Husband neglecting you?

[Outcast]

Moose, if he or she ups and leaves, there is NO 'fixing the problem' that can possibly be done. And if you would come off your little happy pink cloud, you'd realize it happens to people ALL THE TIME. People who TRUSTED their spouses with their souls.

[Woggle]

Even your advice to others scream the "d" word.

 

I don't think you even have a small clue what a commitment like marriage even is.

 

he is threateneing to have him killed. Any woman who had a husband that us making death threats against ehr would be put in a shelter and rightfully so so why should it be different the other way?

[OldEurope]

I am sorry, but I agree in large part with what Woggle is saying here. Marriage is a dedication of love, honor and respect on both sides. Not a trip to a Church and then the eternal right to terrify someone for the rest of their life.

 

I certainly do not think Woggle is a misogynist. If he is critical of certain aspects of women's behavior as he has experienced it, perhaps he has legitimate reasons for such. One can be wary of a woman's motives without being against the whole gender--I mean, look, he apparently is taking the big step nonetheless!

 

His comment about the feminists was perhaps extreme ("KKK"). But I can tell you, I work in the media, and it has happened that when a group of female journalists detects that you are not at one with them on feminism as a whole or if one is critical of that movement, you are totally ostracized. I have experienced that.

 

I find it odd that women who constantly complain about men, "men are this" or "all men are (fill in the blank)" get offended when a man might make an offhand generalization on us gals. I mean at the end of the day, So What?

[Woggle]

I am sorry, but I agree in large part with what Woggle is saying here. Marriage is a dedication of love, honor and respect on both sides. Not a trip to a Church and then the eternal right to terrify someone for the rest of their life.

 

I certainly do not think Woggle is a misogynist. If he is critical of certain aspects of women's behavior as he has experienced it, perhaps he has legitimate reasons for such. One can be wary of a woman's motives without being against the whole gender--I mean, look, he apparently is taking the big step nonetheless!

 

His comment about the feminists was perhaps extreme ("KKK"). But I can tell you, I work in the media, and it has happened that when a group of female journalists detects that you are not at one with them on feminism as a whole or if one is critical of that movement, you are totally ostracized. I have experienced that.

 

I find it odd that women who constantly complain about men, "men are this" or "all men are (fill in the blank)" get offended when a man might make an offhand generalization on us gals. I mean at the end of the day, So What?

 

Exactly. You and Whichwayisup get it and I thank you for seeing my views for what they are.I don't hate all women. I am getting married this June and I have some female friends. I even helped a female coworker get a promotion. That being said I just point out my gripes with certain types of woman. In this society you hear all the time how horrible men are so I guess it is a shock to some when I give my side witout apologizing for having a penis.

[Moose]

Moose, if he or she ups and leaves, there is NO 'fixing the problem' that can possibly be done.

Then let them leave!! What's the big deal? Isn't that the whole goal? Get them out when they aren't behaving, or meeting up to their expectations?

And if you would come off your little happy pink cloud, you'd realize it happens to people ALL THE TIME.

No joke. I watched my mom go through it 3 times.....so far.... you're not telling me anything I didn't already know. And what happy cloud are you talking about? Mrs. Moose and I have our problems, and our differences. We just work through them, not around them.

People who TRUSTED their spouses with their souls.

A little bit ago, you said trust has nothing to do with it.....I think you're beginning to see it the way I do....

he is threateneing to have him killed. Any woman who had a husband that us making death threats against ehr would be put in a shelter and rightfully so so why should it be different the other way?

Oh please. Consider who's doing the threatening.....a 19 year old, immature little girl. You should hear my teenagers fighting.....

I am sorry, but I agree in large part with what Woggle is saying here. Marriage is a dedication of love, honor and respect on both sides. Not a trip to a Church and then the eternal right to terrify someone for the rest of their life.

But that's what he's doing here. He's expecting his new wife to act a certain way, for the full term of their, "marriage".

Exactly. You and Whichwayisup get it and I thank you for seeing my views for what they are.I don't hate all women. I am getting married this June and I have some female friends. I even helped a female coworker get a promotion. That being said I just point out my gripes with certain types of woman. In this society you hear all the time how horrible men are so I guess it is a shock to some when I give my side witout apologizing for having a penis.

Look, I truly empathize with what's happened in your past. But that's just what it is. You're allowing something that's happened to you in the past dictate what you do in your life now.

 

It's hard to for me to agree with your idea of a pre-nup to demand your new wife to behave a certain way. You're taking all of her rights to stand up for herself.

 

It's especially hard to respect a person that does this too.

 

I suppose, if she does sign this, it's her bed she's going to have to lie in.

 

Poor girl......

[Woggle]

If a 19 year old girl is not mature enough to be held accountable for her actions she should not be married.

