel like I can identify with a lot of what you said. And no I cannot predict lottery numbers -- they are random. But I was trying to get at the idea of causality, being able to take in a set of variables and logically deduce the effect or outcome. Hmmm... so we can assume then that you've made BILLIONS in the stock market?
Guest Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 e when you've seen so much evidence that gives credence to your viewpoint. According to you. However the fact of life is that evidence persuades few people. You have to play to feelings. People don't think on the whole; they feel.
jerbear Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 I never really have that feeling 100%. Usually pretty good, close to 100% but never 100% or "never wrong" To prove that I made a $1,000 bet with a friend that if I lost; I would take her shopping and buy her (good old friend 18+ years) a dress then go out on the town with her wearing it. :D I covered the night. Well the feeling of never wrong, cost me over $1,000 to cover the bet. What I learned was, reconsider betting against a woman especially if she gets a dress. Now the positives: she paid for dinner ($200), we had fun, and I had a GREAT piece of eye candy under my arm.
dgiirl Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 But seriously, thinking you're right all the time is kinda arrogant, and shows a lack of ability to see things from other points of view. Plus know-it-alls are a pain in the ass. I completely agree. My exh was this way. Thought he knew everything and he became so arrogant that he pretty much disrespected me and my own opinions. He never consulted with me over anything, and he always made the decisions. And I allowed him. It was just easier to let him get his way then to argue over trivial things. Unfortunately, this led to him abandoning me without ever telling me there were problems in our marriage. So now I'm very fearful of ppl who are arrogant.
Author Vertex Posted April 2, 2006 Author Posted April 2, 2006 My point is not to sound arrogant or to discredit other people's points of views -- I am asking what to do about it? It's not like I go around telling people I am right and they are wrong. I know that saying "I am usually right" sounds arrogant, but I am not saying this to come off as some spoiled individual who feels that he should always get his way, but rather I am saying this because it's causing me problems. I can't just "force" myself to be wrong when there is so much evidence that may suggest a certain result. For example, say you are exceedingly good at calculus, and you work with a team of classmates everyday to solve a new problem that gets thrown at you. You are good enough such that you are able to figure out the answer with 100% certainty, but your classmates are not as good as you and insist the answer is something else. You know your calculus, and you know that given logic and the rules and approaches of mathematics, your answer is correct. You're not one to go around constantly saying "Your answer is wrong! You're an idiot and I am always right," but rather, you find it difficult to argue with people because they become upset that they can't win an argument against you because your intuitions turn out to be more accurate than not. Does this make sense? My problem is not so much the social implications that accompany one who is right (e.g. arrogance), but rather what it means to actually be right and what it means when you're in a relationship with issues. When I argue with someone I do take in their views, but when I present an argument that logically counters theirs they oftentimes don't have a reasonable rebuttal and it leads to them just feeling angry at me. I mean, if I have a strong feeling that something is true, am I supposed to just let it slide and pretend that I have no idea, or say something I know is likely to be false? I know that I am not "always" right, but most of the time my intuitions are correct -- like if there are issues in my relationships I know where they come from. And I know that the mere fact of "being right" is one of them.
