Author a4a Posted March 2, 2006 Author Posted March 2, 2006 I don't know the type of abuse you suffered, since it is insinuated that you did.... But mine was not constant. Always alternating between high highs and low lows. In every abusive relationship this is how it's been for me. Never always completely bad. Even as an adult, like when I was a child, I kept hoping that I would get some consistent love from my partner. So I suppose you could call it delusional optimism. I have that -- no matter what has happened to me, I've always knows that I would survive. Almost like I know that there is no such thing as "intolerable" for me. I've been broken but never reached a breaking point. Does that make sense? I just think that it is like driving down a road and the bridge is out, it will never be fixed. But some people just keep coming down the same road over and over because they think some miracle will fix that damn bridge. They do this instead of looking for a new road/route to take. plug in the famous Dr. Phil here "how is that workin for ya?" theory. I decide what is intolerable to me. I set my own boundaries to what I will or will not tolerate. Perhaps because I do know my breaking point and how far I can allow others to push me. If forced I can tolerate very much but as long as I have the power to decide about my own life I will not have to tolerate anything except what I choose to tolerate. I also know what I desire, what I need, and what I deserve.
Author a4a Posted March 2, 2006 Author Posted March 2, 2006 Woah, nelly. I suppose this is more functional, so in a utilitarian way it's "better"....my mother is like this. Like you. Very pragmatic, even though she's bipolar. She isn't a drama queen, she is very pragmatic and always advises me to just "move on" and accept things I cannot change. For her, though, all it served to do was severely sublimate her issues, and they end up coming up in other, really WEIRD ways, because she stuffs it all the time. She doesn't ever deal with it, or explore her feelings or how her behavior affects other people, while I am keenly aware of how my behavior affects others. It's like she just put blinders on. Some people do put blinders on because they do not have the deep desire to change for the better and use those bad experiences to learn from and avoid them in the future or to deal with the baggage and bad feelings. They do not face it. But there is much more power in facing it, dealing with it, and owning it. It does not own you.
blind_otter Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 Some people do put blinders on because they do not have the deep desire to change for the better and use those bad experiences to learn from and avoid them in the future or to deal with the baggage and bad feelings. They do not face it. But there is much more power in facing it, dealing with it, and owning it. It does not own you. Well, yeah.....I'm not understanding the disconnect here? I think everyone whose posted here has expressed that they face their issues. I mean, are you trying to like life coach people with PTSD? I'm trying to understand the questioning etc. I guess, like a dude, I want to know what your point is with all this?
Author a4a Posted March 2, 2006 Author Posted March 2, 2006 a4a - what is this thread REALLY about? Trying to get a handle on what allows people to stay in bad relationships, hold onto past experience, and which is the middle road to follow to deal with letting go of either a relationship or a past experience. I think I can do it too easily sometimes. Are you offended by something I said?
Becoming Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 a4a--it sounds like you were in such an abusive situation that you knew this ain't right at an early age. I think some folks just seem to be born with this wisdom whereas others aren't/don't have the same temperament. I say this having watched 3 of us deal with my parents' emotional and physical abuse. I suspected my parents were nuts at the age of 5. I clearly remember where I was when I came to this realization. But, as BOt says, I also got some good stuff occasionally to be confused as to what was really true. This resulted in a kind of split in my personality. If you take a look at the classic experiments on learned helplessness (concept explained here: http://www.bookrags.com/other/psychology/learned-helplessness-lmem-01.html), it's actually the inconsistency and unpredictability that keeps people feeling like they have no control over the outcomes in their life, which, in turn, makes some have a hard time leaving abuse. It sounds like you have a very strong protector part of your personality that kept the little vulnerable part of you safe. But that little girl still wants love from another and when that's thwarted or not given the way we want/would like, there's lots of inner conflict. Sound familiar? Or am I just projecting?
blind_otter Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 nah, i have this analytical tendency. it's the math/psych side of me. I want to know both sides of the equation before I try to balance it out.
