Legalized Prostitution. Good or Bad?

[Pink_Tulip]

Catgirl- I couldn't agree more that drug testing for strippers is a total joke. But brothels in NV are very strict about drug testing AND HIV testing. It is not a joke there, and I imagine that if brothels were mainstreamed the same would hold true.

 

And working for the county, you cannot get around drug testing when it is done seriously and strictly enforced. Sure when people turn the other way you can get around it, but for many of my clients, they have someone literally watching them pee into a cup 2-3 times a week, randomly.

 

To me, hard reduction is about changing society in such a way that I wouldn't have to drive by prostitutes, including 12 year old prostitutes, every day, b/c they wouldn't have come from abuse, and there would be more options. Legalizing prostitution isn't doing that, it is only bringing in more people to a profession that pushes society even farther into this downward spiral we are in.

 

For those of you who do agree with it, I would be really interested in knowing how you would teach your sons the value of monogamy, the value of women, and how not to objectify women when you support prostitution. Like Catgirl, not trying to start a fight, just wondering.

[blind_otter]

And as for prostitution for single people's needs, I just have a different view. If a man I dated ever used a prostitute, legal or not, he would quickly become an EX. I find that to be ammoral. If others don't, that is their choice. But these kinds of sexual arrangements have been around for centuries, legalizing it and legitimizing it, making my kids hear commercials about it, and see reality tv shows about it, and driving by brothels is NOT ok. People have threesomes all the time, why do you need a brothel to have one? You don't.

 

As for harm reduction, reputable places would require drug screenings, and therefore a vast majority of the people you think you would be saving would not qualify to work in a safe brothel anyway. Even in NV there is still illeagal prostitution. Leagalizing it does nothing but bring more people into it, not save the women on the streets.

 

So we do nothing about it then? Just let it exist in the sordid way that it does?

 

I'm sorry, I can't stomach turning my back on people just because they do something I disagree with. It happens all to often in this world.

 

Also, there are no commercials on TV for cigarettes.

 

I don't support prostitution, for me it's like abortion -- I would never do it myself and I disagree with it, but it exists regardless and always will, so those that do engage in the behavior should be safe in whatever way we can provide. But like abortion, I wouldn't sit down and be like, hey let's talk about prostitutes. I woudl teach my sons the value of empathy and compassion. If I had any.

 

Prostitution has existed since civilization began, I'm trying to have realistic goals regarding what can best be done effectively to reduce harm to as mnay people as possible.

[blind_otter]

My mother is Vietnamese. One of her aunts was a prostitute in Vietnam during the war, she had no other means to support herself (there aren't exactly 9-5 jos in a war torn third world country where women aren't allowed to be educated).

 

She had so many abortions that she went crazy. She kept hearing 100s of crying babies. She killed herself while my mother was taking care of her.

[Pink_Tulip]

So how exactly is legalizing it going to help the people you are talking about? That is all I am saying. The women on the streets, strung out on drugs, how is legalizing it going to help, assuming we use the same standards NV uses? How does legalized prostitution help the women doing it illegeally in NV, strung out on drugs now? It doesn't.

 

And to say I have no empathy b/c I don't see how legalizing prostitution is going to help ANYONE is just rude. Just b/c I have a different idea of how to help people in this situation doesn't mean I don't care, it just means I have a different idea! I thought that was the point of public forums, so we could all share DIFFERENT views without being called names.

 

And I have never turned my back. I have dedicated my career to helping homeless children, and I volunteer at the worlds largest welfare to work program in the country. I think I know what compassion is.

 

And no there are no commercials for cigarettes. But there are certainly people smoking all over TV and movies. How soon will it be before legalized prostitution is incorporated into TV and movies too? Or more likely, a reality TV series about the women in a certain brothel? How would that affect the men in our culture? Or the girls growing up already feeling the pressures to be oversexualized by 14 years old?

 

There are other solutions, but legalization simply isn't one of them.

[blind_otter]

So how exactly is legalizing it going to help the people you are talking about? That is all I am saying. The women on the streets, strung out on drugs, how is legalizing it going to help, assuming we use the same standards NV uses? How does legalized prostitution help the women doing it illegeally in NV, strung out on drugs now? It doesn't.

 

And to say I have no empathy b/c I don't see how legalizing prostitution is going to help ANYONE is just rude. Just b/c I have a different idea of how to help people in this situation doesn't mean I don't care, it just means I have a different idea! I thought that was the point of public forums, so we could all share DIFFERENT views without being called names.

 

And I have never turned my back. I have dedicated my career to helping homeless children, and I volunteer at the worlds largest welfare to work program in the country. I think I know what compassion is.

