blueberry Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 hi there hope your day is going better than mine!!! hubby came home late last night (he is trying to stay away so not to confront our probs). hes been sleeping on the couch since he decided to end it (about a week ago). he keeps saying he will talk to me about things and then he doesnt come home or whatever. im not calling him or bothering him and am trying to give him space (i dont want this marriage to end) this morning i found messages from this "friend" of his ...he swears they are "just mates" but hey - she is a stunning woman, so of course i dont like it (shallow me). they spent the day together with another mate and went shopping (a trip we had planned a while ago). i didnt say anything to him about the messages which hurt and upset me further ("that was OUR day" blah blah) im so upset with everything and i dont trust my behaviour at the moment (flying off the handle blah blah). i am going to spend the night at a work colleagues house. i emailed him to say "sorry but i cant come home tonight - i love you and i am sorry". hes been calling (although id be suprised if he has seen the email yet) but im not picking up the phone. i think he will just be calling to have a go at me and i really cannot afford to get upset at work today (already reapplied the mascara twice). thing is, if he thinks for one second that i am angry - he will turn it round and be angry with ME. he is very good at doing that. i dont want him to think i am angry - i want him to know how upset i am. am i doing the right thing by staying away tonight and not answering his calls? or should i call, explain the situation, listen to him rant and rave down the phone at me, cry, go outside smoke a packet of cigarettes and be unable to concentrate on my job for the rest of the day? guys - whats the best way to handle this? arrgghh!
amaysngrace Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 i think you really need some time and space to gather your thoughts. if an ending of your marriage is near, you should take time to reflect on yourself, your needs and desires. i would just explain to him you need time to sort things out, if he gives you hell for not coming home or avoiding his calls. if you decide you want to make it work, start acting like it, but there's no need to pretend, especially to yourself. see what is honestly best for you, accept it, and act on it. best wishes.
Author blueberry Posted March 28, 2006 Author Posted March 28, 2006 thanks for writing... thing is i have been trying so hard to give him what he needs right now (see previous posts). ive told him how i feel and everything. he is non-responsive. the mere sight of him seems to fill him with rage at the moment. but of course, i just want to run to him and console him - and then i remember that the cause of his upset is me. so you are right. i need to think about myself (a first) and i need to not be there tonight. i also need him to understand that i am upset and sad - not angry. just terribly sad. like big black birds are circling deep inside of me.
amaysngrace Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 it's a really sad thing when your marriage is in trouble. i have been there. all your hopes and dreams get flushed down the "loo" (in your vocabulary) it's a difficult thing to deal with, to say the least. just put yourself first, same as he is doing. things will all work out in the end. keep your chin up and i hope your day improves.
KittenMoon Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 You're not alone, blueberry. My ex seemed to be angered by the mere sight of me. It's easier for men to get angry than be sad. It's just how many of them are. It's immature, but there you go.
Author blueberry Posted March 28, 2006 Author Posted March 28, 2006 so true kitten! its an awful feeling - the one you love is hating you with equal amounts of passion just got an email from HIS best mate saying "whats going on??". i dont think i will reply. [COLOR=#333333]The secret of a happy marriage remains a secret.[/COLOR] [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][sIZE=2]-[COLOR=#0000ff]Henny Youngman[/COLOR][/sIZE][/FONT]
Walking away Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 If you want to save your marriage, get "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr. James Dobson. I am not kidding....this book is like the bible for saving relationships when only one person is fighting for it.... Read it and good luck!
Author blueberry Posted March 28, 2006 Author Posted March 28, 2006 any pearls of wisdom you can share now amaysngrace? is it basic "tough love" approach? should i remain standing tall with my trap zipped (both of them haha) rolling around my lounge with much gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands just isnt really attractive is it.....
francis Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 hi blueberry i'm not far from you, just south of London. i feel for you, and also think you are doing the right thing. you need space and time, perhaps longer than a night. if he will not communicate at all, refuses to confront the issues of your relationship, it is so frustrating for you. he is not being honest with his feelings. don't worry about making him angry. just take yourself out of the war zone for now. you need time out to think about what you want, how you feel, give yourself a breather. gather your friends around you, people you trust. have patience and be calm. gather your thoughts about what your next move should be.
blind_otter Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 You're not alone, blueberry. My ex seemed to be angered by the mere sight of me. It's easier for men to get angry than be sad. It's just how many of them are. It's immature, but there you go. Hah, preach it. I think some men are wired to respond to any negative emotion, sadness, anger, depression - with irritation or anger. It's like their default setting.
