First Fight

[littlepiggy1]

personally, i don't agree with Smoochieface and littlepiggy. i truly beleive that if there is a problem that is hardwired, not just a simple inconsiderate point of view, that it can be worked around.

 

I agree that it could be worked around, but again, there needs to be a positive approach to this. If it is a disorder or even just a trait that is having a negative impact on his life and relationship, certainly he should try to do something about it. But from reading things like "He can damn well return the favor, not make my life a misery"... People can disagree, but that just doesn't sound like a healthy approach to the issue.

[whichwayisup]

This is bringing the conversation pretty off-topic, but obviously I don't agree with any of that. Shielding yourself behind a list of disorders doesn't help anyone. If you are not willfully trying to control yourself, what use are you to yourself or anyone else? If I let my anxiety or hormones control me, I'd be a bitchy little hermit. If he lets his "distractedness" control him, and gives me no reason to believe in his reliabiliy, then good luck keeping me, or any other girl for that matter!

 

If that is the case Nur, then maybe you two are better off apart. There will be another woman, who will love him enough to HELP him and accept him through his disorder if he has one.

 

DO you suffer from an anxiety disorder? Or are you just talking about regular stress that can bring on mild anxiety...Just wondering. Because unless you suffer from anxiety and panic attacks, you won't understand what it does to someone and their life. Just as SF has pointed out about his aspies. I think you've touched a nerve with me with some of your comments and I'm hoping I don't come off harsh throughout my post, k.

 

Maybe some girl would put up with it, I don't know. I was that girl for eight months, and I am sick of it, just like anyone would be. Not being able to believe in someone to call or be there when they say they will is just one list of disappointments after another, until finally the hurt is too deep and raw to bear.

 

Yes, some girl WILL put up with it because she will support him, accept him for who he is and compromise more to meet his needs because of who he is.

 

I have high standards, and high expectations of myself and others, and I'm not going to be with someone that uses his "disorders" as an excuse without putting forth effort to fix problems he knows hurt me, just like I'd do for him. For example, I don't especially love parties, but he does. So I teach myself to love them. I grit my teeth, and go. And you know what? They're not that bad! My anxiety has decreased because I've made an effort to control it -- I haven't exclaimed, "Oh, no, I don't like crowds, you have to stay home with me instead! Wah wah!"

 

Yeah, this part honestly pisses me off what you said...- That is fine, but please don't dismiss Anxiety Disorders. I suffer from an anxiety disorder. I am currently doing Cognitive Behaviour Therapy to help me GAIN back control of my life. It isn't as easy as you think. I rely on my husband at times when I'm having bad anxiety and thank GOD for that! I feel blessed to have his love and support during my rougher moments. I know in the past it hasn't been easy on him, but he was there - Loving and supporting me. He never ONCE made me feel bad because of my anxiety. Fuvck, one time I had a panic attack SO bad at a hockey game, I thought we'd have to leave. We stayed ofcourse, because there was NO way in hell I was gonna leave during a hockey game!! BUT, if I needed to, he would've stuck by me no matter what.

 

Good for you that you have YOUR anxiety under control, but some others don't all the time.

 

Hate to say this, but one day you'll learn to lower your standards, and be more open minded and less selfish. Sorry I don't mean that as harsh as it reads, but nowhere in your post now does it show YOU love him. It seems it's all about YOU and YOUR needs. Relationships are give and take, compromise. Seems you refuse to let up and accept him for who he is. Everything else aside, he is a good man, he loves you and cares for you - I think you just can't trust him enough to enjoy this relationship and let it grow. You're too worried about this and that and Nur - That is distorted thinking and insecure thoughts taking over. Doubting him, his word and feeling let down all the time because he isn't meeting your high standards and expectations. Maybe he isn't the one for you. Relationships aren't supposed to be this hard to maintain. Atleast in my own personal experience.

 

If he wants to feel sorry for himself and his "problems" he can go for it -- alone. But I don't need to be wasting my time with any of that. If he is truly going to work to make himself better, I will give him some time and patience, like he would do for me. If he is going to throw an "expecting someone to *willfully overcome* certain disorders is much easier said than done" at me, then boo hoo for him. I have no sympathy for that, especially since his case is so mild. I have problems of my own, and I fix them for him and to better myself. It's not easy, but I do it anyway. He can damn well return the favor, not make my life a misery. If he wants to get himself diagnosed or looked at, fine. If he wants to try to overcome it without medicine (I think his case is mild enough so that this is possible) then fine. But if he doesn't believe that I am being serious, is too lazy and self-pitying to try to overcome it, or is acting how he is because he doesn't care about me, then I'll have to end it.

