jerbear Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Jerbear, the difference is that I was born into poverty, without the advantages that others in the affulent area I live in had when they were growing up. Heck, mom and I didn't have a phone and often no electricity. I have had to scrape and claw my way to where I am now. It's been a rough road, and nothing was handed to me. I've gotten by on my wits and intelligence. However, the people that I encounter in the business world who are so uber-sensitive are usually born into privilege or married into it. They have entitlement issues and hate to be challenged. Honestly I know that feeling, I used to live in the projects and remember seeing the brooklyn bridge from my window. Not easy for my parents as I started to realize when I started grad school at an IVY league. Top 5% of the world population and I'm an asian immigrant from the projects! I guess we want to be better than our parents and not do what they did, not struggle like our parents. I guess my kids will be a legacy if they pursue it; and yes they might be privledge while I wasn't. It is amazing what happens when "they" find out about your past. I've bumped into many priviledged people at an IVY business school, finance and entrepreneurship, and now grad degree then I'll run for political office. My friend/SO/??? is very much like you. She even started her own business. Her parents had to struggle and she made a dream early one that she won't do that. I love them when they got determination and intelligence to get there. The typical American Dream story. Oh yeah, I met her while in business school. Now getting her as my wife is another issue. The determined and "unpriviledged" ones tend to be very independent and at times, hate men. go figure!
jen_jen_heartbroken Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 The determined and "unpriviledged" ones tend to be very independent and at times, hate men. go figure! Probably because the whole reason they grew up poor is that their father was not emotionally or financially present as they were growing up. Hence, the very first man to abandon them. It's something you never get over.
jerbear Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Probably because the whole reason they grew up poor is that their father was not emotionally or financially present as they were growing up. Hence, the very first man to abandon them. It's something you never get over. Probably why I can't get her as my wife! I probably scared her in that I didn't run away, am younger, chased her, and saw her as an intelligent beautiful woman and yes offered her everything that are made together financially (minus the IRA's I started when I was a wee lad) If you are a caucasian woman and a younger asian male didn't run away, chased, somewhat unsettled because of graduate school, and offered emotional & support when that is what you want. Plus her ideal guy would be settled, caucasion, older, father figure, etc... ; wouldn't you be scared to find it in someone you never expected? Could be I was naive, stupid or false hopes, but it was fun chasing her. I do miss her at times. Oh well... I even offered a diamond ring to say I wasn't f***ing around. Actions sometimes speak louder than words. Probably scared her too! all shock and awe at times. Guess I'm over her.... hmmm... that is good. thanks Jen_Jen! It is late at night, sorry to hijack the thread, whoever started it. time to goto bed instead of doing homework.
ms_jnj Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Just wondering what do you people think? How important is intelligence in your partner? Is your partner a bit ditsy, has stupid moments, or is super intelligence? Just curious to know It is number one most important to me. I was with a guy who could only discuss his fraternity, what he had/was going to have for dinner and how many shots he could take when he ate first vs. how many shots he could take on an empty stomach. I loved him but GAWD was he boring. Whenever I tried to discuss something I saw in the newspaper or learned in class his eyes glazed over and he would interrupt to say "Uh, since I had mexican for dinner last night, lets get chinese tonight. Or maybe we could make grilled cheese." Later I dated a guy who was brilliant. He's an ex now for totally unrelated reasons but boy could we talk. He was so interesting, that I wondered how I had ever dealt with the other guy for so long. Now I won't date anyone that looks to be low on the smarts side....maybe that's being shallow in it's own way but since I am at least fairly intelligent, I simply won't ever again suffer through: "...well once when I ate a burger I could do 16 shots, but once when I just had a milkshake I could do almost 20. Now if I have nothing I can have only like 10. Now my frat brother Eric, he can have a burger and do 21 shots --isn't that f-ing amazing?!" Ugh.
ms_jnj Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 For me it is the most important quality in a women to have, for most young people in the age bracket of 16-25 it's not that important. Most extremely intelligent people are rarely in a relationship when they are young. Society and young women in general tend to care more about looks and the outgoing nature of a person(i.e the movie celebrity lifestyle) when they are young. Good character is not that much of an issue. However, after women get older (in their late 30s and above) intelligence becomes very important because intelligent guys are better equipped to raise their kids, hold down a job and are much more honest and trustworthy. I feel exactly the same way...except with men! I've come across mighty few young men who are interested in an intelligent woman. If they have a choice between attractive-bimbo and attractive-smart they will go for the former every time. I have a friend who really puts on the dumb act whenever we go out and the men LOVE it. It kind of pisses me off really, 'cause I and other friends aren't willing to play dumb to get a man. But then they get older and while getting older go through like 15 attractive-bimbos and it finally dawns on them that they should try an attractive-smart girl. And thus the older guys won't leave us alone! It probably goes both ways to some extent, just I've noticed it mostly in the men!
ms_jnj Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Left to its own devices, my id would behave abysmally in these situations. It would sit back in its chair, stare around the room and yawn noisily before announcing "You're boring me. Stop it." Then it would get up and start raking around in the friend's/sister-in-law's kitchen for something to eat. I've considered allowing my id to run free more often....but then, when I see other people unleashing theirs, the consequences always persuade me against doing so. Haha. I agree, good thing my super-ego has b*tch-slapped my id into sumbission, because if it was left to itself it would say "You're boring me. Stop talking. But are you good in bed? If so lets get too it. Then you can feed me truffles. Ummmmm....truffles...."
