My_Other_I Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 Question for the exOW and the current ones. When you go out are you effected by your past as the OW? Do you think of your self as not worthy when you talk to guys? Do you think there must be something seriously wrong with you to fall for a MM and believe the lies? Do you carry this baggage with you? If so, what are you planning on doing about it? What kind of damages has your ego gone through? What have you learned? What are your feelings about the whole thing? I'm asking because I still at times find my self feeling self-concious while talking to other people because I carry a 'stigma'. I'm labeled. I am brutally honest with people and everyone around me knows that I was the OW. I am taking a long break from dating and focusing on self discovery and improvement. I am not ashamed of my past. I know my wrong doings and own my behavior (took time ), but sometimes guilt sneaks up on me and effects my interaction with others. Sometimes it doesn't matter that I am educated, intelligent, outgoing, careing. All my positives dissolve in my label. Just like being gay in some people's eyes. You can't see nothing but the label. Am I making excuses for my self?
newbby Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 making excuses for what? self limitation? i'm not sure. i think we all are guilty of that. dont wear this label though, what is the point in this? does it serve you or anybody else, that you WERE ONCE the ow? why wear it? i spoke about it with a few friends at the time, but now i dont, unless it is relevant. if i met a guy, i would not tell him, because, that would give him a false impression of me, possibly, from the outset. i would wait until he got to know me, and then i might tell him.
Sami_D Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 Wooooo. Lots of questions there. I don't think there's a blanket 'all OW are guilty of this'... blah blah, diagnosis. Whatever things led you to your R with your MM will be different from those that led me to my R with my MM. Not all of them are necessarily shameful or disgraceful. Some of them may even be glorious. But for one thing, I wouldn't go around telling everyone about the 'mistakes' I did or did not make... it's no one else's business. You're labelling yourself..? Why do that when so many self-righteous individuals will happily do that for you..? Why are you doing that..? Are you looking for absolution? forgiveness? pity? what..? Other people's opinions are just that... opinions belonging to other people... never mind all that. Concentrate on yourself and your life and your future. Stigma my arse.
Author My_Other_I Posted February 19, 2006 Author Posted February 19, 2006 Stigma my arse. Other people's experiences is exactly what I'm looking for.
erika2610 Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 Question for the exOW and the current ones. When you go out are you effected by your past as the OW? Do you think of your self as not worthy when you talk to guys? Do you think there must be something seriously wrong with you to fall for a MM and believe the lies? Do you carry this baggage with you? If so, what are you planning on doing about it? What kind of damages has your ego gone through? What have you learned? What are your feelings about the whole thing? I'm asking because I still at times find my self feeling self-concious while talking to other people because I carry a 'stigma'. I'm labeled. I am brutally honest with people and everyone around me knows that I was the OW. I am taking a long break from dating and focusing on self discovery and improvement. I am not ashamed of my past. I know my wrong doings and own my behavior (took time ), but sometimes guilt sneaks up on me and effects my interaction with others. Sometimes it doesn't matter that I am educated, intelligent, outgoing, careing. All my positives dissolve in my label. Just like being gay in some people's eyes. You can't see nothing but the label. Am I making excuses for my self? It was part of my past.. and that's where it is, my past. I know there's nothing wrong with me.. I was at a vulnerable point in my life, and he preyed on that. I do not carry it with me.. I've moved on. Yes, people in my life know I was an OW, but that hasn't effected me at all. I don't go telling guys that I meet that I was an OW.. because that's only a part of my past, that's not who I am now. It will only effect you if you let it.