 

Our prenup has an abuse and cheating clause which applies to both of us. I have to treat her with respect as well. No double standards here.

[Moose]

If a 19 year old girl is not mature enough to be held accountable for her actions she should not be married.

My thought exactly. Glad we agree.

Our prenup has an abuse and cheating clause which applies to both of us. I have to treat her with respect as well. No double standards here.

Well....good for you. I just don't understand why you'd have to draw up a pre-nup, when these things are already in your vows.

 

This is a clear display of your dis-trust towards eachother in my eyes.....

[a4a]

Moose I needed a pre nup..... I brought my business to the table..... my personal assests supply this business, buildings on OUR PROPERTY ect. Now if my H for some reason left, cheated, abused, or became insane, I can protect those assets from his wayward activities. < i love that term >

 

If I did not protect those assets I could not only destroy my life but my work that has a great positive effect on others and our community. Can I trust him not to.......yes 99.9% But that small percentage is not worth risking in my view...... no big deal. You can love a person, you can trust them, but you cannot control them. So you protect yourself.

 

Of course in my case it is not just about protecting myself... but the work of others as well.

[Moose]

Moose I needed a pre nup..... I brought my business to the table..... my personal assests supply this business, buildings on OUR PROPERTY ect. Now if my H for some reason left, cheated, abused, or became insane, I can protect those assets from his wayward activities. < i love that term >

 

If I did not protect those assets I could not only destroy my life but my work that has a great positive effect on others and our community. Can I trust him not to.......yes 99.9% But that small percentage is not worth risking in my view...... no big deal. You can love a person, you can trust them, but you cannot control them. So you protect yourself.

 

Of course in my case it is not just about protecting myself... but the work of others as well.

Well, some people take more stock in their belongings, than they do in their relationships.

 

To me, that's not right. Is that ok with everybody??? Tough if it isn't.....

[Outcast]

Then let them leave!! What's the big deal? Isn't that the whole goal? Get them out when they aren't behaving, or meeting up to their expectations?

 

Well, no, you can hogtie them to the basement stairs if they insist on going, I guess The point, Moose, that you keep missing is IF they up and leave they have rights to half YOUR assets even if they didn't contribute to them. So why not have an agreement that says 'we agree not to be party to the divorce law and to keep our assets separate should we part ways - each leaves with what s/he brought in and joint possessions will be divided equally'?

 

Huh? Please tell me why that's soooooooo wrong.

[Art_Critic]

Well, some people take more stock in their belongings, than they do in their relationships.

 

To me, that's not right. Is that ok with everybody??? Tough if it isn't.....

 

Moose.. would you still feel the same way if at the time of your marriage you had all of the personal wealth you have now ?

 

See.. you achieved that wealth while being married.. so a prenup wouldn't have changed the outcome in the event of a divorce..

 

But if you had then what you had today perhaps maybe you might think different..

 

your trying to look at something on a side of the fence that you can see properly because you haven't been there..or never will be..

[a4a]

Well, some people take more stock in their belongings, than they do in their relationships.

 

To me, that's not right. Is that ok with everybody??? Tough if it isn't.....

 

I put great stock into my R. however I have worked for 12 years to build my life so I can help others...... I cannot allow any person to threaten that. It is not belongings.......those can be destroyed in a moment. It is my life mission that is at risk.

 

It is different than a normal R. And I have been cheated on and cheated out of a house I basically built with my own two hands. Gone....... funny I could have used that cash to help others..... but I was not smart enough to protect my work, my assets, myself.

[Moose]

The point, Moose, that you keep missing is IF they up and leave they have rights to half YOUR assets even if they didn't contribute to them.

I'm not missing any point. I know exactly where you're coming from. It just doesn't matter to me. JEEEEZZZ.

 

If Mrs. Moose leaves and takes half, or all that I own, FINE! She oviously needs it more than I do. Besides, if that were to ever happen, some of my kids may choose to go with her. I wouldn't want them to suffer. And if she needed more from me later....I'd probably do what I could.

keep our assets separate should we part ways - each leaves with what s/he brought in and joint possessions will be divided equally'?

I believe when you get married, there's no such thing as SEPERATE possesions. When you marry, you are 2 becoming 1. Why is this so hard for you people to understand?

Huh? Please tell me why that's soooooooo wrong.

To me it's wrong because you're telling the person that you vow to spend the rest of your life with that you don't trust them. Where's the honor in marriage if you have a piece of paper saying that your lifetime investment isn't worth a dime? But when you can step back 30-50 years down the road, and say, "Look at what we did Babe....", well, you can't put a price on that.

Moose.. would you still feel the same way if at the time of your marriage you had all of the personal wealth you have now ?

I really can't answer that. Maybe. I don't know. I do know my heart, and when I married Mrs. Moose, I gave it, and my life to her.

