I had an abortion, and he doesn't know about it yet

[d'Arthez]

Essentially it's her decision to let this man sleep with her without using condoms; she therefore is responsible for getting pregnant. Period.

Does that absolve him of responsibility? No. So what is gained, by doing this? Nothing. Exactly my point.

Or shall we draw the paralel a bit further, in a hypothetical case? It was her decision to be in a short skirt in a club. She knew, or could have known that because of that she was a rape target. She was raped. Therefore, the rape was her responsibility? I must say, I know a lot of people hold such views, wherein the victim is blamed for the crime. Does not help the victim at all.

 

And what do you think would happen in healthy relationships? Of course the woman would talk with the suspected father. The moment that happens, it is a group decision.

 

But under the law -- and in reality -- it isn't a joint decision. Remember Roe v. Wade: A woman has the right under the law to choose whether to proceed with or terminate a pregnancy.

And it should remain that way. If you attribute reason to your citizens (which is one of the requirements for democracy), you must also attribute reason to your citizens in matters like this - and not dictate what a person should do in a moral matter.

 

Just because they discuss the matter with one another means it becomes a joint decision.

If it is told, yes. If not, no. And there is no law , that it requires the woman to tell the suspected father that she is pregnant. What do you think the effect would be on women who are pregnant, but also in an abusive situation, relationship or marriage?

 

Same with pregnancy. The woman, under the law, can proceed with a pregnancy or an abortion as she wishes.

Depends on state and country.

She can choose to inform the man who she allowed to shoot the sperm inside of her to start the process or not. She can even discuss all the ramifications with him. But ultimately, it's her choice.

Right - and you have never heard of emotional manipulation, spreading of misinformation, et cetera? No, once a decision is made, the assumption is made that it is made on a rational basis - the fact that her relationship was an on/off relationship, suggests to me, that there is much more to the story, than klandes shared. I question the validity of said assumption.

And klandes does not have to share on matters like that.

 

but Klandes' boyfriend was from all accounts, merely a sperm donor whose seed was unwanted by the girl and thus, the fruits of that seed were disposed. He has no responsibility to her and she has none to him.

Right ... so apparently, you hold that emotions, lack of stability do not influence people at all? Right ...

[magda]

I think you're probably dealing with the loss of going through with this and talking to him, who also lost, would kind of put him on the same page as you. It would also establish that the relationship is doomed. It would back up your words with action. All that said, maybe you shouldn't bother saying anything. It's up to you.

 

THAT'S A LOAD OF BULLCRAP. It's BOTH PARENTS' decision. The child is not just the woman's, it's BOTH of theirs. Just because the woman has to bear the child does not mean that the child isn't carrying half of the man's genes. It's HIS child too. There's NO getting around that. If a man can't have a say in whether a child comes into this world, then he should not be made to pay child support.

 

So if a man says he wanted her to abort and she didn't he should be absolved of any responsibility? A lot goes into raising a child besides money and most if not all of it historically falls on the woman. If child support is all a guy has to worry about, I think it's wrong to call having a child both parents decision. Raising a child is completely different from propagating the gene pool.

[crazy_grl]

it's hard but i have to go on, and keep avoiding him at all costs. it's my own punishment.

 

You don't have to tell him about the abortion, but I do hope you'll at least be considerate and give him closure by officially telling him it's over and not simply avoiding his calls/texts. From what you've said, it sounds like there are plenty of reasons why you should end things with him and the abortion wouldn't necessarily need to be mentioned if you didn't want to.

[StrivingtoSucceed]

I think the decision to tell your friend is past. You didn't involve him in your decision, your shouldn't involve him now. It seems as if you know it is over ... let it be, but you should let it be by verbally telling him it is over. Ignoring his calls and texts isn't going to help.

 

That is separate from what you are dealing with emotionally though. You made a decision that will stay with you forever. You made your decision based upon your circumstances at that time. Five years from now, ten years from now, twenty years from now your circumstances may be different and you will wonder ... what you will have to remember is that you made your decision based upon your circumstances at that time. It doesn't matter if other people think that you are right, or wrong, it only matters in how you deal with your actions. You are the one that has to live with it, no one else. Eventually you will find someone that you are supposed to be with and you will be able to share this emotional experience with them if you want to.

 

Either find a counselor, or a friend that you trust, now and discuss your feelings with them. Yes, he is the Father and probably had the right to know and help in your decision; however, that is not the cards that were dealt, so telling him now will only cause him pain better left alone. Deal with your emotions and take care of yourself ... that is what matters now. Good luck!

[BlahBlahQueen]

So if a man says he wanted her to abort and she didn't he should be absolved of any responsibility? A lot goes into raising a child besides money and most if not all of it historically falls on the woman. If child support is all a guy has to worry about, I think it's wrong to call having a child both parents decision. Raising a child is completely different from propagating the gene pool.

 

Either you totally missed my point or you're purposely ignoring it. I was giving an example. Is the child HERS, or is it THEIRS? Or is it hers while she's pregnant, and when it's born it's suddenly magically theirs? Crap. It's all crap.

[Sevenmack]

Or shall we draw the paralel a bit further, in a hypothetical case? It was her decision to be in a short skirt in a club. She knew, or could have known that because of that she was a rape target. She was raped. Therefore, the rape was her responsibility? I must say, I know a lot of people hold such views, wherein the victim is blamed for the crime. Does not help the victim at all.

 

That's a pretty idiotic hypothetical, D'Arthez, because the woman who is raped was forced into an activity. It wasn't a choice, therefore she shouldn't be held responsible for being raped. Now not looking after her own person to avoid a situation as best as possible? That's a different discussion. But rape is different than consensual sexual activity between two people.