 

Think it's best for me not to comment here...

 

It would be hard, but I'd get over it. I'm not going to get even more emotionally entagled in this battle if it is going to lose. A year from now I will be just as miserable, with a wasted year behind me. It'll be hard enough now as it is... the longer you are together, but more your lives intertwine, and sometimes people stay together far longer than they should, just because they fear breaking up.

 

That is sad that you would look back at this as a wasted year - NO matter what. YOu've just dismissed ALL the good from your own boyfriend. You have a chance to learn about you during this mess. Don't look at it from such a bad place.

 

Sorry to say this, but THAT is another disortion of what anxiety can do to a person.

 

Have you ever sought out therapy for your aniexty? Maybe it doesn't affect you out and about in the real world, but in your personal relationships and how you deal with these problems isn't exactly working 100% either. Don't take that wrong, I mean, your way of thinking has changed BECAUSE of the negative thinking. Therapy can help with that as it is a learned behaviour, just like avoidance behaviour...

 

Either way, you need to figure out what you really want. If you can't see yourself with your boyfriend, END IT NOW and let him find someone who will love him for who he is. If you want to have him in your life, Nur, you need to lower your expectation level abit and see things more openly and not so black and white, judgemental.

 

Good luck and keep posting.

[Walk]

I don't think she has the life experience to realistically lower her expectations. (No offense Nur.) I don't think she's had enough relationships, or problems, or set backs that bring about that kind of understanding. So I'm not sure if telling her to lower her expectations levels will help her at all.

 

I think she does have some right to demand that her boyfriend attempt to "over come" his problems. But only as far as having him attempt and work at becoming more prompt, and more dependable. To work within the limitations of who he is, either through seeking diagnosis, medication, or modifying his behavior. Which ever method he feels is most appropriate. This is what she wants in a relationship, and what shows her love. He then, has the right to say "piss off" and to find a woman who will appreciate the things he does to show his love without having his gf tell him he's screwed up in the head.

 

Wow.. that came off cold and harsh... Try to see through that. I'm just dissappointed that you can't see what a great guy you have. Even though he misses a deadline, or forgets to call, those are solveable problems. Those are workable. I wish those were the only problems I had. That'd be a breath of fresh air. Guess it's all in how you view it.

[whichwayisup]

I see your point and that was a good post too!

 

The thing is, if she still wants to him as her boyfriend, then she may just have to lower her expectations abit. Compromise and do some accepting. Plus, people don't change over night. And also some slip into patterns depending on what is going on in general. My concern is, he makes alot of effort then slips abit. How will she react? Be understanding or jump all over him and get mad?

 

I just hope whatever the outcome is, good or bad - Nur learns from this relationship and grows from it.

[Nur]

Well, as is the problem with trying to explain a complex thing bluntly, I seem to be rather spectacularly misunderstood.

 

Of course I seem negative. I'm only talking about my problem here, as is the point of a thread. I could list for pages everything I love about my boyfriend that makes him unique and special and why he has gotten so close to my heart. If I didn't love him, I would not feel anxious over this issue. If he didn't have potential of hurting me, I wouldn't be concerned about this. I wouldn't be asking advice. But all of that would be off-topic and beside the point.

 

No matter what some of you claim, I think it would be wrong for him not to try to change. He can -- it's very mild. In the last two weeks he put forth some effort, with wonderful results. He even stopped being late for class! Really, that one missed call was the only thing he's done wrong. The reason I had such a sharp reaction was because I thought that he'd given up after two weeks of trying, and would just stop now. I didn't want this to happen again and again. But he assured me that wasn't the case.

 

We talked. He agreed that leaving me hanging and constantly forgetting to follow through is a major problem. Maybe you all are right, and some girls might be okay with it, but by the way it hurts me and how I've felt after being disappointed time and time again, and starting to utterly lose trust in him, I know I am not one of those girls. I have already tried to live with it, and I know that I can't. I can't just "lower my expectations" and accept it. I could do that about other things, but this issue is just too deep for me. This affects the very foundation of what we have. It plagues every plan, every thought, with doubts. I find myself constantly amending my plans to "if he'll be there" or "maybe I should just tell my friends to all come an hour late, since who knows when he'll arrive" which is wrong. One time we were going to the mall with friends, and planned to leave at noon. Both of my friends were here and on time at noon, ready to go. We waited and waited. One hour later, without a call to say he'd be late or anything, my boyfriend shows up. The entire time I'd been begging my friend to wait for him, and making up excuses, when the real reason was that he just didn't get around to it.

