Author basscatcher Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 I see a pattern.. this guy that you are attracted to is an Alcoholic.. I would not start anything up with him.. Besides you being off balance right now.. he is an Alcoholic and you need to learn to break that chain. I have a question-- What determines a alcoholic besides the obvious one who drinks everyday and can't stop once started till they pass out? Some would say I am a alcoholic because I will have 3-5 drinks on a friday night with girls and I chose to get that Buzz going to losen up, relax and let lose!! I have been called a weekend alcoholic... I dont believe I am a alcoholic because I don't drink every day. I don't drink evey other day. If I chose to have a drink I typically stop at one unless I want to party on a Friday night with my friends. Kevn said that he got 3 DUI's and he said that he didn't need that in his life so he chose to stop drinking because he seen a pattern developing of getting into trouble.. Maybe he was becoming a borderline alcoholic and seen it, maybe he was a alcoholic and recognized it, maybe it was the 3 DUI's and it scared him.. We dont' know. I spent 3 hours visiting with this guy. It pays to find out more but that will show in time if he and I ever meet again. Right now I need to deal with Charlie and lick my wounds.. I am not ready to jump into another romantic relationship.. The hugs Kevin gave me, the undivided attention and the respect he showed me woke me up. It felt so good to not be treated like a object, to be paid attention too and listened too. There are decent guys out there who are affectionate, genuine and would view me as a treasure.. I pray for this man to enter into my life someday..
blind_otter Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 I'm both sad and relieved for you as well, pada. You deserve good things.
Guest Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 The last thing you should be doing is jumping into someone else's arms. You went out with Charlie to try to get over the guy you still love and now you're going out with this one to get over Charlie. BAD idea. Here is a page from the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism that answers your questions about alcoholism. http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/FAQs/General-English/default.htm
Art_Critic Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 But Art' date=' he doesn't drink anymore. Should women stay away from YOU?[/quote'] If they are attracted to Alcoholics then yes they should.. I may not drink and I am truly sober but I am an Alcoholic and have personality traits that would not be healthy for someone that is attracted to an Alcoholic. It never goes away I am an Alcoholic for the rest of my life
alphamale Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 There are decent guys out there who are affectionate, genuine and would view me as a treasure.. I pray for this man to enter into my life someday.. I hope this happens too PADA....just take it a bit slower next time
Art_Critic Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 GEtting sober isn't about just not drinking. Alcoholics are addicts in every way, even in love relationships, and dry alcoholics (those who don't drink alcohol but attempt to cope with reality using similar tactics and compulsive behavior) can behave in a way that is strikingly similar to an alcoholic. In order to be sober you have to re-learn how to deal with life, not just stop drinking. Perfect post
Art_Critic Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Maybe he was becoming a borderline alcoholic and seen it, maybe he was a alcoholic and recognized it, maybe it was the 3 DUI's and it scared him.. Anybody that has 3 DUI's is an Alcoholic. And he sounds like a dry Alcoholic not a sober one.. My dad was a dry drunk and he was a miserable f*** to be around because he never sought out and found Serenty thru working 12 steps
newbby Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 If they are attracted to Alcoholics then yes they should.. I may not drink and I am truly sober but I am an Alcoholic and have personality traits that would not be healthy for someone that is attracted to an Alcoholic. It never goes away I am an Alcoholic for the rest of my life i have to say, i think this is called self limitation, but i know thats a whole other topic.
newbby Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 pada, i think you are putting an awful lot of negative energy into this. not saying that you arent correct in your analysis of charlie, and definetly not saying that the problems in the relationship are your fault. i suppose, i feel that you should say what you think just before you exit and then exit. going on to somebody about how they dont give you what you need and how miserable you feel, but then staying and hoping they will change only makes them feel inadequate, fearful and keeps them locked in their defensive behavioural patterns. telling them they have communication or affection problems makes them believe it even more and act it out even more. what if he were to turn around and say, that you are way too high maintenance, demanding and dramatic and you need to sort this out? what if he stayed with you and intensely observed you to see if you were making a good enough effort to sort this out. i am not sure if that is a healthy environment for anybody. stop making threats to him about other men etc. if you are not happy with him, and clearly you are not, then leave him. i'm not meaning to sound harsh, but i recognise things in you that i have done previously in relationships and i think alot of women do. rather than accept that someone is not the person for us, we try to mold them (sometimes quite aggressively) into what we do want. i think the only way aroundthis is to make sure that firstly, you are really ready and really know what you want, and then make sure that they are who you really want, BEFORE getting involved. good luck.
