Emotional coldness

[Becoming]

I am married to a wonderful man who's my best friend, good father, loves me, etc. Even the sex is good. So what's the problem? He is emotionally constipated. I get very little emotion from him at all.

 

I was emotionally abused and neglected as a child, so I probably found a respite from all the drama attractive at first. But after 25 years I'm getting in touch what that vulnerable part of myself and finding I can't really share it with him. I get no response, analysis, or argumentative defensiveness, and that just re-traumatizes me.

 

I quit trying to share this part of me after awhile--just like I did as a child. But I want that emotional intimacy I just can't seem to have with him. This is so bad I'm ready to throw it all away, 25 years, great house, stability for kids. There isn't anyone else, and I don't want anyone else. I want him. But it's like I may get past the drawbridge into his castle. I may get to sit at the dining room table. I'm occasionally invited to the antechamber, but never am I ushered into the bedroom of his inner life.

 

He's not depressed. He can talk to others at great length about the inner life, but as far as sharing HIS with me? Nothing.

 

I have done everything I know to do and still . . . nothing. He simply cannot respond to me with any tender emotions. Anger, yes. Defensiveness, yes. But if I say I need to have my emotions heard, honest to God he says, "Hear what? I hear you."

 

I just want to have all of me welcomed and accepted in this relationship, not just the rational, fun, sexy me, but also the hurt, scared, and vulnerable me. And he simply does not respond to that part of me or let me see that part of him.

 

I'm at a complete loss. Any advice welcome.

[witabix]

But it's like I may get past the drawbridge into his castle. I may get to sit at the dining room table. I'm occasionally invited to the antechamber, but never am I ushered into the bedroom of his inner life.

 

I smiled when I saw that line, about the castle, because that is exactly how I view myself.

 

I doubt if that helps though.

 

Here's why I feel like that.

 

My upbringing was quiet. We were poor, my parents worked to buy my grandparents house off of them back home. My Dad was distant. I lived through my childhood as the quiet one. Listening but not saying much.

 

Sent home all the time to my grandparents house. Where I played under the sideboard and was doted on by my aunts. Bless 'em.

 

I learned to live in my head, reading and playing alone a lot of the time.

 

I made the castle to keep me safe. I lived in it for a long time, alone.

 

Never invited anyone in. Kept the drawbridge up, and fired metaphorical arrows at anyone who got too close.

 

I got married whilst still keeping the castle in sight. Retreating there when I needed shelter.

 

Each time I have let someone in they have broken something, some of them even tried to set it on fire and burn it down on me. I learned as time went on that keeping people outside made them eventually go away, it can be cold out there.

 

I don't know what made me open up initially, I think it happened at a moment of extreme stress. I realised that although it was safe it was also insulating me from the warmth of another soul.

 

You really need the warmth of another when life gets cold. You describe the house/car/kids thing exactly as I would have. While that was good and all the material things were on the up I had no need to come out or let anyone in. I was a success, so to speak, in the material world. That was my identity.

 

When all that crashed down around me I had to re-identify myself. I chose to have an open day at the castle, and start to invite people in. Some did pooh in the corner, but the response I got from others, mainly women I have to say, was so positive that now I only sit in my castle when I am alone.

 

I don't mean to imply that the only way into the castle is to storm it, perhaps steal in quietly, in the shadows of the night. Slowly over time.

 

I do know what you are on about from the other side.

 

If I were to talk with your husband I would say to him that he is making a grave mistake, mainly for his own life, his own fullfilment, it is lonely in there sometimes.

 

Take the drawbridge down and throw it away, be vulnerable, its scary but so worth it.

 

Let people wander in and have a look arund your life. There is nothing to lose. Only to gain.

 

I have no idea if this post is worth a pile of beans or not too you.

 

The ramblings of man sitting in a castle with no drawbridge I suppose.

[blind_otter]

I hear you, B. I wish I could offer more than my understanding and empathy. I hope someone has an answer.

[blind_otter]

Well why the hell did I get a negative rep. point for this ^ post?

 

f***ing great. weenie.

[Becoming]

Thanks, W and BOt.

 

BOt, you made me laugh with the signature and then the response to the neg. rep. pt. What IS with that? Who cares anyway? I think you're freaking fabulous. So there. But I must spread the love around. Thanks for the laughter. I needed it today.

 

Bad day. Cold and rainy and blehh. I am too emotionally reactive, and I hate it. The minute I let those emotions out, the more they trick my rationality. WTF is so great about emotions?

