Boundaries

[blind_otter]

I tried to date my ex again. With the same results, I know. I kind of expected it so I'm not that upset.

 

What upsets me is this whole boundaries thing. I've never had good ones. I don't think I've had ANY, actually. Now that I start establishing them, all the people who I used to hang out with/be with respond with like ANGER, when I put my foot down.

 

My ex - I have explained to him over and over that I cannot handle the relationship he has with his exW. IMO, anyone who can get that much of a rise out of you -- you still have feelings for. I mean, in conversation I will refer to her as his "wife" and he never corrects me.

 

So I told him, I just cannot handle the relationship you guys have. That's it. Nothing bad, no finger pointing, no blame placing. Just a point of fact, I cannot handle it. I'm sure there are women out there who can. GO find them.

 

But it's like he just doesn't see what I'm saying. Like it does not compute. I mean, what is there to argue with in that statement? What is there to get mad at ME about?

[bendit]

Yet more concrete evidence that contact with the EX sucks about as much as anything can in life.

 

regards

[riobikini]

B_O,

You are in a situation that many women become frustrated with: the strong ties of your 'man' to his ex-wife.

 

Some of these men never let go, whether or not there are children involved, or whether or not there are financial ties, etc.

 

They are like the proverbial moth to the flame.

 

And it serves to infuriate whoever is their current partner.

 

It is exasperating, and very hurtful for the 'new' girlfriend or wife, to watch as her partner drops everything to run and see to the needs of his ex-wife, at only the wispiest of breaths or brush of an eyelash.

 

These men remain trapped, submissively, in an emotional abyss of dominating requests and wishes from the ex, which was developed long before you entered the picture.

 

If you were to look into the background of his relationship with her, you will probably see her as almost always being the one to make the final decision on anything important (or maybe, even with the trivial, lesser important things).

 

Her wants, needs, desires, and whims will have been attended to -even to his own injury, and he will have met each one with dogged do-or-die determination.

 

So, the pattern will have been well-established long before you entered the picture.

 

Since we have no fairy stick to make her disappear, and other remedies are illegal, we have few avenues to pursue in changing the situation so that a self-respecting woman can remain in the relationship.

 

As a matter of fact, the very smart woman realizes she cannot 'fix' the situation, at all, -it is he who will have to be the one to do the most work in 'normalizing' the whole mess.

 

And, in most cases, here's where the sh*t will probably hit the fan.

 

Every suggestion 'new gf' makes to lessen or eliminate contact and/or concern with the ex-wife, boyfriend will meet with a peculiar and astounding tone of annoyance, anger, and protectiveness of the ex.

 

The attitude of "this is totally none of your business" from boyfriend will rip through 'new gf' like flying Ninja weapons.

 

'New gf' will be angry, hurt, and horrified that he seems to choose the ex-wife over her.

 

And the feeling of the ex-wife still being in control is overwhelming and just too damned hard to swallow.

 

Now I come to the bottom line:

 

If the boyfriend refuses to end this unreasonable contact with his ex-wife and refuses professional counsel to end it (if it's needed, and in lotsa cases, it is, -but they rarely seek it), -then, for your own sake, end the pain.

 

Leave it alone.

 

Let him hook up with someone else and let her deal with the ex-wife...because, my dear, she's always going to be in the picture, still 'married' to him, and sleeping between you, right in your bed, so to speak.

 

Take care, B_O...you deserve much better than this....you are a highly intelligent young lady (I've read your posts), very attractive (your avatar says so), and you have a very strong character and a lovely heart (shown here through the forums).

 

Do not waste all that on someone who cannot appreciate the wonderful person you are.

 

Take Care.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[Art_Critic]

Good Post Rio..

 

B_O,

 

She is right on tract with her post.. I really like what she had to say and can't add anything..

[justagirliegirl]

They cater to the ex's feelings and wants at the expense of the new gf's feelings and wants.

[blind_otter]

Augh. It's so true. Any time I mention anything about his exWife he gets defensive.

 

I am traveling to Europe for a month and he actually suggested that I let him ask his exWife to house sit for me, since their divorce she's lived with her mother. I said, no way! I don't even know her and from what I've heard, she absolutely hates me. WTF.

 

They have a son together, who was uppity with me initially. Then I break up with his dad and all of a sudden the kid misses me. I've started to think that he used his child to make me feel more sympathetic to getting back together with him.