Author basscatcher Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 Tks Newby, I am not that high maintainence.. He wants me to be and I have dragged my feet on it. I prefer simplicity. Needing attention and affection from a partner I believe is only natural when seriouisly involved with someone. He has things he needs to deal with inside of himself before he can open up his heart to anyone else. It is a obvious issue he has. Its as simple as the nose on my face. I desire Charlie and I am very much attracted to him but I don't like feeling like I nothing more then just a friend when I want more. Charlie and I will talk. I don't lie to him and he deserves to know what is happening in my life and where it is heading up to the point he and I are finalized and on our different ways. He knows my needs and he can't meet them. My needs are simple but they aren't easy to meet by someone who isn't capable of being able to fall in love due to being emotionally attached to other persons or things. Charlie needs to find peace in himself and heal from the heartbreak of his past. He runs so fast in his life he hasn't stopped long enough to deal with the break up of his marriage, losing over half of his finances, art work, the house he put his heart into, his inheritance and the daily life with his children. Charlie can't even sit down long enough to watch a movie.. (2-2 1/2 hours) He can't stand being in a apartment building except to shower and sleep. He runs constantly.. His home doesn't feel like a home to him. His heart is unsettled just as his life is. All the adreniline that has surged through his body from his divorce, then his Xgf then he meets me the day after he breaks up with her.. Where has he slowed down enough to deal with his feelings? He is angry, he is hurt, he is disappointed, he has so much he needs to deal with before he can open up his heart to someone else.. That could take years... Do you think I wan't to waste 2-10 years of my life waiting around for this man to love me and there is no guarentee he will? No affection, no open communication, no love, lack of respect, no dreams or hopes while waiting for him to heal? I cant.. I am not getting any younger and I don't have to chose to wait for him. I started to fall in love with him and he didn't nurture it.. I am suffocating from loneliness and the lack of affection.. I think it is better to feel loneliness while alone then to be involved with someone and feel loneliness.. I have been in both shoes and I prefer to be alone and feel alone. Always yearning to be in his arms, always wanting him to show me he loves me with a touch or a gentle loving look --- Is that healthy? I dont' think so. That is grounds for me to become, obsessed, demanding, angry and bitter, co-dependent, emotionally unstable myself.. I don't want that. I have a history of co-dependency and obsession. I don't need to feed that ugly green and red monster.. Unless Charlie does a 180* soon and proves to me he is genuine I AM walking.. It is going to be a slow break up I think and it will be very hard on me.. I am not a person to give up and quit easily so it is very hard on me. I am stubborn and determined so letting go is not easy. It is rare for me to chose this; but, I do feel if Charlie takes a genuine interest in working on himself and his issues I would consider trying again with him.. But he has to work on healing his past over his divorce and the obsession he has/had with his Xgf.. I can't be apart of all this.. I am not that strong of a person.. I will fall into my old habits too deep and then I will waste all my years of recovery from co-dependency. I am not that demanding. How would you feel if you were in a loveless relationship where you were always desireing to be touched and loved??? I have a heart... I am not a materialist person.. Its not about things to me it is about the heart..
riobikini Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 RE: Pada: "Charlie needs to find peace in himself and heal from the heartbreak of his past. He runs so fast in his life he hasn't stopped long enough to deal with the break up of his marriage, losing over half of his finances, art work, the house he put his heart into, his inheritance and the daily life with his children. Charlie can't even sit down long enough to watch a movie.. (2-2 1/2 hours) He can't stand being in a apartment building except to shower and sleep. He runs constantly.. His home doesn't feel like a home to him. His heart is unsettled just as his life is." The print in bold, above, -reminds me of this, which I have memorized for years, repeating it to myself when things are moving "too fast" for me: It seems I've been running since I was very small, and scarcely did I ever stop to catch my breath, at all; except for honeysuckle climbing up a tree -or a slate blue moth- then, at twenty-three, stand beneath a quarter-moon, to pledge my heart, and then -running after small ones; no one told me when I'd wake up this morning, as the rustling dry leaves talk, -and with a heart grown wiser, -learn to walk. Charlie has not learned to walk. And all of us need to be reminded. -Rio
alphamale Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Needing attention and affection from a partner I believe is only natural when seriouisly involved with someone. .. there is NO WAY anyone can be "seriously involved" with anyone else after only six month. Sorry, but that is my viewpoint.
