I'm afraid that if I call her it will only push her further away

[Xillr8ng]

Divorcing bcuz she doesnt love me after 12 years.She moved out 5 months ago.NC 1 month since we hired attorneys...I ran into her where she was getting car fixed.We hadnt seen each other in three months.Idle chat with others around and I got up to leave and she approached me and said if I would take her home to see our cats.I said absolutely and we went.I showed her how to use a new digital camera and she spent the hour taking pictures of the cats and asked for me to email them to her.Anyway I took her back to her car and we parted ways with a hug.Minutes later she called me on the cell and asked me to go to lunch.We met and had a great time and finished with a hug and said goodbye.We did not mention anything about us or the circumstances at hand.My question to you all is what to do next?Is the next move mine?I'm afraid that if I call her it will only push her further away.And if I ignore responding,am I telling her that her efforts were not all that important to me.I still love her.

[Becoming]

Why can't men just be honest about their feelings instead of playing the power games I see advised on here all the time? Not saying you are, but . . .

 

What is it YOU really want? You want her with a minimal amount of exposure of your vulnerability that may open you up to pain again, is that it? Lotsa luck with that one. Love requires emotional vulnerability, which means risk of pain. Are you afraid you'll die from the pain of possible rejection and thus keep your heart so sheltered you ensure it? (Speaking from way too much experience here! )

 

JUST BE HONEST ABOUT YOUR REAL FEELINGS: I'd like to see you again, but I'm confused about what that might mean. I'm scared of opening myself up to being hurt again because {it nearly killed me last time . . . or whatever.} Can you help me understand what it is you want and what this invitation means for us so I can decide whether or not I want that?

 

Didn't mean to be hard on you. Good for you for asking for help!

[Xillr8ng]

My question to you all is what to do next?Is the next move mine?

[Becoming]

If you need information about the relationship and where it is and don't want it to just be defined by her, then call her to ask her.

 

Love's not a chess game.

 

Ask her how to read your lunch. Is this an overture toward friendship or the possibility of trying again, or what?

 

That's all I'm saying.

[Xillr8ng]

It seems that divorce is a chess game... no kidding.. I just don't want to push her any further away. My next move could be my last move.And if its better that I don't move at all ,so be it. I was just kinda gettin a few sudjestions from outside sources that's all.

[cygny]

if she is divorcing because she says she doesn't love you..i agree with your caution.

 

maybe you could ask her to a non-date-like thing--another lunch, or an afternoon at the zoo, or something relaxing at your home. no pressure, let her make the move regarding feelings, you just provide the opportunity. she'll take it if she wants it.

[Becoming]

I apologize, xihil. It sounds like you've been through a lot, and I didn't mean to minimize that. Sorry.

[Xillr8ng]

No problem becoming...I appreciate any input at this point...Ya know I was very close to just giving up any hope at all and just getting ready to hold my chin up for her lawyer to start punching.I was absolutely SHOCKED when she asked me to lunch..I keep thinking was I supposed to say something or act a certain way or bring up a certain topic but I kept my cool and I left with the feeling of relief....for now...and that is why I'm asking for help.........CYGNY,I think that you have a great point about letting her do the feelings part and me with the opportunity.I emailed her the pictures she took of the cats while she was here.I think it's too soon to be asking her for lunch or dinner..I think maybe I should just let yesterday sink in maybe over the weekend or such.

[cygny]

yeah--maybe next week this time--maybe ask her if she wants to come see the cats again or tell her they've been asking for her and bugging you and they won't leave you alone lol--keep it lighthearted, make her laugh--then if she feels like it you can just mosey to lunch or dinner together--not make it seem like you're pursuing her or pressuring her

[Xillr8ng]

She would love the cat joke...We always talk like that....I've been coming here for months watching others get counsel and have heard all the nightmares of doing wrong or angry things or doing something that was completely just at the wrong time...I do not want to pressure her or chase her .And I think I have at least gotten the idea that any little miscalculation could destroy this fragile twing of hope for our marraige.It doesnt feel right not pouring out my feelings but I understand that all of you Veterans have made that mistake or have seen someone else make the mistake...It's kinda like "oh my God,you said you loved her????Bad move."It's like doing the opposite to get what you want...It seems backwards ,yes?

[Xillr8ng]

you know it seems that LS is only for those with extreme cases or those that are popular posters...why did I even try.

[cygny]

not sure what you meant by that last comment.

 

divorce is a rather extreme situation.

 

my belief is that people who haven fallen out of love do not appreciate the "emotional pressure" of someone pouring intense feelings out to them, it comes off as suffocating and clingy. so that's why let her make the move. we all have 'emotional space' and when things are undefined in terms of our feelings, we don't want that intruded upon...it can have the opposite effect to tell her how you really feel, i know that has been true several times in my own life, including my own divorce. i bet if you think back to girls who liked you and seemed clingy when you had no feelings, that would be true in your own case as well, yes?