I put great stock into my R. however I have worked for 12 years to build my life so I can help others...... I cannot allow any person to threaten that. It is not belongings.......those can be destroyed in a moment. It is my life mission that is at risk

So, what would stop you from doing it again? Don't you think you're capable? Sure, it would suckith if you had to start from scratch again, but anything worth doing takes a lot of hard work.

[a4a]

Moose I am 37 years old, I do not have much time left as a physical being to raise a barn with my own two hands. If it got taken in a divorce I would have to quite literally build everything all over. Hard work..... you sound like you know about hard work. I have a responsibility to protect the assets I worked hard for both long ago and built with my own to hands to fulfill a promise to those that have helped me to help others. It would be highly irresponsible for me not to protect those things.

 

What if you built a church/homeless shelter with your own money to help others and your wife divorced you and demanded half?

[whichwayisup]

My thought exactly. Glad we agree.Well....good for you. I just don't understand why you'd have to draw up a pre-nup, when these things are already in your vows.

 

This is a clear display of your dis-trust towards eachother in my eyes.....

Not really, but I understand what you're saying too Moose.

 

My bestfriend has money. Alot of it is family money and her husband had to sign a prenup. Ofcourse god forbid they ever split up he'll get something, but honestly they don't look at it in a negative way. He had always said from day one he would never ask for anything anyway - But, given the wrong cirumstances, emotional stress or whatever IF something DID happen, people DO things that they normally wouldn't do...Lawyers get involved, push the right buttons...Maybe some friends/family edging one on...Outcast said similar things too in one of her posts on this thread.

 

It isn't a clear distrust, it's protecting what is originally yours. IF two people are OK with it, then why is it distrusting??

 

In this society you hear all the time how horrible men are so I guess it is a shock to some when I give my side witout apologizing for having a penis.

 

Better you got one of those, instead of what us women have... If I had one of what you guys have, I'd never get out of bed!

[Becoming]

Moose I am 37 years old, I do not have much time left as a physical being to raise a barn with my own two hands. If it got taken in a divorce I would have to quite literally build everything all over. Hard work..... you sound like you know about hard work. I have a responsibility to protect the assets I worked hard for both long ago and built with my own to hands to fulfill a promise to those that have helped me to help others. It would be highly irresponsible for me not to protect those things.

 

What if you built a church/homeless shelter with your own money to help others and your wife divorced you and demanded half?

 

. . . after running off with the choir director? (Let's just keep it at homeless shelter. Churches generally don't belong to any one person. )

 

I can see the need for a pre-nup in some circumstances. In the cases where a business is at stake, other employees' lives are at risk. In the case of the homeless shelter, lives really may be lost.

 

But I can also see Moose's point. I think, though, Mr. Moose, that folks take offense at a moral absolutism without any wiggle room. (Or is that Woggle room?)

[Moose]

What if you built a church/homeless shelter with your own money to help others and your wife divorced you and demanded half?

As long as the Church or Shelter lives on.....I don't see a problem with it. If she's taking it to destroy it, then that's on her head.

It isn't a clear distrust, it's protecting what is originally yours.

Why would anyone say they love you, want to share the rest of their life with you....but wait.....you can't have this, or have that???? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Besides, this discussion keeps jumping back and forth from behavioural demands, to monitary possessions.

 

There's a big difference.

[whichwayisup]

Why would anyone say they love you, want to share the rest of their life with you....but wait.....you can't have this, or have that???? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Because usually at some point IF the marriage goes down the toilet, people can CHANGE for the worse. Hurt feelings, raw emotions and anger can turn the most loving and wonderful person into something else, given how bad the situation is. I get the point noone really should be thinking things like protecting yourself just incase...But it doesn't have to be negative and it doesn't have to mean the marriage is doomed if a pre-nup is signed.

[OldEurope]

I'm not missing any point. I know exactly where you're coming from. It just doesn't matter to me. JEEEEZZZ.

 

. When you marry, you are 2 becoming 1. Why is this so hard for you people to understand?

 

 

Because you are not two becoming one. You are two Individuals becoming a Couple. And the strength of the coupledom depends solely upon the vitality and consistency of the character and values of these separate individuals being invested in the marriage.

 

A pre nup for the wealthy, rather than being founded on distrust, reinforces the committment TO trust. That is, it seeks to confirm sincerity and honesty on either side as the basis of the marriage, and no other motive. It wishes to keep clear that the maintenance of the relationship in the state around which marriage was proposed, as the fundamental purpose, goal.

 

Church vows are essentially the pronouncement of fidelity. They are not a guardian against abuse, nor should they be.

[Moose]

Because you are not two becoming one. You are two Individuals becoming a Couple.