 

He's not a bad guy. But I once told him that I find it strange that he drops everything and just hangs his head and does whatever she tells him. He became furious with me. I walked away and left him standing where he was, I was at his son's little league baseball game. His exWife didn't attend.

 

I get trapped, often, in relationships at the end...I spend a lot of time trying to explain why I made my choice, why I need to do what I need to do....exhaustively. I just don't want him to hate me like that, for no good reason, I want him to see why it's healthy for BOTH of us to attend to ourselves before we inflict our baggage on other people.

 

It's hard to accept that most of the time they never will understand. He sees me as deliberate hurting him and holding his divorce against him. He can't understand that he's holding his divorce against both of us.

[riobikini]

blind_otter: " He can't understand that he's holding his divorce against both of us."

 

And chances are, he never will.

 

-Rio

[blind_otter]

I feel so sad for him. It seems to me sometimes like the two of them, his exWife and himself, are caught up in this self-destructive tango. I guess I wanted to help him. To save him from the life I know he has already consigned himself to.

 

He's in therapy, now. Because he snapped when I broke up with him in December of last year and he had an alcoholic fit and choked me. It's embarassing to write it out. I thought that since he had been in anger management and therapy, that things would be getting better.

 

I fall into the same traps I can so easily point out when other people write out their stories. I can sit back and say, well THERE, you should have cut him off.

 

I suppose everyone thinks on some level that they are the exception to the rule.

[alphamale]

this is one major reason why not to date people with kids. they are always tied to their ex's no-matter-what....and for the rest of their lives. its like you are dating them, their kid(s), and their ex at the same f***ing time.

 

I dated women with kids twice in the past. I will never do it again. Now, if I meet a single women with kid(s) I just say: "Thank You, but I don't date women with children because of past negative experiences...."

[CaliGuy]

I tried to date my ex again. With the same results, I know. I kind of expected it so I'm not that upset.

 

What upsets me is this whole boundaries thing. I've never had good ones. I don't think I've had ANY, actually. Now that I start establishing them, all the people who I used to hang out with/be with respond with like ANGER, when I put my foot down.

 

My ex - I have explained to him over and over that I cannot handle the relationship he has with his exW. IMO, anyone who can get that much of a rise out of you -- you still have feelings for. I mean, in conversation I will refer to her as his "wife" and he never corrects me.

 

So I told him, I just cannot handle the relationship you guys have. That's it. Nothing bad, no finger pointing, no blame placing. Just a point of fact, I cannot handle it. I'm sure there are women out there who can. GO find them.

 

But it's like he just doesn't see what I'm saying. Like it does not compute. I mean, what is there to argue with in that statement? What is there to get mad at ME about?

 

Blind Otter, your friends getting angry with you are a sign they don't quite yet understand the change in you.

 

Don't falter! Stick with your boundaries. They are healthy and in the end will help you with your self-respect and respect from others.

 

Besides, boundaries by default will help weed out fake friends.

[amaysngrace]

What upsets me is this whole boundaries thing. I've never had good ones. I don't think I've had ANY, actually.

 

hi b_o. i think you most likely did have boundaries but they were violated leaving you to think you had none. i have read a lot of what you have written, and i can say with my whole heart that you are a truly amazing woman. you are able to take full responsibility for your short-comings. your sense of integrity is admirable, to say the least.

 

you have had some very sad things happen to you in your lifetime. yet, you are not bitter as many would be. instead you are empathetic, helpful even, to many on this board. you don't need to be this way. it's your choice and it says so much about your character. you glow, B_O even through cyberspace, many miles away, your whole being glows bright.

 

much of what happens in our life is within our control. what was within your reach to grasp and change, you told a firm grip on and did not stop until you made it right.

 

other circumstances are not in our control. you have had more than your fair share of these in my opinion. acceptance is key. for the most part, you seem to be doing a great job on handling these things which could not be changed, truly. other times, though, as this situation you are currently in, you seem to take the blame for things which you have absolutely no control over. he is making a choice, a foolish one IMO, to fail to close one chapter in his life before entering another. he is doing this, consciously, and it has absolutely nothing to do with you whatsoever.

[justagirliegirl]

this is one major reason why not to date people with kids. they are always tied to their ex's no-matter-what....and for the rest of their lives. its like you are dating them, their kid(s), and their ex at the same f***ing time.

