mopar crazy Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 I went to my brother and sil's last night. They got a letter in the mail about defending a friend of their's that is going through a D. I don't know all the details of it all. All I know is that they have children together. The W is having an A. She takes the children shopping w/ her and the OM and he buys them things all the time. This OM is not hid from the children and they do things together all the time. Now, H is going for full custody of the children b/c he feels his W is an unfit mother for what she is doing. This is screwed up! Sure, she is wrong for what she is doing, but if this mom is a great mom she shouldn't loose her children b/c of her infedilities. From what my brother said the H is a great father. As a mom I could never imagine loosing my children like this. I can see if she was an unfit mother. Just b/c she is making a bad choice by having an A doesn't make her a bad mother, does it? I think she is wrong, and she is wrong for involving the children in her A like the way she is, but does she really deserve to loose her children over this?
sami Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 That's up the court to decide based on facts not emotions. In general an affair is good enough of a cause for courts to take custody away from a mother particularly when she becomes open about it to her children.
MyDutyPaid Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 From what my brother said the H is a great father. Then why *shouldn't* he have full custody of the children and she get visitation rights and pay child support? The rights of fathers shouldn't always be second to those of mothers. She should have been responsible enough to know that this could cause trouble in the first place. There are usually consequences for our behaviour. but does she really deserve to loose her children over this? Does he?
Mz. Pixie Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 I went to my brother and sil's last night. They got a letter in the mail about defending a friend of their's that is going through a D. I don't know all the details of it all. All I know is that they have children together. The W is having an A. She takes the children shopping w/ her and the OM and he buys them things all the time. This OM is not hid from the children and they do things together all the time. Now, H is going for full custody of the children b/c he feels his W is an unfit mother for what she is doing. This is screwed up! Sure, she is wrong for what she is doing, but if this mom is a great mom she shouldn't loose her children b/c of her infedilities. From what my brother said the H is a great father. As a mom I could never imagine loosing my children like this. I can see if she was an unfit mother. Just b/c she is making a bad choice by having an A doesn't make her a bad mother, does it? I think she is wrong, and she is wrong for involving the children in her A like the way she is, but does she really deserve to loose her children over this? Well, she was totally wrong for involving her OM with her children. That turns my stomach. And, I had an affair! Just because she's cheated, however, IMO doesn't make her a bad mother. At the height of my A- which was really only a one time thing- I was still a good mother. I guess it depends on alot of stuff. Is she doing things with the OM in front of the kids? Is she leaving them alone or with other people lots of times to be with OM?? Is the OM taking time away from the kids?? None of those things applied in my situation so it's hard for me to say. I think it's the first thing that a BS wants to do- take away custody from the other parent- as something to punish the cheating spouse. That is the first thing they can think to do of to punish the other person for cheating. However, it only punishes the children. In my case, my ex was a good dad- when he was home. I raised those kids a good majority of the time by myself, by his own admission. So, it would have been a little hard for him to obtain full custody. The courts usually don't care who you're screwing- as long as the kids are not being abused or neglected or exposed to sexual things they shouldn't be. Who has been the primary parent up until now?? Who has taken them to dr's appts?? Who has sat up with them when they were sick? If the answer to all of these question is the mom, then she shouldn't lose custody just because she had an affair. And in reality, she probably won't. The guy is spending alot of time and money doing this and it probably won't happen.
EnigmaXOXO Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 My sister lost custody of her two sons because of an affair. Depending on the circumstances, it shows a lack of responsibility and good judgment. As a matter of fact, the court has ordered her to pay child support. Meanwhile, the boys remain in their primary home with their father and his new wife. The courts prefer that children not be uprooted from their familiar environment (where possible) so as not to cause them additional stress and trauma. There was a time when the courts usually sided with the mother, no matter what. But as infidelity increases among the female population as well… the law is beginning to judge these custody cases more fairly. Times, they are a changin'! It's my personal opinion that GOOD fathers have every right to be granted custody of their children if proven more financially and emotionally stable and better suited for parenting. So long as they're not fighting for custody simply out of spite or "payback."
