Marrying and Dating Outside of Your Class

[No Stress Lady]

 

I was taught that the true measure of *class* (or lack of) is how you treat people of ALL classes - not just those in YOUR *class*.

 

Very true - well said !!!!!!!! Class does NOT equal money!!!

[SmoochieFace]

Very true - well said !!!!!!!! Class does NOT equal money!!!

 

Yes, it is true. If more people would incorporate that into their thinking we would have less problems in the world... more cooperation and less competition.

[Pyro]

yeah RIGHT.

 

I went to a private school when I was younger, and I had one friend whose family was loaded (well most people who went there were loaded)....her mother was the cheesiest, most garish, most classless person I've ever met. Whenever I think neauvou riche, snobby upper class woman who has nothing to be snobby about, I remember her. Ugh.

 

I deal with the public on a daily basis and the richest ones tend to be the fakest and most stuck-up of all people. That is not class. Class is having the proper manners, kind, and being thankful for what he/she has been blessed with.

[BeFree]

I deal with the public on a daily basis and the richest ones tend to be the fakest and most stuck-up of all people. That is not class. Class is having the proper manners, kind, and being thankful for what he/she has been blessed with.

 

Absolutely right! My bf is from a blue collar family, I was raised white collar. He has way more manners, kindness and values than any rich person I know.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

the richest ones tend to be the fakest and most stuck-up of all people. That is not class. Class is having the proper manners, kind, and being thankful for what he/she has been blessed with.

 

I completely agree with you!

 

I do have snobby rich friends. They have good manners and are kind to friends. But they can be so rude to service workers, such as waiters, policemen, etc. Why do you think they act this way toward these people?

[brightskies]

Well, you're actually dealing with 2 issues here: "class" and money.

 

Class is having the proper manners, kind, and being thankful for what he/she has been blessed with.

 

Riddler's is a good definition of "class" or being "classy." I think it starts with having a good upbringing -- one that teaches you to treat people well, overall being an ethical person. It also involves a certain refinement, civility, and restraint. It also involves being "tasteful," but that's a whole other discussion. Being "cultured" and "educated," I think, DO add dimension to one's "classiness." Socio-economic class (where you come from and what you have) as opposed to socio-behavioral class (how you interact) can be connected or disconnected depending on one's environment.

 

Case in point: Paris Hilton -- Very, very rich? Yes. Classy? No.

 

Like so many other posters said, money and class aren't inherently exclusive. But money, in of itself, can be a good thing. It gives one some leeway and freedom. Flaunting it to make other people feel inferior isn't cool. But there's no need to feel badly if you have money, inherited or earned, either.

 

Alpha had a good point, that money can help increase one's "class" -- you can expand your horizons through more education, exposure to new ideas or cultures, lessen one's ignorance -- generally become a more well-rounded person more easily with more money. You don't have to be born with "class," it's something that can be developed. But having money can certainly make attaining it less of a struggle .

 

Can it be a relationship hurdle? Sure, it can be tricky. But it's workable if you have compatible core values and goals.

[brightskies]

the social heirarchy in america is alive and well but it is hidden and rarely talked about. Its not like in India where you have a well organized and understood social stratiation.....the same exists here in America.

 

Regarding strictly socio-economic class, this is very true. The idea that the US is completely free of socio-economic definition is complete bull. Heck, even the communists had an elite class.

[Pyro]

Well, you're actually dealing with 2 issues here: "class" and money.

 

 

 

Riddler's is a good definition of "class" or being "classy." I think it starts with having a good upbringing -- one that teaches you to treat people well, overall being an ethical person. It also involves a certain refinement, civility, and restraint. It also involves being "tasteful," but that's a whole other discussion. Being "cultured" and "educated," I think, DO add dimension to one's "classiness." Socio-economic class (where you come from and what you have) as opposed to socio-behavioral class (how you interact) can be connected or disconnected depending on one's environment.

 

Case in point: Paris Hilton -- Very, very rich? Yes. Classy? No.

 

Like so many other posters said, money and class aren't inherently exclusive. But money, in of itself, can be a good thing. It gives one some leeway and freedom. Flaunting it to make other people feel inferior isn't cool. But there's no need to feel badly if you have money, inherited or earned, either.

 

Alpha had a good point, that money can help increase one's "class" -- you can expand your horizons through more education, exposure to new ideas or cultures, lessen one's ignorance -- generally become a more well-rounded person more easily with more money. You don't have to be born with "class," it's something that can be developed. But having money can certainly make attaining it less of a struggle .