basscatcher Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 Just curious if anyone else shares this viewpoint, because I know I do: I feel as if any failure in a relationship is one I can isolate and identify. I know what causes the issues even if my partner is confused. I am able to predict the actions of others as well as the effects even if they are unsure of their own intentions. I feel as if, when I argue with someone, any viewpoint I have is logical and fully rational, backed up by evidence that justifies any questions or points I have. I know that even early on in a relationship I can spot problems that may cause issues later and yet decide to ignore them for the sake of continuing on with a temporary utopia with the hope that said issues can be fixed when they begin to become more serious -- even though I know it is unlikely. I always know what my partner feels even if they don't say it outright. I just feel like, throughout my life, I've constantly been able to say "I knew it" or "I told you so" or "Once again I am never wrong." What does this mean? Is it even true? What other implications does this have? How many others feel this way? WOW.. I need to meet you!! I feel I am like the bolded text. I am for sure the kind of person in the bolded, underlined and italicized text.. Let me ask: Have you read any books or articles about relationships? Do you investigate and analyze information you recieve regarding relationships (particularity your own)? Are you a man who wants to learn, change your negative ways and grow to be a better and more whole person? Are you a problem solver in nature? Do you look, listen and ask questions to understand relationships? Do you believe we all have the ability to change and grow? Do you have an unbelivable amount of faith in peopel? Do you look for the good in people and feed yourself off of it? IMO If you answered yes to many, if not all, the questions I posed then you are relationship oriented and are a person whom I believe to be forgiving, kind, caring, sensitive, giving, loving, nurturing, helpful, you search for solutions to problems without pushing them on the back burner so-to-speak and are living your life in the best possible manner that you know how and are capable of.. You have educated and trained yourself to see cause of a negative action/word from someone whom you have come to know on a intimate/personal level. (not just a bystander). You take in inventory and arrange the information you gather and if something isn't healthy you search for information that has created this negative in the persons life. You see a way to correct the problem and want to help but typically get to emotionally involved to be able help them because you become more of a victim of their dysfunction.. Maybe I am wrong on all of my assumptions about you but what I described is what happens to me. I am a analytical person. I retain my lessons as I encounter each situation and my database of relationship information becomes bigger and bigger so I have more understanding of dysfunctions in people which cause dysfunctions in the relationships. I am learning how to look at myself too even though my observation skills are stronger watching others. Especially persons who have shared their pasts, struggles, feelings, thoughts and desires with me. The closer I am to their personal worlds the more I can put the puzzles together. I need to learn to not get myself emotionally attached to people whom I find to have unhealthy balances in their lives and aren't willing to recognize, admit and resolve their negative functions.
dgiirl Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 I dont think being right is necessarily a problem. Not allowing other ppl to figure things out on their own, might be. When you get into heated discussions over trivial things, learn to step away sooner by saying "Let's just agree to disagree". You dont need to pretend you are wrong, nor do you have to prove to other ppl you are right, you just need to respect that other ppl are entitled to their own opinion, even if it proves to be wrong down the line. You always want to let other ppl keep their dignity. If both parties can walk away with their dignity, then you're creating a good atmosphere. If either party walks away without their dignity, then they become resentful.
Author Vertex Posted April 2, 2006 Author Posted April 2, 2006 I can answer yes to all of those -- they describe me pretty well I think, in addition to how you describe yourself. I'm pretty relationship-oriented myself and I tend to keep such a thing as a high priority in life. Past relationships do help fuel accuracy and knowledge pertaining to problemsolving, but if your partner is not a problemsolver of sorts then it can become frustrating for me. My girlfriend does not like to solve problems or figure out how to turn negative into positive, but will accept the negative and let it ruin her mood and render her confused, and despite all my efforts to be rational and help her through it, she becomes upset at me because she simply doesn't want the help. I came close to suicide recently because I let all sorts of negative factors weigh me down (dad's death, girlfriend breakup/getting back together, family issues, money issues, school stress, work issues, etc), but realized that these are just s***ty occurrences and have little to do with my personal character. dgiirl: Understandable, but what if the problem is said to reside with you and you know it not to be true? For example, my girlfriend said I was not spontaneous enough or that I didn't surprise her often. Truth is, I try to, but she is very stubborn in her desires. Meaning, if something is against her will she just doesn't want to do it. So when I try to get her to play along with something to surprise her, she just doesn't follow along or will put other plans into effect that spoil it (like I had made dinner reservations/planned for a nice night out/etc) but instead she insisted she go see a friend, and despite all efforts to persuade her otherwise, she went and my plan failed. The only way I've been able to surprise her is without her consent (ie. just showing up with flowers or something). Regardless, for a long time she put blame on me for not being spontaneous when I think it is inaccurate to say so. There is more evidence lending credence to this but I think the point's pretty clear. Sometimes when you know the answer to a problem and how to fix it you don't want to beat around the bush (ie. why suggest that the antiderivative of x^2 is by definition x^5 when you know it to be x^3/3?). Or, perhaps, with the previous example, I could find other ways to be spontaneous. But that does not resolve the issue that she is reluctant to be flexible with demands. I am willing to change, but the partner has to be willing too. Both people need to be able to do this if required, otherwise there is a lack of willingness and therefore a set of wheels on the car that just refuse to turn, and you go nowhere. Does this make sense? I feel as if I am not explaining this well. I know it is oftentimes best to let people figure things out for themselves instead of having the answer given to them, but I fear that by doing this they are going to endure pain that doesn't need to happen. Why let someone waste years hurting themselves cutting down a tree with a pocketknife when you know a chainsaw would improve all aspects of the desired function? It's more difficult than that in relationships though, and I feel that forcing an answer is dangerous because it is prone to error but also very much prone to misunderstanding on behalf of the person the answer is told to. I'd rather help my girlfriend than let her stress over something for no reason, leading to more issues, and inevitably causing damage to the relationship.