Author a4a Posted March 2, 2006 Author Posted March 2, 2006 Well, yeah.....I'm not understanding the disconnect here? I think everyone whose posted here has expressed that they face their issues. I mean, are you trying to like life coach people with PTSD? I'm trying to understand the questioning etc. I guess, like a dude, I want to know what your point is with all this? Well in a previous post KC asked how I do this..... so I replied. Then you posted the blinders post. I was saying it is not always about blinders but facing and owning your experiences. I am in no way coaching anyone but exploration of options and alternate thinking to my own. If a better road can be found I will attempt to travel it.
kitten chick Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 I am in no way coaching anyone but exploration of options and alternate thinking to my own. If a better road can be found I will attempt to travel it. Do you think it's an issue for you to be able to leave relationships easily? I think if it's because you've cultivated the skills then it's a great thing. If it's because you can't emotionally invest in someone else then it may be cause for concern. Personally, I know I care too much about everyone and everything. I don't understand how other people are so callous. I don't want to be a cold an callous person but I wish I could take a little bit of their ability to not care when they hurt someone or when someone hurts them.
lindya Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 I think it's actually a deep desire for healing that may initially get us into bad relationships that feel good at first. Yes. Definitely. When I met my ex, I felt understood and accepted by him in a way that I hadn't felt with anyone else. I could be myself completely, and the response was "I love who you are." When a relationship like that ends, and that same person is listing the ways in which they consider you to be an undesirable long term bet, it's like undoing the previous healing. You're back at square one, only it's worse - because someone you fell in love with, and showed yourself to completely, has confirmed all the worst fears you have about yourself. People can be truly vicious that way. So what do you do? Shrug it off with a few hollow platitudes? I deserve better. He's projecting his issues onto me. I'm not going to absorb any of that. Or do you revel in it all forever and ever afterwards? Or do you put a clothes peg on your nose, don some rubber gloves and try to pull out any nuggets of wisdom you can from all the s*** he left you with? Then there comes a point when you've taken all the wisdom you can from it, and it's time to throw the crap out. Hopefully the upshot will be that you start healing properly - armed with better awareness of things you were too afraid to confront before. The "healing" you get at the start of a bad relationship often involves nothing more than all the fractured pieces being kissed and covered with band aid....but that bad relationship can, at least, give you the impetus to set true recovery in motion.
Author a4a Posted March 2, 2006 Author Posted March 2, 2006 a4a--it sounds like you were in such an abusive situation that you knew this ain't right at an early age. I think some folks just seem to be born with this wisdom whereas others aren't/don't have the same temperament. I say this having watched 3 of us deal with my parents' emotional and physical abuse. I suspected my parents were nuts at the age of 5. I clearly remember where I was when I came to this realization. But, as BOt says, I also got some good stuff occasionally to be confused as to what was really true. This resulted in a kind of split in my personality. If you take a look at the classic experiments on learned helplessness (concept explained here: http://www.bookrags.com/other/psychology/learned-helplessness-lmem-01.html), it's actually the inconsistency and unpredictability that keeps people feeling like they have no control over the outcomes in their life, which, in turn, makes some have a hard time leaving abuse. It sounds like you have a very strong protector part of your personality that kept the little vulnerable part of you safe. But that little girl still wants love from another and when that's thwarted or not given the way we want/would like, there's lots of inner conflict. Sound familiar? Or am I just projecting? Well I would say I knew my Mommie Dearest was nutso at a very early age. Probably at least by 5. Funny thing tho, it really does not bother me. I mean if you never knew what ice cream was you would not miss the flavor of it? What happened in my past is my past. I cannot change it, only accept it, learn from it, deal with it, and do my best to make today and tomorrow the best days of my life. Without my past I would not be the person I am today...... and I like me. I can look at myself know I am far from perfect but damn I am okey dokey. I know exactly what I want. I lay it on the table. I also know what I do not want and lay that on the table. Hell I never got good attention when I was a kid, but I know that realize it and know that I do want it now. I am sure if I was raised in a "normal" home I would still want good attention now as well. I am not going to pin all my baggage on my childhood, I am an adult I have the ability to choose and react in a way that is more positive for me. This works for me. BTW the H has changed his tune 100%. He brought me to the logical step of evaluation of letting go. Sure sign to get off the pot or shyt.