 

Can it be a relationship hurdle? Sure, it can be tricky. But it's workable if you have compatible core values and goals.

 

I agree that having money can help assist making an individual classy. It does open there world up to new things. Art museums, science centers, the theater just to name a few. When money starts to change you personally is when it gets out of hand.

[No Stress Lady]

Seems to me that in the US it's ALL about money - here in the UK it's also about money but there is the added dimension of our centuries old monarchy and all its offshoots - Earls, Lords, Viscounts etc etc etc.

 

It makes me laugh to hear a4a talking about being from an "upper class" background because her perception of it is nothing like our definition of it here in the UK!!!!!!!!! :lmao:

 

We have the rich - who are often anything BUT classy, we have the Upper Classes who are often anything but classy too.

 

As for marrying "out of your class" - well it shouldn't be a problem if you both share a level of intelligence and a desire to expand your horizons.....as lots of posters have pointed out.

 

As Smoochieface said - a truly classy person will get along with and treat everybody - no matter what their background - with grace, good manners and consideration. That's true class.

 

Certainly money can help socially if it's used to further one's education, enable one to travel, enable one to enjoy "culture" - be it the theatre, a gallery, a concert, a book - whatever - all these things will help social situations flow smoothly. As will a trip to the races or to the bowling alley or to a theme park or to a monster truck rally!!!!! Personally I think the classiest people are those who can seamlessly mix with everyone and treat everybody with kindness and sensitivity!!!!!

[SmoochieFace]

As Smoochieface said - a truly classy person will get along with and treat everybody - no matter what their background - with grace, good manners and consideration. That's true class.

 

Most *rich* people that I have known... or people who THINK they are *rich* ... subtly and not-so-subtly make it appear that they are *above* me. That's not class - that's stuck-up pompous arrogance.

[LongTallSally]

not all people with money are jerks. you shouldn't put people down just because they have something you don't.

[a4a]

 

Certainly money can help socially if it's used to further one's education, enable one to travel, enable one to enjoy "culture" - be it the theatre, a gallery, a concert, a book - whatever - all these things will help social situations flow smoothly. As will a trip to the races or to the bowling alley or to a theme park or to a monster truck rally!!!!! Personally I think the classiest people are those who can seamlessly mix with everyone and treat everybody with kindness and sensitivity!!!!!

 

Why yes lets treat Charles Manson with kindness and sensitivity too....

 

Please: In the above your "laugh at me", so in your own words that shows your lack of class regarding treating me with kindness and sensitivity.

 

And no matter what you do have in life be it material or for that matter even physical looks, there will always be another with more than what you have. So why worry about it, why get bent out of shape over it. Why not just say that is great! Good for you!

[No Stress Lady]

Why yes lets treat Charles Manson with kindness and sensitivity too....

 

Please: In the above your "laugh at me", so in your own words that shows your lack of class regarding treating me with kindness and sensitivity.

 

And no matter what you do have in life be it material or for that matter even physical looks, there will always be another with more than what you have. So why worry about it, why get bent out of shape over it. Why not just say that is great! Good for you!

 

Whoooooo!!! Calm down Mrs - I wasn't laughing at you a4a - more at the differences between here and the US in what "upper class" is taken to mean. In our class system "upper class" tends to mean titled/aristocracy - not necessarily just "rich"!!!!!!! And you did specifically state that you considered yourself to be from an "upper class background" - I just think that has a somewhat different meaning in the US to what it has here.

 

And what on earth does Charles Manson have to do with anything???!!!!!!! Next time I run into a notorious serial killer I'll keep your views in mind I'm talking about how you treat the people you meet in day to day life - not about mass murderers for Pete's sake.

 

Yes I agree with you that being materialistic is a waste of time - of course there'll always be someone richer or better looking out there - I personally have no issues at all with people having money - some of my friends are extremely well off, some of them aren't - we all get along just fine. I also don't judge people for not having money - it's their personality that counts, whether rich or poor.

[a4a]

Whoooooo!!! Calm down Mrs - I wasn't laughing at you a4a - more at the differences between here and the US in what "upper class" is taken to mean. In our class system "upper class" tends to mean titled/aristocracy - not necessarily just "rich"!!!!!!! And you did specifically state that you considered yourself to be from an "upper class background" - I just think that has a somewhat different meaning in the US to what it has here.