 

Anyway, Wit, you helped as usual. My H has a similar background to yours w/o the aunts. In fact, he is a very sensitive guy deep down in, always was, and in his culture this was not ok, so he learned from an early age to lock that part away. It came out when we were dating, but then he moved 500 miles away to find his fortune (I'd like to know where he put it!) and it basically traumatized him. He withdrew into himself in order to survive the cold, cruel world. I thought after we were married and together things would be back to normal, but they never really were.

 

I had such a strange childhood I had no idea what normal was. So after we marry, and I move 500 miles away from all that's familiar, too, only to find shades of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, I'm afraid it wasn't pretty, given my history of emotional neglect and physical abuse.

 

So I tried to storm the citadel. That, of course, drove him deeper into the interior. I tried scaling the walls. He threw rubber chickens out at me like the Frenchman in Monty Python's Holy Grail. I banged my head against the porticullis (sp?) until I was bloody. I sometimes got in that way, which, of course, only encouraged me to try harder.

 

But finally I just got tired of being so damn bloody and went away to start gardening in my own little cottage with a lovely thatched roof and cozy fireplace. But I continue to look longingly at the castle on the hill across the meadow.

 

We meet in the local village pub from time to time, laugh, talk. He likes to come to my cottage, and I enjoy playing hostess, but he quickly returns to the castle, and I just feel sad, wanting more. I mean, delphiniums and a good dog can only do so much.

 

So here I am facing tenure and he's not there for me emotionally during this tough, tough time. It's put me over the edge. Now maybe I'm just using the emotional drama to avoid facing possible rejection from a career I've worked so hard to build. But I'm so nutso some days I can't think, ensuring that I will be facing career rejection.

 

Is this the way relationships are? I dunno anymore. I enjoy him, his intellect, his wit, his values, his body. But it's like living with the tin man who can't care, and it hurts. If I thought he doesn't love me, that this was intentional, I'd be outta here. He must to have put up with all my crap.

 

So is this something I just have to mourn and come to accept, or should I really go build me a cottage, get a dog, and plant delphiniums and start posting on the break-up threads?

 

Sorry to be rambling on so. Thanks for a view from inside the castle.

[Outcast]

Don't you think it's a little unfair to, after twenty-five years of living with this man who has always been this way, suddenly decide that the man you accepted for who he was is now not good enough?

 

If he's emotionally handicapped but otherwise someone you enjoy, then don't expect him to suddenly change and become perfection. Find your support elsewhere - in friends, family, here. Even get a therapist if you need to. But to decide that because he didn't change the way you hoped after marriage (always a huge mistake to think that) he was ok for 25 years but not OK now just isn't right IMHO.

[blind_otter]

Outcast's reply made me wonder, have there been signs of this for a long time? Have you tried various ways to elicit emotional responses from him? I've done some crazy things to try to "earn" the type of attention that I wanted. Not crazy CRAZY, but like I've given way, emotionally or physically or whatever, in ways that I perhaps shouldn't have.

 

I was reading an article about adult survivors of abuse and (obviously enough) the author mentioned how people who come from childhoods of abuse will tolerate situations that most people find intolerable....not necessarily abusive, but on the far end of not being an ideal partnership.

[Lonestar]

the author mentioned how people who come from childhoods of abuse will tolerate situations that most people find intolerable....not necessarily abusive, but on the far end of not being an ideal partnership.

 

Guilty. Thought it was normal.

[Touche]

No one person can emotionally fulfill us completely, in my opinion. Could it be that you're looking for him to fill a hole that the loss of your career has left? It sounds like there's a lot about the man that you do like. His companionship and love are unwavering. You seem to enjoy a lot about him. Focus on that. No one person can fulfill and/or meet all of our needs. Does he meet most of your needs? If the answer is yes, and it sounds like it, then you're ahead of the game. And as for the unmet needs, you need to figure out how to fulfill those without any expectations from him.

[Becoming]

Outcast's reply made me wonder, have there been signs of this for a long time? Have you tried various ways to elicit emotional responses from him? I've done some crazy things to try to "earn" the type of attention that I wanted. Not crazy CRAZY, but like I've given way, emotionally or physically or whatever, in ways that I perhaps shouldn't have.

 

I was reading an article about adult survivors of abuse and (obviously enough) the author mentioned how people who come from childhoods of abuse will tolerate situations that most people find intolerable....not necessarily abusive, but on the far end of not being an ideal partnership.

