My situation is unusual, read and give your thoughts....

[bluebutterfly_rising]

I came to this sight not for myself, but for my daughter.

 

Now, my daughter has dated a few guys in her short life (she's only 20), but for some reason, this man that she's recently dating has me soooo angry.

 

My daughter started a relationship with him, probably last March. And she fell head over heels in love with him. And she confided in me a lot of the things he did and said to her. Now, my daughter and I are close, and we talk a lot. She didn't reveal intimate things, but you know, the romance part of things. And it really was a whirlwind romance. I mean, this guy really fell in love with my daughter and did all kinds of romantic things for her. It was a great falling-in-love story. But the relationship burned hot and bright and then grew into a nightmare. He seems to be one of those.....what's the term I'm looking for...a "sweet talker". He was all words and no action. But the whole point is, I myself, got totally wrapped up in her life!

 

Right around Christmas, he broke up with her. He gave her the old song and dance: "You're too good for me. You deserve someone better. I can't give you what you need. I'm not ready for this kind of relationship" And it was probably true. I mean, he's only 22 years old, he had a drug problem (mostly pot, but it wouldn't surprise me if other drugs were involved), he stopped going to school. And my daughter was probably looking for a real relationship, and he is right, he probably wasn't ready for what she wanted. And he was a horrible flirt. What drove my daughter crazy is that he constantly checked out other girls and flirted with them in front of her. Meanwhile, telling her how much he loved her, how much she meant to him, etc. You all know the song and dance.

 

So I came here looking for posts to help her with no contact. And she did good for about a month. And then, last week, she went out with her friends, got drunk, and did the drunk phone call thing at 2:00 am, and he answered the phone and agreed to get back together with her.

 

And now, I am despondent. I can't even function because it's like watching a train wreck. Well, he gave her the let's be friends with benefits speech. "Let's take things slow this time. I can't be a boyfriend right now, and I'll totally understand if you're not okay with that. I never want to be in a situation where I can't talk to you again. Don't overthink things, let's just take things a day at a time" I asked her, "Well, are you dating?" and she said, "No, we love each other, but we're not going to be boyfriend and girlfriend". But yet, I know they are sleeping together. He even told her that she didn't have to sleep with him! So I asked her, "So if someone asks you if you're seeing someone, what do you say?'" and she said, "Well, I'm seeing someone, but he's not really my boyfriend"

 

I can't go on....it's so depressing to write about it. I just want to die. I can't even blame this guy because my daughter called him. I want to shake her and say, "Get hold of yourself. Do you know what you've just done? Do you know that this man is going to break your heart into a million pieces? Do you think so little of yourself that you would put yourself in this kind of situation?"

 

I guess the reason I'm even posting this is so that you all can yell at me and tell me to mind my own business....let her make her own mistakes. But it's killing me. It literally driving me insane to see her be treated like this.

 

Blue'

[bluebutterfly_rising]

I guess no one has any good advice....that or everyone thinks I'm just a crazy meddling mom.

 

I just wish I knew what advice to give her.

 

Blue

[incognito]

Right around Christmas, he broke up with her. He gave her the old song and dance: "You're too good for me. You deserve someone better. I can't give you what you need. I'm not ready for this kind of relationship"

 

FWIW...I got this, over and over, never understood it really, chalked it up to low self esteem. You want to know why he said this? Because he's right...he is married and was cheating on his wife. Not saying that's the case w/ your daughter, since they're quite young, but in any case, it sounds like he's just using her.

[bluebutterfly_rising]

I just want someone to tell me the magic words I can say to her that will make that lightbulb in her head go off. You know, the lightbulb that says, "Mom, you're right, he is using me. I need to get out of this relationship now." And then, she'll be over him and not even have to grieve.

 

Blue

[salmagundi]

I dont know what you can tell your daughter. In fact, you can tell her nothing because she wont listen to any reason or logic. I'm responding to this post because that line he used, the old "you're too good for me, you deserve better, I dont deserve you." I got that from my screwy headcase ex just before we broke up.

 

Here's what I think it means. It means he doesnt want to end it with her because he's into the sex. In the case of my ex she honestly did want me to understand that she has issues that were undermining our relationship but she didn't want to let go. If she did she would. PEople use that line, I think, when they dont want to break a relationship off but they dont want to feel guilty when they seriously emotionally f*ck up the person they're with. Also, so that when the parasitic relationship ends (ie. he finds somebody new and ditches her) she cant get upset because he can say "look, I warned you, I told you I was no good...I basically told you to move on...it was you that stayed!"