 

And what on earth does Charles Manson have to do with anything???!!!!!!! Next time I run into a notorious serial killer I'll keep your views in mind I'm talking about how you treat the people you meet in day to day life - not about mass murderers for Pete's sake.

 

Yes I agree with you that being materialistic is a waste of time - of course there'll always be someone richer or better looking out there - I personally have no issues at all with people having money - some of my friends are extremely well off, some of them aren't - we all get along just fine. I also don't judge people for not having money - it's their personality that counts, whether rich or poor.

 

My point is that people spew garbage about kindness, blah blah and do not practice it themselves. There are a handful of people that will admit they do this, I have been guilty of such. I have also been guilty with good reason at times.

 

Now if the world could just all join hands and decide on one favorite flavor of ice cream we would have peace and harmony.

 

But in reality their is a big difference between general respect and kindness and sensitivity. And sorry to burst the utopia bubble but we all know people that do not deserve to be treated with respect, kindness, or dignity. A child molester comes to mind, rapist, drug dealer, or even a thug.

 

We form these judgements no matter how much we try to deny it. Even the most rank of scum will pass judgement on those with class.

 

Actually my original post idea was more about something along the lines of the movie "pretty woman". Have you never been embarassed by a person you were with that did not have the tact or education to handle themselves in a situation that required certain behavior?

 

Regardless if it is a date to the opera or a Nascar race......one who burps and passes gas in public does not show class.

[mental_traveller]

Curious about this and the problems associated with marrying and dating outside of your class.

 

Have you done this? Find it difficult? Did you marry Up or Down the class scale? (talking class and exposure to culture here).

 

I did and it certainly is not easy at times.

 

Never been married, but dated out of my class (middle class) the majority of the time. Usually I've gone out with women with little income or education, and some of the time with v well off and well educated girls. I've tended to avoid people from a similar background to myself. I guess I just find the differences interesting, and I prefer the spontanaeity of people who don't really think or care what life will be like when they're 5, 10, 20 years older. My worst nightmare date would be a college educated middle class girl who has solid career goals and ambitions, before settling down in her early/mid 30s to have 1-2 kids, then going back into the workforce. Give me a cocktail waitress or trust fund heiress any day.

[mental_traveller]

Agreed.

 

They have to be compensating for something if they're doing that. Big time.

 

Why? Maybe $500 simply isn't a big deal to them, or they care more about aesthetics or foot comfort than you.

[cutegirl]

I love this thread, I am really fascinated about the class structure in America!

 

 

The Ny Times did a GREAT series about the class structure in America.

Here is a chart so you can see where you stand in terns of class

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/20050515_CLASS_GRAPHIC/index_01.html

 

After I entered in all the values it says I'm in the 55th percentile

It's mainly my education and occupation that brought it down. My income is high according to the chart (97th percentile), but I didn't attend college (I'm in the 48rth percentile) plus I'm in sales and anything having to do with sales is not very "high-class".

 

and they also have some great articles here. http://www.nytimes.com/pages/national/class/index.html

 

At first I was not aware of the class distinctions in America, beause I went to school learning that we were all equal, I thought class was more prevalent in the United Kingdom...

 

Well anyways, I was not brought up wealthy, and unfortunately I don't really get along with my mother these days, but I grew up in the Netherlands and lived there until I was around 12 yrs old or so, and I was exposed to a lot of culture I suppose even thought we were not rich. I did attend the opera/ballet a few times, my mother used to go to museums a lot, so I suppose I was exposed to some sort of more refined "culture". We also visited different countries such as France, England, I got to see the Louvre and all that jazz.

 

When we came to America I was less exposed to the more refined things in life, I also had a rough time getting along with my mother when I was a teenager and we didn't really have time or money to do things such as travel or go to the opera or anything of the sort.

 

It's strange because I don't even know what class I am in. Both my parents went to college, my mother went to college in Vietnam though (I'm asian but was just born in Holland) and my father went to college in the US. My father also used to be a diplomat for the embassy so he knows a lot of "high-class" people, prominent people in the government in Europe and such.

 

Even though my mother is not rich today, I think she has very high class leanings because of how she was raised. She was born in Vietnam but actually flew to boarding school, she attended some sort of Catholic school for rich kids. I myself wasn't raised really "high class" once I was in my teens, I was more into watching Mtv and going to the mall and more such "lower class" pursuits.