Chump64 Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 Hope it's ok if I answer (betrayed spouse). I'm curious about why this question is directed only toward women. I think there is a huge stigma in our society about being the OW or the OM. (Which is odd, considering the huge numbers of the population who cheat.) I do think that being involved in an inappropriate relationship says something about your character. Do I hold that against people? I am not sure I hold it against them, but I surely remember it and it leaps into my brain the minute I hear their names. When I hear, "Nancy XXX is having a bday party Friday," I think "Great, that will be fun." I also automatically recall "She's the one who got involved with Dave, and he left his wife for Nancy." It becomes part of who you are, forever. It's part of why my husband is, forever. It's not a good part, either. (However, if we are very, very lucky, it's something that will eventually draw us tighter together and make us a better couple than we have ever been.) It's something he has no reason to be proud of, and it's something that none of our friends (save for a few close ones) and relatives will know anything about. Ever. What is the point of sharing info that is better left alone? I don't believe it should be compared to being gay, b/c in my opinion, being gay is like being Caucasion or AA or Chinese -- you are what you are. Alternatively, you choose to get involved in an affair that you know is wrong. Honestly, in what universe can that behavior ever be condoned or seen as the right thing to do? You aren't making excuses for yourself. You seem to be owning what you've done. I see no reason to advertise it though. That seems like a ign of unresolved guilt, perhaps.
erika2610 Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 It becomes part of who you are, forever. But why should it be? That's only a small part of what I am. I'm a different person now, so why should it stay with me? I'm a very nice, caring person.. who would give you the shirt off my back if need be. Why should the fact the I was once an OW make people focus on that? People should be able to look past that.
Author My_Other_I Posted February 19, 2006 Author Posted February 19, 2006 Champ, you might be right. There is still guilt creeping in. BUT, you all focus on one statement I made; that of me telling my friends about what I do. I want to people to know ME, and if it's a part of my past, it's still a part of me. I want to tell the guys about me (not only the OW part, but other oopses, too) so they have the opportunity to decide for themselves if they want to be with me or not. I don't go around saying: "Hey, guess what, I was the OW" I was just curious about what other people who have been down that road feel and think. I know I still have ways to go before this whole thing is really past me (I am over my MM, but not over my behavior) and I want to see if this is normal. Thanks all for your inputs!
Chump64 Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 Erika, what you have done has hurt other people. It showed carelessness and recklessness. It's like having a drunk driving charge, or robbing a bank, or stealing an old lady's purse. It may be in the past, and you may well have learned from it and moved on, but it was a very dark thing and it can't be undone. People who know about it will always, always remember it. It can't go away, even if you are a completely "new" person, in your own mind. Scarlet letter, indeed. Does that mean people should hold it against you? I don't necessarily think so, but they will. Does it really matter? I may well be able to forgive my husband and love him with all my heart and soul, and we may live to be 95 years old and have a super happy life from here on out. Yet I will always remember that dark thing about him. People who have been the Affair Partner probably won't see this the same way I see it because you all have much more empathy for each other. I think that my view may be more realistic, outside the realm of the Affair Partner.
erika2610 Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 Erika, what you have done has hurt other people. It showed carelessness and recklessness. It's like having a drunk driving charge, or robbing a bank, or stealing an old lady's purse. It may be in the past, and you may well have learned from it and moved on, but it was a very dark thing and it can't be undone. People who know about it will always, always remember it. It can't go away, even if you are a completely "new" person, in your own mind. Scarlet letter, indeed. Does that mean people should hold it against you? I don't necessarily think so, but they will. Does it really matter? I may well be able to forgive my husband and love him with all my heart and soul, and we may live to be 95 years old and have a super happy life from here on out. Yet I will always remember that dark thing about him. People who have been the Affair Partner probably won't see this the same way I see it because you all have much more empathy for each other. I think that my view may be more realistic, outside the realm of the Affair Partner. See, I don't know. I've never had anybody bring it up. I've never encountered anybody who couldn't see past that, or anybody who wanted to brand a Red 'A' on my forhead. I don't think it equates to criminal acts either.. people who love me, have dropped it, and understood what I went through. As I said, it's only a small part of me and what I've done.
erika2610 Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 I'm very curious to see what others do think though, this's a good thread..
