Walking away Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 It took intense therapy with a nun to help get me through (I thought she was going to throw the bible at me when I confessed what I had done...)...I didn't want to leave that relationship back then, I really felt I had no choice. It was time to put my needs after others. I needed to do the right thing and it took outside help to get me through. So, I wasn't so tough...just broken and reaching out for help, so I listened to the help given. It was a hard road and I look back with regrets, but the life I chose was the life I chose. I had to fix what I could and move on. I, by the way, wrote my MM's wife an apology letter about a year after the affair was over. I don't think he ever really felt the guilt like I did.
KnowHowLoveFeels Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 WalkingAway wrote: I, by the way, wrote my MM's wife an apology letter about a year after the affair was over. I don't think he ever really felt the guilt like I did. You know what? I don't think I feel as guilty as my MM does about our affair. I do feel some guilt, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to divorce my H and start a new life with my MM. On the other hand, my MM is stricken with guilt, I think. They've known each other since they were in highschool, way before I entered the picture. I know for a fact that he doesn't love his wife... as much as he loves my H (like a brother). I think I need therapy, too. I have been on LS for 3 months... since NC with MM. I am gaining my sense of self again... but I one thing that I can't seem to solve on my own is this: I feel ashamed/guilty that I don't feel more guilty/ashamed for wanting to leave my M for my husband's bestfriend. (Does that make sense?) What is wrong with me?? Why can't I seem to see what is so bad in my marrying my husband's bestfriend? Why can't my husband just accept that I love his friend and be cordial about it? I just can't seem to answer these questions myself!!! It drives me so crazy not to be able to see the answer. Sorry ... I didn't mean to hijack this thread. Maybe I will pose another thread... when I can reword the questions so that I won't offend anyone.
OldEurope Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 ....You are not going to necessarily find the "success stories" posting here. But as Newby a while ago pointed out (hi newby!), I fall into that category myself. I come on here from time to time to perhaps give some pointers and direction from my own experience. I have a big, bulky thread on the the subject from last year, but long story short it took me, after a year and a half, a total ultimatum/disappearing act before he completely ordered his life together, divorced and we married. His marriage had been loveless from the start (his testimony, his friends, his psychiatrist, and yes, his wife's avowal), bound by a child, and it had come to its end essentially long before I entered the picture. I do not like wife bashing in the least, but I will only say in this case, she had stopped being a partner, a human being, a wife, to him in every sense, long ago. I will say that in my case, he told her, the W, almost right away (a month in) that there was another woman in his life, that he was falling in love. This was to be honest, and to show that the cumulative emotional damage in the marriage was leading to certain consequences, and to let her know that they were in an emergency situation. She flatly refused to discuss anything. The psychiatrist, I mention here, he saw for many months once he entered the decision making process of whether to divorce or not. The doctor found him an emotionally, spiritually and even physically broken man. A very Catholic upbringing and a sense of duty, but also of resignation, had locked his nerves. I will say that the doctor credited me for "bringing a human being back to life", one of the highest compliments I have ever heard. But still, this was a grueling episode, the sessions intense, and I stayed by his side for this for about six months, then, seeing no action, hopped on a boat and sailed in the sun. I refuse to let anyone darken or damage my love of life. Months later he came calling, the rest, as they say..... This was and has been the most wonderful relationship of my life, the "ending" for me but the logical conclusion of what I knew instinctively from the beginning was to be. I have never felt I have "taken" anyone away--this decision he came to himself. Furthermore, I do not believe that an OW cannot destroy a marriage--it must already in some part be destroyed. I keep in mind that the decision was his--I was completely out of the scene when it came about--and with that I live happily and deeply in love.
castle26 Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 Maybe no one can answer this because few (if any) married men actually leave. You are incorrect. The national (US) divorce rate is close to 50% of all marriages, and not all spouses starting the divorces are wives.
elmejor Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 Maybe no one can answer this because few (if any) married men actually leave. Wrong--many do leave. And most of them who do not leave continue to be unfaithful.