KittenMoon Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 Hah, preach it. I think some men are wired to respond to any negative emotion, sadness, anger, depression - with irritation or anger. It's like their default setting. A- freakin- MEN! This is how my ex has dealt! On one hand, it's nice to know it's not just him that's like this. On the other hand, the more I hear about it in other people the less I think there's a chance for him to grow out of it.
qnmc Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I am so sorry to hear about your marriage. I know this must be so tough for you. Here's a thought. Since things sound like they kind of spiral out of control when you're face to face, what do you think about agreeing to make this an email conversation? The risk you run is that since you can't simulate voice inflection something you say could be taken wrong. However, I've found in the past that this is a great way to organize your own thoughts and then present them without all of the emotion. Tell him this is why you want to discuss some things over email so that you can truly "hear" one another's view points. Agree that the conversations are to be as constructive as possible and that you will not try to take shots at one another. Agree that both of you will do your best not take what the other says out of context - that the things you tell each other are meant to ultimately make things better. I'd also emphasize that you are not angry, but that you are very sad about the situation. You may have to say this many many times, because the problem with us guys is that anything subtle is lost on us. I know, it's frustrating. And Kitten Moon is right in one respect, whereas women get sad when they're hurt, men get angry. However, "immature" is not the right word for us. Just like we don't necessarily understand why women cry so much, women don't understand why we get angry. I don't know why either. However, until we accept each other for the way we're wired as opposed to wishing for the way it could be we're not going to have successful relationships. We need to learn to accept each gender for the way we are. Now abuse is another story, if he's being abusive when he's angry (i.e. anything physical or threatening you), there's no excuse for it and you need to get out.
KittenMoon Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 However, "immature" is not the right word for us. Just like we don't necessarily understand why women cry so much, women don't understand why we get angry. Not to be arguementative, but I'm sticking with "immature" at least for my situation. My reasons are that this was the same way I, a female, dealt with things in my teen years. Something's bothering me? Grrr, ANGER! No constructive talk, no sharing how things made me feel, no real communication at all. Just elevated annoyance, anger, and lots of yelling, getting away from the situation as quickly as possible so I didn't have to face it. Which is what I got from my ex. So thusly "immature". Like I said, I only really have my ex to use as an example, but at the end it felt more like I was a mother with a teenage son than a girlfriend.
blind_otter Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 Not to be arguementative, but I'm sticking with "immature" at least for my situation. My reasons are that this was the same way I, a female, dealt with things in my teen years. Something's bothering me? Grrr, ANGER! No constructive talk, no sharing how things made me feel, no real communication at all. Just elevated annoyance, anger, and lots of yelling, getting away from the situation as quickly as possible so I didn't have to face it. Which is what I got from my ex. So thusly "immature". Like I said, I only really have my ex to use as an example, but at the end it felt more like I was a mother with a teenage son than a girlfriend. Yes. I agree....I also had huge anger issues for a long time. Rage. Because I am emotionally immature. I am working with that in therapy. I've made a lot of progress because instead of getting angry in arguments I can now make statements about my feelings.
qnmc Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 "I think some men are wired to respond to any negative emotion, sadness, anger, depression - with irritation or anger. It's like their default setting." KM and BO - Here's some insight into us dudes. The reason we get upset is because we are "fixers." When another guy approaches us about a problem, he is seeking advice. This is what we're used to... and why we do what is most frustrating to the fairer sex - give you advice. It's just the way we're wired. I do my best when an SO is upset about something not to give advice, but I still do it from time to time. When we can't "fix" your problem, we start to think it is something to do with us. We get confused and frustrated because we feel like we either can't help you or you're not letting us. Solution: the best thing to do is calmly (and I mean calmly) explain that you just need his ear and nothing more but that you appreciate that he wants to help you solve your problem (really, that's what we're trying to do, help you, not solve it for you). Also, emphasize that this has nothing to do with us (unless it does). Conclusion: women need to be more direct about what they need from us and men need to do a better job of not giving advice and not taking it personally when we can't "solve" your issues. A good book to check out on this is "men are from mars, women are from venus."
