Barby Posted March 9, 2006 Posted March 9, 2006 Okay I'm not wishing to stir up anything but I came across this and after being a member of LS for what seems like "forever" and loving every minute of it........I've read soooooooooo many stories of people being involved with a married partner........... We always seem to read the same advice yet EACH AND EVERY single person seeking advice seems to find their situation different (mine included).....I'm sure some are really different and based around very different circumstances. BUT for those who's seems to be the typical situation this may be of some interest...... Read this........
erika2610 Posted March 9, 2006 Posted March 9, 2006 Okay I'm not wishing to stir up anything but I came across this and after being a member of LS for what seems like "forever" and loving every minute of it........I've read soooooooooo many stories of people being involved with a married partner........... We always seem to read the same advice yet EACH AND EVERY single person seeking advice seems to find their situation different (mine included).....I'm sure some are really different and based around very different circumstances. BUT for those who's seems to be the typical situation this may be of some interest...... Read this........ It's good advice. And I guess he's a credible source, considering he cheated on his first wife I believe..
bb35 Posted March 16, 2006 Posted March 16, 2006 Hi there, Came across this site tonight, this thread/category about being an OW and thought I'd introduce myself. I'm an OW and it's sad how little resources there are for [us].But first, it's really nice to hear from other people (women) who GET it. I read that thing on Oprah's site and it actually kinda ticked me off. As I say above, don't we already know that this isn't the wisest decision (ok, I'm understating that) we've ever made in our life and sure, heartbreak is inevitable (or is it?)? I enjoyed reading the article about "Who She Is" more because that person really seemed to understand the complexities. And that we're not evil people. Am I making excuses and trying to justify why I'm in the "relationship" I'm in. Oh sure., but this relationship has meant more to me than any other. What's crazy is that my MM isn't saying he loves me and is going to leave his wife. So why am I involved with him? He's really got the best of both worlds. When I first met him he wasn't married. In fact, he was dating the assistant manager of the store I worked at. I thought he was nice...I hung out with them a couple of times and got rides home from work from him, but I wasn't attracted to him at all. He was just a nice guy. I was around 21/22. Flash forward 4 years. Life has changed. I'm living in a different place, working at a different place, making a new life for myself after having left a religion that did it's own share of damage to me. I went into the restaurant where he was working and he saw me and came out from behind the counter and gave me a big bear hug. Needless to say, I was shocked because this hug was not only a surprise because I didn't think he remembered me but because it was as if my body was on fire and my blood boiled. I had reached a point in my life where I had decided I wanted to find somebody who I could explore my sexuality/sensual side with. I'm a large woman and had had miserable "wham bam thank you ma'am" kind of experiences and had finally said enough! I wanted to find a lover who would appreciate my body and tell me I was beautiful. (FYI: Have been and currently in therapy dealing w/issues including gaining self-confidence in this shallow, judgemental world...no, I don't really mean that...I've got a lot to be thankful for....) Anyway, he gave me this hug, it blew my mind and I said "him"!!!! He's the one who can show me how it's supposed to be. I knew he'd be a good choice for the "experiment" I had in mind because his girlfriend, the woman I had worked with had a voluptous body. Now, these thoughts only came & continued because he said he had broken up with her and I got the impression he was currently single. We exchanged numbers and talked occasionally. Then we went to dinner a couple of times. Then one night, before going to see a movie, he told me that he had always thought I was cute/hot, ever since he had first met me! This really suprised me.but it was flattering as hell. Things progressed from dinner to foolin' around and then one day I said, I want more. ...I wanted to take things to the next level. He then told me that he had recently moved in with a female friend of his, that they were sharing a bed...I purposely put that out of mind though and said I didn't care. The chemistry was so intense...I never thought I'd ever feel that way about somebody let alone have somebody feel that way about me...I thought, it'll just be sex, GREAT sex. And it was. That went on for a couple of years. I'd see him once or twice a month. I didn't close the door on other men/relationships, but no one came along to replace him. I hadn't had really any