basscatcher Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 By standing by and watching your partner make foolish decisions and make no decisions at all to change unhealthy lifestyles is uncaring. We all at one time or another have had people open up our eyes... If we see something unhealthy in our partner it WILL affect the quality of the relationship.. We are suppose to help one another become the best we can be. I will not stick my head in the sand because it will bite me in the arse later. If my partner doesn't want to grow, help themselves, take advice or constructive criticism to improve their lives then I have to learn to say goodbye.. A negative person will hold me back and cause problems in my own growth. I am learning this AGAIN in my own life. No one likes to be around a negative person who choses to not grow, learn or mature.. It's not healthy to stick your head in the sand ever.
dgiirl Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 We're starting to get into a whole different shades of gray. There's no clear answer for every situation. If your gf has a problem with alcohol, then you mention something to her and decide for yourself if it's something you can or cannot live with. If your gf made friends with someone who doesnt have her best interests, then you can warn her, but at the end, you let her make her own decisions. If your gf is doing homework, you can tell her her answer is wrong, but if she insists that she's right, let her come home with an D. As for your question regarding the spontaneity, there is no right or wrong here. You might very well be a very spontaneous person, but your gf FEELS differently. You can prove your case with a billion past experiences, you cannot change the way she FEELS. In relationships, it's very important for you to acknowledge how she feels instead of just proving her wrong. As dr phil says, do you want to be right or happy? If you want to be happy, then you need to listen to your gf and acknowledge how she feels instead of being on the defense trying to tell her she's wrong for feeling the way she does. It wont work and you'll cause an even bigger gap between you two because she'll think you are not listening to her. One of the major problems I had with my ex was him playing devils advocate. He always tried to fix things for me, or tried to make me see the other pov. Sometimes all I wanted was a safe place to fall and have him say he understood why I was angry. Instead, he'd just start playing devils advocate which made me feel he either didnt care why I was angry, he didnt listen to me, or he thought I was wrong for feeling such and such a way. So not only was I angry with a coworker, but I come home to have him tell me I was wrong too. ALL he had to say was "I understand why you are upset but you can try this and that and that". It would have done wonders! You and your gf need to compromise a little. Tell her you want to work on making her happier, but it's a little hard to be spontaneous and get both your schedules to match. As a compromise, you want to take her out on such and such a day, but the whole day is a surprise to her. She wont get to know what you'll end up doing. This way she gets the excitement of not knowing what to expect, BUT you also get to know she'll be available.
Author Vertex Posted April 2, 2006 Author Posted April 2, 2006 I agree, dgiirl. It's not that I wasn't willing to be spontaneous in another way, it's that I was trying to explain why she felt the way she did when it turned into a big issue. She felt that the lack of spontaniety was something inherent within myself when I insisted that it was just a difference in approach and expectation. To her, I am not spontaneous. To me, she does not allow for much spontaneity and is fixed in her desires whereas I am spontaneous. Therefore we either think of spontaneity differently, or one of us is not trying hard enough. I feel that I am willing to try other methods, but if she still follows the same pattern, then it makes me feel as if my initial thoughts were indeed correct. "So not only was I angry with a coworker, but I come home to have him tell me I was wrong too. ALL he had to say was "I understand why you are upset but you can try this and that and that". It would have done wonders!" This is what I mean. It isn't so much about telling someone they are necessarily wrong and leaving it at that, but knowing that someone feels a certain way because of certain factors you are able to identify and use to suggest alternate methods of action. What is frustrating though is when those suggestions are denied and simply ignored and not even entertained or considered. It upsets me when there is a problem with a pretty clear cause and yet they are not willing to take the steps needed to fix it. Maybe this approach is naive? I don't know.