Chump64 Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 I respectfully disagree. I think this really depends on where you pull the stats from. I have read that only 10 percent of cheating partners actually divorce in order to marry their affair partner. (That’s not to say they don’t divorce because of the affair – but only 10 percent of them end up with the affair partner.) I also read that among those who married their affair partners, the divorce rate among those couples is 75 percent. I have read these stats from several different sources, and the 10 percent stat is also one that I’ve heard in counseling. But, we all know that stats can be pulled and used to fit any argument you’re trying to win.
serial muse Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 it must already in some part be destroyed. I think "destroyed" is overstating the case considerably for most affairs. "On thin ice" would be much more accurate (for those affairs that aren't the result of a partner who simply can't be faithful). Many married people are tempted to stray, for any number of reasons; some choose to go through with it. The temptation may be an indicator of deep fissures within the marriage, but at that point it's usually far from over. The MM/MW has a choice - it's not a fait accompli, nor is it fate, nor is it predestination. Destruction is hardly inevitable. That is not to say that in some cases, the married couple wouldn't be much better off apart. But I think it's too easy to say "it was going to happen anyway". (That's not meant to be a dig at you OldEurope, by the way. I think your story is fairly atypical, but it certainly provides a positive, best-case scenario for OW/OM.)
Sami_D Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 My story was so typical! Thought he didn't lie to me (never said he would leave, never said he was unhappy in his M, blah blah), I thought we were perfect together (and therefore he had to leave her, right? ), the biggest love of my life, blah blah. I see Sami_D here still waiting and I sense anger and insecurity, because she subconciously suspects that her story is not different, either, but refuses to give up hope. (I know I will get chewed up for this) No, I won't chew you up, because you're right. What I feel mostly is Anger and Insecurity. I can't possibly deny that! There's no way I can feel anything else until I know for certain that he is or isn't going to leave. And yes, that really is Hard. All I have is hope, and that isn't a positive... I mean, hope is something that I wish I would lose at some point... because without it I could move on. Actually, coming here makes it worse, because it seems that ALL the stories on this board are negative. Someone else wrote that that's because the people whose relationships go ok don't bother coming to message boards to talk about it. There have been some 'it all worked out' stories on here, but I think that when at some point you've ended up on a problems message board, the idea of it working out ok in the end is slim. FWIW I DO know that. But I'll keep reading and posting anyway.
Sami_D Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 And don't get me wrong, I am not attacking Sami_D, I just see some things in her posts that worry me. I'm not trying to take her hope or anything else away from her. I hope her situation works out, too! If I give the impression that everything is fine with my affair, then that isn't what I was trying to say. I spend most of my time on this board with my nose in other people's business, rather than discussing my own problems. What would you say were the things about my posts that bother you..? Is it because I hardly ever put anything negative about my own situation..? Two days ago I read through my diary from last year, the first six months of our meeting. Every page is full of misery, unhappiness, unsettled feelings, wanting to walk away, wanting him to do something positive for us... I can't believe I went through all that (still am going through it, in many ways...). I suppose I'm just not someone who will come to a message board to ask other people what they think of things. The only time I've asked for advice here is last October when he said he was going to leave her... ... what happened then was he fell at the last hurdle. Couldn't say anything to his wife, didn't want to leave the children. But back then, we'd only been seeing each other for a few months (we met online). Since then he's worked through all (I think) of the things that stopped him last time (his fears she'd restrict access, worries that I was idealising him and our R, worries that his W wouldn't be able to cope without him... ) and he's sounding like he's about to do it. A few weeks ago he started a conversation off with her about how poor their R is, and how he may as well not live there any longer... she said, 'but the kids like you being here'. Well, he didn't go any further with it at that point. He says that he's spending a lot of time thinking of how he's going to bring it up again, what he's going to say. He's got everything in his head that he needs to work out... access, how they will break it to the kids, what to do about the finances, etc... he's just not DONE it yet. Meantime, I'm sort of believing that it MAY actually happen this time. But I read here... and there are no blueprints for it working out. Just many, many stories of heartbreak. My one thought is... that he'll go through with telling her, but she'll somehow talk him out of it. I don't know how true that is, or if it's just MY own fears and nothing to do with him. He says he's emotionally divorced from her, can't see a future for them, and only wants a future with me. At this point, I can't walk away (obviously...) but staying in this spot is really hard.