mature, monogamous, committed relationships prior to this but I was open to meeting new people and was just having fun. Things weren't perfect though. He wouldn't always call when he said he would, plus some other things which led to my giving him a not-so-nice nickname that he eventually found out about. He didn't make me feel bad for it 'cause he knew he deserved it. But I'm continuing in this "relationship" because not only was the sex incredible (imagine it, a fat girl being appreciated and thought sexy as hell and beautiful! This was completely new to me) but we were friends too. He remembered things about me from when we first met. He remembered conversations we'd had. (To this day, his memory impresses the hell out of me). he always asked how my day was, how I was doing. Well, I'll skip ahead or we'll be here all night and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has to work in the morning! It ended (for the first time) when I found out that she, the woman he'd been living with, was considered the gf...I had convinced myself that he was just dating both of us, but once I accepted that, I knew I had to end it because of the feelings I had developed for him that weren't reciprocated and I told myself I deserved better. This was the first time I had experienced pure and utter heartbreak. I had grown to love him, for so many reasons and this just killed me. I have never cried so much over a man as I did the day we had this conversation. (Then again, it was the exact same day I found out I didn't get a job I really really wanted, so a total s*** day all around, excuse my language). Somehow (I'd have to go back & reread journals to get all the details straight) we ended up seeing each other again. Then on my 30th birthday I ended it again saying I just couldn't do it. I thought 30 was a good, roudn number and that I shouldn't start of my 30's like this. I deserved better! He was still with her and I didn't want to be the OW, (even if he wasn't married to her, of course I was still the OW). But then, once again, we get in contact with each other and it starts back up. Dinners, talking, amazing sex....then, this time around, she finds the letters and cards I've written to him. Personal, private letters that are me pouring my heart out him, trying to find some words to convince him to give me, give us a chance at a relationship. She calls me. Rakes me over the coals (which is her right) and tells me that I not only should be ashamed of myself because of this but because I'm living with someone (I wasn't...I mean I was living with a guy friend but it wasn't romantic though I sure wanted it to be but that a whole 'nother story...one of many unrequited loves....) and then she said stuff like, he's mine., I'm his gf. etc. He had downplayed our relationship to her, trying to cover his butt (was I surprised...no.) which infuriated me more than anything, so I called him, yelled at him, called him names and told him to never call me again. I had had enough. Or so I thought... Time passes, I don't remember how much, but then he's back in the picture. I don't remember how it started again...(Ok, I'm tempted to pull out the old journals 'cause this lack of memory is starting to scare me!) ...but we're going along and then I say to him, if it's going to end this time, you're going to have to be the one to end it, walk away, 'cause I just couldn't. So he does. He takes a turn ending it. Telling me that I deserve so much better and that he wants me to be happy and he can't give me what I want...more tears and heartbreak but I get on with life...again. A couple of years pass and then I impulsively "drunk dial" his pager and leave a message for him. (During our times apart he was never far from my mind but I was dealing with it)...he calls back!!! I'm shocked (or am I?) He wants to know how I am. Am I married with kids yet. Stuff like that. We agree to meet (dangerous) and then this is when I find out that he has married her. My heart breaks all over again. He says he tried to find me before he got married but couldn't find me. I believe him. I had moved a couple of times and changed jobs since the last time we were together. This is a one-time meeting. He calls me at work a few days later to tell me that he can't do this. He made vows and a committment to her. I am once again in tears and wondering why the one thing I want most in the world -this man who treats me like a queen, adores me, enjoys my company, tells me how smart I am (cynics out there; I'm no idiot. This isn't stuff he was saying just to get in my bed) ...I can't have (that sounds childish and immature doesn't it?) but he really wanted me to be happy and he couldn't give me what I wanted. A year passed, it's now Oct. '04 and I impulsively send him a postcard (he's got a PO Box for business reasons) with my address and phone # (I had moved again). One night shortly after I sent that postcard, it's really late and the phone rings. I look at the caller ID and hyperventilate a bit 'cause the number looks familiar but I can't be sure. I don't