 

And no there are no commercials for cigarettes. But there are certainly people smoking all over TV and movies. How soon will it be before legalized prostitution is incorporated into TV and movies too? Or more likely, a reality TV series about the women in a certain brothel? How would that affect the men in our culture? Or the girls growing up already feeling the pressures to be oversexualized by 14 years old?

There are other solutions, but legalization simply isn't one of them.

 

 

I wasn't attacking you, please don't get defensive. I never once said the word "YOU" in my post and I hate it when people do that.

 

In any event, please help me understand what those other solutions are, that are realistically based, being that prostitution is one of the oldest professions in the civilized world.

 

Also, there's some interesting articles out there by Nancy Chan (pen name, I believe) about professional sex workers. Not all prostitutes are drug addicts, by any means, some actually do engage in this by choice, for whatever reason.

 

For those who are being exploited, government regulation would reduce the number of pimps (and the inherent abuse) and protect their clients as well.

 

There has already been a reality show about legalized prostitution in NV, on showtime I think? About the bunny ranch or something.

[carmaenforcer]

Blind_Otter I'm sorry to hear about your Aunt, this is the reason I didn't go to those rub and tug Asian massage places when I was single and had the chance. Those poor girls might be there against their will. I would have gone to the mustang ranch or one of those other legal NV places.

Yeah, a lot of messed up stuff happens in war time or in third world impoverished counties. This is another good reason that there be a legal and so somewhat regulated alternative. With this the penalties for those caught still doing it illegally should be so extreme so as to deter anyone even thinking about it. There is and always will be a demand for it and so there will always be someone to supply it. I say strictly regulate it and tax it.

As for the ones on drugs hooking to pay for their next fix, that's a drug problem, hooking is just a job. Prosecute the hell out of the Johns and get the girls/guys into a treatment program. I don't think they work but whatever, like I said drug use and the horrible things it does to people and families is a whole other issue all together.

[blind_otter]

As for the ones on drugs hooking to pay for their next fix, that's a drug problem, hooking is just a job. Prosecute the hell out of the Johns and get the girls/guys into a treatment program. I don't think they work but whatever, like I said drug use and the horrible things it does to people and families is a whole other issue all together.

 

It makes me feel for the women, and really want to help them in any way.

 

This is very true, what you stated above -- prostitutes who are hooking for drugs have a drug problem, not a hooking addiction. I've seen many people debase themselves completely for drugs when I was using. I never stooped to hooking, but I did live out of my car and lose self-respect. Once I saw a grown man on his knees begging the dealer because the dealer told him to do that.

[BeFree]

Pink Tullip,

 

I must say, you have the most eliquent way of putting your thoughts down on paper in all your post. I always, think "that's what I wanted to say, but didn't know how to say it." I agree with everything you have said about this subject.

 

Just a little support from BeFree.

[Pink_Tulip]

b_o- sorry if I misunderstood you, but considering you quoted me and answered my question, it looked like you were directing your answer to me personally.

 

The issue I have with legalizing prostitution is this. You said that you don't want to leave those women out where they are victimized and such, and I totally agree with that in theory. However, to legalize it to make it safe for them, to me personally says: We do not have the ability as a society to help these girls believe they have any other worth besides selling their bodies. So rather than work on changing that perception for them, we will allow them to continue to degrade themselves and tell them since they have no other value, we will at least make it safe for them.

 

Now I will acknowledge that there are some prostitutes who are not addicts or do not come from abuse, but I think we can all agree that is not the majority of prostitutes out there. I am speaking about the majority.

 

Drug abuse and prostitution go hand in hand. You can't say, that is a drug problem, not a prostitution problem, therefore it does not apply.

 

As I stated above, I volunteer for the country's largest welfare to work program. They use a wraparound model, where everything is provided: housing, food, individual counseling, family counseling, self esteem building classes, N/A, A/A, budgeting classes, how to properly buy groceries classes, cooking classes.... it would take a page to fill everything they not only offer, but REQUIRE. It is a two year, live in program that offers job training in just about every vocation imaginable. When people leave, they get permanent housing, a good job with benefits, and two years of counseling etc. It is not perfect, but IMO, it is the best thing out there. It is currently offered only to homeless families in transitional programs or shelters. I would love to see it expanded for anyone who needs it, including prostitutes. ESPECIALLY those with children.

 

Would this fix be more difficult? I don’t know… if a ballot measure went up to expand my program like I stated above, or legalize prostitution, what do you think people would vote for? Currently half of the national budget goes to welfare. Stop allowing people to live on welfare their entire lives, stop allowing generation after generation to make it a way of life, use some of that money for more comprehensive welfare to work programs like mine… THAT is my solution.

 

You will never be able to save everyone. EVER. But at least my solution helps a lot more people than just prostitutes.

 

And BeFree- thank you, that really made my day.

