NoIDidn't Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 I am new but have been lurking for some time. I notice that when things are ending most tend to talk negatively about the MM. I just want to ask the question of why demonize him? Does it really help to make him the bad guy? Is it possible that he is a man that realizes the mistake he made/was making and got out? Could it be that he does realize what he would have lost if he lost his W and family (not just staying for security and stability)? Don't get me wrong, some MM are dogs - but not all are cheaters at heart. Some do it once and never again. I would love responses from anyone interested: OW/OM/BS/WS. Anyone?
erika2610 Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 I am new but have been lurking for some time. I notice that when things are ending most tend to talk negatively about the MM. I just want to ask the question of why demonize him? Does it really help to make him the bad guy? Is it possible that he is a man that realizes the mistake he made/was making and got out? Could it be that he does realize what he would have lost if he lost his W and family (not just staying for security and stability)? Don't get me wrong, some MM are dogs - but not all are cheaters at heart. Some do it once and never again. I would love responses from anyone interested: OW/OM/BS/WS. Anyone? When things with my ex-MM ended, I didn't blame only him. I didn't make him out to be some kind of horrid monster. I knew I was partly to blame.. I knew he was married. What I was mad at was the fact that he lied to me and treated me like crap for a year. I was told his wife was somewhat of a monster, which isn't true. I was told he was looking to get out, which wasn't true. All kinds of things that weren't true. Yet when his W found out, I do believe he turned it around to be my fault. I gave him everything I had, yet he did nothing but lie to me. And now, I hear he's got another mistress. So nope, it wasn't that he realized he made a mistake. It was that I apparently wanted more than he was willing to give ME.
Author NoIDidn't Posted March 31, 2006 Author Posted March 31, 2006 I want to add that I don't want to demonize the OP either. Sure he's married, but that doesn't minimize the pain of losing the R (sometimes the OW/OM is with someone who isn't married, just dating someone somewhat exclusively ) Most do lie, but first its to themselves. Thanks for your reply.
erika2610 Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 I want to add that I don't want to demonize the OP either. Sure he's married' date=' but that doesn't minimize the pain of losing the R (sometimes the OW/OM is with someone who isn't married, just dating someone somewhat exclusively ) Most do lie, but first its to themselves. Thanks for your reply.[/quote'] Are you an OW?
Aaurora Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 I still love my ex-mm and care for him greatly. He will be forever in my heart and a part of my life. I am one OW that doesn't think he is a dog, a heartless swine etc...he is a beautiful man who happened to fall in love with me, and me with him. But the W found out, she gave him an ultimatum, her or me...and in the end he chose her. It was too hard to start a new life. Too hard to leave. And that saddens me as I for one would rather have love than security. But that was his choice. And I will never hate him for it.
erika2610 Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 Do you mind if I ask why you're asking? (I know that sounds kinda weird:))
lovernotafighter Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 I don't think I demonize my MM...I do worry he's is just like so many others..that is true...but we went into this with eyes wide open..both of us...we did not intend on falling in love,but it happened anyway. but we are equally to blame for whats happened and we enable each other to continue.
OzGirl Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 Why demonize them? Because they make promises they don't keep. They lie all over the place to suit ultimately their own purposes. They hurt people then run away from dealing with the fallout of doing so. They place no value on the institution of their marriage. Then, they sometimes go and do it all again. And, again. And, again. And secondly, I think it's a normal, healthy reaction to their actions to cast them in such a weak and deplorable light. I don't mind the question being asked, but wonder why it matters to you? Who are you questioning? The MM who are complete *ssholes, or the OW who are reacting to them being so? Why are you asking the question?