Sami_D Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 I just read a thread on another forum where the OW is now married to the married man and is very happy. She didn't say how long they've been married or what it took for them to get there, but there are successful stories out there! I don't know if that makes any difference, but they were both over 45 when it all happened. Perhaps maturity has more to do with it? She also mentioned that her MM decided himself that he didn't want to have a W and a GF and took care of the mess himself. That's a bit different from the stories here where the men have million excuses why they can't leave, where, in fact, they just choose not to leave. MM is almost 44 and I'm 43. On a good day I feel mature I know that MM is sick of this situation himself. Not least because apart from a day last week we haven't been able to see each other for 11 weeks. But in general he's tired of being torn between his home (tense atmosphere, but he gets to see his children) and how happy he feels when we're together. He's said what he wants to do... but until he does something..... .......
TonysTemptress Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 I was a family friend who had known Tony and his wife for 11 years. Tony and I had always had a crush on each other, and one day last year it became much more than that. Within days, we acknowledged that we were in love. We tried to push each other away, just to keep coming back to one another. My affair stopped being an affair at the beginning of October, when he signed a lease on an apartment with me and moved in. He left his wife and daughter (though he sees his daughter every weekday, and I see my daughter every weekday as well) and took the plunge to come and be with me. We have been living together since, and things just keep getting better between us. We are deeply in love; he has told his entire family, and my family knows everything as well. No, it was not easy - we both got a lot of blowback and lost some friends over this. A lot of people took his wife's side; He and she are now in the middle of a messy divorce - she was a SAHM who has now had to get a job. He still pays her mortgage and gives her some money, but that is coming to an end at the end of the school year for his daughter when he drops down to paying 50% of the mortgage plus spousal support OR 100% of the mortgage with no spousal support. Either way, STBXW won't be able to keep up with bills on what she makes, and the house will most likely be sold. In general, there has been an air of acceptance, if despondence and resignation (MM’s words) over there when he goes to visit his daughter after work every day. STBXW has gotten involved in Parents without Partners, gotten a job as a food service worker, and goes out with her girlfriends on occasion. She doesn’t bug MM anymore – doesn’t nag or berate him; just deals with him as things have to be dealt with. She knows that he and I are in love, and will be married next year, and mourns for her loss, I’m sure. I do feel badly for her circumstances, really – I don’t hate her, though she is desperately afraid of me. I know where this stems from – back before MM moved in with me, she was giving him sh*t to the point of making him cry and go fetal, and I stepped in and told her if she wanted to get to him, she had to go through me. She immediately called him back (she had done her crap over the phone) and berated him again, to which I called her back immediately and asked which part of “Leave him the F alone” didn’t she get? She had to know then and there that speaking to MM was a direct pipeline to me. I took her down verbally, and since then she has completely kept away from me – I believe I have spoken to her once, and that’s when she started whining and berating me in front of his daughter – not all that long ago, I believe. I called her and told her that there was a price for me leaving her alone, and that was not to speak my name to her daughter – she was tainting her. I will admit that when I am PO’d I can get a bit harsh, especially when I perceive someone as weak and lashing out. I cannot stand the way that STBXW has treated MM over the years, and if she dares try it again now that he is living with me, I have something to say about it, with MM’s okay of course – I have never said anything to her without MM’s okay. If she is contrite and resolute, part of me says “Good.” The other part of me really does feel badly for her – she can only be what she is, and she has never been a strong woman, a pretty woman, or an interesting woman. She maxed out with what she wanted to be in her life – she didn’t want to learn any more, do any