Becoming Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 that's neither me nor my cat in the picture But it sure is a cute kittie.
blind_otter Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 well yeah. i can see that. for me, things happened every 7 years, beyond what i experienced at home. if i cannot directly trace my attachment issues and tendency to get involved in abusive relationship to my childhood, and aninability to understand what a healthy emotional interaction is........ well, then I'm just crazy. And that is a terrifying option to consider.
Becoming Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 BTW the H has changed his tune 100%. He brought me to the logical step of evaluation of letting go. Sure sign to get off the pot or shyt. I thought that might be what led to this question--the old cold tater sagas. I have a sister much like you, a4a. She just came into the world this way with this temperament, and she doesn't understand why others don't just look at the situation rationally and move on, too. Thing is, she's been married 3 times now, but this one's gonna stick because she left him after he wasn't giving her what she needed, and he got the point. I have another sister with an inborn more passive temperament who ended up marrying an abusive man, then in a relationship with an emotionally unavailable man, now married and alcoholic. I'm a little of both of my sisters temperamentally. I just happened to have married a good guy and have some deep spiritual resources that have helped me through. And I've really had to do deliberate work on taking responsibility for my life and facing the pain instead of stuffing it. So I think basic temperament leads to some of this. Ability/willingness to work on it is another big part of it. (Nature AND Nurture thing). But people vary in their ability to do the work. It sounds like you've been able to deal with all of your past very well. And, if I can be nosey, how did things work out with H?
Author a4a Posted March 2, 2006 Author Posted March 2, 2006 Do you think it's an issue for you to be able to leave relationships easily? I think if it's because you've cultivated the skills then it's a great thing. If it's because you can't emotionally invest in someone else then it may be cause for concern. . Oh no I can certainly invest in a relationship. Both friends and relationships. But I have boundaries to what I will allow in that relationship. I will not tolerate abuse of any sort from either.
Becoming Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 if i cannot directly trace my attachment issues and tendency to get involved in abusive relationship to my childhood, and aninability to understand what a healthy emotional interaction is........ well, then I'm just crazy. And that is a terrifying option to consider. Honey, I've seen crazy, and you ain't crazy. This is evidence of a fine mind at work trying to make sense of things that made no sense as a child (or as an adult).
kitten chick Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 But I have boundaries to what I will allow in that relationship. I will not tolerate abuse of any sort from either. I used to say that too, I was an incredibly strong person until just over a year ago. I didn't even know I was being abused until it was all over. Emotionally abusive relationships just don't work that way. You don't even know the boundaries are being crossed.
Author a4a Posted March 2, 2006 Author Posted March 2, 2006 I thought that might be what led to this question--the old cold tater sagas. It sounds like you've been able to deal with all of your past very well. And, if I can be nosey, how did things work out with H? The question actually comes from a friend that knows her H is a dirtbag loser screwin around on her. She just does not seem to want to deal with it. And is doing more dwelling on the actual break up then looking forward to a new life with herself. She is in break up/divorce limbo and will not actual see what is really going on. "I wish I would have been home (that night) so he would not have gone out with ________" ..... that statement from her blew me away for some reason. Things worked out great with H when I pointed out he could be married to so and so, or so and so. He realized what I was asking from him was very little and realized that he has almost all his wants and needs fulfilled by me. He was going through a bit of a frump, so he states, and was coming to terms with himself. Basically freeing himself from his own BS. I point blank said you give me what I want and need or I will have to move on. (that is when I hit the logical evaluation mode). He made a 180 and is behaving for now I think he will do ok.
kitten chick Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 "I wish I would have been home (that night) so he would not have gone out with ________" ..... that statement from her blew me away for some reason. That statement wreaks of low self esteem. She's blaming herself for something out of her control. I think she's also not seeing the underlying problems in her relationship that lead her H to go out with whomever else. To her this is not her marriage failing, this means SHE failed.