erika2610 Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 Why demonize them? Because they make promises they don't keep. They lie all over the place to suit ultimately their own purposes. They hurt people then run away from dealing with the fallout of doing so. They place no value on the institution of their marriage. Then, they sometimes go and do it all again. And, again. And, again. And secondly, I think it's a normal, healthy reaction to their actions to cast them in such a weak and deplorable light. I don't mind the question being asked, but wonder why it matters to you? Who are you questioning? The MM who are complete *ssholes, or the OW who are reacting to them being so? Why are you asking the question? Great post.. everything I tried to say, but for some reason couldn't think of all that for some reason
Blind Illusion Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 I think it's an interesting question and worth thinking about. Although, if I could make a living thinking and pondering things from every angle, I'd be a very rich gal! I am towards the end (I think) of a relationship with a MM. I suppose over time, things fizzle out, our life circumstances changed a bit, he moved further from me, etc. Right now, I am not demonizing him although perhaps that makes the whole thing drag out longer. (it's sooooo much easier to move on when you look at the person in a negative light) I have a problem doing that because he is basically a likeable person, one whose opinions about things I value. He is also someone that has helped me to believe in myself, countless times, and for that, I will be forever grateful, even when the relationship ends. There has really never been any broken promises either. for the most part. It was more that we were both lonely in unions where the other person refused to get help to make the marriages better & we found each other somehow. I am hoping that I can always view the good that has come from this liason even when I am no longer involved with him. At some point, though, I guess I might have to concentrate on the less than good parts of this in order to make the final hurdle away. Sometimes I think it will just faze out entirely but then, he seems to move closer again. I can't keep dancing that way forever though because there is too big of an emotional price.
foolinlove Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 I did not demonize my mm when I tried to end it the first few times with him. When he moved out then moved back in I told myself that he needs to do what is good for him. When he moved back in and STILL wanted to continue things with me, I changed my attitude towards him. I told him I would no longer be a OW and if he wanted a R with me, he would have to leave for good, and he did, 3 months later. During this time I put him thru hell, he WOULD NOT leave me alone. He pulled out all the stops, til finally I said NC. NC made him leave once again. Since then, I will give him credit he has changed his ways. But the lieing hasn't stopped, and that is where I draw the line with me. That is where I feel treated like the W and my respect changes for him. Since then, I find the best way to handle my anger and hurt towards him is to demonize him. He was given the choice to walk away, work on his marriage and I wouldn't have hard feelings towards him. He insisted he coudln't live without me and would do whatever it takes to be with me. With all of that comes his lies. I can't handle the lies, if we dont' have trust we have nothing. That is why I say F*** him, and i need to live me life.
newbby Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 sometimes the mm is just a guy who fell into a situation, and more often he is a guy who puts alot of effort into lying to get women to sleep with him on the side of his marriage. whoever he is, i think the demonising is sometimes a very necessary process, especially for those who were very brainwashed by his lies, and i have seen alot of otherwise intelligent women in here, who really do think the wife is a bytch from h£ll, who wont let him go without financially sucking him dry and turning his children against him forever. in this way the demonising only serves to balance things out abit, and help her to let go of her idealized view of him.
Blind Illusion Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 Is it possible that he is a man that realizes the mistake he made/was making and got out? Could it be that he does realize what he would have lost if he lost his W and family (not just staying for security and stability)? Don't get me wrong, some MM are dogs - but not all are cheaters at heart. Some do it once and never again. I was rereading your post and just wanted to add this in response to this comment: I think its always more believable with a change of heart when the person comes to this conclusion WITHOUT GETTING CAUGHT. Otherwise, you are forever wondering if getting caught is what caused the turn-around or if its a genuine thing.
newbby Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 I did not demonize my mm when I tried to end it the first few times with him. When he moved out then moved back in I told myself that he needs to do what is good for him. When he moved back in and STILL wanted to continue things with me, I changed my attitude towards him. I told him I would no longer be a OW and if he wanted a R with me, he would have to leave for good, and he did, 3 months later. During this time I put him thru hell, he WOULD NOT leave me alone. He pulled out all the stops, til finally I said NC. NC made him leave once again. Since then, I will give him credit he has changed his ways. But the lieing hasn't stopped, and that is where I draw the line with me. That is where I feel treated like the W and my respect changes for him. Since then, I find the best way to handle my anger and hurt towards him is to demonize him. He was given the choice to walk away, work on his marriage and I wouldn't have hard feelings towards him. He insisted he coudln't live without me and would do whatever it takes to be with me. With all of that comes his lies. I can't handle the lies, if we dont' have trust we have nothing. That is why I say F*** him, and i need to live me life. very good point! they never stay away, for long.