Chump64 Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 I find it hard to believe that adultery can = unfit parenting and that it can affect custody, because I know several women who divorced their spouses due to domestic abuse. Yet the fact that they beat their wives did not stop the courts from giving the fathers 50 percent custody. Unless there is some sort of neglect or abuse of the children that was somehow related to the affair, I don't see how it could be a factor.
tanbark813 Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 Unless there is some sort of neglect or abuse of the children that was somehow related to the affair, I don't see how it could be a factor. I wouldn't call it neglect or abuse, but I think bringing the OM around the children will have a damaging impact. The mom is basically teaching her children that infidelity is okay. If the husband is staying true to his wedding vows and the wife is not, then the husband most definitely deserves custody.
Chump64 Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 I don't disagree with you Tanbark, but I don't think courts routinely make those kinds of judgments. At least not in "no fault" states. In general, it is d*mn hard to get custody away from a parent unless there is some sort of blatant violation or a criminal record that shows the kids are in jeopardy with that parent.
EnigmaXOXO Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 Some factors which are considered: 1. Did the wife leave her husband and marital residence to be with her lover before a legal separation agreement was in place. (Abandonment) 2. Did she remove her children from their stable home environment (and father) because she was fearful of their safety… or did she displace them for her own selfish reasons. (The courts don't like to see children dragged about like suitcases). 3. Or… did she also abandon her children for a period of time while she pursued her outside relationship. (Neglect) Numbers two (2) and (3) are a catch twenty-two, of sorts. Depends on the circumstances surrounding the wife's actions which ultimately decides the outcome of the courts judgment. Unfortunately, "I left my husband and took our children to be with another man" still does not bode well with the court system as a justified reason to penalize the father unless they can prove him unfit. Again, the courts will always rule in favor of what's best for the children. Whoever has the better attorney (or can present a stronger case) will get "custodianship" of the children. (Thus, providing character witnesses to testify in your behalf.) And "custodianship" should not be confused with full or joint custody. Even if the courts rule that the children are better off remaining in their primary home with their father, it doesn't mean that the mother won't be given joint custody, substantial visitation, and certain parental rights. So long as she pays her child support. In general, it is d*mn hard to get custody away from a parent unless there is some sort of blatant violation or a criminal record that shows the kids are in jeopardy with that parent. Yep. And fathers are parents, too.
MyDutyPaid Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 At least not in "no fault" states. If they come to agreement then they don't have to have it settled in family court at all. I think you'll find that marriages with property and children will almost always end up in the hands of lawyers. Even when both parties know exactly what they want to do.
Author mopar crazy Posted February 18, 2006 Author Posted February 18, 2006 Then why *shouldn't* he have full custody of the children and she get visitation rights and pay child support? The rights of fathers shouldn't always be second to those of mothers. She should have been responsible enough to know that this could cause trouble in the first place. There are usually consequences for our behaviour. Does he? While I agree w/ most of what was said I do believe that a parent can look like a great parent in front of others but behind closed doors they are abusing their children. Sad, but it happens. I'm not saying this guy is this way, I'm just saying just b/c he looks like a good father in the public eye doesn't mean he is a good father.
Curmudgeon Posted February 18, 2006 Posted February 18, 2006 on that basis, why shouldn't the father get custody? Or asked another way, why should he lose custody just because the mother wants to stray? What give her the absolute right to the children. She's the one who's broken the family unit, not him, and she's involved the children in the process. Children learn what they live. What a wonderful lesson she's teaching them that they'll take into their own, future relationships.
SoleMate Posted February 18, 2006 Posted February 18, 2006 In general an affair is good enough of a cause for courts to take custody away from a mother particularly when she becomes open about it to her children... Maybe that's true in Turkmenistan, but here in the US, specifically California, infidelity is not a basis for a custody decision. The only POSSIBLE way for the mother's r/s with the OM to come into play would be if he could be shown to be a danger to the children - like a child molester. We had a father post about his STBXW living with a convicted child molester. That would get the court's attention real quick. The fact that her behavior is ill-advised, or that the H is really angry and sad about the A and the divorce, do not justify the awesome step of relieving a fit mother of the custody of her children. I hope the H slows down and asks himself if the kids would really be as happy to give Mommy the deep 6 as he clearly is.