 

And also I did not go to college so that probably brings my class a few knotches down, but even though I did not attend college, I don't think I'm quite lower-class because I was exposed to more "cultured" pursuits when I was young so it made me more aware of what the world has to offer. My bf on the other hand comes from a more lower-class family, he has never even left the country and I can't really see him enjoying fine art or anything like that.

 

I also think your profession has a lot to do with your class. I saw a chart once on the NY times website which actually lists which professions were considered most "high class". I believe that doctors and lawyers were on top of that list. Now my job is EXTREMELY low class, I'm in on-line internet sales, and anything to do with sales is considered low class, let alone the things that I sell

 

I don't think class has necessarily to do with how much money you have, but more as to how exposed you are to the finer things in life and your upbringing.

 

There are a lot of VERY WEALTHY people who are still considered lower class such as some footballer's wives in England I read about such as that Colleen woman. For example flaunting designer logos or wearing head-to-toe designer is actually considered tacky, while being more discreet

connotates more class.

 

Anyone that has a little bit of money can travel but it's the things you do once your there that can pinpoint to the type of upbringing you had. When your in France do you just go to the nearest club and just party and drink all night, or do you know about the actual historic places and their significance?

[cutegirl]

Also in those Ny Times articles I posted there was a very eye-opening section about how people from different social "classes" were treated differently at the hospital during an emergency. Of course the wealthiest guy, a millionaire architect got the best treatment compared with the other people in the article. Of course it's something that I'm aware of already, but it's a bit disheartening to see it made so clear like that, that if you have more money your obviously more likely to survive and live longer.

[cutegirl]

I'm also curious to know as to how the class structure works in England? I heard that it's a lot more pronounced than in America and that there's less social mobility. I also heard that you can tell what class a person is from through their accent and what city/area they were born in?

[Touche]

I'm also curious to know as to how the class structure works in England? I heard that it's a lot more pronounced than in America and that there's less social mobility. I also heard that you can tell what class a person is from through their accent and what city/area they were born in?

 

That's somewhat true in the US too.

[jerbear]

I'm also curious to know as to how the class structure works in England? I heard that it's a lot more pronounced than in America and that there's less social mobility. I also heard that you can tell what class a person is from through their accent and what city/area they were born in?

 

True in US. A mixture of many class structures based on economics, education, social, and pedigree.

 

The US is closer to a meritocracy and allows more social mobility in ones lifetime. As always it is easier to go down than up.

 

Many of my ex's were higher class than me in a combination of education, social, pay, or education & family pedigree.

[cutegirl]

That's somewhat true in the US too.

 

Yea, I live in California and I heard that there is a lot of old money in Pasadena especially, although I don't know anyone who lives there and wasn't even aware of this fact because I'm not in the "know" I guess... I always thought it was Newport Beach, but I guess that's not really considered "high-class" even though it's affluent.

 

It's hard to tell though, in So Cal, all the young girls talk the same, with the valley girl accent and say "like" a lot, whether they are rich or poor so it's more difficult to tell.

[burning 4 revenge]

i spit on the petit bourgeoisie

[cutegirl]

I also just realized that the fact that I am so into "class" and appearing "upper class" probably means that I'm middle-class Usually it's the middle-people who like to impress others and be flashy and buy things to impress, when the upper class are more subtle and sometimes even dress down.

 

I admit I'm like this sometimes, I like to be flashy and buy designer clothes sometimes and drive a luxury car because I think it will impress someone Sadly, I think these are are habits of middle-class people more than upper class.

 

Really high-class people probably don't discuss crass topics such as "class" and "money", especially if they've known from the time of their birth that they were elite. It's only the middle-class people, or people who grew up poor and then became rich who are into appearing "upper-crust", the real elite already KNOW that they have "arrived."

 

I am also really into reading about the NY social scene, anyone ever read

NewYorkSocialDiary.com ? I wonder sometimes who all these people are and how they got to be so glamorous and wealthy, wearing haute couture all the time (I've read that a lot of the gowns/couture is borrowed though from designers) and going to all those fancy charity balls? I am guessing most were just born into high society, such as the Traina sisters for example (their mother is Danielle Steele). That blonde Mortimer girl appears to be the toast of the town now, I think she married into the family?

[MarnieGirl]

Both of our families are probably just about the same, mine is a bit higher than his. But that doesn't really matter to me, I just can't be with someone who is stupid and has no idea what is going on in the world around them. Maybe having easier access to things (travel, education) made that possible though, for both of us to be pretty level with each other.