 

but there are other people here who think that being upfront, honest and talking about your feelings to the other person is always best. i just haven't seen good results come from that in break-up situations, nor in early stages of a relationship. that seems to work best within a solid relationship where there are problems that need to be ironed out.

 

just my 2cents, feel free to ignore

[Xillr8ng]

Thank you very much.....that made more sense than anything I have been told so far...you are the best....the last post was a low spot on this rollercoaster and I am sorry.....up down up down..I respect your thoughts and appreciate your time.

[Xillr8ng]

Why is it we always get our expectations high even after telling ourselves we wont...ya know I was doing just fine and now crashing as if it were the first month...All over again with the emotions...I guess I read way too much into her asking me out to lunch and thinking that the good time we shared together might be a door opening.And now it seems back to NC for us both.No phone call from her ,nothing.Is she doing this on purpose to hurt me?Is she regretting leaving me?Is she just curious?Is she testing the waters to see how I'll react when another day goes by with no call?Everyone says act happy and I did .I just thought that she might be reaching out but again ,we get our expectations high only to crash.Back to the pitty party I go,with my heart bleeding again and my tears stream into another lonely night.Why ,oh why,did I agree to go to lunch?

[cygny]

no she's not doing this to hurt you. please don't beat yourself up any more.

 

i think she's probably torn. and trying to be true to her own feelings. she's not feeling it right now for you.

 

the best way for you to win her respect is to be strong and not join the pity party. even if you don't feel it, act it.

 

sorry you're hurting.

[Xillr8ng]

Your words are always very uplifting and I appreciate them.I will be strong and I will endure.From day one I have mantained the new me without letup.I gave up the booze and the booze buddies and the way I used to address things.I have yet to argue with her or even try to defend myself in any way.I have yet to yell,raise my voice, or blame ,or try to guilt her.I have not begged her to come back or asked what she is doing or who she might be with.I have yet to drive by where she is or snoop.Her clothes and things are still where she left them as I did not toss them or box them and drop them off.(Old Markie would have done ALL those things).I have told her I would leave our house while she came over if she wanted to get anything.She hasnt even tried.I made up my mind in a nano second,when she left, that I was never going back to being that kind of person and I know that she can see these changes.But like most here,I think my effort was too late...and it hurts....But thnx for the encouragement and I will do my best to maintain the strength.

[Becoming]

Ah, xhil, it hurts to see you in such pain. I'm gonna read your other posts to remind myself of your story in order to be of more help, ok?

 

Later . . .

[Becoming]

Ok. I have read all your available threads, xill. Here's what I see, for what it's worth. Take what's good, toss the out of line.

 

You're a good man, one who's been hurt terribly. Of course, you didn't always behave like a good man, which you freely admit. But you have changed. Sober, drinking buddies kicked to curb.

 

You're more compassionate than the first post I read with you self-righteously tossing out scripture. You seem like a "just-the-facts" kinda guy who may be a little confused by the deep emotional/spiritual stuff signified by the letter of the law, though. Doing the right thing may be more important than loving, which is the right thing beyond all the law we want to hide behind in order to stay safe and righteous. It's all about grace and the righteousness of Christ, not us and our attempts to earn our way in. I say this because, as a sister in Christ, I care about your pain and about your marriage. But it seems like you want to earn your way into your wife's heart by doing all the right things, when in fact, the right thing is just to love by being honest about what's going on with you even though it's painful. More on this later.

 

Though you have been hurt, you continue to love. This indicates an amazing strength most people don't have.

 

There are times, though, when you want to wall yourself off from the possibility of loving again because it just hurts too much. I'm sorry. This is understandable, but I hope you don't do this because it just brings more pain in the long run. Stay in the pain of this crucifixion and resurrection will happen. Honest. Maybe not with current wife, but in the future.

 

I think in mid-Dec. when she called in the middle of the day and talked for 3 hours that she was fishing to see if it was possible to get back together. She called that time. It was your turn to call next. And you didn't. I think all the NC advice you've received may have failed you at that time. Then you go and file for divorce, so . . . what's a girl to think?

 

I say all this without knowing at all anything that transpires b/t you two. But I wonder how honest you are about your real feelings with her? You have to say things more than once for some people to believe them; you can't just assume that she knows you'd take her back just b/c you said so 5 mths. ago or whatever. Some of us are really dense and have to be told over and over. Others, as others on LS indicate, would find that annoying. You can do it without being doormatty and annoying. Your gentle strength that she is seeing could do that. But don't go out of your way to pay for something that's not in your agreement without telling her first. She doesn't know what your actions mean unless you tell her. And you didn't.