 

Yes, it's been there since the beginning of the marriage, though not while dating. And of course I tried all kinds of things to elicit emotional responses, not all of which were helpful, I might add. About the time I realized this was futile, I also realized if I ever wanted to have children, it would have to be with him since I was getting older and there was a question whether I'd have trouble conceiving (which was totally bogus!).

 

And yes, I tolerated way too much in the beginning, then got angry about the time I had first child and started realizing what normal love for a child should look like that I didn't get and still wanted from someone, d**mit! (Anger really isn't a good way to get that.) First child was a serious handfull. I didn't think I could single-parent, do career with her, and I do really love this guy, though the lack of tenderness and emotional connection is troublesome to me as a child abuse survivor.

 

Then another child during our one attempt at Catholic birth control (I was never any good at numbers.) I start PhD program, raise babies, dependent upon him. And his business fails. His emotional affair at 16 years in. I threw him out. He starts to wake up emotionally. We reconcile. Yadayadayada. It's stunning how easily 25 years passes.

 

He is working at being emotionally present, but it's so slow. We get along fine as long as I don't expect anything much from him. But is that enough?

 

I know: age-old question. At the deepest level of intimacy, are we just seriously incompatible? Will I just have to mourn what I'm pretty sure I will never have at this point--intimacy and stability--and just go on. Probably

[Touche]

It's a heavy issue Becoming but you do say it's happening slowly. You've waited 25 years, what's a little more time? Don't give up on him just yet. It's great that he's even trying. That's a good, positive sign that he's moving in the right direction instead of not moving on this at all. I'd tell him how much you appreciate it. Acknowledge his baby steps and perhaps he will make progress at a faster rate.

[blind_otter]

I've often wondered whether it's my expectations that are at fault sometimes, more than whoever I'm involved with. Realistically we all have our baggage that we carry with us. Sometimes it falls out of the overhead compartment or whatever, but we all have our own.

 

I think the capacity to help others carry their burdens is a bit stunted in me. I try, sometimes to my personal detriment, and usually collapse into a disappointing heap. As much as I ask for time and consideration when dealing with MY issues, I suppose it's only fair to reciprocate.

 

Thoughts?

[dgiirl]

I was reading an article about adult survivors of abuse and (obviously enough) the author mentioned how people who come from childhoods of abuse will tolerate situations that most people find intolerable....not necessarily abusive, but on the far end of not being an ideal partnership.

 

This is very true. I dont know if I've come from an abusive childhood. I was never physically abused, and not really verbably, but some of the stories I have about my childhood, others have told me "That's abuse". My therapist even told me "Most families are dysfunctional, but your's _really_ is dysfunctional!" To me, that was just family. I have other stories in my marriage, where others have said the same thing "That's abuse". It's hard for me to grasp the idea of abuse. One thing I realized in therapy is my standard for a relationship was just a little higher than what I saw as a child. Because it was slightly better than what I saw, i was willing to stay. I noticed the same pattern with my mom. She definitely came from an abusive family, and so her marriage (in the early years) with my father was slightly better, so she was willing to stay. They're still happily married now, so it's worked for them, but they had a lot of work to go through. What I need to do is set my standard higher. Look at all the people around me who DO have successful healthy relationships and use them as a role model.

[Becoming]

I appreciate the responses.

 

I don't know if my patience is good or if I've been too patient, which has allowed him to do little work through the years.

 

Now that he really is, I don't believe it. My truster's busted, and it wasn't too great to begin with. I've heard all the good things before, so it's hard for me to believe it's for real.

 

Are my expectations too great or too little? I was once told by my therapist I expected too little. Now I'm getting told my expectations are part of the problem by another therapist. Frankly, I don't know. Maybe it's just that I should forget expectations altogether and just go with what feels right. But I have a hard time even trusting myself. And I guess that's the kicker. I haven't learned to trust myself, which is why LS is a big help.

 

When I do set my expectations and standards out there for negotiation, he will agree they're good and will say let's do that, then, but then nothing after two weeks. Then I'm set in the role of enforcer and bad cop or something and blamed for being a b!tch.

 

Mostly I'm tired and confused. My career's not in the toilet yet, but it's sitting on the pot, and I just want to avoid this whole pattern because it feels benevolently evil sometimes.

