amaysngrace Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 hi. i was just wondering if anyone has found a way to have a healthy relationship with your ex-spouse so you can still be parents to the children. how much do you share with the ex? do you fill them in on every little detail or just the major stuff? was your break-up on good terms? or was one person bitter? i need some pointers here. he still hates me for leaving. and if we speak for more than a few words, he will call me all kinds of bad names and then i regret my decision for trying to have a normal conversation with him in the first place. he always brings up our marriage or attacks me personally, instead of talking about the children. i know it's not right to be this way. it's bad for the children. i just think that if one person is always angry, these kids will feel the need to pick sides. i think it's really important that we get along, or at least appear to for the children's sake. i just don't know what i should do or say to make this as pleasant as possible. i have seen his parents together, and they've been divorced longer than they were ever married. yet, when we would have birthday parties for our kids, they'd both show up w/ their new spouses but the tension between them was so intense. can anybody help me out on this one?
Curmudgeon Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 I wish I could but that was my experience as well. The ex severely alienated my two youngest daughters from me for 10 years and its only in the last two years that we've had relationships. Thankfully, now that they've gotten to know me (I helped get custody of the youngest away from the ex) they finally realize that I'm not the ogre they were taught, from a young age, to believe I was. The best you can do is never say a word against their father, encourage them to have their own, uninfluenced relationships with him and get to know him on their terms, not yours or anyone else's. Other than that, keep communications between the two of you minimal, businesslike and as cordial as possible and don;t be afraid to hang up the phone if he becomes unpleasant. By limiting contact you extinguish him. His rage can't survive without a target anymore than a fire can without oxygen. Deny him that. It's what worked with the ex. Not being able to get to me also drove her crazy(er).
Author amaysngrace Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 The best you can do is never say a word against their father, encourage them to have their own, uninfluenced relationships with him and get to know him on their terms, not yours or anyone else's. Other than that, keep communications between the two of you minimal, businesslike and as cordial as possible and don;t be afraid to hang up the phone if he becomes unpleasant. thank you for your wisdom. i kind of knew in my heart that it was an impossible situation i am hoping to achieve. i just wish the games didn't have to continue, i wish we could all be normal. i feel as though my children have been through enough, and was sort of wishing that our divorced relationship could be much more healthy than the married one, for their sake. i don't really let him know what's going on in their lives. he promised before he'd come get just my son on fridays so they could have father-son time, which i thought was just what my son needed. but he didn't even come once. i'm glad i never told my son of my ex's plans. he also said he'd call through the week to check in on them. it happened maybe three nights in a row in october, and then never again. he is a major let-down. but he always was, which is why i left. i just feel bad for my children really. their relationship with him will never be the normal one most kids have with their dads. but again, it never was. i remember one time my son was having a playdate. i brought my daughter to this child's house and the dad was home. he was playing with his kids. my daughter (4 yrs. old) said "everybody has a nicer daddy than me, even you mommy". i don't badmouth him. or at least i try not to. but if my children have a complaint, i acknowledge their feelings. they are 7 and 8. but i can't tell him about how they feel, it's not like he will change or even care really. but i document EVERYTHING. (my mom's idea) i'm sorry your children were poisoned against you for much of their lives. that's really sad. for you and them. you missed out and they did too. your ex was really wrong to harm them in that way. my ex's mom did the same thing to his dad. she spared no vulgarities to her children when describing their dad to them. but they grew up and see he isn't such a bad guy. i think it's a control thing. and i don't like controlling people very much, so i don't think i'd like to be one of them. i haven't even gotten a new man in my life. i'd hate to think how that's going to play out when it happens, although i have an idea. hmph! it's completely maddening at times. anyway, thanks for replying.
Author amaysngrace Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 oh, one more thing Curmudgeon, do you ever see your ex face to face? how does that go? i try to avoid it at all costs. i think the last time i saw him face to face was Christmas. were you the same way?
Curmudgeon Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Because we have five children, all now adults as of February, and share three grandchildren (with another on the way), we've had to share space periodically over the years for weddings, baptisms, birthdays, etc. I have always been able to be cordial while the ex has usually found a way to be stand-offish and unpleasant. Two years ago my two youngest daughters, then 16 and 20, left the ex's home because she did nothing and they had to support her over and above the child support I still sent for the youngest. The ex threatened court action and police involvement so I jumped back into it and in three court sessions in two different courts (probate and family law) sent her packing and got custody on my youngest away from her. The ex fled 500 miles south with her tail between her legs to take a menial job and life near her mother and sister. My best guess is that I'll never see, speak to or hear from her again. Three of our five children want nothing to do with her, one feels slightly connected and another one (youngest son) sees himself as her protector but I doubt that will last. The last time I saw the ex was in court where she made an ass of herself. A few years ago our oldest son married back east. My wife and I flew out for the wedding, as did the ex's mother, The ex was a no show even though my son and his bride were willing to pay her airfare and my wife and I (the ex never knew this) were going to take care of her hotel and meals. The woman is totally narcissistic with an entitlement attitude a mile wide. I just found out that she owes taxes on $63,000 in retirement funds she received when her second victim....errr....husband was killed in a car accident about eight years ago. She hasn't filed income taxes since and nor the IRS is after her. For all she's done, I wish her no hurt or harm and bear her no malice. I've also forgiven her. She doesn't know that, nor does she have to. I did it for me, not her. I never wished her anything but happiness. She just won't have it. Sorry to have rambled. For your sake and the childrens', I hope your ultimate experience is far better. My wife's ex was also a loser who never supported their daughters and wasn't available to them. I know how hurtful and harmful it can be, especially to the children.