KittenMoon Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 gnmc- you're totally right and your insight is very on the mark. Unfortunately for me, I tried all that with my ex. I would tell him, "I am very upset about a problem. I know you can't fix it, and thusly I frustrate you, but all I want you to say is it's going to be alright. THAT calms me down." Or "I am in a bad mood from work, I don't mean to take it out on you, but please be aware of this if I get cranky with you." Or "You're annoying me a little tonight, I understand you're not trying to but can you please back off just a little and let me be a bit." (He's a bit hyperactive so he'd get really crazy and try to get rises out of me; I would politely ask him to back off several times until it became anger. One of my friends noted after the break-up that he felt so bad whenever my ex would act like this because it was obvious to HIM every single time when it was time for my ex to back off a little- my ex just DIDN'T GET IT!!!) I am always direct- I always ask for exactly what I want. I do my best not to make a guy have to read my mind. Again, it's probably just my situation. My friends and family have noted that my ex seemed much younger than me even though he was almost 2 years older. I guess I just outgrew him a bit maybe, and this drove him off.
Author blueberry Posted March 28, 2006 Author Posted March 28, 2006 i liked your insight q - it makes sense to me. he used to <argh past tense past tense> always get mad if i came to him with a problem and then didnt take his advice. i understand why now.... in my case i think hubby is a mixture of both. the only other woman he has lived with was his mother (who arrives tomorrow - argh) and i cant be held up to her mile-high measuring stick. immature versus stubborn male behaviour = highly confusing hybridman. francis - i wish i could stay away longer. i feel a great relief at not going home tonight (which came as a suprise). however, i have to look after mum-in-law who arrives tomorrow and knows nothing (and doesnt speak english so i cant explain to her). i have to get through 2 weeks of smiling and pretending everything is rosy. once shes gone - im gone send in the clowns - or at least their make-up!
blind_otter Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I agree with your assesment, G -- but not all men are whole enough to understand themselves why they are the way they are -- you have managed it. Not many do.
Author blueberry Posted March 28, 2006 Author Posted March 28, 2006 Unfortunately for me, I tried all that with my ex. I would tell him, "I am very upset about a problem. I know you can't fix it, and thusly I frustrate you, but all I want you to say is it's going to be alright. THAT calms me down." ************* EXACTLY. i told him when ive had a silly problem "all i need you to do hold me and tell me its going to be ok" his response? "how can i do that when i dont know what will happen?" LIE for chrissake! im not expecting a damn soothsayer or for him to whip out his all-seeing eye. i just want a cuddle and some kind words.
qnmc Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 "EXACTLY. i told him when ive had a silly problem "all i need you to do hold me and tell me its going to be ok"" That's great that you made it clear what you needed and BS that he still couldn't give it to you! Same to you KM, sounds like you tried to make him understand. I guess what I've been getting at earlier is I've either heard of or been in too many situations where although the female honestly thought she made it clear what she needed... she really hadn't. Anything less than direct and calm communication is often times lost on us. Crying paralyzes us. Most men rarely cry, but when we do it means that we have honestly reached our breaking points. Women on the other hand seem to cry as a release (and I think men would be much better off if we did too). Crying to us means the situation has hit critical mass. When a woman is crying we feel it is our fault. Because often times it is just a release of emotions for you and you have not reached critical mass, we get frustrated and confused by it because to us the severity of the situation may not warrant a crying session. We're seeing things through a male prism in these cases and need to do a better job of trying to see it from your perspective. I guess I'm on a bit of a crusade here for both sexes to understand that we need to be more direct with each other - in no uncertain terms - and continually remind each other in a calm manner of what we need... and then thank each other (as reinforcement) when we do provide what each other needs. I think too often we expect the other person to somehow "know" what we need. We need to do a better job of understanding that neither of us are mind readers.