 

So yeah, she's being used. My ex is a bit different, we're older...we're closer, she's honest and genuinely has issues etc. But this guy? He is full on using your daughter. He will make the minimal investment in her to keep her around until he gets bored or the guilt finally gets to him and/or finds someone new. And you and me both know she wont let go...that she's hooked. He'll be the one to end it...she'll be the one left picking up the pieces. My best guy friend did EXACTLY the same thing to my best girl friend many years ago. She only stopped going to him when she found at he was bragging to a guy who became her next real boyfriend about how all he needed was an hour with her and she would put out for him. He knew how worked over and manipulated he had her.

 

I dont like it, But my friend Amber learned from it. Ten years later she is marrying a genuinely nice guy. The only kind she can stand now.

 

DOnt expect her to leave but do tell your daughter that Salmagundi says this guy is using her and the longer she lets him the more it will hurt in the end.

 

On the other hand, I dont know either of them...maybe its love...

 

salmagundi

[bluebutterfly_rising]

I know there's nothing I can do. It's just tearing ME up, and I'm not the one in the relationship.

 

I just know my daughter is going to fall to pieces when the truth really hits her. Right now, she's overwhelmed with going to school and working. And I don't know what she sees in this guy. My daughter has so many men that want to be with her. Why she wants to be with this guy, I don't know. There are guys just begging to be with her, but no, she wants the guy who basically wants nothing to do with her.

 

It's hard, as a parent, to just sit here and let this train wreck happen. It's like you KNOW something awful is going to happen, and you just have stand back and watch this disaster happen.

 

You know, he calls the house to speak with her. I soooooo much want to tell him off the next time he calls. I want to say to him, "No E*, I'm not going to tell my daughter you called. You're using her, you're a player, I'm just going to erase your number off of the call display and when she asks if you called, I'm going to say NO."

 

Blue

[witabix]

Blue, that is the surest way to drive them together.

 

All you can do IMO is be there for her when/if it does come off the rails.

 

You are her mom, she has to know that you will be there for her.

 

Did you teach her to ride a bicycle when she was little?

 

It is the same thing, you can run along behind holding her up, but there comes a point where you have to let go.

 

It's painful to watch them fall. You have to run to them and hold them and tell them it will be OK.

 

Help them up, sit them back on the bike and let them try again. One day you will see your daughter smiling happily as she goes off into her life, with or without this guy.

 

I am not sure, from what you say, that his IS using her. He seems to have laid it on the line pretty clearly. It's her life, her decision. You can put your hands over your eyes and cry "Watch out for the wall!!" but she is becoming a woman, independent of you and her family.

 

Let her grow her own way.

 

Let her learn from her own mistakes.

 

Be there for her when she is sad or unhappy.

 

Nothing can ever replace the feeling of your mom putting her arms around you and telling you that no matter what she still loves you.

 

Trust me on this, I really feel I know what I am talking about. My mom was terrific.

[bluebutterfly_rising]

Yes, I know...my daughter called him. He was absolutely straightforward with her, and I know I can't blame him at all.

 

But why, why, why is she chosing to be this way, when she can have any person that she wants. Well, not ANY person, but you know what I mean.

 

I have to keep my mouth shut. I know I can't say anything to him at all. But it sure felt good to write what I WANT to say.

 

And I can't say anything to her either, because then it will drive a wedge between her and me.

 

Last night, when she was telling me what he said to her about the relationship, I just nodded my head and smiled, but inside, I was shattered. I thought I raised her to be a proud strong woman.

 

Blue

[witabix]

Well Blue, at least she has her mom still.

 

I wish my mom were still here to stand in my corner with me, like ahe ALWAYS did. I really miss her.

 

You stand there with the towels, water, and cut cream. Then when the bell rings she will know where to go.

 

I love mom's.

 

Respect to you Blue.

[salmagundi]

Agree with Witabix here...

 

My friend Amber, that I was talking about? Her dad was in the same position as you...he absolutely hated her boyfriend and would confront him and confront her and all this did was drive her relationship with him underground. He stopped calling the house, they found other ways to communicate and she stopped talking to her old man about it...at least until after it was over.

 

You're simply going to have to listen to her and advise her when she wants or needs it but otherwise let her fall on her own face.

 

good luck

[blind_otter]

My Mother has a great method. It takes patience but over time it works. When I date someone my family dislikes (historically this is often), they usually refuse to meet the guy. She will listen to me mention him but make no comment on it, using her expression to communicate her disappointment. I get no support if the guy treats me bad, other than practical stuff (like when I was being stalked, my Dad helped me secure my house). No emotional support.