 

That's all I ask, really. I'm not expecting perfection. If he's just too far behind, be late. BUT CALL. Tell me you're going to be late. I understand it's hard for him to manage time, but it's wrong for him to keep me and people around me in the dark, and that's what hurts the most. If he's not going to have time to call, leave a text message saying sorry, or warning me. Not just empty silence. That is the compromise that I could offer, and I hardly think it's beyond the realm of expectations.

 

So far, Tru's hit it most closely with this post:

 

One cannot go searching their entire life for that one person that has the exact same likes and dislikes, because at the end, the only person one will find to be like this will be themselves. sacrifices must be made and agreements. it sounds like there is a lot of love inbetween you two, trust the process, love will be the driving force.

 

That's exactly true. I am not going to go wandering around looking for Mr. Perfect Flawless man. My boyfriend is close enough to that for me, anyway. There are some flaws he has that I've accepted, and lived with. He's not the neatsest person in the world, but not bad enough to be a slob. His family speaks Spanish, which I am not super-fluent in, so it's difficult to communicate, when really I'd love to be closer to them. I, a lover of poetry and beautiful ways of wording, have accepted that he has a lot of difficulty saying things in English, since he's still learning the language, so I don't expect that from him. I accept that he doesn't have a lot of money, and have never demanded to go on expensive dates or want big presents or anything. I love him more than a bunch of material stuff, or to make any of these imperfections hurt what we have. I have accepted them, and love him just as much anyway.

 

But there's also such a thing as breakable flaws. Something that, as much as you like to, you know you can't accept. I really have tried to, for six entire months, and I simply can't.

 

Yes, by the way, I do have mild anxiety, but not badly enough that I need to be medicated. I have a strong type A personality as well, always pushing myself and trying to do my best at everything, so that's stressful and can provoke anxiety. One time I had a panic attack at a party and had to leave, but since then I've thought about the causes, and learned not to blame myself, but work at controlling it and reasoning my way out of it. I've worked extra hard to socialize with people, and I've actually made a lot of new and good friends. When I feel the anxiety around the group (happening almost never anymore), I just step outside for a while, take a few deep breaths, tell myself it's the anxiety, and I'm fine. After talking to him, and seeing the success of two weeks, and knowing that his seeming stopping was only a rare occurance, not a sign of giving up, I have new hope.

 

I told him not to blame himself, though, if things don't work out. He can try his hardest, and it might or might not work. And on those moments that it doesn't, all I want is a call or a message so I don't worry. I just want to know what to expect, not always be in the dark and doubting.

 

I know that he cares enough about me to try his hardest, just like I would if I were having anxiety attacks or homone problems as often as he fails to call or show up. I know that, were our situations reversed, I could hardly expect him to live permanently with someone always snapping and being bitchy, or someone who never wanted to leave the house and be around people. Even if he wanted to accept that, he wouldn't be able to. Even though he loves me, he'd have to end it.

 

I think we'll be okay, though. I love him so much... but I don't want to be hurt. I realize that he might be able to change this fatal flaw, in which case we'll be able to stay together, and be happy -- for this problem, over the months, has been the only serious conflict that ever rose between us. I also realize that there is the potential that both of our hearts will be broken if he is unable to overcome this. However, we'll both heal and move on if that's the case, not be caught in some web of disappointment, conflict and misery that will consume what we once had.

 

I am hoping with the wishes of my soul that he can do this. We would hate to lose each other... and I hope we don't have to. But as much as I love him and he loves me, I am not going to suppress my feelings any longer or pretend that I can live with this problem. I know it will only explode and come to a head again, and neither of us need the emotional drainage of a long, lingering break up. I will help him as much as I can, and be as patient as I can with him. I know that he has a very good chance, and at least I know now that he's trying, and that his actions are not a result of lack of caring for me, as if often feels like.

[Outcast]

This is bringing the conversation pretty off-topic, but obviously I don't agree with any of that. Shielding yourself behind a list of disorders doesn't help anyone. If you are not willfully trying to control yourself, what use are you to yourself or anyone else? If I let my anxiety or hormones control me, I'd be a bitchy little hermit. If he lets his "distractedness" control him, and gives me no reason to believe in his reliabiliy, then good luck keeping me, or any other girl for that matter!

 

This shows you know very little about disorders and you don't seem to be willing to learn. I suggested you read a number of resources. Have you? Do you 'love' him enough to spend some time learning or does your 'love' only pertain when it's simple and requires no effort on your part? He cannot 'let his distractedness control him'. IT IS BEYOND HIS CONTROL. It is as though you are insisting that a blind man can actually see if he only tries hard. HE CANNOT.