KittenMoon Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 We need to do a better job of understanding that neither of us are mind readers. Note to self: Try dating a psychic.
the_alchemyst Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 ^ , Kitten. blueberry: I'm sorry to hear you are going through such a rough time in your marriage, and I am also very sorry to hear that your husband is being such a child. I believe that anger is one of the most cowardice of feelings. When you're angry, you are not really hurting yourself in any way, but rather projecting hurt onto others. By contrast, sadness has got to be one of the most significantly difficult emotions to deal with, as the majority of it projects onto you. I honestly don't understand why (most) men are such cowards in this regard. They just cannot admit to themselves, much less to others, that they are "sad," as if doing so would somehow deteriorate their manliness. Please. It is frustruating to the brink of insanity, really, when a male, whom is supposedly a "man" cannot bring himself to admit what he is feeling. Oh, no way! How can he, the "man," be . . . oh, dare I say it--sad? Ugh. Nope. He can't. What he does is retreat into his anger, since this allows him to bypass any actual sincere form of feeling. He just gets angry so that he "doesn't have to talk about it," since he is apparently incapable of doing this also. Wow. That's so hard: to get pissed and act like an immature "person" who is incapable of speech, much less actual communication. I will never truly agree with that of men being "fixers." I can see this being so when it comes to tangible objects, but not for feelings. If they really were such fixers, then many would not be so apt to run for the hills at the first sign of problem. Doing so is contradictory to their alleged "default settings." I think you need to leave him alone, bb. Seriously. Act like he does--pretend he's not even there. Maybe when he sees your "disinterest" he will come around. It could be that your wanting to talk about things is only making him want to talk about it even less. (Most) Men are babies like this, also.
Author blueberry Posted March 29, 2006 Author Posted March 29, 2006 good morning can i get an amen to that alchemyst! well, i stayed at my mates house last night. he didnt call. i waited till 11pm and called him to say "incase you were wondering, i am alive and ok". he said "where are you?" <duh>. i asked him if he wanted us to fix this marriage and he said..... . . .<drumroll please>... . . ...."i dont want to talk about it now". i'm busy muttering something to myself about horses and water....
francis Posted March 29, 2006 Posted March 29, 2006 this is weird, his reaction reminds me so much of my ex's replies to me i've been in a very hazy, vague state with my ex since he ended our relationship last year, back in May he has insisted that we keep in touch, won't leave me alone really, always making an effort to maintain that line of contact. but when i try to address the issues between us, he replies 'don't do this now' or 'i just want you to graduate'...he has totally shut down, and uses this idea that we cannot discuss our relationship until i have finished university. it's really weird. in the meantime, he offer me money, sends me gifts in the mail, needs to check up on my progress and schedules etc...but no talk of anything remotely linked with 'us'. blueberry, i feel your frustration and not being able to address the issues that are at the forefront of your mind. your patience is going to be tested here. but it's very difficult to know what else to say. you've either got to carry on peddling in the hope that he will reach the same destination, or get off the bike. i know you don't want to give up, but your patience will be tested. just be honest with yourself about what's really going on. a friend of mine just found out her boyfriend has been lying to her for the past three months. he was unhappy and had been cheating on her. he was caught by a mutual friend with another girl. neither of them had confronted the problems they had, he just went behind her back, deceived and lied to her. they were together six years. maybe you just have to be brave and face the reality that he may not want to save the marriage.
Author blueberry Posted March 29, 2006 Author Posted March 29, 2006 waaahhhh!!! but i dont want to accept it.... i'm in denial i guess. i'm going to call him today sometime and gauge his attitude. my mates last night were saying "dont call dont call"...and i thought to myself but why the hell not? i want to speak with him, hes not my boyfriend, hes my HUSBAND and i refuse to play games. surely i have some rights!! it is very frustrating for him not to consider my feelings. he said to me yesterday "whenever i feel sad about us, i think about our problems, i feel angry again and i can turn myself off". i wish it were that simple for me too.....
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