 

I dated women with kids twice in the past. I will never do it again. Now, if I meet a single women with kid(s) I just say: "Thank You, but I don't date women with children because of past negative experiences...."

 

I agree. I will never date a guy with kids unless they are grown and even then it depends on the situation. if the adult child is still clinging to the parent for financial reasons or living at home at the age of 30, forget it.

 

As for guys with small kids, forget it. I don't want to raise anyone elses kids nor do I want to even be around kids.

[Becoming]

Seems to me that getting boundaries, posting them, and enforcing them is crucial for self-identity, which is what you're about in your life now.

 

This means you are going to piss some folks off--especially those who are used to you going so much with the flow of whatever's going on that you didn't take care of yourself so much before.

 

Do you think there may be some fear that if folks don't understand why you're enforcing these boundaries that they'll hurt you, which is why you go overboard explaining yourself? I just know that I often unconsciously anticipate that if everything's not perfect from the other person's point of view that I'll be hurt. (Vestiges of the past coloring how we perceive and act in the present.)

 

And sometimes we just have to work some stuff out until it's time to move on. When you're ready, you'll just go without trying to explain anymore, seeing at last in your soul (not just your head) that it's a waste of time to try to explain it anymore.

 

It sounds like Europe for a month will provide you opportunity to move on in many different ways in your life--with friends and lovers. Upon return, you may be able to have a cleared deck so that YOU can choose who to let in and who to keep outside the inner and outer gates of your life in accord with what you want for your life.

[blind_otter]

I totally do fear that soething bad will happen if I don't over-explain myself.

 

When I got home from work on Friday, he had left a letter on my doorstep. He came by to check on my dogs while I was at work and one of them had gotten out of the backyard (again!) so he put them in the garage for me and left the note.

 

He said that he thinks the reason I got so upset was that I felt like he wasn't on my side, which is true in a way. Simpler way of putting it. When I spoke with him later that day we talked about how he has to have consideration for his exWife, because she is the mother of his child, but that doesn't mean he should kow-tow to her will.

 

Apparently their relationship dynamic was not what I imagined. When they were together they were sober at first, but after the birth of their first child, they became drinkers, and were raging alcoholics at the end, and his exW is still drinking, while he has stopped.

 

He's struggling now because he is noticing things about his exW that he didn't before. I can understand that. Blinders are off.

 

I dunno. Part of me firmly believes that he is still hooked on his ex. But I think that I also mentally prepare myself for undesireable eventualities (as I see them) so I never fully trust my own perceptions.

 

On the one hand he seems completely devoted to me, completely smitten. We've known each other for a long time. On the other, I don't know if our particular blend of baggage is a good one. Is there ever?

 

I can honestly say that I have never been with a man where I was so completely myself. Does that make sense? Like, in past relationships I've always felt like I fulfilled some role, in their heads. Sexy vixen. Wild and crazy chick. Hot girl to show off to friends. Whatever.

 

But with him, I have no role. I am nothing to him but what I am.

 

Anyways, he wants me to meet his exW tonight at his son's little league game. He thinks that if I actually observe the interaction between the two of them that I'll get a clearer picture of his behavioral interaction with her.

 

I dunno. He talks to his therapist about our relationship, and whenever he comes back from the weekly session he has all these new tactics.

 

As much as I say, he reacts badly to me enforcing boundaries, I think I am weirded out at how much his behavior and even the way he talks has changed since he's been in therapy.

[blind_otter]

Well I met the exW yesterday and I just have to say I'm hugely insecure. It's my bad, this whole thing was my bad and I felt embarassed after I met her for being so upset about the situation.

 

She was nervous being around me, and talked too much. It was uncomfortable, but it wasn't that bad.

[amaysngrace]

Well I met the exW yesterday and I just have to say I'm hugely insecure. It's my bad, this whole thing was my bad and I felt embarassed after I met her for being so upset about the situation.

 

She was nervous being around me, and talked too much. It was uncomfortable, but it wasn't that bad.

 

BlindOtter...you never cease to make me laugh !!

[blind_otter]

When you've made as many flubs as I have, ya gotta be able to accept it gracefully.

[Mz. Pixie]

So what was she like- you said you were insecure??

 

I have no feelings like this with my husbands exwife. They hardly interact at all......