Author amaysngrace Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 i heard narcissists get worse as they age. my ex owes the IRS about 15 K right now in back taxes. i don't owe a dime as was determined in the divorce decree. he forged my name on returns. i think i may still have a lien on my house from them though. i won't know unless i go for a loan. maybe you won't ever see her again. it's unfortunate that they are like this. they have no idea the damage they do. it's so one-sided. that was really nice you were going to pay her room and food. extremely kind. i hope your son wasn't too upset, but he most likely was. i guess you offered to help her out really for your son, right? cause i can't see myself doing something like that for my ex, only if it would please my children a great deal. it's an illness, what they have. and it's so sad for the kids. my son just doesn't understand his dad can't feel what others feel. luckily, we have good neighbors and i have two great BILs. plus my parents. will it be enough? only time will tell. i hope one day i will find a good man to be in our lives. i think the three of us are a good catch. i don't think i'm ready yet though. it's been just over a year. sorry to go on. but i think you and i really do have something in common.
Curmudgeon Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Yes, the offer was made for my son. It never got communicated to the ex, nor did the offer of flight tickets. My son (lives on the opposite coast) called his mother to tell her that he and his, now, wife were getting married and the first words out of her mouth were, "Well, take lots of pictures!" My son and his wife were so burned by that immediate dismissal they ultimately didn't want her there or have anything to do with her now. My wife, his stepmother, ended up in the role of "mother of the groom" which was not at all comfortable for her, even though my son and his wife really care for her. I do think that narcissists don't get better with age but, rather, worse. They don't mellow. They simply get all the more into themselves and more demanding. My guess is that the ex owes the IRS over $25,000 with tax, penalties and interest and she doesn't have it. She blew through her husbands retirement funds just as she did the half of mine she received in settlement. Hmmm! Wonder if she ever declared those?!?! I'm sure you and the children are a good catch and one day, someone will be very lucky to find you. There's certainly no rush. It takes time to settle down and settle in after so huge an upheavel as divorce. I lived like a monk for two years before I felt I was ready to try a date. We do have things in common -- broken marriages and children we care deeply for, not to mention unsatisfactory exs.
Author amaysngrace Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 yeah but you give me hope, just so you know. thank you
Curmudgeon Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Good! Keep the faith and don't ever give up hope. My wife did and stayed single for 18 years and uninvolved for the last 12 of them. We happened anyway! Your turn, the right one, will come!
reservoirdog1 Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 I guess this advice is more for your XH than for you, but I'll say it anyway. I still bear quite a bit of resentment towards my XW, for reasons I won't get into here. I don't particularly like being in her presence or having to speak to her. However, I do know that, like it or not, she's in my life because of the kids. So, my approach has been to do my absolute best to turn the interrelationship between her and me into something resembling a "business partnership." Most of the time it's cordial and civil, but nothing more. She'd like more but I don't want any more than that and am not prepared to give it. All we discuss is the children. In my case, it would be totally counter-productive for me to bring up XW's transgressions or other elements of the past every time we speak. But the way I've managed to avoid doing that is to try to purge my emotions from my dealings with her. It sounds like, for whatever reason, your XH isn't even capable of that, at least not yet. A few words and he goes off. There's nothing unreasonable in you expecting civility so that necessary conversations between you that are likely to last longer than a few words can actually happen without unpleasantness. Maybe you should write him a letter or email, telling him this?
Author amaysngrace Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 but if it doesn't happen, i'm okay with that too. i will keep my eyes wide open next time and not get charmed into anything. nobody's perfect and i really should've known. my ex actually wore a shirt that said "if nobody's perfect, i must be nobody". i think when i see imperfections in a guy, i'm actually going to appreciate them!
Author amaysngrace Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 Maybe you should write him a letter or email, telling him this? you know, this is not a bad idea. except i don't know his address or email addy. knowing him, he will try to charge me with harrassment or something. maybe i could give it to the children on visit days, but if he goes off into a mood, i won't want them with him if that were to happen. i don't know. i don't think he'd honor my wishes anyway. he's an extremely selfish guy...you just have no idea.
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