Woggle Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 When I talk with people such as my coworkers they all seem to parrot whatever they heard in Dr Phil, Oprah, Conservative talk radio or whatever outlet. It's like nobody thinks for themselves anymore. We need to be told how to think and I think that is why society is so fu-ked up right now. People are programmed. We are told how to dress, what movies to like, what music to listen to and what to eat. Society is training us and we don't even know it. Very few can break the mold and think for themselves.
newbby Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 THINKING for yourself is an illusion. people only ever think what data has been programmed into their brains. okay, so i am also speaking from borrowed wisdom, but with an understanding i have also reached intuitively. i think you are correct though, that in an increasingly mind dominated world, conditioning is having far more of an effect, because how can anybody be in peace long enough to grasp any spiritual understanding, or to understand from a place outside of their conditioned minds?
lindya Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 THINKING for yourself is an illusion. people only ever think what data has been programmed into their brains. ? If that were the case, there wouldn't be any data to programme into people's brains.
Author Woggle Posted February 6, 2006 Author Posted February 6, 2006 THINKING for yourself is an illusion. people only ever think what data has been programmed into their brains. okay, so i am also speaking from borrowed wisdom, but with an understanding i have also reached intuitively. i think you are correct though, that in an increasingly mind dominated world, conditioning is having far more of an effect, because how can anybody be in peace long enough to grasp any spiritual understanding, or to understand from a place outside of their conditioned minds? This is somewhat true but people are thinking what they have been told what to think. Nobody has a sense of adventure or imagination anymore. The more I look around the more I am seeing programmed robots and zombies. I now see perfectly how somebody like Bush can get elected. People are just zombies.
newbby Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 If that were the case, there wouldn't be any data to programme into people's brains. animal instinct firstly, so natural impulses like eating, mating etc, and then MEMORY of this. evolving over time... even imagination is based on things we already know, or have memory of.
newbby Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 This is somewhat true but people are thinking what they have been told what to think. Nobody has a sense of adventure or imagination anymore. The more I look around the more I am seeing programmed robots and zombies. I now see perfectly how somebody like Bush can get elected. People are just zombies. i'm not sure if theres any difference to what i said. people are living more through their minds now, theres not even enough time to be still enough for inspiration, intuition, or any other understanding... maybe there is a certain laziness aswell? i dont see alot of difference though, look how many people went off to fight in the first and second world wars believing they were doing a great heroic deed. that was also programming.
lindya Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 animal instinct firstly, so natural impulses like eating, mating etc, and then MEMORY of this. evolving over time... even imagination is based on things we already know, or have memory of. But if a person uses existing data to create new data, then there has to be an element of creating a pattern of thought that nobody has applied before. The inventor thinks laterally or creatively, and makes a discovery through doing so. The discovery itself isn't original. It's existing data...but surely the process of thought by which he made that discovery must be original...otherwise someone would have discovered it before him? I haven't had any coffee yet, and I've got a pile of work I should be doing...instead of trying to play at being a philosopher. Woggle, would you mind if I neg repped you for this?
Author Woggle Posted February 6, 2006 Author Posted February 6, 2006 But if a person uses existing data to create new data, then there has to be an element of creating a pattern of thought that nobody has applied before. The inventor thinks laterally or creatively, and makes a discovery through doing so. The discovery itself isn't original. It's existing data...but surely the process of thought by which he made that discovery must be original...otherwise someone would have discovered it before him? I haven't had any coffee yet, and I've got a pile of work I should be doing...instead of trying to play at being a philosopher. Woggle, would you mind if I neg repped you for this? Go ahead. A rep is a rep.
newbby Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 true! maybe the creative thought comes from another source than the mind? which is possibly why it seems there are less inspired people walking around, because everybody is in a hurry and thinking all the time. i havent had any coffee either! i can empathise.
lindya Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 I shan't neg rep you, Woggle...much as you deserve it Instead, I'm going to go and clear the fuzz out of my brain with a coffee. Thanks for the caffeine empathy, N.
d'Arthez Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 Actually, German-born (later US) philosopher Herbert Marcuse had a similar point of view. He expressed that in the well known "One Dimensional Man", more than 40 years ago. It is hard to see however, whether or not that analysis (still) holds, and if it does, how to change things.
lindya Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 Actually' date=' German-born (later US) philosopher Herbert Marcuse had a similar point of view. He expressed that in the well known "One Dimensional Man", more than 40 years ago. It is hard to see however, whether or not that analysis (still) holds, and if it does, how to change things.[/quote'] I had a quick google. I'm going to get a copy. Thanks d'A.
SmoochieFace Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 Very few can break the mold and think for themselves. I am one who has. I may have paid a great price for it but I would rather be my own person instead of *just another one of the guys*. Individuality seems to be quite an elusive concept these days. Excellent post, Wog.
newbby Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 I am one who has. in what way? i'm just interested.