Sami_D Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 I think there are different things to consider... as I said in my first post... the reasons for being in an EMA differ. The ways we were involved, reasons... and the way we look at it... the way we look at the BS, etc. ALL differs. The way we are as people varies in every situation we are in. Some are good parents, some poor, some are loving spouses, some not... some are happy and smug OW (maybe.. though i haven't seen ONE on this forum), many are not that... and plenty are involved in an a not because they have no morals, or self-respect, or brains, or whatever it takes... simply being an OW isn't a set of clothes you put on that defines you. You're you... with all the problems, issues and whatever you have weather you are in an EMA, an abusive R, a bad marriage, or never involve yourself in a R at all. Often, an OW in one period in her life will be a BS in another time in that same life... same person... so what's the explanation..? All this reading too much into it... oftentimes... there's nothing much to be read into it. Two people meet ... and it will go on from there...
OzGirl Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 When you go out are you effected by your past as the OW? Yes, but only within the confines of my own brain. I am always accutely aware of how much fun we used to have - we laughed a lot together, and even the most mundane tasks would end up in us making each other laugh. That's all I miss - the laughs. Unfortunately, it's not something that's easily replicated wtih anyone else because it's personal to the individual. Do you think of your self as not worthy when you talk to guys? No, I think of THEM as not worthy. I think of them as predatory lying creeps. I'm sure they're not all like that, but, that's how I feel. Sceptical, and generally, unreceptive. Do you think there must be something seriously wrong with you to fall for a MM and believe the lies? I wouldn't say seriously wrong - just one of those self-esteems where I just wanted to 'feel special', and then the first man to do that was a MM. We made each other laugh - it was intoxicating. When all those endorphins are running through your veins, his marrital status pales in significance - and that applied for us both. Do you carry this baggage with you? Yes, but it's not that heavy anymore. If so, what are you planning on doing about it? Letting it fade with time. What kind of damages has your ego gone through? A few, but they've been repaired - sometimes you can't control anything other than your reaction to a situation - my reactions I've been relatively proud of. And, thanks to LS website, I've found a lot of my peace through the stories of other OW. I realise I'm not so abnormal afterall. What have you learned? To take things more slowly, to be suspicious, to look for evidence, to be fair, that men can be predators, that men can be the source of the most amazing feelings, and that in the wake of a bad situation going worse, the men will dissappear. Ie, why are so many of the people who post on these forums women? Where's the MM posting saying how remorseful they feel towards us? HA! What more is there to say on that! What are your feelings about the whole thing? Hard to say - the entire spectrum of feelings, including hope and grief have been on a 24 hour roster for 6 months. My current feelings are just getting more and more diluted over time - like as if the sadness is becoming just a boring subject to me now. I feel relatively indifferent now - but I still read things in this forum and woooosh, I want to defend a point rather strongly. I get mad at the assumptions made by wives, for example, that we are all like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction. We're not. We're just lovely women who wanted to be loved, and got sucked in to a bad relationship - if we were married to a man that beat us up, it would be all sympathy our way. But, we get roped into an affair - well, it's a different story. The pain is no less - just different. As for being self-concious, try not to be. I look at my friends - all happily married with wonderful husbands.... just ask them.... And, I KNOW they look at me like I'm the black sheep - everything in my life has not been purely maintaining some antiquated legacy of my own disfunctional parents. I think to myself - I KNOW they talk about me like I'm foolish and frivolous... but, my life is INTERESTING.... it has good bits and whopping bad bits... but I feel alive and I'm free to take or leave anything I choose, including a stupid man (a freedom that neither the W or MM immediately have in the wake of this.... there ARE benefits to not being married to him in the end...!!!). It's no one's place to judge me. Don't be self-concious - it's a feeling your MM caused - don't let him. He's caused enough damage, I'm sure, already. If you feel judged - change the company you're keeping.