more, be any more. My memories of her over time are shouting “Tony!” and berating him for one thing or another at all times. Do you know I used to think MM was a lot shorter than he is because he would walk like a beaten dog all the time? He’s six feet tall! Even STBXW’s family told her “If you don’t treat him better, you’re going to lose him.” Well, that’s what happened. MM gave her life on a silver platter, and IMHO she pissed on it. He built her an ivory tower, and then he left her in it. He and I may live in a little one bedroom apartment and scrape for every dime because he still pays the mortgage at his old residence and gives STBXW money every paycheck, but we have each other, love each other completely, and we are happy. If I sound like I am gloating, I don’t mean to gloat at her expense. It has to be really hard for her to evaluate her life; at least she is young enough to do it and get started. I wish her luck. I wish she could see that MM is happy – happier than he has ever been – and be happy for him as well, but she can’t see the forest for the trees. I guess I can understand that. His daughter is weird, and her mother’s daughter. She is also desperately afraid of me, though I don’t know why – I have never done anything to her. MM moved out completely of his own accord, and has explained to her exhaustively why STBXW and her antics made his heart wander elsewhere. She knows that MM and I are in love – deeply in love, she has been to our apartment when I wasn't there – but she will not see me or have anything to do with me. She has told MM that she will not come to our wedding (I don’t know if that will change by the time the wedding rolls around next year). Last night, he went over to visit her as he does every weeknight, and she sat next to him and said “Why did you do it? Why did you leave?” MM sighed, and told her that he had already said everything there was to say – she knew the answers, and sighed a big sigh. I hope some day she gives me a chance, but we just don’t know. I’m really sorry if I sound bitter and callous toward STBXW and his daughter – I know that I have “won” (as STBXW once put it), but I wish that they could be a little nicer and more accepting than they are. I know the divorce is ongoing and hard, but a little appreciation would be most welcome. Wishful thinking. In the mean time, I know I am the exception, but he has put a ring on my finger, taken me to all his office functions, told his parents and family, and comes home to me every single day. We are deeply in love.
Sami_D Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 TonysTemptress.. thanks for sharing your story. And putting another side of the whole affair situation. I hope you and he manage to get things sorted out with his daughter (your soon to be step-daughter) there are several places you can go to for advice and help and discussion on that.
Allegrokw Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 IT's been a while since I've posted and this seems like just the right thread to post on. About a month ago I left my MM of 3 years after many broken promises re: a divorce. He had separated and we were together for most of the three years. When I left him, he was still saying that he just couldn't get off the spot and go through with the final divorce. He and his W have gone through all of the discussions, etc about the marriage, where it is and should it end. She accepted him back each time he left me for a few weeks at a time. She has told him that "she will be okay" if they divorce. It was him that couldn't move. Anyway, after a month of very little contact, he called me and asked to see me. I agreed. He told me that he was leaving town, leaving his W and leaving me. That he just needed to sort out the rest of the situation by himself. We spent the last 3 days together, talking about all of this, making love, reminiscing about all of the times we shared, and all of the future plans that may never come to fruition. It was very sad, and very loving. This morning, he left. He said that he just needs to be alone to find the strength to finally live his dreams with me. He is 61, not a child, and very sure of what he wants. Especially to come back to me the "right way". I believe him. I may be wrong, but the only way to know is to let him go completely. I did so with so much love. So, even though I don't know what the future brings, I do know that it is not an ugly ending. Only the end of an Affair. Something I wish I had never gotten into in the first place. But, no regrets that I met the man of my dreams. Old Europe, your story is wonderful. Thank you for sharing it in a place where the is so much sadness and very little hope.