dgiirl Posted April 2, 2006 Posted April 2, 2006 This is what I mean. It isn't so much about telling someone they are necessarily wrong and leaving it at that, but knowing that someone feels a certain way because of certain factors you are able to identify and use to suggest alternate methods of action. What is frustrating though is when those suggestions are denied and simply ignored and not even entertained or considered. It upsets me when there is a problem with a pretty clear cause and yet they are not willing to take the steps needed to fix it. Maybe this approach is naive? I don't know. This is a guy vs girl thing. Guys want to resolve the issue. They see the problem right away and know the solution. But sometimes girls just want to be heard and not necessarily have their issues fixed. Sometimes they just want to feel that atleast one person is behind them no matter what, and that is why she is coming to you. She doesnt want you to fix her problems, but know that you are a safe place for her to fall. Also, in this situation, we ALL handle things differently, and there is no right or wrong! You might be a very direct person, and that will work for you in some situations and not in others. Your gf might be a very shy reserved type of person who doesnt like to get into conflict. These methods sometimes works for her, sometimes doesnt. If she adopts your way of handling the situation, it might work for her, or it might completely backfire on her. She might not know how to do it your way, and although you can see what actions to take very clearly, she's not you and doesnt act the same way. So you cant say you are right or wrong. This simply works for you, it might not her. This is something I have trouble with too, and I'm learning to be more patient with others. Even tho I think I know what someone should do, and it infuriates me that they wont do what I say, what gives me the right to be infuriated? This is where you might need to learn a little more patiences, and not get yourself so emotionally involved. There's no reason for you to get frustrated over how other's choose to live their lives.
bluetuesday Posted April 3, 2006 Posted April 3, 2006 She felt that the lack of spontaniety was something inherent within myself when I insisted that it was just a difference in approach and expectation. To her, I am not spontaneous. To me, she does not allow for much spontaneity and is fixed in her desires whereas I am spontaneous. is your relationship otherwise good? i would hazard a guess that your gf complaining about you not being spontaneous enough for her is another way of saying 'i'm bored'. she is focussing on a specific and calling it a problem, knowing deep down that no matter how much you try to be spontaneous, she can say it's still not enough. or you're not doing it in the right way. all of which backs up her belief that the problem is within you, and inherrent. It isn't so much about telling someone they are necessarily wrong and leaving it at that, but knowing that someone feels a certain way because of certain factors you are able to identify and use to suggest alternate methods of action. What is frustrating though is when those suggestions are denied and simply ignored and not even entertained or considered. It upsets me when there is a problem with a pretty clear cause and yet they are not willing to take the steps needed to fix it. so this is a problem for you, having your gentle suggestions ignored? by your own rationale you should be able to see the solution! most (okay, all) of what you say makes perfect sense to me. i could have written it. i am not arrogant. i am a caring, loving and empathetic person. but you have to accept, as i have accepted, that if you offered everyone a happiness pill to sort their lives out, some wouldn't take it. some would be offended at the suggestion and most would only take it in their own time. i understand your frustrations totally. but the solution is to find partners open-minded enough and (i hate to say) intelligent enough to genuinely understand where you're coming from. i'm sorry to report it's not a huge pool. intellect and intuition of the sort you say you have would be frightening and intimidating - not to mention outright offputting - to most people, i'd imagine. this is one reason i avoid relationships. but why would incompatibility in this respect be any less important than how many kids you want or how you want to spend your money? Maybe this approach is naive? I don't know. oh yes, you do. this approach isn't naive, per se. it's only naive to expect someone who feels threatened by it (and thereby fails to understand it) to understand it.
blind_otter Posted April 3, 2006 Posted April 3, 2006 Hang out with someone who is certifiably brilliant. By the end of the day you feel like a dud.
riobikini Posted April 4, 2006 Posted April 4, 2006 I wish I had a nickel for every time I've been wrong. But I wish I'd video-taped the few times I've been right. -Rio
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