newbby Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 Erika, what you have done has hurt other people. It showed carelessness and recklessness. It's like having a drunk driving charge, or robbing a bank, or stealing an old lady's purse. It may be in the past, and you may well have learned from it and moved on, but it was a very dark thing and it can't be undone. People who know about it will always, always remember it. It can't go away, even if you are a completely "new" person, in your own mind. Scarlet letter, indeed. i dont really go along with this way of thinking. hold on to everything, beliefs of yourself etc. do you realise that most people live unconsciously through their own identity beliefs? therefore, branding somebody an ow, and they branding themselves one, or wearing that forever, only makes them more likely to act those characteristics, that she supposedly has. branding your h a cheating a**hole, and making him live that identity isnt gonna help you or your marriage. just a piece of advice for you. i am certainly not going to be walking around believing myself to be something or other because i once had an affair. thats just crazy. all it would do is lead to more feelings of worthlessness which would make you more likely to grab at false promises of happiness. now HOW would that help anybody? Does that mean people should hold it against you? I don't necessarily think so, but they will. Does it really matter? I may well be able to forgive my husband and love him with all my heart and soul, and we may live to be 95 years old and have a super happy life from here on out. Yet I will always remember that dark thing about him.suit yourself.
No Stress Lady Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 Question for the exOW and the current ones. When you go out are you effected by your past as the OW? Do you think of your self as not worthy when you talk to guys? Do you think there must be something seriously wrong with you to fall for a MM and believe the lies? Do you carry this baggage with you? If so, what are you planning on doing about it? What kind of damages has your ego gone through? What have you learned? What are your feelings about the whole thing? When I go out, no I'm not affected by my past as a former OW. I've never thought of myself as "unworthy" when I've spoken to men I've always taken the view that MM are unlikely to leave their wives so I've never believed them when they've raised the issue!!! I've certainly spent a lot of time thinking about the relationships I've had and although I've never felt the guilt of actually breaking up a marriage I have, as I've grown older, learnt to see a lot more perspectives on the issue, just things like seeing my friends marry and knowing how upset they would be if their husbands strayed. I've felt less comfortable with things in hindsight which is why my posts always tend to be discouraging would-be OW when they ask if they should embark on an affair. I think there is definitely a stigma to being the OW - it's not something I broadcast although my close friends know all about my relationships - MM and straightforward boyfriends. They've always been honest with me and non judgemental which I appreciate; I have always been the same with them, particularly those of them that have had any dealings with MM themselves. I've always tried to stay emotionally independent and cannot imagine anything worse than hanging on for years for a guy who can't or won't extricate himself from his marriage......I also don't think that an affair is necessarily a good starting basis for a relationship in the long term. Those are my views anyway. I think it's a shame that there seem to be so many women out there with so much to offer just wasting their lives on MM who are just stringing them along...... I am getting married myself this year and one thing I will say is that I have learnt an awful lot about MM through my involvement and have come to appreciate a lot of the reasons for them straying - it might sound a bit strange but in some ways I think my experiences will actually be beneficial to my marriage in that I've had some interesting insights into the male psyche..............I don't regret anything and I've learnt an awful lot.
newbby Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 a good positive attitude no stress lady. nice post!
elmejor Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Erika, what you have done has hurt other people. It showed carelessness and recklessness. It's like having a drunk driving charge, or robbing a bank, or stealing an old lady's purse. It may be in the past, and you may well have learned from it and moved on, but it was a very dark thing and it can't be undone. People who know about it will always, always remember it. It can't go away, even if you are a completely "new" person, in your own mind. Scarlet letter, indeed. You are very wrong here, Chump. Being an OW is not a crime, so no, having been an OW is not "like having a drunk driving charge, robbing a bank, etc." And perhaps you are not aware, but there are many many people in the world who do not care what other people think of them. "Oh, no people who know about it will always, always, remember it..." What other people think is not as important as you suggest, imo. Huge stigma in society? Not in the twenty-first century, haven't you noticed?
Curmudgeon Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Often, an OW in one period in her life will be a BS in another time in that same life... same person... so what's the explanation..? karma? Or could it be a more ready acceptance, given the past?
scarletletter Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 The only stigma I carry around with me is that I am a total coward for not getting out of a hopeless marriage sooner. I am never down on myself for the decisions that I make. They are usually well thought out before I make them, even the bad ones.