[blind_otter]

 

Would this fix be more difficult? I don’t know… if a ballot measure went up to expand my program like I stated above, or legalize prostitution, what do you think people would vote for? Currently half of the national budget goes to welfare. Stop allowing people to live on welfare their entire lives, stop allowing generation after generation to make it a way of life, use some of that money for more comprehensive welfare to work programs like mine… THAT is my solution.

 

You will never be able to save everyone. EVER. But at least my solution helps a lot more people than just prostitutes.

 

And BeFree- thank you, that really made my day.

 

I thought there was a 60 month federal lifetime cap on welfare benefits? There is a lifetime cap in FL, where I live. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

In any event, for me, decriminalization/legalization (two different things, I tend towards the former rather than the latter) is a cheap, quick alternative to what you propose. Because I cannot imagine the Red nation we live in approving spending even more money on what they already consider a waste of money.

 

Being that I'm a recovering addict, I have to say, there is no comprehensive program in existence that can force addicts to get clean. Period. I've seen it happen over and over again in the 8 years I was using. Almost every person I know who was court ordered to get clean is still using to this day.

[Pink_Tulip]

When welfare reform went through in the 90's, it gave states the right to reform welfare however they chose. I can't speak for your state, but I can tell you how it is in CA.

 

In CA, when you apply for welfare, you get it for the kids you currently have only. If you should get pregnant after you apply, you will not get additional money for that child or children. Mom gets it for 60 months. After 60 months, her portion will stop, but she will continue getting it for her kids until they turn 18. She will also continue to get food stamps, subsidized housing, and medicaid. I know other states- Michigan is one I believe- that cut if off completely for mom AND kids after a few years. Every state is different.

 

When I first started out I believed strongly in the welfare system and felt it helped people get out of poverty. Now that I have worked in it so long I believe it only serves to keep people in poverty, and should be abolished. But that is another thread altogether. My point is, I am not saying we should use more money for 'my' program, I am saying we should use the money we already have allocated differently. Sorry I did not make that clear.

 

I also agree that you cannot force someone into recovery. Although I have never used myself, I work with addicts daily, and I have seen a huge majority of my clients relapse. It is only the minority that are successful. But for that minority, welfare to work programs would be a great option.

 

When you talk about decriminilization, are you talking about both the prostitutes and the johns, or just the prostitutes? I have no issue with letting up on prostitutes who are of age, but policing does serve to get the minors into the system, and that is the first step to helping them. I will never support decriminilizing johns, however.

 

And I do support much of the harm reduction for addicts- needle exchange etc. But I also think there is a fine line between harm reduction and enabling. That is my concern. I wish every addict would not only want to get clean, but have the support to do it. But until that happens, I can't support legislation that makes it easier for them to be addicts- I think that prolongs the addiction. And I am sure we would disagree on where that line is. But I think we both want the same things, just have different ideas of how to get there.

[blind_otter]

Just the prostitutes. much like marijuana decriminalization, where purchasing and growing is still illegal, but posessing is not.

 

Yep, I'm glad we ironed that out. And I handily avoided finish this horrific tax return that is draining the fluid out of my brain.

[Pink_Tulip]

Hmmm... finding ways to procrastinate on doing taxes... a topic I could contribute quite a bit to...

[hotgurl]

Currently half of the national budget goes to welfare.

 

so not true it's more like 8% of our national budget goes to welfare. the over 50% would be homeland security and the war

[Pink_Tulip]

When you count food stamps, medicaid, subsidized housing, SSI, etc along with cash aid, yes it is half of the national budget.

[Craig]

Ah screw it already! Legalize the oldest profession. Shyot, teenagers have more STD's than prostitutes1. Competition would be good for the customers wallet (maybe), it would get the crack whores off the street (and robbing banks no doubt), tax revenue would be generated and cat house franchises would pop up all across the nation. Hey! Maybe H**ters would have a sister franchise called "Screamers"

 

But it won't happen. It won't happen because there are too many people that make a buck off having it illegal.

 

1. Anyone that want's me to cite my sources can take this as an opinion or do your own research. I'm too tired to cite sources right now. LOL.

[carmaenforcer]

Screamers.

Good one Craig, I don't think I would eat there though.

Stay away form the crab cakes and oyster bar.

[MusicWoman]

Legalize prostitution...because really...people are going to go to them anyways...

 

I am also a strong advocate of people making their own choices. I think its rediculous that the government can make decisions on what men and woman can do with their own bodies.

 

Now CHEATING I think is horrible. But, I also think that if the couple decides together that its fine for one or both people to have sex with someone else that its not cheating. Theres no secrets being kept.

 

Prositution would be regulated. If everything is all out in the open, in a clean establishment (because prostitution would be cleaned up and have a whole bunch of guidlines if it were legal) there would be testing done for everyone using the service.