BlahBlahQueen Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 I feel exactly the same way...except with men! I've come across mighty few young men who are interested in an intelligent woman. If they have a choice between attractive-bimbo and attractive-smart they will go for the former every time. I have a friend who really puts on the dumb act whenever we go out and the men LOVE it. It kind of pisses me off really, 'cause I and other friends aren't willing to play dumb to get a man. But then they get older and while getting older go through like 15 attractive-bimbos and it finally dawns on them that they should try an attractive-smart girl. And thus the older guys won't leave us alone! It probably goes both ways to some extent, just I've noticed it mostly in the men! Maybe it's not her dumb act at all that they're attracted to. Maybe in the midst of her act she's also being more outgoing than you guys. I have friends who have complained that the ditzy, flirty bimbos get more men becase of their stupidity, but I always noticed that the complaning party has a reserved-intellectual thing that's keeping them from similar success. In my experience, guys our age couldn't care less whether they're picking up a genius or a moron as long as she's hot, and they'll always notice the more outgoing one first. I don't know why young women with more than two working neurons tend to be so damn introverted and stiff, but they are, and I know it's what's screwing up their dating lives. Not the fact that they have a brain.
SockGirl Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 I actually can't be attracted to someone who isn't at least as intelligent as I am, if not more so. I need to feel like I'm being taught something! And, unfortunately, where I am all the intelligent guys end up with dumb-but-gorgeous girlfriends!
ms_jnj Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Maybe it's not her dumb act at all that they're attracted to. Maybe in the midst of her act she's also being more outgoing than you guys. I have friends who have complained that the ditzy, flirty bimbos get more men becase of their stupidity, but I always noticed that the complaning party has a reserved-intellectual thing that's keeping them from similar success. In my experience, guys our age couldn't care less whether they're picking up a genius or a moron as long as she's hot, and they'll always notice the more outgoing one first. I don't know why young women with more than two working neurons tend to be so damn introverted and stiff, but they are, and I know it's what's screwing up their dating lives. Not the fact that they have a brain. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a bit shy and know from experience that does make a difference in how quickly one can attract men. But aside from myself...in this situation I'm talking about, our group of friends has some more outgoing gals and some more shy gals, and even the outgoing ones, who are friendly and talkative and have no problem in the world approaching men are not nearly as popular as the one that plays dumb. She's in the medical field but a guy will say something like "yesterday on the discovery channel there was a program about the world's fattest man, and he had to have surgery on his heart..." And she will look at him with wide eyes and say "Oh wow, you watch the Discovery Channel? You must be SO smart" while stroking his arm and then she will give a high-pitched giggle and the men just LOVE it...it works every time. I think it is because she goes out of her way to stroke the guy's ego instead of actually contributing to the conversation. Whereas with the others who are attractive, bright and outgoing, the guy will say yesterday on the discovery channel there was a program about the world's fattest man, and he had to have surgery on his heart..." And she will say "Well, have you seen that movie about the guy that ate McDonalds for a month and had all those health problems?" Then she'll make a clever joke about fast food commercials or something. She will try to have an actual conversation and some fun with the guy because she sees no need to giggle and stroke the guy because he saw a TV show about an overweight guy. I mean the other outgoing ones aren't exactly unable to attract any men at all, (Me either actually, shyness and all) but this friend is a particular source of annoyance because she is really pretty bright but is also unfortunately an attention-sucker and will swoop down on a guy someone else is interested in and play-dumb, giggle about oh how smart he is and although all night he's been laughing and flirting with the clever and outgoing girl, he will immediately turn to the one using the dumb-act. Just a mere observation.
noclobber Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Just wondering what do you people think? How important is intelligence in your partner? Is your partner a bit ditsy, has stupid moments, or is super intelligence? Just curious to know Intelligence definitely is an issue when you already have a partner. It is a significant factor. But does intelligence play any role at all when it comes to attracting a member of the opposite sex? In my opinion it doesn't! It has zero effect.
amerikajin Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Let's think for a moment about why intelligence is really important. It's important because in today's complex, ever-changing world, intelligence is increasingly what separates the haves and have nots. An intelligent person is more likely to be a good provider and stable partner in a committed relationship than someone who's not intelligent. But that operational definition of intelligence begs for further definition. I know people who are capable of discussing quantum physics but can't even pay their own phone bill - that's a cry for help. That's someone who, despite having unlimited intellect, has limited actual, functional, real-world intelligence. Given a choice between the two, I'd rather have someone who can actually help me pay the mortgage than someone who can debate the history and evolution of the modern system of credit. I'd rather have someone who's ambitious as opposed to intelligent, per se. I'd rather have someone who has standards, both for themselves and for other people. Many intelligent people fail at relationships because while they may have intelligence, they don't have ambition; they have few standards. These people don't expect much from themselves or from others, and they get bounced. And their self-esteem gets bounced, and intelligence can't cure poor self-esteem...only people who are committed to a plan of action are capable of that. Anything short of that, and the relationship's bound to fail.