 

Now, if he finds out he has ADHD and refused to get treated or to learn about how to use the tools made for folks with it, that's a different story but to blame him for something HE CANNOT HELP would be cruel and unfair.

 

I think she does have some right to demand that her boyfriend attempt to "over come" his problems. But only as far as having him attempt and work at becoming more prompt, and more dependable. To work within the limitations of who he is, either through seeking diagnosis, medication, or modifying his behavior. Which ever method he feels is most appropriate.

 

Again, behaviour modification doesn't work.

 

But there's also such a thing as breakable flaws. Something that, as much as you like to, you know you can't accept. I really have tried to, for six entire months, and I simply can't.

 

Funny. This was the person saying she'd understand if it was something he couldn't help. So which is it? Do you actually understand that there are some conditions like this that people can't help? DID YOU READ THE INFORMATION? Will you pay attention to the facts that have been written by eminent medical bodies or will you insist on thinking he can fix it if he 'just tries hard enough'. Because you will be dead wrong and will remain forever disappointed in him if you refuse to believe medical fact and choose to think it's something he can 'just fix' by dint of will.

 

Here's what you could do. Cease expecting him to be on time. He cannot be on time so stop expecting it. When you expect the impossible, you set yourself up for disappointment. As long as you insist on telling yourself it's a flaw he can just fix if he tries, you will be disappointed over and over again - as will he, because no ADDer can fix himself by 'just trying'.

 

Or you two can get him to a physician and find out what's up with him and in the meantime, expect him to be late and laugh about it.

 

My spouse was perennially late. We called it 'Caribbean time' because his dad was from Jamaica and was also perennially late. I had workarounds. I'd remind him many times. I'd call hm and remind him. I'd tell him to come to something an hour before he was supposed to be there. You can cope. Or you can choose to believe that which is not true so that you can abuse him over it.

 

Your choice.

[Nur]

He cannot 'let his distractedness control him'. IT IS BEYOND HIS CONTROL. It is as though you are insisting that a blind man can actually see if he only tries hard. HE CANNOT.

 

I don't believe in that theory, Outcast, that's it's always impossible to overcome disorders manually. I've studied psychology (it's actually one of my majors) and, if the disorder is limited in its severity, it is actually quite possible.

 

Explain the past two weeks. Through simple effort and mindful understanding, he's ceased to be late for school (usually he is -- he's gotten in trouble for it many times) and only once failed to call when he said he would (I got upset because I thought it was a sign of him giving up, but he assured me it wasn't). True, it is hard to make himself focus, and he will probably always be slow with his homework, but he is able to change parts of it -- the parts that are important, thankfully.

 

Explain my overcoming anxiety. It was a disorder. Mild, but there. I would clutch up in front of people. Sometimes even at school I would be fine one minute, and short of breath with sweaty hands and a racing heart the next for no reason. I was terrified of parties, since it would happen there even more. But, though it took some time, I almost completely overcame it. Behavoir modification. I made myself be more social, even though there was a tremendous adversity to it. I forcefully joined more clubs, and decided to go to parties even though my heart would thunder as I entered the crowd. At school, if that happened, I would learn to relax myself and tell myself there was no reason to feel that way. Eventually yes, it did work. I've had only one anxiety attack in over a year, and that was months ago. Through sheer force of will, I've overcome it, and the marked change of behavior in the last two weeks has proven he can, too.

 

This is important for his future, too, just like it was important for me to learn to deal with people. I can't be spending my life in my house -- sometimes you have to face your problems and step out of your comfort zone to gain skills necessary in life. How do you think his boss will react to constant lateness at the job? Good luck to him keeping it long.

 

Think whatever you will, all of you "lower your standards" and "don't try to help him get over this because he can't" people. I am not going to lower my expectations; they are not unreasonable. And as I have overcome my problems in the past, so can he his. I believe in him, anyway -- enough to give him a chance, and to be patient as I can as he tries. I don't demand instant perfection, just evidence that he's putting in an effort, and that he's improving.

 

I, at least, believe in him. Even if none of you do, that's not going away. I don't mean to sound harsh, but remember, I know the situation a lot better. I understand that some of you are trying to read too deeply into the big picture by only snatches and tidbits of the information I've provided, leaping into conclusions that his problem is more severe than it is, or utterly beyond his control (despite proof that he can change it), or that I don't love him, when really none of you have enough information to judge any of that. It's not your fault; there is only a limited amount I can express here in words. It's a shortcoming of trying to post a narrow problem with a broad solution. Instead of helping me address the problem, most of you are accusing me of things that simply aren't true, or advising about issues that don't exist. I'm not saying they don't necessarily make sense to someone who's only seen the information I've been able to provide -- I am saying it's only bogging me down with useless detail and doing nothing to fix much.