pick up. I'm too freaked out. Well, I finally call it back and yeah, it's him. He's at work. He got my postcard and wants to know how I am. So it's a year & a half later and we're still seeing each other. The chemistry is as strong as ever. He's my biggest fan. He's my friend. He's become my best friend in a lot of ways as my relationships with other friends have changed as they get busier with their lives. Some of them know about my relationship with him. They don't approve but they're not judging. They do wish I wouldn't continue 'cause it'll lead to heartbreak again but...I'm not willing to be without him in my life again. (This is where I feel the worst because I'm being selfish)... I struggle with depression and he's the only one I could even bring myself to talk to in my darkest moments. Sharing the dark, human, sad, confused, scary parts of me with him has been terrifying. For years I was convinced that I had to be "perfect" and "happy" and not let on that I had problems but this time around it's different. I don't know if it's because I'm getting older or what. Learning that people aren't perfect, even if they appear to be. Learning that life is black, white and a million shades of gray. During our times apart I have dated and even had a brief relationship with another man, which fizzled after he decided to go back to his ex-gf. He freely admits that his relationship with me is purely selfish. He works 7 days a week, also runs his own business outside of that. He has a large, close family. I'm his present to himself for a life that he doesn't especially love all of. I am thankful that they don't have children. That would be just too much to deal with and it's already hard enough. So, still with me readers? I know this is wrong. But I didn't set out to become involved with a married man. I don't think any of us plan on this. We're not man-eaters. It's far from perfect though. I'm not wearing rose-colored glasses. There are good days and there are bad days. I've asked him 3 times (don't ask me why) why he got married. The first time he said what was I suppsed to do? They had been dating for years and marriage was supposedly the right next step. The second time he said who else would marry him? and this last time, I don't know why I asked again...guess I'm a glutton for punishment, he said well, I found someone to love me like I love them. That almost killed me (yes, you've noticed I do have a tendency to be a bit melodramatic...I'm a leo!!) but it really was a wake-up call. It leaves the question buzzing around in my head "what the hell is your definition of love?" It was the closest we had come to talking about their relationship (because of course that is the one thing we don't talk about!) and I ended up ignoring his calls for several days while I struggled with the decision to end it or not. But I finally talked to him and told him how much it had hurt to hear that and that it was a wake-up call, a reality check and a good reminder for me to not get so attached. I've tried to convince myself that he can't break my heart anymore but I'm fooling myself. In the meantime, it's still on. I want him to be in my life one way or another for the rest of it. Even if it means NOT seeing each other in person. He tells me all the time that it's not about sex. And it's true. We go to dinner and just talk 1/2 the time. He wants me to be happy. He knows I deserve so much better. I (think) I know I deserve better. He's a friend, a good and bad one all rolled into one. I can...say anything...to him (to rip off a classic movie title) and he hasn't run away yet. Is it that I'm that good in bed? Is he really just in it for the sex? No. I don't believe it. In some ways I feel like I'm getting to practice being open and vulnerable with a man...and god, how do I just love how he makes me feel and how I feel about myself when I'm with him. I know confidence has to come from me. Have to love myself (like myself!) ....but after feeling like I'd never have anyone who would make me feel like I'm desirable, it sure is nice having someone who thinks I'm just great and is my biggest fan in my life. Yes, if he really loved me like he says he does (as a special friend) he would let me go to find someone else. If I really loved him, I'd let him go....but I just can't. I don't want to. There are many kinds of love. I know I'm not going to get what I want from him (yeah, I'll continue and he doesn't even have to lie to me and tell me he's leaving his wife for me which probably makes me the biggest fool 'cause it really is just that much worse that I'm "settling" for crumbs but unfortunately it has the opposite effect...his telling me he's not going to lie to me or make promises he can't keep make me love him more, go figure!) I am keeping other doors open though, while working on improving my life, to gain more confidence in myself and learn how to take care of myself better in both emotional/mental, physical and spritual ways. A friend recently had me talk with a man she knew...in hopes of my finding someone of my own. This guy is great and it was fun flirting and getting to know someone and though a romantic relationship hasn't come out of it, I've gained another friend, a straight male friend, who can give me a bit of perspective on the male mind. It reminded me that other men have and will find me desirable. But for now, I will continue being an OW. Maybe someday, we will be able to just be friends and only friends. I'd like that because if I have to say goodbye to him again....I just can't. Thanks for reading, listening. bb35