SmoochieFace Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 in what way? i'm just interested. Many ways... by not watching those ridiculous *pundit* shows... by not just blindly supporting one party over another... by not following what's *in* or *out* when it comes to fashion or any other fads... by not doing things simply because *oh, that's what EVERYONE is doing*, etc. I just go against the grain when it comes to many things. No church. No cable teevee. No cell phone. No Blackberry. No credit cards (I do not trust the financial services industry at all). No investments. No *social circle*... although that has more to do with the Asperger's. No *need to have it all or to get ahead*. I have been told that I am a marketer's worst dream - I simply do not care for many things that are *cool* these days so it is almost impossible to market anything to me.
newbby Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 Many ways... by not watching those ridiculous *pundit* shows... by not just blindly supporting one party over another... by not following what's *in* or *out* when it comes to fashion or any other fads... by not doing things simply because *oh, that's what EVERYONE is doing*, etc. I just go against the grain when it comes to many things. yes, i see what you mean. i suppose i was talking of something different. probably you and woggle are speaking of the same things and i just got too deep. No church. No cable teevee. No cell phone. No Blackberry. No credit cards (I do not trust the financial services industry at all). No investments. No *social circle*... although that has more to do with the Asperger's. No *need to have it all or to get ahead*. me neither. maybe thats just due to financial reasons though! I have been told that I am a marketer's worst dream - I simply do not care for many things that are *cool* these days so it is almost impossible to market anything to me. lol.
SmoochieFace Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 maybe thats just due to financial reasons though! Not for me. I choose to not have/do those things.
blind_otter Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 I just go against the grain when it comes to many things. No church. No cable teevee. No cell phone. No Blackberry. No credit cards (I do not trust the financial services industry at all). No investments. No *social circle*... although that has more to do with the Asperger's. No *need to have it all or to get ahead*. I have been told that I am a marketer's worst dream - I simply do not care for many things that are *cool* these days so it is almost impossible to market anything to me. No offense, but you just describe most pot heads. Hahaha. I don't go to church, haven't had cable in 3+ years. No cell. No blackberry. No credit cards (my exH ruined my credit). No investments (again, much love to the exH... No social circle because previous friends were all cokeheads. This is the issue, IMO. The number of individualists has probably declined only marginally, but what we project socially has probably altered a bit more. Our society demands automatons. Our schools are structured to squash independent thought. We MAKE our society this way with our implicit agreement with the current strucutre of the public school system. Hasn't anyone here read John Taylor Gatto?
newbby Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 Not for me. I choose to not have/do those things. but why do you choose it? the financial thing was a half joke. i dont like tv in the house because it depresses me. i dont go to church because im not a christian. i dont socialise much because i like to meditate in my free time..etc...
SmoochieFace Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 No offense, but you just describe most pot heads. Hahaha. I should add *no drugs* too. The point is that I *choose* to not have those things... and it has nothing to do with lack of money. Perhaps that is why I have a decent piece of change left over from each paycheck after paying the rent.
lindya Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 I just go against the grain when it comes to many things. I admire people who try very hard to work out their own path through life, and it's not easy to stand up and say what you believe when it differs from the majority's stance. I would say, though, that many people are placed in the position where they feel they have to do that at some point. I've seen lots of people on this board come into a thread and present a new angle or a viewpoint that differs from the majority if it's an issue they feel strongly about - or they see potential for an interesting debate. I don't hear all of them making a song and dance about how individualistic they are. There's such a thing as recognising that other people have certain qualities, and giving them credit for those qualities - rather than always just claiming the credit for yourself. To borrow a phrase from Blind Otter, I'm just sayin'...
SmoochieFace Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 but why do you choose it? I do not believe in doing things simply because other people do them. I sit here and here people yack about how much their house is worth... blah blah blah ...where they are going for vacation and how much money they're gonna blow... blah blah blah ...how much their new plasma teevee costs blah blah ...how they're gonna go shopping and buy this or that... blah. Who *beep* cares! I don't and I think it's funny that there are people who think I would care or that I should care. LOL...
newbby Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 I do not believe in doing things simply because other people do them. just for the sake of argument, you could still be "conditioned" to believe that you are different.
a4a Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 I do not believe in doing things simply because other people do them. I sit here and here people yack about how much their house is worth... blah blah blah ...where they are going for vacation and how much money they're gonna blow... blah blah blah ...how much their new plasma teevee costs blah blah ...how they're gonna go shopping and buy this or that... blah. Who *beep* cares! I don't and I think it's funny that there are people who think I would care or that I should care. LOL... SF you did post that you have CD collection that would put most radio stations to shame....... I could care less about your cd collection. see how that works? a4a
SmoochieFace Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 just for the sake of argument, you could still be "conditioned" to believe that you are different. Being *different* in some ways isn't a bad thing to me.
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