AManWithTroubles Posted March 26, 2006 Posted March 26, 2006 I'm sure you all have seen these many times before, but I've been looking for a place to get some peace of mind. I am unhappy with a "relationship" that my wife is having with a fellow co-worker. She swears they are just friends. Yeah, we've all heard that before. But, here we go. She has never seen him outside of work, but mainly because our lives don't allow much free time. She does spend the entire day with him at work, which is way more time than I get in a day, even her days off. Before I found a certain email, she always talked about this guy, younger guy even. Constantly about how much fun they have together at work. This was already getting to me, since I felt like we were best friends. Then, one day, she says she's not in love with me, and wants a separation. Well, her mother didn't allow that, and told us to get some counseling, which we are in right now. But a couple days after she told me she doesn't love me, I find this e-mail to her friend, a female friend from her college days. She talks about her new male friend at work. This email was sent to her before she told me that she doesn't love me. Here are some quotes: This kid (boy's name) is a really quiet and I had been back ... for a few weeks before he would actually talk to me. One day he started talking to me and told me that he is a twin so of course I started picking his brain. It is a little scary how much we have in common and how little I have in common with my husband but you know, that's just stuff. Maybe that is how it is after 10 years for anyone. I don't know, but this isn't a good time. It hasn't been for a long time but (boy's name) kinda makes it worse because the last thing I needed to know was that there was someone out there who was actually like me and gets me. I have spent a lot of the last 10 years living in my own little world, because we really don't have a lot besides the kids and football in common and this is turning into a confession.... He treats me like a girl, but I didn't get any flowers yesterday. You know what I mean? Maybe I am being blind, I know I am being blind, he has said things that made me think that this could be trouble, but thats why I am here, getting it all off my chest in a neat and orderly fashion. I kinda don't care if its trouble. That last paragraph in quotes is about the boy at work, who happens to be about 9 years younger than her. That is not about me, I gave her the appropriate Valentine's day gifts. We have 3 children, and I love her more than anything. I am attentitive. I listen to her when she talks, I call her and let her know when I'll be home. I ask her if she needs me to pick things up. I remember every little anniversary, even of our first kiss. What's up with this? I have noticed lately that she doesn't want to hear what I have to talk about, but I just figured that's the normal boredom that you find after ten years of marriage. If she were to settle with this kid, she will eventually tire of his stories too, right? I don't really care about her being friends with him, it's just that she has compared him to me, and that hurts. She is my best friend.
zoidberg Posted March 26, 2006 Posted March 26, 2006 I'm sorry you're going through this. I would say that this is at least an emotional affair. Does she know you know about this guy and have you talked about him in counseling? She may be idealizing him, and as long as she does that, counseling will never pay off. Good luck!
tigger Posted March 26, 2006 Posted March 26, 2006 Hi - as much as I've always known it, it's not only men who suck - hu? I don't know enough about this situation to go further than to tell you that: As a women - someone new paying attention to us is thrilliing. I can only imagine it's that much more thrilling when it's someone younger than you. I would say that though she might be YOUR best friend, it doesn't sound as though you are hers, and that might be where the problem is. While I give you all the kudos I can via posting, some times just remembering those "special dates", and little things aren't as important as one might think. I'll be honest, I some times forget those dates, they don't mean as much to me as they do to some. They are just dates, yes, they carry special memories, but they are dates. The most important thing, or should I say the best thing a girl could ask for is that no matter how long you have been together, no matter what condition you've seen her in etc - always let her know you love her and find her beautiful, and how very special she is to you. You say you don't have much time - then you should really make the best of the time you have. And - make yourselves just as important as your children are!!!!!!!!!!!!! While I commend parents on making sure you are taking the kids where they need to go, ensuring they get to do the things they want to do, more often than not, their lives become the children, and then they really don't have anything left in commen other than the children. All parents need to take time for themselves because it's very easy to get wrapped up into daily life, and it's not fun anymore. I think you should tell her what you read. If you haven't already. Be open and honest. It might be that is it too late for you guys, but that doesn't mean you won't find happiness some place else! PS: Yes, she will tire of his stories too - more over, if ever they have a relationship, she'll tire of his immaturity! Plus he'll probably tire of her and her familial responsibilities!