Aaurora Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 I don't carry any kind of stigma around with me, I don't think of myself as less of a person to have fallen for a man who is involved with someone else. I can't stop who I fall in love with, I don't think any of us can. I am still carrying around my sadness and grief as I have since lost my MM to his partner and I have to deal with my loss. I miss him terribly. I don't treat men any differently now, not at all. Not all men cheat and not all women cheat. But this experience has shown me how easy it is for it to occur. From this experience, I have learned not to get involved with a MM as it is just too painful. The times I spent with him were among the best times of my life and even so it sounds strange saying that as while he was with me, he was lying through his teeth to her. If he and I got together, would I truly be able to trust him after I saw first hand how easy it was for him to stray? I still love and have feelings for him, of course. I will have to deal with my broken heart and get over it in my own time. Perhaps I should post my story....
KnowHowLoveFeels Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 MOI, Perhaps due to the fact that I did not actually have intercourse with my MM, I don't carry a stigma with me. In fact, I am more attuned to how men pay attention to me now. Before this, I didn't think that I could be 'sexy' - you know, after 3 kids? Please, stop carrying the guilt and the stigma. You don't have to mention that your last relationship was with a MM. You can just say that it didn't work out as you'd like... blah, blah,blah. At least you are taking the high road now, and that's what matters! You also became stronger from the ordeal. (I did, too.)
Walking away Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 My situation is somewhat different because my past affair is obvious to anyone who knows me. I produced a child from it. But, that happened so long ago. I was a single mom with three daughters when the affair/divorce took place. I went to school and worked part time. I graduated summa cum laude at that university....straight A's. Looking back, I probably exceled so due to the fact that I felt I needed to prove to others that I wasn't a complete sh*t. I got back the respect of my family, ex-husband, ex-in laws, and friends, but it took alot of work on my part. I don't talk about my past affair to just anyone. It is private and I do not want others to judge me because of what I did 15 years ago. I was a different person then, and that is overwhelmingly what everyone I eventually tell says to me. It is true. Now, if I am interested in dating someone, I tell them the truth. That person has a right to know what my situation is. He has a right to choose to continue pursuit of me based on the truth of my life. I believe in complete honesty with someone who may potentially be a mate of mine. I would expect the same from him. Interestingly, when I have told other men who were interested in me about my past affair and subsequent child from it, NOT ONE elected to "pass" on dating me. So, to answer your question, I don't carry that stigma....I am what I am, and although I have made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes, I do not identify myself as the OW or a past OW. That is far too self-limiting to me. There is far more to me than that part of my life. ANd I refuse to beat myself up for something that has made me what I am today.
KnowHowLoveFeels Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 Walking Away said: "So, to answer your question, I don't carry that stigma....I am what I am, and although I have made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes, I do not identify myself as the OW or a past OW. That is far too self-limiting to me. There is far more to me than that part of my life. ANd I refuse to beat myself up for something that has made me what I am today." - Well said!
TeaCooler Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 Yes, people in my life know I was an OW, but that hasn't effected me at all. I don't go telling guys that I meet that I was an OW.. because that's only a part of my past, that's not who I am now. It will only effect you if you let it. absolutely. there is no requirement for you to be so open to anyone about being the other woman at any time--before, during, or after the relationship.
TeaCooler Posted February 24, 2006 Posted February 24, 2006 having an affair cannot be compared to things that are against the law. laws exist to protect the general public or a specific group of like people...the goverment doesn't have time to get involved in and settle affairs of the heart and personal relationships between adults. (though, some businesses and companyies apparently want to make cheating in the workplace a legitimate reason for termination...) i am not saying it's right at all, but good grief. cheating is considered the greatest sin because sex in involved; there are worse things to do to people, but the fact that sex is a component in an affair, for some people, overrides all reason and causes this outrage.
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