Devildog Posted February 18, 2006 Posted February 18, 2006 I would have to say that her decision to bring the children around the OM, having the OM basically trying to play "Daddy" to the children by buying them gifts and be around them all the time would not sit well with me. First you got the fact that she is teaching these children that infidelity is not only okay, but hey, it has it's rewards! So remember kids, when you grow up, get married and have kids of your own, have an affair! Then your kids will get all kinds of new toys from the person you are banging on the side! It also shows bad judgement on the part of the parent having the affair because how many affairs go on to be lifelong relationships? Very few, that's how many! You have a better chance of winning the lottery than of building a good, lifelong relationship on a foundation of lies and deceit.* So now this woman is introducing her children to the first of many on the merry-go-round of "uncles, mommy's friends" or whatever she calls them. You don't make a person a regular part of your child's life unless there is a high probability that they are going to be around for a good long time. All this does is cause the children more un-needed pain and sorrow. And finally, and the biggest gripe I have in this situation, THESE KIDS HAVE A FATHER! And for the mother to basically be encouraging the guy she is screwing on the side, the guy she is tearing her kids world apart for, to supplant the biological father is just plain disgusting. If she is going to encourage the relegating of the biological father to footnote status in these children's lives, then I think the father is more than justified in doing everything possible to ensure he keeps his rightful place as the father. And I would bet that when the father, the betrayed spouse, finally moves on and finds someone new, and finally brings this new woman around the kids, the mother will be screaming in fury over how he could bring a new woman into these kids lives, and she will scream the loudest that the new woman "is not their mother". *odds of winning the lottery 1 in 28,989,675, odds of relationships built on deceit have not been calculated. Results may vary. Residents of NJ not eligible.
Guest Posted February 18, 2006 Posted February 18, 2006 First you got the fact that she is teaching these children that infidelity is not only okay, but hey, it has it's rewards! So remember kids, when you grow up, get married and have kids of your own, have an affair! Then your kids will get all kinds of new toys from the person you are banging on the side! I agree with you. I bet you're not from Turkmenistan.
Chump64 Posted February 18, 2006 Posted February 18, 2006 Hold on. I don't think anyone here is defending the affair partner. You can look at this from an emotional or moral position, then from a legal position. Yes, adultery is also illegal, but most people aren't charged with it, and even if they were, the courts usually don't even consider things like domestic abuse charges (against a spouse) when granting child custody. Curmudgeon, I'm not saying the mother should have full custody. I'm saying the court probably cannot solid find a legal reason NOT to split custody 50 / 50. That is a pretty routine custody split in most cases, at least in my experience.
Guest Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 Let's turn this around and see what people think. Lets say the Husband was having an affair and cheating on his wife. Lets say he was taking the children out with the other woman and she was buying them gifts. Should he then get custody of the kids and have his wife that was faithful lose her children?? Should his wife then have to pay him child support also?? People would say that is crazy but if it happens to a man well I guess he is suppose to just sit back and take it. In the above scenario most people would say the wife should get custody child support and probably alimony. Now look at this case. The wife goes out and sleeps with another man and tries to replace the childrens father. Now I am sure this was a man that supported his wife financially and now his wife tries to replace him. I am sure she wants her new man the children child support and wants to replace her husband that paid for these children. And I can state for certain she was not a good mother during this time? How do I know this? Well take any person that reads this post and lets say you love your children. The worst thing you can do for your children is to bring a new man or woman into their lives to replace the childrens mother or father. If she wants to go screw a new man then let her. I know that the spouse that does not go find another deserves the children since they are not putting their lust 1st. She should pay support and she can still see the kids but her flaunting of her new man to the kids is disgusting. I saw my own mother do this and no she was not a good mother. She cheated on my dad and wanted custody child support and alimony from my dad. All of us kids picked our dad and were willing to stand up in court for our father, he was a good man that did not deserve this.
Chump64 Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 In a cheating situation where a divorce occurs, unless a parent has put the children in jeopardy, and regardless of the cheater's gender, I think the courts are going to do a 50/50 custody split. I am pretty sure that a court of law would not consider infidelity to be neglectful / harmful to a child. I may disagree and you may disagree, but that's the way things tend to shake out, legally. You have to screw up pretty big to lose complete custody of your kids. By that I mean, you have to be arrested for something like abuse or neglect (of the kids, not the marriage). I'm not arguing that infidelity is acceptable, when it comes to kids. I'm saying that the courts rarely take a stand on infidelity, with regard to custody issues.
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