[Touche]

It sounds like just venting will help you for now. You needn't act on any of this just yet. The career issue is enough to deal with now without throwing marriage issues into the mix. Focus on that and put the other issues on the backburner for now.

 

It almost sounds like you're going thorugh a type of mid-life crisis. I sometimes feel that I am as well.

 

Just keep venting. Eventually this will all make sense to you.

[witabix]

You have been married twenty five years B, a long time.

 

If I were still married it would be 27 years.

 

I know for me, that when I was most emotionally distant and defensive I rationalised by thinking and saying a lot of the things I have seen on LS.

 

You have a house, kids, car, anything you want. What more do you want?

 

I honestly didn't know what else my ex w would want from me.

 

Its about a life view, IMO, when you grow up in such an environment you don't see adults cuddling. I never saw my parents or grandparents holding hands or anything like that.

 

The aunt who looked after me most had an abusive alchoholic husband. I thought he was dead, as she wore mourning black the whole time. But he wasn't! No one talked about him. My uncle committed suicide before I was born. Again it wasn't talked about.

 

You learn to keep it all inside. Things are not to be talked about. Hush there, don't be saying such things.

 

In this world of therapists and opening up that may sound like a dysfunctional family. But it wasn't, it was the norm.

 

Stoic, bear your travails like a man, shut up. Don't talk about it or show your feelings.

 

It all changed for me when a doctor told me I may have only 24 hours left to live.

 

I lay there alone and thought.

 

I thought about my children and my brothers, I thought I may not see them again, ever. I thought of all the things I hadn't said. Of all the things that were left inside me, still in their wrappers. A whole life left unsaid.

 

I didn't think about my favourite guitar, car, job, or anything material. Only the way I was about to go out, leaving all these people without ever telling them what I felt. I wasn't scared of dying. That did didn't bother me.

 

I hope no one else has to go through this to see the facts of life.

 

I have told so many people about that evening and night. It is something I want to share with my friends when they have problems in their lives to show them what is important.

 

I hope your H can come to this realisation without the trauma.

 

I don't know how to do this but maybe you can show your H that he is the imprtant part of your life, nothing else comes close.

 

The material stuff is nice, but the sharing of a life is nicer.

 

Time is money, they say. They are wrong. It is much more valuable than money.

 

Time is all we truly have, and we do not have much of it.

[blind_otter]

B, I hear your confusion. I understand it intimately. But I guess in terms of the big picture, your H seems to be trying. Compared to a lot of the men who tend to be attracted to women who come from backgrounds of abuse (I know you know the predator types).

 

Personally I find your story to be encouraging, giving me hope when I really have none inside myself. That the rest of your life doesn't have to be a chaotic jumble, even if it started out that way.

 

I just wrote a paragraph about something and had to delete it. I'll PM you.

[jerbear]

Witabix:

 

I now understand. It is not easy keeping things in, seeing things and now realizing them. I feel for you.

[Becoming]

You have been married twenty five years B, a long time.

 

If I were still married it would be 27 years.

 

I know for me, that when I was most emotionally distant and defensive I rationalised by thinking and saying a lot of the things I have seen on LS.

 

You have a house, kids, car, anything you want. What more do you want?

 

I honestly didn't know what else my ex w would want from me.

 

Its about a life view, IMO, when you grow up in such an environment you don't see adults cuddling. I never saw my parents or grandparents holding hands or anything like that.

 

The aunt who looked after me most had an abusive alchoholic husband. I thought he was dead, as she wore mourning black the whole time. But he wasn't! No one talked about him. My uncle committed suicide before I was born. Again it wasn't talked about.

 

You learn to keep it all inside. Things are not to be talked about. Hush there, don't be saying such things.

 

In this world of therapists and opening up that may sound like a dysfunctional family. But it wasn't, it was the norm.

 

Stoic, bear your travails like a man, shut up. Don't talk about it or show your feelings.

 

It all changed for me when a doctor told me I may have only 24 hours left to live.

 

I lay there alone and thought.

 

I thought about my children and my brothers, I thought I may not see them again, ever. I thought of all the things I hadn't said. Of all the things that were left inside me, still in their wrappers. A whole life left unsaid.

 

I didn't think about my favourite guitar, car, job, or anything material. Only the way I was about to go out, leaving all these people without ever telling them what I felt. I wasn't scared of dying. That did didn't bother me.

 

I hope no one else has to go through this to see the facts of life.

 

I have told so many people about that evening and night. It is something I want to share with my friends when they have problems in their lives to show them what is important.