blind_otter Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 That statement wreaks of low self esteem. She's blaming herself for something out of her control. I think she's also not seeing the underlying problems in her relationship that lead her H to go out with whomever else. To her this is not her marriage failing, this means SHE failed. Plus, if you're to blame, you may somehow be able to prevent it in the future. Illusion of control.
lindya Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 I used to say that too, I was an incredibly strong person until just over a year ago. I didn't even know I was being abused until it was all over. Emotionally abusive relationships just don't work that way. You don't even know the boundaries are being crossed. From the sound of things, a4a was forced into a situation where she had to sort out her boundaries early on in order to preserve her mental health. Some situations are like that. You just know immediately "this is wrong, I can't accept this." Other situations are less clear cut...and I think a relationship with someone who's very narcissistic can present that challenge. Where does normal egotism turn into narcissism? There's no clearly defined line, so you have to draw your own....but you're in a relationship, you want to make it work, and phrases like "relationships are hard work" "it's about compromise" are ringing in your ears and encouraging you to be flexible with your boundaries. It's only after the relationship ends, and you're left with the feeling that it was all for nothing, that you develop ideas about what your boundaries should have been....but you're doing that with the benefit of hindsight and equipped with the recently acquired knowledge that whatever you'd done in that relationship, it was never going to work properly. Boundaries are always going to be crossed in relationships at some point. After all, a relationship is a dynamic thing where needs and expectations are constantly being reviewed. There are your flexible "I'm not overly comfortable with that, but I can live with it" boundaries that require open lines of communication and negotiation. Then there are the "I know I'll never be happy with someone who behaves like this" boundaries that are pretty clear cut. It's a bit of a task figuring out which is which sometimes.
Becoming Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 So I think the art is that you have to be strong enough in yourself to lay the boundaries down flat-out in no-nonsense terms, and when they're violated exercise the consequences in a consistent fashion. Just like with kids. And we've got to be Ok with being alone and have the resources to live on our own so we can just WALK when there's no change or unacceptable behavior that we refuse to take responsibility for. (Oooh, your friend's statement would have turned my stomach, too. ) Anyway, that's what led to my marriage turning around. But that also meant I had to face the fear of MY past issues that all the drama of our relationality had been covering up.
Author a4a Posted March 2, 2006 Author Posted March 2, 2006 first strike........ did I cause this for some reason? second strike......... is this a pattern and is it something I can accept and compromise on? third strike........ get the f*** outta my life. It's how I deal with things in a very small nutshell.
kitten chick Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 From the sound of things, a4a was forced into a situation where she had to sort out her boundaries early on in order to preserve her mental health. Some situations are like that. You just know immediately "this is wrong, I can't accept this." You're right. I don't know a4a's situation. I was being self involved when I wrote that. Other situations are less clear cut...and I think a relationship with someone who's very narcissistic can present that challenge. Where does normal egotism turn into narcissism? There's no clearly defined line, so you have to draw your own....but you're in a relationship, you want to make it work, and phrases like "relationships are hard work" "it's about compromise" are ringing in your ears and encouraging you to be flexible with your boundaries. That's true but for me it was the phrase "you're so sensitive" that kept me trying to rationalize all of the comments. I didn't dare tell anyone because I believed what he was saying was fine, it was me with the issue and I was being too sensitive. I just thought he was being honest and I thought it was my fault that I would cry when he said these things to me. Once it ended and I started to tell people some of the things that he said to me and I saw the look of shock on their faces, I started to realize that I was in an abusive relationship.
Pyro Posted March 2, 2006 Posted March 2, 2006 Those that are able to make a less painful exit from a relationship : What is it that you have within yourself that allows this? It all has been learned from past experiences, but the feeling that I had to endure after a break-up was the worse feeling that I have ever felt. I keep telling myself that I will not allow myself to feel that same pain again, plus after a break-up, you need to better yourself and get rid of the sorrow. I am able to block that pain from hurting me only after a short time. It makes life a whole lot easier.
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