 

And I get rewarded with support when I break up with the guy.

 

That's about it.

[bluebutterfly_rising]

Well, after reading all your responses, and a good night's sleep...

 

I now realize that I have to just mind my own business, let her make this mistake and just offer support, and I have to get my own life.

 

I think all of you have gotten your wisdom from the school of hard knocks as well. And when I think back 20 years ago, I made some pretty horrendous mistakes when it came to relationships as well, and I didn't have my Mom in my corner.

 

But what I wouldn't give to be able to give her a big dose of self-esteem. When this happens to your children, you always wonder, "Where did I go wrong? What didn't I teach her or show her that allowed this to happen?" But perhaps this is a lesson best learned from experience.

 

Who knows...perhaps this will teach her more than I ever could. Perhaps this is a mistake that we all make?

 

I just wish she didn't give him the chance to feel so smug.

 

Thanks guys, you rock.

 

Blue

[witabix]

Good, Blue. We are pleased we could help.

 

Good luck to you and your daughter.

 

Maybe you could somehow suggest she log on here and get some advice?

 

Just an idea.....

[michiboo101]

Its sad but what can you do, she loves him. all you can do is talk to her, and pray to God.

[Lonely and confused]

I am not a parent. But i was in your daughter's position at one time and though I should of believed my parents, I began to resent them for pitting me against my ex who i couldnt believe was doing to me what she was.

 

You know whats best for your daughter, right? You are her mother, you have been there before, and you want to protect her.

 

How did you learn this? Probably because, simply, it happened to you once in your life. And you learned. It probably hurt like hell at the time, but it taught you an important lesson and made you stronger.

 

Unfortunately (that sounds wrong ) as a parent, you feel you need to protect your child from something that is harmful for them. But deep down, I think what tears you inside is that you know that in order for your daughter to understand this, she needs to expierience it herself....

 

she has to be hurt and learn the same lesson we all learn in life.

 

she sounds like i did, and she WILL learn, and she will become a better person because of it.

 

You sound like a wonderful mom, the best you can do is support your daughter and not become the enemy or part of the love triangle. Be there for her when she falls, and dont try to say I told you so (not that you would).

 

Pain and loss are sometimes the best lessons we get in this life.

 

If we all grew up alone on an island till we were 21 and came to the real world. We would be screwed.

 

Your daughter is simply living and she is LUCKY to have a mom like you.

[Becoming]

OK, I hear what y'all are saying. But as a Mom, I'm sorry, I think she has a responsibility to say something. If you saw someone blind walking toward a cliff, you don't just stand there and say, "Hey, I'll be here when ya hit bottom."

 

It's not that everyone else is wrong. It's just that I think you owe her some guidance since she's young (and stupid in this case) and probably lonely for male companionship.

 

Spend more time with her when you can, just shopping, hanging out, whatever. ARe you in same city? It sounds like you see her often.

 

Even if not, you can ask her some pointed questions in an even, curious tone

to get her thinking.

 

No, definitely don't go all drama on her. More like, "I'm just curious: why would you want to call this guy and play around with him at this time in your life? {Listen. Let her know she's heard.} Ask her what she finds so attractive in him. Ask her what she's looking for in a man. Does she want to get married someday or settle down? {Listen. Let her know sh'es heard.} Maybe you're making assumptions about her life that she doesn't want. Then at the right time, in the right tone, maybe in a later conversation: "So why would you want to hang with this guy when there are so many others out there who might think you're with him and not pursue you?"

 

As a parent you do have the responsibility to remind her of the ramifications of hanging out with someone doing drugs--just a rational sentence--and then let it go.

 

All said always in love and support so that she knows you say these things not because you want to control her but because you're her mother and want only the best for her. That means everything in the world.

[witabix]

Becoming's post should definately carry more weight than mine here Butterfly, I will always defer to a Mother on such issues.

 

I was only giving my opinion.

 

Respect B.

[Becoming]

And also Wit. He tells you how much weight a mother's words do carry. And others are also right in telling you if it's not done right you could drive her away and into worse behavior.

[bluebutterfly_rising]

My daughter still lives at home with us. And we are very close. She told me just about everything about the relationship. We don't talk about very intimate details of the relationship because, well, some things should just be private and are not appropriate to share with your Mom, you know. We talk about her relationship almost everyday, several times a day. To the point of where I think maybe I'm too involved. I have given her advice until I'm blue in the face, but she LOVES this guy. She wants to spend the rest of her life with him.