Author basscatcher Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 there is NO WAY anyone can be "seriously involved" with anyone else after only six month. Sorry, but that is my viewpoint. I believe some can.. I can... I believe it is rare... but it happens.. Most are too damaged and don't have the skills to learn to heal from the past and learn to open up freely to love..
Author basscatcher Posted March 28, 2006 Author Posted March 28, 2006 Originally Posted by EnigmaXOXO What do you love about Charlie, Pada? Is the realist in you happy and 'in love' with Charlie for who and what he is right now, flaws and all? --- Or is the idealist (or fixer) in you in love with the potential you think you see in him? That might be the most important question of all for you to figure out right now. I pulled this from my other thread. You can di-sect what I say into Idealist and Realist in what I love about charlie: he is patient he shares similiar interests with me (outdoors, fishing, wild hockey, etc etc.) he is catholic (born, raised and educated-but hasn't practiced since before his separation from his wife.) he is a good father he has a close relationship with his family (except sister-she alienated the family for greed.) he is a honest and good business man he has beautiful blue eyes he has a great body (I like a little meat on my men-he thinks he's fat.) he is attentive in the manner of calling frequently he is attentive in the manner that he calls up to get together often he likes to go out he is friendly he is a great kisser sex is awesome with him he dances even thought he can't dance.. 'seriously' he isn't rude speaking he is organized he is clean he has the best hygiene I've ever seen in a man he shares with me his daily happenings (work, shopping, kids, brothers, his truck, his rental cars, etc etc.) he shares with me his plans (normally) he always smells good when i talk about my family, friends, work, plans, complaints about my life (not counting those about him), opinions on things -he listens. These are some of the things that come to mind right now.
Author basscatcher Posted March 28, 2006 Author Posted March 28, 2006 Some personal things I like about him : He didn't tease me, judge me, shy away from me or ridicule me upon seeing me without make-up.. Makeup is a wonderful thing.. I have a ugly red birthmark on my face, poor complexion and he didn't do or say anything about it that would hurt my feelings. He accepted me with it. That is big for me because of my past experiences. He never has complained about being too skinny, too fat, too flabby, butt being too big, small chest, bad hair..... I feel good when I am with him. I am relaxed when I am with him I feel so comfortable while in his home. I feel comfortable and enjoy being around his kids and family. I feel comfortable riding around with him for hours and hours plowing snow. (ya think it would be boring just sitting there while he works-but I love it)
riobikini Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 RE: Originally Posted by alphamale there is NO WAY anyone can be "seriously involved" with anyone else after only six month. Sorry, but that is my viewpoint. Sorry, Alpha, I have to disagree. (You have been such a gent throughout this thread, I almost hate to present an opposing view, -but...) Not even looking at my own deep emotional involvement with my B**, Pada's relationship with her, Charlie, -nor any of the hundreds who post here after experiencing breakdown in romantic relationships that, given the info from the posts, probably do qualify as 'deep involvement' after only a few months, there are other relationships to consider, as well, which have a connection to cultural history proving that quick serious bonding can (and does) occur. Take, for instance, isolated areas, where available mates are scarce and when one is found, romantic partnership and serious bonding occurs quickly. And lasts, if for no other reason than having no one else available to fool around with and break up the relationship. (Smile) Seriously, though, -I do believe it is possible, but I also believe there are so many variables which exist with it, that it would be quite impossible to pin down exactly why it occurs, generally speaking. -Rio
whichwayisup Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 Originally Posted by alphamale there is NO WAY anyone can be "seriously involved" with anyone else after only six month. Sorry, but that is my viewpoint. I think it's more like you can't really KNOW someone in such a short time. That takes time, comfort level and trust. You CAN however, develope very deep, intense feelings and emotional attachments, even fall inlove.
newbby Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 Do you think I wan't to waste 2-10 years of my life waiting around for this man to love me and there is no guarentee he will? No affection, no open communication, no love, lack of respect, no dreams or hopes while waiting for him to heal? i thought you said thats what you were doing. its a long thread, perhaps i missed the part where you said it was over! sorry:o . what i gathered is that you were saying you are seeing this through to the end, and yet it is already at the end, according to your criteria. i would just like to say, i dont put much stock in psychology, and personally i believe there are much quicker ways to healing. however, you cannot force somebody to deal with their issues, all you can do is sort yourself out.
newbby Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I think it's more like you can't really KNOW someone in such a short time. That takes time, comfort level and trust. You CAN however, develope very deep, intense feelings and emotional attachments, even fall inlove. this is true, (hello wwiu!).
a4a Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 however, you cannot force somebody to deal with their issues, all you can do is sort yourself out. Hell some people may only have issues in YOUR eyes. To themselves they are just fine and do not think what you see as an issue means a hill of beans to them.