KnowHowLoveFeels Posted March 16, 2006 Posted March 16, 2006 bb35, I assume that you are 35 years old now? Thanks for sharing your story. Very heartbreaking, indeed. I am still unclear on 2 things: 1. Do you love him because you think that he loves you? You mentioned that you did date other men over the years, but they always seem to leave you... rather than you leaving them. I guess, my question is, are you settling for him because you can't find someone who loves you? 2. What do you really love about him? He is cheating on his wife. He is indecive. He is selfish. He sounds like many MMs on this forum, don't you think? Has he physically taken care of you? Have you lived with him for days, 24/7? If you haven't, then you do not know the REAL him. You only see what you want to see. I am not bashing you. I love your story. But there is so much pain, and YOU are the main source of it! You have to learn to love yourself - that means refusing to take second position, eating well, exercising, losing weight... etc.
bb35 Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 Hi KnowHowLoveFeels, After I wrote all down, I thought about it later and realized that there were certain things I either omitted or didn't explain very well and your questions are good ones. And yes, I'm now 35 I love him because while he all that you say in #2, he's also not those things. Regardless of whether or not I was in this situation, I know that humans are very complex and we have a knack for taking simple things and make them difficult and simplify complicated things, not to mention the variations in between...my point being (that throughout my own struggles with self-esteem) there are good things about us and not so good things about us. (This is really a major bridge I had to cross to get to where I am today, self-esteem wise) I think a person can do wrong things and make wrong choices yet it doesn't make them a bad person. He has a lot of wonderful qualities. He's far from perfect, but he's a friend. He's funny, generous (but not overly so...I'm not being "bought" or placated), intelligent, inquistive, open-minded, really knows how to listen, has a great memory but is also annoying and insecure at times. (Another reason he developed the nickname that I gave him (which I just won't mention it here 'cause it's not polite) is because I know it's a game of sorts that he's playing when he gives me his "oh am I bothering you? annoying you?" spiel when he calls just to say hello...his insecure routine...it's crap and he knows it. He really does have a great situation here. I know that. But..... It looks and sounds pathetic (?) that I've only had any relationships besides my one with him. With that other one, it was barely a week into it when the guy said he loved me (he didn't hear it back from me...it was way way too soon for me!), then a week later he was back with his ex-girlfriend. Now that situation was merely a case of he was a jerk who obviously doesn't know what love means if he can just go slinging the word/sentiment about like that (Though of course he loved me, I've got a lot good qualities! See, my self-esteem isn't completely in the toilet!). Love to me is what happens when you spend time, years with a person, getting to see their faults and all. Yes, I guess you could say there is a bit of settling going on, but I am keeping my options open. I'm learning how men and women relate with each other (group therapy) and trying to learn as much as I can from this experience as well. I don't think that love and relationships are all about hearts and flowers and romance 24/7. It's about making time for somebody and making them feel like they're the most important person to you at that moment. It's about doing things for each other. It's about listening when somebody wants to talk. It's about knowing that someone is tired or has had a bad day. It's about someone knowing how great I can be sometimes. I can actually see it winding down and being left with a friend and I think that's why I'm continuing. I'm on a road, not a great road but it's leading me somewhere. Does any of this make sense? It's been a long week.
Blind Illusion Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 I think a person can do wrong things and make wrong choices yet it doesn't make them a bad person. That is so very true. Who among us really lives an ideal life, after all. Things and feelings & human frailty often get in the way sometimes. Nothing is cut & dry.
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