Author AManWithTroubles Posted March 26, 2006 Author Posted March 26, 2006 I have mentioned it, and she always gets defensive about it, and just kinda locks up without answering questions. She says there's nothing, and that he's just a friend at work. I understand that, but she doesn't get where I'm coming from. If we are having problems within our marriage, she needs to stop talking to him, because he creates something in her head, which is basically a guy she can talk to who doesn't expect anything in return. At least, that's how I look at it. And she often brings up things that he is interested in, that she has never liked before in her life. Plus the sudden interest in working out and wearing sexier panties. There are just too many scary things going on, but this boy makes me think that she won't look at me the same, with someone else out there having so much in common with her and all. Oh yeah, the therapist knows, but my fears seem to get swept aside. It's all about my wife and her problems now.
tigger Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Try not to let the therapist trouble you, because in the light of the situation, she is the one with the issue. Once her and the therapist get down to "why I am looking outside my marriage for someone to talk to etc", things might actually start looking up. On the flip, you could get a therapist of just your own, someone you can talk with just about you and what you are going through with all of this. Therapy can only work, if you want it to work. Thus, if she is still talking with him, laughing with him - feeling "special" because of him, this isn't going to work. You know the old saying "it's not you, it me". 99% of the time, that is true. You've done nothing to make this happen, it was within her. She's going to need to figure this out on her own, there is really nothing you can do about it until then. In the meantime, put yourself first. Put your feelings first. She may get mad if you say you don't like her talking to him at work. Don't allow her to turn it around on you. Ensure you have your say about what this is doing to you, and your family, you have a right to how you feel! She needs to accept that, and own up to it. She gets mad because she is guilty. The gym and cute little panties: TROUBLE!!! I wouldn't trust her. I wouldn't prolong the inevitable! Since she is the one with issues, try to "talk" her into finding a temporary place to live. This might snap her back into reality - but you do not have to put yourself through this. On the other side princess charming might be waiting!
Author AManWithTroubles Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 Even if she keeps insisting that he's just a friend and completely harmless? Shouldn't I put some faith in her? But I tend to think that she is just being naive. He even knows that we are having problems in our relationship. She thinks that it would be mean for me to tell her she can't have a friend, and I feel bad for telling her that I wish she wouldn't be friends with him. Oh well, I'm probably screwed. Oh, one other thing, she said once that he has her laughing all day long and keeps her from killing herself. See what I mean, she has her own new security blanket. How useful does that make me?
travellingman Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Shouldn't I put some faith in her? no, and I would stop therapy until you deal with this he is her drug, and you being nice isn't going to change that feeling she is getting from him best thing you can do is make her think about her life without you
Sup? Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Even if she keeps insisting that he's just a friend and completely harmless? Shouldn't I put some faith in her? But I tend to think that she is just being naive. He even knows that we are having problems in our relationship. She thinks that it would be mean for me to tell her she can't have a friend, and I feel bad for telling her that I wish she wouldn't be friends with him. Oh well, I'm probably screwed. Oh, one other thing, she said once that he has her laughing all day long and keeps her from killing herself. See what I mean, she has her own new security blanket. How useful does that make me? UM, NO! In this case it spelles Marriage Counseling and QUICK! Gym, and wearing CUTE LITTLE PANTIES! Nope, she has in her sights this guy. Lots of posts in here have said about these warning signs of an affair, changes in apperance, new clothes, new underwear. It doen't mean though it has yet gone phyisical, however, some here may say it has. You do need to remind her of her vows to you, I don't know if this sounds right though..... Help anyone?!!!?!! Should he confront her about these warning signs of a possible starting to an affair? Oh, and there is no such thing as WE'RE JUST FRIENDS!
Author AManWithTroubles Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 Actually, I finally put the foot down. I told her that she has to stop being his friend while we are going through our things in counseling and such. I told her that if she wants to be his friend, then she needs to find a way to separate right now, because I won't allow it until we both feel secure in our own relationship. She still doesn't get it, but she has reluctantly agreed to this. She then tried to guilt me by saying something about losing a friend and she sounded sad about it. Screw that, she shouldn't be picking up guy friends that she feels so strongly about until she is comfortable in her marriage. I don't think I'm being a jealous husband, just a smart one. Did I do the right thing? How do I keep tabs? Should I keep tabs, or just trust her to do what's right? I hate being a jealous husband, makes me sound so insecure. But the fact of the matter is, we are having an insecure relationship right now. How dare she go out and find someone while that's going on?
whichwayisup Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Why not ask her how she would feel if you had a 'woman' friend, who you confided in about your marital problems. Just someone to hang out with, share a laugh and someone who will listen to you. And all this woman is to you is a "friend." I'm betting your wife WOULD have a huge problem with this, especially if the woman was younger than you too... Another approach is ask her to invite him for dinner so you can meet him. If she is 'just' friends with him, then why can't you be included too? Just something to think about. You could install a keylogger on her computer so you can read her emails/Instant messages etc. I'm not sure if they are having an affair, but she is getting close, if not already, to having real feelings for him. He is providing her a safe and open, friendly 'friendship' that could easily turn into something else...Especially if her feelings get the best of her. And I'm sure he is fully aware of her feelings too, and will wait until the right time to possibly make a move...So, that is why I think you have to talk to her, let her know that their friendship is a threat to your marriage.
whichwayisup Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 She thinks that it would be mean for me to tell her she can't have a friend, and I feel bad for telling her that I wish she wouldn't be friends with him. Oh well, I'm probably screwed. She should have friends, women friends who she can gab with and talk to about things. Not this guy. He is 'waiting' in the wings, so to speak. I think deep down you know this too. Maybe she isn't seeing that far ahead and believes he is just providing a friendship. If he is a good friend to her, he should be encouraging her to work things out at home and not monopolizing her time for his own selfish reasons.