Art_Critic Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 To themselves they are just fine and do not think what you see as an issue means a hill of beans to them. That is so true A4 Sometimes it is also just the demonizing that you undergo to move on...
a4a Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 That is so true A4 Sometimes it is also just the demonizing that you undergo to move on... Art lets run away to your cabin together!
Author basscatcher Posted March 28, 2006 Author Posted March 28, 2006 (This is very long--Its a lesson...) I had a 3 hour talk with my 'alpha male' friend last night. He reminded me how unhealthy my belief system is, how negative I am and how I talk using negatively. (NOTE: This does have a connection with my relationship with Charlie also) This man means no harm to me, he only wants me to grow and learn. He doesn't handle me with 'kid gloves'. He is forward, direct and in control. He is very, very intelligent, insightful, and he cares about me that he hasn't pushed me completely out of his life. He pushes me to grow into a better person. How this PEP talk got started was I sent him an email that Slubberdeguillion sent me that I liked: it went like this: A good man is direct. He does not prevaricate. When he says something, he means it; there's no need to read between the lines. A good man is honest. Honesty sometimes is painful. A good man works hard to attain a lifestyle to which he aspires. That does not make him a workaholic. It makes him responsible. When a good man asks, "Is something wrong?" and the answer is, "No, nothing's wrong," he'll actually believe you. If there is something wrong, say so. Otherwise, he'll consider your answer as truthful and won't bring it up again. A good man often compartmentalizes. Because you are a part of his life does not mean you are the only part of his life. He will think of you often, but he will not dwell on you. A good man always makes sure his lady cums first. A good man knows how to argue rationally. If you throw emotions at a good man expecting him to cave, you will be disappointed. A good man is not swayed by tears. A good man is not a mystery. When a good man tells you that he's had enough, he's not kidding. A good man will play with the kids, fix the bicycle and bandage the scraped knee. But a good man may also gag when changing a diaper. A good man will occasionally let a 13-year-old drive, in an empty parking lot, so the youngster can feel the thrill of taking the wheel for the first time. A good man will teach his sons and daughters about sex. A good man will ask for help when he needs it, and offer help when it is asked of him. A good man flushes. A good man removes his cap or hat when entering a restaurant. A good man may occasionally swear, especially when he hits his thumb with a hammer. But a good man will not say, "Please pass the f*cking potatoes." Good men appreciate good women, and will show their appreciation in private. It spurred my alpha male friend to send this: Like why did a guy share that with you??? (you must have needed an education) hmm wasn't the last thing I emailed you conatina the word "under-educated..." And why Does dr Laura have to write books like that. " the 10 stupid things women do to screw up their lives..." Hell only 10... Try thousands.. The last thing he emailed me was a comment to a Poem email I sent him about 'I'm a bitch." Which I agreed with its philosophy and he stated: Or stubborn, undereducated, closed minded, simple minded. To my claim of the Poem and I retourted: Stubborn--I agree Undereducated--NO Closed minded--NO-or I would never put up with what you have to say. Simple minded--When I chose to be. I got ticked off at him for correcting my thinking and belief in that Poem about "being a Bitch because........... " I emailed him back attempting to explain to him the "why's" I clamined that Poem to describe me and he retourted back that I was making excuses and he began to correct my thinking. He replied in this sense: Figure out a way to remove the word "but" from your speech, your life will change. "But" It disqualifies things you say, Like ya know everyone says ,,,,, bla bla bla,,, but,,, ( ok here comes the truth),,, and that means just a bunch of s*** precluded everything before the word ,,but Or " but" is just an excuse. somehow replace it with the word "and" example: You are a intelligent man and you have helped me learn and grow but you are harsh and impatient. You are a intelligent man and you have helped me learn and grow , and------------------------------ ( I resist growing sometimes,,, even when people attempt to help me,,, i make excuses,,, i blame them and call them harsh, and impatient,,, when i do such things i alienate people, and then I lose the help, and i can blame them. I can call them names or label them... Never having to accept responsbility for myself, and if I would step out of my comfort zone I would figure out that I do have power over my destiny, and ---------------------------------- or Sometimes i can keep up and am working at work at being better at discenrment, judgement, and ----------- Or... Gee I am doing a lot better than I was two years ago, and accessing circles of people with