BlahBlahQueen Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 I mean the other outgoing ones aren't exactly unable to attract any men at all, (Me either actually, shyness and all) but this friend is a particular source of annoyance because she is really pretty bright but is also unfortunately an attention-sucker and will swoop down on a guy someone else is interested in and play-dumb, giggle about oh how smart he is and although all night he's been laughing and flirting with the clever and outgoing girl, he will immediately turn to the one using the dumb-act. Well, the logic behind it is pretty obvious now. They figure with all the ego boosts she shoots them, she'll be easier to get into the sack. A perceived easy lay would usually reel them in, no doubt. I have to try that. Your friend seems like she's onto something there.
RecordProducer Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 I think you have to date someone is basically your equal. You can expect that there will be ways in which your partner is your superior, and there will be ways in which you are hers/his. But generally, when you add it all up, it's got to be in the same range. It's simply a matter of respect...if you don't respect your partner on all levels, you will take them for granted. Very nicely put.
justagirliegirl Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 I have to have intelligence and common sense. I was married to someone who had the gift of gab but not very bright. I agree about the bar flies who can only talk about how much they had to drink and tell tired old bar jokes...Boring! From what I have seen men really don't care that much about smarts in a woman. They say they do but they go for the hot dingbat every time. I've always had to play down my brains. As for having an "advanced career", I'm not sure what that means. Does that mean some type of management or executive position? You couldn't pay me enough to take one of those. So maybe it isn't a matter of someone not being able to get a position like that, but rather they have no interest in the headaches that come with it. I hate meetings and hate managing other people. I fly a lot and usually fly first class. Sometimes I can barely stand it as most of the time I am seated by some pretentious blabbermouth who has to go on and on about how important he is or start to discuss the meaning of life. Then you get to hear about the 20,000 sq ft home they are building . Who the f*** cares and why would anyone want a 20,000 sq ft home. Or you get a group of petentious lemmings who blab and exchange business cards. They are so important! I tend to dress down when I travel so I get spared the 5 hour self-important monologues as they probalby don't think I am worthy enough to talk to.
The Studmuffin Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 I would like to say that attraction starts with character - except that it doesn't. Attraction starts with attraction. Intelligence, to me, is a part of the attraction factor. I immediately notice a woman's looks and go from there - that's nature calling. But after a good ten to 20 minutes or so, I can tell whether or not she's got the brains and, more importantly, the depth to go any further with me. [...] In the end, we look for equals. We look for people who perhaps have strengths that we lack, and in turn, we want to feel like we're contributing to their well-being as well. I find this talk very interesting. I just visited these forums yesterday, and I immediately jumped on the "Intelligence" post ... I've been seing a girl now for a couple of weeks, and everything's been going quite well... we have stuff in common, i think she's beautiful and we can laugh and have fun (and the sex is spectacular). But now I've started to wonder just how strong this connection is that we have. I've been wondering if what we (I) need to make it last is an intellectual (or also spiritual) connection. The thing is we haven't talked that much.. We haven't had any real deep conversations about the way the world is going, which is usually what gets me REALLY attracted to a girl. I like what Amerikajin says... because i think attraction is attraction, there's not really anything we can say to analyse that. But after attraction, and even after passion, comes something more.. and I think intelligence has to be something that makes that bond.
jerbear Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 I was thinking of this thread in the car, got stuck in traffic for 27 minutes, came up with this, random thought. In general, depends on your environment, alphamale or another LS'er bought up the cave man with IQ of 50 vs. rocket scientist with uncalculable IQ. In general, which one do you think would survive longer in the forest?
Outcast Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 Again, it's not about IQ. And it's bogus to compare a caveman with anyone since obviously the caveman would be in his home surroundings. Put a caveman in the city and a rocket scientist in a cave and then you have a contest I think Gardner had something with his theory of multiple intelligences so what you'd need if you want to set up a contest where a very smart person has to survive in an unfamiliar natural surrounding is a person who understands nature or at least some principles of nature (like that even pretty plants can poison you) and has a lot of creativity so will think of how to, for instance, gather dew from leaves or find a water-bearing plant if there is no water readily available.
Craig Posted March 1, 2006 Posted March 1, 2006 Attitude is most important. So what if you have a mate that has the intelligence that you think you want because without the right attitude your relationship isn't going to be worth anything. An approximately compatible intelligence is nice when coupled with the right attitude but intelligence is hardly everything in a mutually fulfilling relationship.
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