Blind Illusion Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 Another thing is, do we write , especially in public forums, when things are at their best? (not just about MM, but anything). For me, by the time I am writing, things are already festering in my mind. Usually those without relationship woes aren't posting that very sentiment.
SoleMate Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 It is hard to avoid "demonizing" the MM when we read these painful stories of the damage they have caused with their lies and manipulation. But what do you mean by "demonizing"? Do you mean, "putting all the blame on the MM"? In many cases, 90-100% of the blame belongs on his shoulders simply due to the undisputed facts of the case. If he had not acted, no affair would have occurred, no OW would be heartbroken, no wife would be in anguish wondering when the rug was going to get jerked out from under her. As they say in a traffic context, he had the "last clear chance to avoid the incident". Therefore the burden of guilt is placed on him.
MsColorado Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 In my first marriage my husband cheated on me with a co-worker. I didn't blame this woman AT ALL. He was the one I took vows with, had children with and built a life with. He was the one that made promises to me all those years ago (who, by the way, was devastated when I filed for divorce). BUT...for the life of me, I cannot understand when reading these posts why OWs are always so shocked when the MM lies to them. As if he's the most wonderful man in the world who has this horrendous witch of a wife and just happened to find true love with the OW -- then all of sudden they realize he's nothing but a big liar to every woman. If a man is lying to the woman he tooks vows with and had children with you can be assured he is going to do the same to the OW. They are dishonorable men. Period.
Author NoIDidn't Posted March 31, 2006 Author Posted March 31, 2006 Thanks for all the replies. I ask because it is an interest of mine. I am not an OW, now, but years ago when I was much younger I found that my BF had a fiance. I dumped him but not without being heartbroken. I demonized him for years but I find that it does not make it easier to get over them. It just gives them a more permanent residence in your mind. Plus I was 21 when going through this and am now deciding to put the whole thing to bed. When I was dating my XBF years ago, at first I didn't know about the GF and we broke up. I found out about her but still got back with him. Now more than 10 years later he is D and was still calling me. My XBF is a serial cheater. I didn't break up with him b/c of his GF but b/c I found out I wasn't the only OW. You wouldn't be demonizing a guy like this, but doing so only made it harder for me to truly let him go. My question is also two fold before I get called a liar. I am M now and a BW. I have been on both sides of this fence so I know better than to come down hard on someone who really did get caught up in a bad sitch. But I do feel that is incredibly unfair to generalize by saying that the W got the *booby prize*. Some things you just gotta go through before being able to say you'd never do them. I really do appreciate the replies.
Author NoIDidn't Posted March 31, 2006 Author Posted March 31, 2006 But what do you mean by "demonizing"? Do you mean, "putting all the blame on the MM"? In many cases, 90-100% of the blame belongs on his shoulders simply due to the undisputed facts of the case. If he had not acted, no affair would have occurred, no OW would be heartbroken, no wife would be in anguish wondering when the rug was going to get jerked out from under her. SoleMate, I have to disagree with you somewhat. I do think that more of the blame goes to the MP, BUT! It takes two to tango. If the OP really didn't know that they were M, that's different. I agree that the MP(or committed person) should never have opened the door but the AP didn't have to walk through it. I kept going back to my BF trying to convince myself it was b/c the sex was good. I don't blame my X, I can't. I was a willing participant. No one forced me to be his OW (or one of the many OW he had)
Author NoIDidn't Posted March 31, 2006 Author Posted March 31, 2006 I was rereading your post and just wanted to add this in response to this comment: I think its always more believable with a change of heart when the person comes to this conclusion WITHOUT GETTING CAUGHT. Otherwise, you are forever wondering if getting caught is what caused the turn-around or if its a genuine thing. Blind Illusion, I don't think that whether or not someone got caught is the determining factor in whether or not their change of heart is genuine. I haven't gotten caught doing many things that people would be horrified if they knew about my doing them but still changed my ways. And I *caught* my H, does that make his change of heart less sincere? It was an EA that only lasted for about 3 weeks. His change of heart was in the process b4 I *caught* him. Is it the concensus that I should think less of him b/c I caught him being naughty?