hihger ambition might do me good and------------------- Quit making excuses,,, Yes, alpha male friend I agree with what you said. I do make excuses; especially when I am stressed out, confused and exhausted by life. I, at times don't want to deal with things and until I'm ready to handling them . Thank for your detailed explaination. It was straight forward and you put it in a way that I was able to accept without it sounding harsh. I've been having a difficult time for the past two months. Forgive me for being stubborn and rude. I've been pondering a series of questions I made for myself. (I thought I sent them to you? Maybe I didn't, for fear you would be to harsh about them.) I have been attempting to step out of my emotions and see what others would see from the outside and it's been very hard to do; especially, when I 'am' emotionally involved. When I sent that email it wasn't with the intentions of getting a lecture. (Regarding the Man Poem:) I knew what my friend (Slubber) was saying to me upon reading it and I wanted to share it with others. I knew you would agree with it. It is like your thinking. I have had much on my plate these days and I am cleaning some of it off and it has to start with 'me'.. I like your sensitive side with directness because it works better with me. I'm defensive when stressed. He replied Start talking in the future,,, rather than I''M DEFENSIVE WHEN STRESSED,,,( Which is permanently damning and show unwillingness to change,,, Think,, I used to be defensive,,, and in the future I will accept only positive from myself... then filter people's comments to the postive bias. You have to pick -up the other end of the stick... Everything is a magnet. It either repels or attracts. "lecture" is negative, "insight narrative" "insightful observation" are both positive, etc. Hello,,,, you had a negative filter.... three C's Complaint, Cause, Cure.... I do not offer complaint with-out defining cause and showing the cure. The whole thing to this is the fact that he was attempting to make me realize that Charlie is a negative influence on me and I have much learning and growing to do for myself. I get to emotionally involved when in a relationship and lose my growth. I fall into a pattern of conforming and holding up both sides of the relationship... Charlie is unhealthy and holds me down from my own growth. The negativity from being involved with Charlie is spewing negativity out of me. The relatiosnship with Charlie is making me unhealthy and unbalanced. It isn't lifiting me up and helping me be the person I can be. The 3 things that my alpha male friend impressed on me is: Change my vocabulary so it is possitive Change some of my belief systems because they don't work Change the negativity-get away from negativity and make eveything possitive.
a4a Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 [quote name=padameckla The whole thing to this is the fact that he was attempting to make me realize that Charlie is a negative influence on me and I have much learning and growing to do for myself. ]Maybe Charlie is fine being how he is? It is not up to you to fix him unless he asked you to. Perhaps you are a negative influence on him, making him think he is less of a person being himself? I get to emotionally involved when in a relationship and lose my growth. I fall into a pattern of conforming and holding up both sides of the relationship... Perhaps you are trying to control both sides of the relationship? Charlie is unhealthy and holds me down from my own growth. The negativity from being involved with Charlie is spewing negativity out of me. The relatiosnship with Charlie is making me unhealthy and unbalanced. It isn't lifiting me up and helping me be the person I can be. You cannot pin all of this on Charlie. You allow yourself to become unbalanced and negative. Perhaps you were before Charlie even came into your life? I just see you really pinning this all on Charlie now..... instead why not just let Charlie be himself and things just did not work out. Why look to blame him or yourself. Either way it ends up on the negative end of things, even in closure. Not trying to be mean here, just trying to show a different side to you...... right or wrong. I did notice that you seem to have a real "need" to have a man in your life. Perhaps that is the best place to really focus, why the need is so great to you. How about Pada is just ok with Pada for awhile? Again not trying to be mean..... not at all. Sorry if it comes out that way, if it does
alphamale Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I did notice that you seem to have a real "need" to have a man in your life. Perhaps that is the best place to really focus, why the need is so great to you. How about Pada is just ok with Pada for awhile? Yes, I agree A4a....I have known women like this in the past. They MUST have a man no matter what. Even if he is not what they are really looking for. They get involved with men and become too close too quickly and they have a looooong string of failed relationships. It mostly has to do with low self esteem and looking towards external sources to get self-esteem instead of looking within.
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