 

I emphasize (have always emphasized) that not only is she a beautiful girl on the outside, but she's such a loving and giving person. She the kind of person that people just are drawn to. I mean, we'll be out shopping or running errands and complete strangers will come up and start talking to her. And she turns heads no matter where we go. I spoke to her just yesterday. I said, "Sweetheart, you can have just about anybody you want. Why do you want someone who so clearly doesn't want you? I mean, this guy says that he will always love you, but he's not your boyfriend, can't be your boyfriend right now, says you don't have to sleep with him if you're not comfortable with that, and that doesn't bother you? You don't see anything wrong with that?" Her response, "Well, he wants it to work out this time so he wants us to take things slow and get to know each other."

 

She's sooo available to him. Yesterday, the conversation that they had was really starting to sink in. And she was having problems with it. And I was so relieved. She cancelled going to see him play hockey and told him that she wouldn't be coming out to see him Thurs. night. She said she was busy and had a lot of homework. So today, he calls her and asks her if she can come see him tonight because he's going to the city Friday night and can't wait until Sat. to see her. And of course, she goes. She just left a few minutes ago. And her friends were having a really great party for the birthday of one of their "crew", and of course, she's not going to that party. No she's going to see this wonderful boyfriend of hers.

 

I mean, I have talked to her, her father has talked to her, her brother has talked to her. When they broke up, I made her talk to a therapist. She was doing so good with No Contact.

 

And now this. So my new line of defense is this: "Listen to your gut. Don't take advice from me, your friends, your sister, your brother, or your Dad. You're getting so much advice that it's starting to be conflicting. You have to learn to trust your own instincts. If you listen to your gut, you'll never be wrong." Notice how I didn't say, "Listen to your heart" because we all know she's listening to her heart a little too much. And I know that she knows this is not a good situation. I know my daughter will come around. I know she knows this but is not able to face this right now. All I can do is be supportive and offer advice when she asks for it.

 

Blue

[Lonely and confused]

I just wanted to let you know again that you really seem like a great mother.

 

I may have been out of line earlier when I suggested you merely let her fall of the edge of a cliff. I didn't mean that the way it came out. What I meant is that I can only imagine how hard it is to watch your own child make destructive decisions when you, the parent know your child is going to be hurt. It must be helpless.

 

I am not a parent, but I know from watching my closest friends making destructive decisions how helpless I feel and how sometimes I feel as if I am knocking down door after door. I can only imagine what it must be like to see your child do this.

 

I did it myself, I started to hang out with my girlfriend WAY to much. I lost some of my friends. I had said blah blah blah to my mother when she told me that I needed to go out and make male friends. I never took her advice and like I said I resented her in ways for it.

 

Now, that I am much older I tell my mother often how much her advice meant to me even though I didn't take it at the time.

 

I realize life is alot like putting your hand in fire.

 

You can be told that it is going to hurt, that it will be painful; but until you actually do it, you don't truelly understand or appreciate it.

 

If things become unhealthy for your daughter to a certain point, it may be that no matter how much she gets angry it is time to intervene. A good friend of mine was on a destructive path with alcohol and me and 5 friends confronted him because it wasnt cute anymore. As angrier as he got, and said he hated us, we all feel we saved his life. There isnt a day that goes by that he doesn't thank us.

 

Sometimes when we are thick in sh*t we get used to the smell. It takes those who love us on the outside to help us remember.

[witabix]

Maybe she is doing that usual youth thing. The more people tell her he is a waster the more she wants him.

 

I have seen it happen. My little brother did it. I told him that while he was in his toxic relationship I did not want to spend time with the two of them, ever. So he never saw me when he was with her. His friends did the same thing.

 

It took two years. But eventually they ended it.

 

Now he has a new partner, and a son. His life has turned around. But he took no notice of my advice.

 

Time saw it through.

[Becoming]

Yeah, really, it does sound you've done all you can. Sounds like you two have the kind of relationship most parents only dream about.

 

I noticed something in the following exchange:

I said, "Sweetheart, you can have just about anybody you want. Why do you want someone who so clearly doesn't want you? I mean, this guy says that he will always love you, but he's not your boyfriend, can't be your boyfriend right now, says you don't have to sleep with him if you're not comfortable with that, and that doesn't bother you? You don't see anything wrong with that?" Her response, "Well, he wants it to work out this time so he wants us to take things slow and get to know each other."

 

Pointing out to her that she seems to only think about what he wants and asking her point blank what it is SHE wants might be helpful. Then telling her we all want to be loved by someone, but if we're giving ourselves away too much in order to get it, love will not be kind to us.