Author AManWithTroubles Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 Yeah, he has actually undermined the relationship once that I know of. I bought my wife a rose, and brought it to her at work. She forgot the rose, and I was very upset. I took it kind of as a hint that she doesn't want to accept my gift. I felt like it meant something. Well, she went in the next day to pick it up, her day off, he was there. I found out through one more email, that he told her that she should be trusted more, and he smiled at her. Well, that's what the email said.
whichwayisup Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Don't take anything as a hint. Directly TELL her how she's making you feel. Sooner or later she has to decide what she wants to do. It isn't fair for you to sit and wait, while she's playing footsey with some guy at work. WTF? There are tons of ways to find out what is going on. You can hire a PI, or ask a friend to do some checking up on her for you (someone you really trust) and install that keylogger. The thing is, she is not thinking clearly and definately isn't making you number one on her priority list. She is needing his attention and enjoying it, getting used to it like a bad habit. You have to stop this NOW.
Author AManWithTroubles Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 By the way, she denies what he said about the rose, but she told me, plus, my spying butt had copied another email. This stuff makes me feel so bad, spying on my own wife. Anyways, here it is, her words to her friend: I told him how my husband reacted to me leaving the rose at work and he made it seem like I should have been trusted more. I can't remember what he said, but I don't know if it means anything. So, I confront her about his undermining the relationship in this way, and she says, no he didn't say anything. But I see this. What is up? Why am I defending myself against some kid who makes just above minimum wage? She was miserable when I had no money, what's she gonna get from him? My god, if she ends up with him, that would hurt my self-esteem so bad, besides the fact that I would lose my wife, who means everything to me. He is ugly even, and she admits to him being nowhere near as good looking as me. I'm just gonna stop now.
lilly36 Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 it is my belief that when someone isn't happy, they easily redirect feelings toward something/one that they feel makes up for what is making them unhappy...my guess is that were your wife to end up with this guy...it wouldn't be too long before she was unhappy and again looking towards someone else... the bottom line is that your wife needs to realize what she needs to fulfill herself. supposedly, the average couple falls in and out of love several times during their relationship....the point is that you work it out and getting thru in the end will make your love stronger. I think it is odd that her mother wouldn't "allow" a separation...her mother has nothing to do with what you to choose to ultimately do, but I think counseling is the best option. This younger guy flirting with her makes her feel attractive and wanted...which is something that is often forgotten in the hub-bub of daily life--work, children and household obligations. You two have to find a way to reconnect- find things that you two can enjoy together a few times a month-- not a wordless dinner date, either. I used to waitress and was always amazed at the amount of couples I would wait on that barely spole to each other thru the entire meal... anyway, llike I said, in this process-- find something to do together-- talk abot when you first met, and how you fell in love, etc. I don't think that asking her to stop this friendship with this guy is unreasonable, and if your wife is truly committed to healing your relationship, that shouldn't even be an issue. Don't know if I helped, but good luck!
whichwayisup Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Maybe it's time to for you to open her eyes...Meaning, letting her know that the grass isn't greener on the otherside of the fence and if she is planning on having an affair on the side she can move out and you two can get a divorce. That may upset her, she may even freak out and deny it all, but if she really wants your marriage to work, she has to end with this guy - OR you tell him to back off! Start fighting back, don't be passive, sit and wait for him to make his move on her! I'm telling you, she is not thinking of leaving you for this guy - She is just being selfish and thinking of herself! She wants to have her cake and eat it too.
Ladyjane14 Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 This sounds more like a "crush" than an EA to me. I don't know why I get that impression ....but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that this woman is more or less unhappy in her life and looking for diversion. She's searching outside the marital relationship though. And THAT usually means there are unmet ENs within the relationship. Could be that she hasn't even identifed what it is that she feels is missing. Sometimes people who feel helpless to fix the problems in their life...invent a whole new problem. It's easier to deal with something that's more concrete....even if you have to manufacture it for yourself.
Author AManWithTroubles Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 Interesting ladyjane14. One question, I'm a noob at this relationship forum stuff here. What is an EN? Emotional something? But she always does mention something about looking for definition. Would she maybe be creating an affair, just to have some definition to our problems? Here's another quote from another e-mail, "I wish it was as easy as me having an affair, you can define that, you can even recover from that." I don't know why she thinks I can recover from that, but what the hey. And when I ask her to tell me how she feels about things, she always says that she feels nothing. I don't get it. How can you feel nothing?