 

It seems like you sit back and wait for her to take all the initiative in this relationship, have her tell you what's going on, etc., call, make dates. She needs to know what's going on from your perspective in order to make decisions about the marriage. Is she telling you to back off, she doesn't want to hear it, etc.? Or is she just telling you nothing? She may be waiting for you to indicate you want her. Some women really like to be desired and chased, not taken care by having someone pay the car repair bill. Have you checked out http://www.marriagebuilders.com and done an emotional needs inventory together? Have her take one, you take one, then make a lunch date to share and compare. I think you may be astonished, and that may be what happened to the marriage (along with the drinking, etc.) You will have to initiate such a date.

 

You keep choosing to deal with her from a distance, waiting for her to call, through lawyers, etc. I'd be willing to bet (and I'm not a gambling woman), that she wanted YOU, the emotional you, the vulnerable you, the one that hurts and loves and cares. Is she seeing that from you or just this wall of distant, cold, factual strength? Show her the you who's inside--the messed up, confusing, loving, tender you who just wants her for who she is. Remember?: "when I am weak, then I am strong. Not my strength, but God's through my weakness." Seems like you're trying to do this all on your strength alone, but God's new-life power only works through our vulnerability.

 

Call her and initiate an honest conversation, staying open to her despite the pain just as Jesus cried for mercy on those who were torturing him. Out of the midst of that difficult, open abjectly vulnerable love is born new life for all.

 

That doesn't mean letting her walk all over you. Jesus was crucified because he stood up against those who were oppressing the vulnerable ones, and you have to take some care of yourself when she oppresses (not just hurts, but oppresses--there's a difference).

 

Please forgive the trespasses of what I've said here. And keep us posted, ok? You haven't always been responded to by LS as you needed to be with the NC and divorce thread, and it's a pity.

 

Blessings, xill.

[Xillr8ng]

""I think in mid-Dec. when she called in the middle of the day and talked for 3 hours that she was fishing to see if it was possible to get back together. She called that time. It was your turn to call next. And you didn't. I think all the NC advice you've received may have failed you at that time. Then you go and file for divorce, so . . . what's a girl to think? ""

 

 

Yeah I missed that one:confused:

 

""She doesn't know what your actions mean unless you tell her. And you didn't.""

 

uh ....no I didnt

 

""It seems like you sit back and wait for her to take all the initiative in this relationship, have her tell you what's going on, etc., call, make dates. She needs to know what's going on from your perspective in order to make decisions about the marriage. Is she telling you to back off, she doesn't want to hear it, etc.? Or is she just telling you nothing? ""

 

Nothing at all...silence since the beginging when she left.

 

""she wanted YOU, the emotional you, the vulnerable you, the one that hurts and loves and cares. Is she seeing that from you or just this wall of distant, cold, factual strength? Show her the you who's inside--the messed up, confusing, loving, tender you who just wants her for who she is. ""

 

I cried throughout my a$$ reaming from her and did nothing but agree and apologize.

 

I thank you dearly for your time and your research on this matter ,you are very close in everything you said.Anyway I have not heard from her yet.I sent more pictures of the cats by email.And I sent a card that said "thank you for always finding something nice to do" and I just wrote (lunch was great ,thank you. Mark).I still think that chasing her at this time might be pushing her further away...I keep reading on LS that chasing doesnt work.I'm confused...

[cygny]

hi i went back and read your threads too.

 

have you ever sat down with her and bared your soul and told her how much you love her and that you'd be willing to do anything to make this work?

 

you offered Marriage counselling i see but wasn't that through a lawyer? what led up to the split? were you fighting all the time? is she emotionally drained from all that?

 

also is she still seeing the other guy?

[Becoming]

""I think in mid-Dec. when she called in the middle of the day and talked for 3 hours that she was fishing to see if it was possible to get back together. She called that time. It was your turn to call next. And you didn't. I think all the NC advice you've received may have failed you at that time. Then you go and file for divorce, so . . . what's a girl to think? ""

 

 

Yeah I missed that one:confused:

 

""She doesn't know what your actions mean unless you tell her. And you didn't.""

 

uh ....no I didnt

 

""It seems like you sit back and wait for her to take all the initiative in this relationship, have her tell you what's going on, etc., call, make dates. She needs to know what's going on from your perspective in order to make decisions about the marriage. Is she telling you to back off, she doesn't want to hear it, etc.? Or is she just telling you nothing? ""

 

Nothing at all...silence since the beginging when she left.

 

""she wanted YOU, the emotional you, the vulnerable you, the one that hurts and loves and cares. Is she seeing that from you or just this wall of distant, cold, factual strength? Show her the you who's inside--the messed up, confusing, loving, tender you who just wants her for who she is. ""

 

I cried throughout my a$$ reaming from her and did nothing but agree and apologize.