 

This would drive me crazy, too. But remaining calm and keeping communication open is key, of course. Then you have the chance to keep dropping in those drips of sanity that she can hear in the back of her mind when he does something that doesn't feel right in her gut. She'll come around. And if she doesn't, she'll have to learn her lessons the hard way and you'll have to add yet another break in your Mama heart as you let go and watch her wreck her bike.

 

Let's hope she wakes up. The more folks she has dropping all these things on her, keeping her focused on what she wants, as opposed to the bf, the better.

 

Best wishes!

[bluebutterfly_rising]

The fact that you took time out of your days to help me through this speaks volumes and is so appreciated.

 

I think the whole reason I posted this is because, well, I really do believe that I'm too involved in her relationship. I mean, when she broke up with him, I felt like I was going through the breakup. Here's something that I didn't admit to you all, there's a part of me that really, really wanted to see this relationship work out. I don't want to go through the details because then this post would be so long and unreadable. But it really was a whirlwind romance. I mean, this guy had a troubled past and it seemed like he recognized how special and wonderful my daughter was and he fell in love with her. I, her Mom, thought he was so romantic towards her. Many times I thought, wow, every woman is looking for a love like this. And then, the drugs started seeping in, and other stuff that pointed to the fact that he wasn't really as interested in her as he led her to believe. If this guy is a player, then he's a VERY GOOD PLAYER. An unbelievably good player. And when they broke up, I remember every time the phone rang, I was hoping he was calling her, wanting her back, realizing that he had made a horrible mistake and really did love her.

 

So part of the problem is that I think I'm living my life vicariously, through her. And that's not healthy. It's not healthy for her, and it's not healthy for me. I remember telling her, many times, that when you're such a good, loving, and yes, charasmatic person such as herself, that people will take advantage of that and try to latch onto her and just suck the life out of her. And now I'm wondering if I'm not one of those people?

 

I recognize that this is not a healthy relationship. I realize that he's not good for her, but I also seem to be caught up in her mindset. It's almost like I'm in her head experiencing the emotions that she's feeling. And I'm wondering if this could also be because my own life has it's problems that I don't want to tackle, that my own middle-age existance is somewhat humdrum and mundane and so I need the drama of her life to somehow stimulate my own life. How sad is that? We all know those mothers who live their lives vicariously through their daughters, and don't they just seem pathetic? I don't want to be that kind of Mom.

 

And so, I must step back. I must disengage. Yes, I need to be there and be her staunchest supporter and give wise advise and counsel, but not LIVE through her. This is her relationship, and I think I'm doing more harm than good by being so involved.

 

Today, though, I think I'm going to say to her, "Sweetheart, don't you think you deserve a boyfriend who is so in love with you that he's PROUD to call you his girlfriend? Don't you deserve that?"

 

I just wish I could say that to her with HIM standing there.

 

 

Blue

[bluebutterfly_rising]

and she said, "Mom, I don't want to think about that right now. I don't want to go to work sad. You just don't know the whole story."

 

Sooooo....this boyfriend, what, does he think I raised my daughter to be his piece of ass? That's what he thinks. She's so niave, she has never dealt with this type of man before, she doesn't want to believe there are men out there who are really like this. He's mistaken her love for him as her being "easy". She adores him, and he thinks that means he can do whatever he wants.

 

Blue

[Becoming]

I think the whole reason I posted this is because, well, I really do believe that I'm too involved in her relationship. . . .

 

So part of the problem is that I think I'm living my life vicariously, through her. And that's not healthy. It's not healthy for her, and it's not healthy for me. I remember telling her, many times, that when you're such a good, loving, and yes, charasmatic person such as herself, that people will take advantage of that and try to latch onto her and just suck the life out of her. And now I'm wondering if I'm not one of those people?

 

I recognize that this is not a healthy relationship. . . . And I'm wondering if this could also be because my own life has it's problems that I don't want to tackle, that my own middle-age existance is somewhat humdrum and mundane and so I need the drama of her life to somehow stimulate my own life. How sad is that? We all know those mothers who live their lives vicariously through their daughters, and don't they just seem pathetic? I don't want to be that kind of Mom.

 

Very insightful, Blue. "How sad is that?" As sad as the rest of the human race. So you know what you need to do: work on your own life and let hers be.

 

Lonely, I didn't mean to imply that you were advising this. Sorry. Your wisdom is also valid!

 

Once we've said, "Look out!" and they insist on walking on anyway, what can ya do?