Ladyjane14 Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 ENs are Emotional Needs. These are usually the things that a person needs from their partner in order to feel content and maintained in the relationship. For example, most folks have an EN for fidelity in their relationship. They need a faithful partner. And most have an EN for fiscal responsibility. They need a partner who doens't waste all the family's resources. ENs vary though. My husband has an EN for conversation. He NEEDS a certain amount of face-time in with me listening to him. I, on the other hand, have an EN for time alone. So you can see how we can run aground if we aren't watching ourselves. There are books available to tell you more about ENs. His Needs / Her Needs by Harley, or The Five Love Languages by Chapman are good resources. And when I ask her to tell me how she feels about things, she always says that she feels nothing. I don't get it. How can you feel nothing? It's common for people who are suffering through depression to say things of that nature. Has she had a depression screening recently?
Ladyjane14 Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Would she maybe be creating an affair, just to have some definition to our problems? People who do that are seldom aware that they are distracting themselves from the REAL issues btw. Usually, they become focused on something or someone else as a means of evading a problem that seems vague or insurmountable. It becomes something more like a 'fixation' or 'obsession', and it's attractive BECAUSE it allows them to take the focus off of whatever it it they feel they can't define or repair.
Author AManWithTroubles Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 So, in your opinion, should I not worry about her "friendship", or should I ask her to let up on it while we work on ourselves? I'm afraid of her "friendship" with this boy to distract her, and not allow her to work on us as hard as she would if he didn't exist.
Owl Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 LJ- Not sure I totally agree with you my friend. This DOES sound like at least an EA, perhaps even PA to me. No, you shouldn't 'ask' her to put her friendship on hold with OM. It won't work. She'll either refuse to do so point blank to you, or she'll lie to you and say that she did but still remain in contact with him at work. LJ has the right of it in a lot of ways. Start figuring out what EN's your wife values the most, and work to meet them. Start making yourself the BETTER choice between him and OM...and do things for YOURSELF as well. Take up an old hobby that you miss or something. And at the same time, you need to start gathering more information on the situation. Install a keylogger on your home computer so that you can capture any IM's or emails that they exchange. Use it to get her passwords to these accounts and take a look at them to see what kind of communication she's sharing with him or others. Invest in a digital voice recorder, and place it in her vehicle so that you can hear her phone conversations when she's driving by herself. Affairs REQUIRE intense communication. And so trying to track that communication between them will help you get the 'proof' you need of what's going on. And, be ready to USE that proof. When you do have it, confront your wife clearly about what you know. If at all possible, don't give her any way to know HOW you got your proof...this is important for you to be able to verify her actions after you confront her. Be ready to expose this if need be too. If she doesn't end the affair on her own, then ask her friends and family and co-workers for help in getting her to end the affair. Come back here and talk with LJ and I before you do this...lots of important things to track when/if it gets to that point.
Ladyjane14 Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 I'm afraid of her "friendship" with this boy to distract her, and not allow her to work on us as hard as she would if he didn't exist. Her friendship with this boy is either appropriate....or it's inappropriate. You don't get to decide which one. She's a grown woman, right? You can't keep tabs on her 24/7 and you can't make her decisions for her. She'll do whatever she's going to do, with or without your blessing. All you can do is to choose what your reaction is going to be if her friendship with him crosses your boundaries. With that in mind, your boundaries should be clear to your wife and the consequences of crossing them should be 100% predictable. Your boundaries are the minimum of your ENs, things that make it possible for you to stay married to her at all. They're your deal-breakers. As far as "worrying" about her friendship with this guy...there are two people in your marriage, and you're one of them. So, your ENs are important too, not just hers. You can't be happy when you're feeling threatened. Your wife needs to know how you feel about that. In my situation, when my husband allowed inappropriate friendships with other women....I opened the door to his cage. I outlined the basics of what behavior I could tolerate, and still remain as his wife. Then, I concentrated on repairing my end of the relationship. He did a fairly good job of staying within my boundaries. One or two little things came up...but otherwise he responded in a positive way to having his ENs met and to having freedom from my 'perceived' controls.
Ladyjane14 Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 LJ- Not sure I totally agree with you my friend. This DOES sound like at least an EA, perhaps even PA to me. Ooops...I nearly missed your post, Owl. Yeah, I'm not sure on this one either. I haven't seen much that indicates the boy is "into" her. He could just be a friendly boy....??? A wait-and-see approach might be in order.
Author AManWithTroubles Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 I have installed a keylogger. Makes me feel like crap, spying on my wife like that. But I suppose I have already done so. I can only wait and see from here, I suppose. I'll keep in touch, before I make any other moves.
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