2sunny Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 No need to demonize them. Give them what they deserve! Just leave their sorry a$$ and take them for everything they have....
Blind Illusion Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 Blind Illusion, I don't think that whether or not someone got caught is the determining factor in whether or not their change of heart is genuine. I haven't gotten caught doing many things that people would be horrified if they knew about my doing them but still changed my ways. And I *caught* my H, does that make his change of heart less sincere? It was an EA that only lasted for about 3 weeks. His change of heart was in the process b4 I *caught* him. Is it the concensus that I should think less of him b/c I caught him being naughty? No, I don't think you should not give him another chance or think less of him simply because he was caught first. Nor can I judge the state of one's sincerity of feeling. For me, though, I would probably have more peace of mind knowing that he had this revelation before he was exposed . That way, I would think internal matters inside him(conscience) caused this instead of external factors (getting caught) that came to be. Listen though, since when you initially posted, I didn't know of your circumstances, so I will add this: History cannot be rewritten to the way we would prefer it to have been. All you have is this change of heart by him now. You must take it from there and I wish you well. I certainly don't want to put doubts in people mind. Lord knows, I have enough of my own.
MsCalisun66 Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 I am new but have been lurking for some time. I notice that when things are ending most tend to talk negatively about the MM. I just want to ask the question of why demonize him? Does it really help to make him the bad guy? Is it possible that he is a man that realizes the mistake he made/was making and got out? Could it be that he does realize what he would have lost if he lost his W and family (not just staying for security and stability)? Don't get me wrong, some MM are dogs - but not all are cheaters at heart. Some do it once and never again. I would love responses from anyone interested: OW/OM/BS/WS. Anyone? I know my exMM was a bad guy. I took me months to realize this. I didn't want to believe that someone could actually keep that "hook of hope" out there for me to keep grasping on. Our relationship was a long distance one, we had met online. We did meet each other a few times. I do think he did finally realize what he would lose if he left his wife, she is the breadwinner. Of course I can't blame him for everything, I have the power not to answer the phone or talk to him. It took me a long time to realize and to believe that he was just a liar. I never wanted to believe that he was full of it, but he was.
KnowHowLoveFeels Posted March 31, 2006 Posted March 31, 2006 My question is also two fold before I get called a liar. I am M now and a BW. I have been on both sides of this fence so I know better than to come down hard on someone who really did get caught up in a bad sitch. But I do feel that is incredibly unfair to generalize by saying that the W got the *booby prize*. Some things you just gotta go through before being able to say you'd never do them. Hi! I read your question with interest because I intentionally demonize my MM in an attempt to let go of him. It works on most days. Putting him down assures me that I didn't lose much. However, I agree that it is a double edge sword. By trashing him, I'd also feel dirty and used. I am still working on a balance here... I don't consider him as a *booby prize* because I know that he is extremely unpleasant to his wife. As for myself, I am almost certain that I don't want him to leave his W for me. It is just the ... bruised ego?? I really have to work on accepting rejection with grace. I think that's my problem. Thank you all of you in LS for helping me understand this last point. I am making progress every day. My husband is a good man - very stable, low drama, low risk type of person. I would never in a million year believe that he'd cheat on me or divorce me. So I am lucky in that department. He is... just not very exciting either... NoIdidn't: Read some of Owl's posts for reference on EAs. He's a very balance guy and is extremely generous with advice. Good luck!
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