whats wrong with me Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 I'd be interested (after reading Kechara's post): http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t82507/ If you were a BS, did you eventually move on and think (with hindsight) that you were glad he left ? If you were the OW did you remain with for a while/are you still with the divorced MM and did it work out? How did your relationship change once you were out of the affair situation? Just interested to hear of people's experiences as most of the posts are from BS's whose husbands stayed with them after the affair was discovered or OW who are waiting for the MM to leave. I put a little of this somewhere else, and I know i sound like a b*tch and I'm sorry because I cant find the right words... I was the OW, after a year he split up w/ his wife. I took over as the Wife for 5-6 years. About a year after our affair became a marriage, he started having an affair w/ someone else. I was to naive to realize everything he did to his former wife and me as the OW was happening again only reversed. I left him and took his kids with me out of state, for about a year. He followed until I brought the kids back. When he was able to be closer to me he started trying to screw around on his new gf with me. (real jerk huh?) I wouldn't unless he dropped the gf. Anyway, I did take him back, for many reasons, love, money and revenge. He has cheated on me since we've been back together and I know this. Sometimes it HURTS me alot emotionally (why doesn't he love me blah blah) but then I come here and read the OW forum and realize he is an *sshole to me and the OW, and I get mad. THEN I remember 1 very important reason I took him back REVENGE.... Ispend every dime he makes. I refuse to work. I do EVERYTHING I can to make him hate me then I remind him he cant leave me or kick me out. The house is now mine, the cars are now mine. NOW I ALSO remind him that if HE leaves ME he will have nothing but the clothes on his back because I will destroy everything before he can get his hands on a penny. WHY am I telling you this? because I would like to go back and have never become involved w/ him in the first place, and if you guys could walk in my shoes you would never want to be w/ a man who doesn't love or respect the WIFE or the OW.
Sami_D Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 There are so many different stories on this thread I can't see how anyone can say 'they're all the same'... when evidently they're not.
einahpets Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 so for all of those that couldn't make it work with the MM after the end of his marriage....what was it? did he cheat on you, trust issues, it turned out not to be what you thought it was...?
OldEurope Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 THEN I remember 1 very important reason I took him back REVENGE.... Ispend every dime he makes. I refuse to work. I do EVERYTHING I can to make him hate me then I remind him he cant leave me or kick me out. The house is now mine, the cars are now mine. NOW I ALSO remind him that if HE leaves ME he will have nothing but the clothes on his back because I will destroy everything before he can get his hands on a penny. Is this really how you want to live your life? This man is totally controlling your life, though you think you've got power over him. It is a false power, a power stemming from total misery, resentment. Real "revenge" is living happily, living free, and living with a sense of action, not reaction.
foolinlove Posted February 27, 2006 Posted February 27, 2006 Yes he did leave.....two times. Once was for 11 months....this time is for good (I hope). I dont' think he sees the woman he married anymore. In her actions nor in his.
newbby Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 Is this really how you want to live your life? This man is totally controlling your life, though you think you've got power over him. It is a false power, a power stemming from total misery, resentment. Real "revenge" is living happily, living free, and living with a sense of action, not reaction. excellent, well said!
theantibarbie23 Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 I’m really sorry if I sound bitter and callous toward STBXW and his daughter – I know that I have “won” (as STBXW once put it), but I wish that they could be a little nicer and more accepting than they are. I know the divorce is ongoing and hard, but a little appreciation would be most welcome. Wishful thinking. His daughter isn't going to accept you with open arms because she most likely sees you as the reason her parents are splitting up (It doesn't matter if her father tells her differently) and it should be pretty obvious why the wife wouldn't be nice or accepting of you regardless of how crappy her marriage may of been. Children are the real victims of this sort of mess and I really hope that she's getting some sort of councilling to work through her anger and grief. You have to understand that you are the unwelcome invader in her life and it's totally normal for her to feel hostile torwards you. Hopefully with patience and understanding she'll come around someday.