 

Anyway, I think and hope this can work out. Next time I think I'll just go to someone who knows the situation better when asking advice for a problem of this extent. My parents, when I spoke to them, proved to be extremely helpful and knowledgeable. None of their suggestions (since they knew the entire picture) matched yours -- except, perhaps, Tru's posts. It was much more hepful and efficient going there. I guess the forum here can be good for little, simple things, but it's just too broad, consuming, and serious to be solved by speculation.

[whichwayisup]

Explain my overcoming anxiety. It was a disorder. Mild, but there.

You wouldn't be saying that if your anxiety was severe. Because it was a mild case, you were able to work through it. And some people aren't as strong as you are in facing and working through their problems. It's wonderful that you overcame the anxiety! I'm more than half way there, mostly good days but I do have some rough ones still.

 

Sorry if I came off real harsh Nur. I guess I also don't want to see you throw away something good because of high expectations. Don't take this the wrong way, but if you have someone special and you love him - Sometimes letting go of the ego (which yes, is tied in a tiny bit to high standards and expectations) will help so much.

 

I do agree too, as long as he is willing to work at himself and you see improvement, then that is good. But, allow him to mess up without worrying if you are going to break up with him because he made afew more mistakes...I say this because he will make mistakes, let you down. Not on purpose, but because he honestly can't help it.

 

Good luck and I hope all does work out well with you two!

[Outcast]

Unfortunately, few teachers of psych understood much about ADHD until only lately and the concept that it is a PHYSICAL disorder has not been understood at all. Deny it all you like. It's not a 'theory'. IF you would read Amen's site and look at the SPECT scans you'd see some proof but it seems you'd rather have your ideas than anything with science behind it.

 

despite proof that he can change it

 

Again, ADHD isn't constant. Sometimes people are better than others. But fine. Insist on believing that it's all within his power to change and berate him when he can't. To me, that's not 'having faith in someone', it's 'refusing to accept that someone is ill'.

[Nur]

Thanks, Whichway. Don't worry, I understand what you mean, and that's what I intend to do. I told him not to stress out overly much or think I'm going to break up with him if he messes up once or twice. I just basically asked him to try his hardest, so I know he's putting an effort there, and decided that instead of waiting for him to call at a certain time and getting hurt when he doesn't (for those cases where he might forget) I think I'll call him if he forgets and just say something like, "So, were you thinking of calling?" in a joking way. I mean, now that I know it's a physical problem, I can be a lot more patient and understanding and help him work through this than if it was because he simply didn't care. All of my friends at school were looking at me sympathetically saying things like, 'Maybe he doesn't love you anymore" even though I knew it wasn't true. Again, trying to get advice from people that just don't see the whole picture is very difficult, and they, completely without fault, often just jump to the wrong conclusions. I have never once doubted his love for me, which is why I was so extremely hurt and confused when sometimes it seemed like he didn't care. It never occured to me he might have ADD or anything -- I was mystified. It was incomprehensible to me that he wouldn't be able to manage his time around his promises. It hurt even worse after I told him how it made me feel, and two weeks later he did it again. It was like proof that my friends were right, and that broke my heart! Had I been completely wrong about him the entire time? That's why I sort of went off the deep end. But when I talked to him, and he had tears in his eyes and was of utter sincerity, I knew I had been right all along in my confidence for his love for me. And since over two weeks he's been able to change it, I think there is hope. If it was physically impossible, like some of you claim, there would have been no two weeks of change.

 

Well, thanks anyway for the replies. I think it might be better in the future just to stick to simple problems or questions (I have one, actually, in mind...) and not try to condense big things like this into a narrow thread. It just wasn't helpful, since I failed to accurately portray the big picture and got mostly irrelevent problems brought up without many solutions to what I was trying to face. I guess for things like this, it's just better to go to people who have lived through it all with me. My parents gave stunning advice in ten minutes flat, and I can feel that they are right.

[whichwayisup]

I think by posting, there so are many people who offer advice and also DO care, and that is why (myself included) got more involved in your thread and was abit harsh here and there. Glad that you didn't take it personally. Tough love sometimes is in order - Especially helps I find because it's very hard to be objective and see the full picture when you're the show!

 

You're right too, it is harder to help someone given only what is shared here on LS. We don't know your daily dynamtic with him...So, we're left to fill in the blanks on our own. Sometimes it's a hit and other times, it's a miss. Eitherway ,the help given to you was honest and hopefully some of it can be applied into you life.