 

I thank you dearly for your time and your research on this matter ,you are very close in everything you said.Anyway I have not heard from her yet.I sent more pictures of the cats by email.And I sent a card that said "thank you for always finding something nice to do" and I just wrote (lunch was great ,thank you. Mark).I still think that chasing her at this time might be pushing her further away...I keep reading on LS that chasing doesnt work.I'm confused...

 

Notice, though, that you didn't initiate a date with her. This is a good start. And forget LS advice. Only you know what's right with YOUR relationship. You can't do a marriage by proxy from some anonymous folks who don't know your situation. Honestly, where has NC gotten you?

 

You cried, yes. But she probably couldn't hear what you said for being upset by all your pain. If my H had done what you did when our marriage fell apart due to neglect on his part, I wouldn't be married today, I can tell you that. As is, I speak from a long decent marriage. He came to move his things out (long story--EA on his part, I threw him out) but then on his way out, he stopped and said, "Why am I doing this? I don't want to move. I want you. I want us. And I'll do whatever it takes to make this a marriage that works for both of us, not just me. Give me another chance even though I don't deserve it. Just tell me what I can do to make this right." And then he took me in his arms and seeing I didn't push him away, he kissed me like there was no tomorrow. I KNEW it was for real, and she will, too.

 

But you have to be the one to make this happen. She's waiting for this. That's why the papers haven't been signed. Don't wait for Valentines Day--too expected. Call now. Go get your wife, man! Quit protecting your heart so much until you know for sure she doesn't want you.

[Xillr8ng]

Bared my soul ,no....But I have expressed my love in the begining of all this...She left because every once in a while I would get drunk and do the"I want a divorce "speech.She had expressed that she felt trapped ..that she had nowhere else to go to.I was isolating and ignoring her because of the booze.She told her lawyer that she was considering MC but it has been two weeks no answer.How am I to take that?She seems to still be proceeding without letup.I don't know if there is another man.She says no but freinds on her side say when I ask about another person they say they dont want to say and to ask my wife and always finish with"Mark you just need to move on".so....That is why I filed...She has never asked for a divorce but she won't back down now it seems.We have NOT fought at all since she left...nadda...We never really fought alot anyway.It was only when I tied on a good drunk and would get pissy...Oh and she always said that I liked skinnier women and smaller boobs and such.She was sure I didn't find her attractive and I did withhold having sex most of the time,which did not help matters.( I was addicted to porn bigtime)another item that I gave up completely...and expressed to her after she left that it was an addiction and that I was sorry.I have bared my soul i guess in admitting these serious faults and my determination to extinguish them for good.YES....She was emotionally drained....You hit that nail on the head...She said she went NUMB a month before she left...It was after a great fight where I bared my ass saying very hurtfull things.

 

Becoming...thank you ..I have written letters in the begining that stated my hope to save this marraige and that I hoped she would give me another chance...Nothing but silence from her...no response.

[cygny]

[/b]

He came to move his things out (long story--EA on his part, I threw him out) but then on his way out, he stopped and said, "Why am I doing this? I don't want to move. I want you. I want us. And I'll do whatever it takes to make this a marriage that works for both of us, not just me. Give me another chance even though I don't deserve it. Just tell me what I can do to make this right." And then he took me in his arms and seeing I didn't push him away, he kissed me like there was no tomorrow. I KNEW it was for real, and she will, too.

 

But you have to be the one to make this happen. She's waiting for this. That's why the papers haven't been signed. Don't wait for Valentines Day--too expected. Call now. Go get your wife, man! Quit protecting your heart so much until you know for sure she doesn't want you.

 

 

well, i think this is worth a shot.

 

do it like this, in person, and put your heart and soul into it. BARE your soul. don't hold back unless she's very clearly having none of it.

 

and good luck

 

(thanks, becoming, too!)

 

(and be very very sure you don't let her down this time or you won't get another chance!) no porn, no booze, no nastiness. no withholding sex, get marriage counselling, tell her how beautiful she is and never let her catch you looking at other women. this should all be in the husband's manual, lol.

[Xillr8ng]

Thank you Cyg and becoming....I realize that I have sown for a long time and now I am reaping it.Like I said I was past the hurt stage and the tears and had my chin up ready for the Big D,a D that still conitinues.I was caught off gaurd with her invitation to lunch.I still don't know what to make of it.With this being the third day with no call from her I can only surmize that I must've missed something that I was supposed to do or say and I missed it again,like most men do.I thought I was doing the right thing by not bringing up anything that might jeopardize or harm our precious time together that day.To be honest,I am ready to just drink.I;ll sober up after the dust settles....LOL kidding of course... Thank you all again for listening to a winey victim of his own mistakes. W/love Mark;)

[cygny]

don't expect her to call you. i don't know whether she is willing to give you another chance or not but i do know that from what you've posted, she has no reason to let you back into her life unless you show her that you've changed and want her back more than anything in the world. you need to cross the space between you.