That's a matter of opinion. My thought is anyone sharing that garbage doesn't know what marriage was intended for.

 

Before I get slammed, it is ok, and it's my right to disagree.

 

So save it......

[Outcast]

To me it's wrong because you're telling the person that you vow to spend the rest of your life with that you don't trust them

 

No. You still don't get it. It's not about not trusting THEM. It's about not trusting LIFE. That LIFE won't turn them bitter or make them mentally ill or in some way do violence to them so they desert you, walk out, and leave you crushed. And you say that you think it's fine to be left penniless, too? Forget kids. Deal with childless couples here. I know two women screwed out of their homes by men who had more than enough money to have their own homes. The women had to give up their assets in the divorce because the men got real barracuda lawyers. One is disabled and is very poor. The other has to live with HER mother - who is quite elderly.

 

Both women actually owned more than half their houses but yes, people can take your house when its value increases and you can no longer afford to buy out your partner.

 

You think they should have 'trusted' those men who subsequently changed and turned on them? Sure, you trust the person you marry but, Moose, people change. You should be thanking God your wife hasn't done this to you rather than lecturing people who have had it done to them.

 

You have zero empathy, Moose. You're sooo happy in your little nest you don't see what happens to people who don't get to live that way. And you clearly don't care much about the difficulties people you have known have suffered.

[Moose]

No. You still don't get it. It's not about not trusting THEM. It's about not trusting LIFE. That LIFE won't turn them bitter or make them mentally ill or in some way do violence to them so they desert you, walk out, and leave you crushed.

Life is truely hard Outcast. You have to take your lumps. What you do with them determines the rest of your life. You talk like I've never been screwed. You don't know the worst half of my life.

And you say that you think it's fine to be left penniless, too?

Just because a person has a lot of money doesn't mean their life revolves around it. Throw me into poverty, I'll bounce back eventually. Every day to me is a gift. Not a burden.

Forget kids. Deal with childless couples here.

Fine. I still say that if two people are willing to enter into a LIFETIME relationship they should be willing to put all of their love, hopes, dreams.....and possessions on the table for both to be stewards of.

 

IF the two are on the same page, it can only grow from there.

I know two women screwed out of their homes by men who had more than enough money to have their own homes. The women had to give up their assets in the divorce because the men got real barracuda lawyers. One is disabled and is very poor. The other has to live with HER mother - who is quite elderly.

 

Both women actually owned more than half their houses but yes, people can take your house when its value increases and you can no longer afford to buy out your partner.

Questions then:

 

What have you done lately to lighten their burden?

 

On who's head is this tragedy going to land?

 

What about the flip side of the coin?

 

What about the ex-wife and 2.25 kids who supported dad through his climb to wealth who aren't entitled to a decent life because mommy signed a pre-nump?

You think they should have 'trusted' those men who subsequently changed and turned on them? Sure, you trust the person you marry but, Moose, people change.

Of course they change. I've done a lot of changing, and so has Mrs. Moose. Only we define change as, "growth". We both slip too. We call that a, "whoooops". We have an unconditional love towards each other. THAT'S what marriage is about.

You should be thanking God your wife hasn't done this to you rather than lecturing people who have had it done to them.

What do mean should be? I do on a daily basis. Maybe not in so many precise words or phrases. But I do let Him know I'm eternally grateful for all that she is and does for me. More so, if she does take off, and take me for everything I have, to me, it's better that I had loved her than not loved her at all.

You have zero empathy, Moose.

And you should know? You haven't a clue.

You're sooo happy in your little nest you don't see what happens to people who don't get to live that way. And you clearly don't care much about the difficulties people you have known have suffered.

You don't know anything about my ministry to others. You're just making blind assumptions.

 

If you knew an inkling of what I've done, (and have commited myself to do), you wouldn't go anywhere NEAR where you just went.

 

May I remind you? I asked what have you done for the two women you spoke about a little bit ago?

[OldEurope]

That's a matter of opinion. My thought is anyone sharing that garbage doesn't know what marriage was intended for.

 

Before I get slammed, it is ok, and it's my right to disagree.

 

So save it......

 

 

Your right to disagree---and mine as well.

 

So then why call my point of view "garbage" and tell me "to save it"?

 

You are rather defensive and, it strikes me, a somewhat insecure man.

[Moose]

Your right to disagree---and mine as well.

 

So then why call my point of view "garbage" and tell me "to save it"?

 

You are rather defensive and, it strikes me, a somewhat insecure man.

I don't know why.....because to me it is garbage? And as far as, "save it", others around here look for opportunities to bash.

 

If you took offense, I apologize. I meant it as a generalization, not really aimed particularly at you.

 

I'm not insecure, I'm merely sharing my thoughts. But some people follow me around to bash them and get my goat. I was saving them some time, or at least I thought......