catgirl1927 Posted February 28, 2006 Posted February 28, 2006 My aunt became involved with my now uncle almost 12 years ago... when he was still married to his first wife, with whom he had 4 children. He had cheated on his first wife SEVERAL times (like 6 or 7) in 15 years. When my aunt finally said, that's it, it's her or me, he picked her. He went back to his wife and she said, know what? I've had enough of your cheating, I want a divorce. So he went back to my aunt. She took him back, it's awful. So they were together for a while and sure enough, he cheated on her with 2 different women (relationships, I have no idea how many one night stands there were) and ended up asking her to leave so he could marry the second one. As soon as the marriage was official, he was over at my aunt's house, cheating on his wife with the woman he had dumped for her. Then the new wife found out about the cheating and left him. My aunt proceeds to move BACK in with him and told him if they didn't get married as soon as the divorce was final she would leave. So she married him. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he's cheating now. I think there are just some people who think they need more than one person, like a wife and a girlfriend. I know how much heartache my aunt went through, and how completely in the toilet her self esteem is right now. She says she loves him, she says she's happy. I will support her until the end of time in WHATEVER she wants, and if this falls apart I will pick up the pieces and take care of her as long as she needs it. There's so much pain on either side of an affair. Even though she's "won", sort of, rarely do things work out very well.
Author No Stress Lady Posted February 28, 2006 Author Posted February 28, 2006 My aunt became involved with my now uncle almost 12 years ago... when he was still married to his first wife, with whom he had 4 children. He had cheated on his first wife SEVERAL times (like 6 or 7) in 15 years. When my aunt finally said, that's it, it's her or me, he picked her. He went back to his wife and she said, know what? I've had enough of your cheating, I want a divorce. So he went back to my aunt. She took him back, it's awful. So they were together for a while and sure enough, he cheated on her with 2 different women (relationships, I have no idea how many one night stands there were) and ended up asking her to leave so he could marry the second one. As soon as the marriage was official, he was over at my aunt's house, cheating on his wife with the woman he had dumped for her. Then the new wife found out about the cheating and left him. My aunt proceeds to move BACK in with him and told him if they didn't get married as soon as the divorce was final she would leave. So she married him. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he's cheating now. I think there are just some people who think they need more than one person, like a wife and a girlfriend. I know how much heartache my aunt went through, and how completely in the toilet her self esteem is right now. She says she loves him, she says she's happy. I will support her until the end of time in WHATEVER she wants, and if this falls apart I will pick up the pieces and take care of her as long as she needs it. There's so much pain on either side of an affair. Even though she's "won", sort of, rarely do things work out very well. Good grief, what a drama to go through. I don't think I'd have had the energy to stick at it with this guy like your aunt has. It sounds like they are the most bizarre couple - to an outsider he sounds like a total idiot but she obviously thinks that she loves him and he's worth it. It must be exhausting for you having to pick up the pieces all the time - how do the rest of your family view your aunt's situation? Do they help out much with giving her emotional support or do they think she's beyond help? It's good that you're there for her, I hope she appreciates you!!!!
RecordProducer Posted March 3, 2006 Posted March 3, 2006 I’m really sorry if I sound bitter and callous toward STBXW and his daughter – I know that I have “won” (as STBXW once put it), but I wish that they could be a little nicer and more accepting than they are. I know the divorce is ongoing and hard, but a little appreciation would be most welcome. Wishful thinking. Appreciation for what? Just take things slowly and show a little compassion on YOUR side. Then give them some time. Too much control can bounce back at you if you do it in an arrogant way. We are deeply in love. You've been repeating this too many times! Just kidding... Love is complicated and wonderful. Take your time and give time to accept. Things will fall into their own place sooner or later. You and your fiance deserve to be happy and together.
Leg Man Posted March 4, 2006 Posted March 4, 2006 I left my wife and now I am dating my girlfriend for which I left my wife.
Guest Posted March 6, 2006 Posted March 6, 2006 how long have you been w/ your girlfriend? is your relationship w/ her still like it was before you left your wife? truthfully...did why did you leave your wife? was it her attitude, looks, combination? sorry for all the questions it is just very rare that a man posts. AND I would like to know what REALLY made you choose the girlfriend...I've never found a man that would tell a woman the truth.
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