 

I hope your H can come to this realisation without the trauma.

 

I don't know how to do this but maybe you can show your H that he is the imprtant part of your life, nothing else comes close.

 

The material stuff is nice, but the sharing of a life is nicer.

 

Time is money, they say. They are wrong. It is much more valuable than money.

 

Time is all we truly have, and we do not have much of it.

 

This helps a great deal. Thanks. I'm glad you lived to tell the tale.

His family is very much like yours. Originally from the stark lands of northern Britain. Once I visited there, I understood a lot more. My family, OTOH, is lowland Scottish and German. I come from a line of highly organized fighters and happy storytellers. We talk and fight. His family does neither.

 

We laugh sometimes and say we're just continuing ancient British border wars.

 

I think maybe it does take a brush with death to get us to live sometimes. This same kind of thing happened to my mother with some incredible healing for many. H's been more open since his favorite aunt's death last fall, now that you mention it. That's when I really saw greater movement.

 

I remember being about 9 years old when my great-grandmother died not long after the old lady who lived next door. Both women had led long, full lives. My next-door neighbor had been the daughter-in-law of the first gov. of our state formed during the US Civil War--that's how old this woman was in the late 60's. Vital as all-get-out. Met her when I peered through hedges of our backyard and saw her sunbathing with nothing on but her hat and heels. When she saw me, she calmly stood up and invited me over for lemonade. We had lemonade and stories at her house on a regular basis thereafter to the sounds of her Victrola. She'd been a flapper and taught me the Charleston. That's how vital this woman was. Then one day she dropped dead and was gone. Just like that. I was considered too young to go to the funeral though I begged to go.

 

But a few months later, there I was looking at my great-grandmother all laid out thinking about the last time I'd seen her, and I hadn't been too nice. And I made a vow right then and there over my dead great-grandmother's body to live my life to the fullest like my neighbor and not be mean to anyone. I've tried to do both, but living with someone who's really just the nicest guy ever but who measures out his emotions with coffee spoons tries the meanness vow.

 

Yes, Touche, you're right. I'm just venting, probably because I am changing a great deal, getting in touch with that little child in me I buried due to the physical and emotional abuse of my childhood. I'm scared that if I insist upon getting some care I so desperately want (probably to an inordinate degree) and don't get it, I'll have to leave--not because I don't love him but just because I need some sanity.

 

Anyway, thanks for the listening ear.

[UnderWorld]

"BECOMING"::PLEASE READ:::THIS WILL HELP::::::::

Lets see...so he doesnt show much response to the most in depth conversations u spill from ur heart and neither does he. Let me guess he doesnt open up to u w/ passion emotion* thats what id like to call it. I take it hes not a depressed person, maybe u are. I bet hes a real happy go lucky, happy about life and always talks about new things and ambitions he has. He simply has a wall and i believe my bf has that too. I can tell when i do cry and open up emotionally. He shows concern but not to the level i would need to have. His response is what do you want me to do? or say? its like if i wanted to tell u wat to do or say about situations that emotionally distrout me, then id get no where.

Its what he feels from his heart to say not strugginng it off or simply showing any feeling towards it. I cant convince him to say or do anything in the response of my emotions or his for that matter. You kinda just want to shake him or have him understand,or be in ur shoes one day. Hes supposably ur best friend too right so u want to be able to turn to him but u cant. The best thing to do is never nag at things like for instance, dont use the word *YOU*. More so use words appreciative to his ego really...like *i really like this or this....not well *you need be more open or more emotional...cuz once hes too emotional he could break. You dont want him to break w/ u ya know,hes wats holding you together see? Somoene has to have someone emotionally stable to have the other one at peace. Hes at peace already w/ his heart and happier then u. Its whats in you , u have to work on before u open w/ him.

Look at urself in the mirror say exactly what u want to say to him. Come to him gently let him know hes ur best friend and that u like the fact you can come to him for anything. I believe u dont believe it urself or in urself to believe that u can come to him. Cuz i bet u think he wouldnt understand and he hasnt been through things u have. Im sure people that have been through things u have, u can open up to them better right? i know i can. Hes had a different upbringing, maybe his family wasnt emotional? if u want him to sincerely show passion *emotion ask him more about his upbringing and find a common ground first like similiar things u both did when u were young...You gotta butter him up first just a bit and dont spill way too much at first just ease into it. Be gentle...