 

Frankly, I would call you a word that starts with the letter "i" just for your line of thinking. But that would be impolite.

 

Right - and you have never heard of emotional manipulation, spreading of misinformation, et cetera? No, once a decision is made, the assumption is made that it is made on a rational basis - the fact that her relationship was an on/off relationship, suggests to me, that there is much more to the story, than klandes shared. I question the validity of said assumption.

And klandes does not have to share on matters like that.

 

Please. A man can certainly try to coax a woman into a position that favors his line of thinking or an action that benefits him. But unless he physically forces her to do so, she has the free will -- remember that thing God, nature, evolution has given us -- to decide one way or another. Her lack of maturity in making a decision isn't either the man's problem or our problem nor should it be.

 

Klandes is a grownup, was raised by parents (for better or worse) and has some experience in the real world. She's learned about the birds, bees and intelligent flees. She has had a long-term relationship with this man and knows his level of responsibility or lack thereof. Therefore when she allowed him to insert himself in her without a condom, she knew the consequences. More importantly, since she is allowed by law to decide her reproductive and pregnancy destinies (since one is in a number of ways, separate from the other) and remember, in this country, there is no law stating the man has any role in deciding it (and we live here), he has no responsibility for her lack of maturity and common sense.

 

Her emotional stability? Well we all make decisions, many of which are clouded by emotions. We buy clothes when we're happy, to make us happy or even when we're depressed. Plenty of people have ditched jobs while depressed or in anger. Women have slept with other men while pissed off at their husbands or boyfriends. The reality is that most of us don't make decisions while in the clearest of minds. It's impossible to do so; life doesn't consist of static periods of emotions, but dynamic, fluid waves from anger to happiness and everything in between. Just because emotions can color decisions doesn't absorb one of their responsibility for them.

 

You can argue this any way you want, Klandes, but your logic is a little skewed on this one.

[lindya]

You can argue this any way you want, Klandes, but your logic is a little skewed on this one.

 

I don't hear the OP arguing - just talking through a difficulty she's had, and maybe looking for a bit of support. Needless to say, because it relates to a contentious topic it's been turned into a political/moral/philosophical debate - and, apparently, an excuse for someone like you get drunk on self-righteousness, and sit in judgement of someone who's going through a crappy time of it.

[d'Arthez]

That's a pretty idiotic hypothetical, D'Arthez, because the woman who is raped was forced into an activity. It wasn't a choice, therefore she shouldn't be held responsible for being raped. Now not looking after her own person to avoid a situation as best as possible? That's a different discussion. But rape is different than consensual sexual activity between two people.

My name is d'Arthez.

Of course it is different, in the consensual department (at least that assumption seems sane) - but the whole issue is what is exactly consensual? It is a well known fact, whether we like it or not, that many suspected rapists can use the lines I wrote as a defence, and walk out of the court as free men - and I simply assumed that you who claims to be at least 30 IQ points above me, would have figured that out. And it often works - may we assume that the consensuality is hard to establish in a court room?

 

If you have intercourse with a new partner, who has ommitted to tell you that (s)he suffers from AIDS, is the sex consensual then, or should the partner be tried for attempted murder? In your book it would be consensual. In my book not.

 

Frankly, I would call you a word that starts with the letter "i" just for your line of thinking.

Say it. If you are going to make an insult on a public forum, do so publicly. I already made the mention, the 30 might be 50.

 

But unless he physically forces her to do so, she has the free will -- remember that thing God, nature, evolution has given us -- to decide one way or another.

Free will is an illusion. But that is a different matter. See above example, about AIDS.

 

Therefore when she allowed him to insert himself in her without a condom, she knew the consequences.

No. She knew the possibility existed. If a soldier dies in Iraq, and the body is returned to the family, they are not going to say: "We knew this could happen." - end of story. Strange is it not? And not everyone who is in such a situation ends up in the worst case scenario.

 

More importantly, since she is allowed by law to decide her reproductive and pregnancy destinies (since one is in a number of ways, separate from the other) and remember, in this country,

This country? LoveShack is not a country. Loveshack does not have members solely from one country.

there is no law stating the man has any role in deciding it (and we live here), he has no responsibility for her lack of maturity and common sense.

Indeed. LoveShack does not have any laws. Therefore there is no law that refers to the possibility to women getting pregnant, and everything that follows from that.

 

The reality is that most of us don't make decisions while in the clearest of minds. It's impossible to do so; life doesn't consist of static periods of emotions, but dynamic, fluid waves from anger to happiness and everything in between. Just because emotions can color decisions doesn't absorb one of their responsibility for them.

Absorb one of their responsibility? How would one do that?

 

Yet you persist in believing that OP was in a good position to weigh everything? Right ... Of course she has responsibility (which I never denied), but so does bf. Blaming klandes or the bf is not going to solve the issue for her. It will only add to the guilt. So it is a moot point to bash klandes for her responsibility in this matter.

[blind_otter]

If you make the choice on your own, it is yours to deal with on your own.

 

But I think a lot of women do this, I've heard about it before. I don't understand it. I went through something similar, pregnant by an ex, bad situation....I chose to tell him, even though I wanted nothing from him, because I felt morally obligated to do so.

 

It did make it extremely difficult and painful. He didn't want me to have the baby, and his mother asked me to abort. I was ambivalent about the pregnancy, and ambivalent about the miscarriage. I can honestly say it was a good thing that I lost my baby, but I still grieve often.

 

I did WANT to keep it from him. It would have been easier. I would have had less stress and anxiety and mental anguish. But the easier way isn't usually the right way, IME. I mean, my Dad always said, if you have two choices, always pick the harder option.

 

that's just me. But I disagree that it's the woman's sole responsibility. I felt life inside me twice. Both times it didn't feel like it was particularly "mine" or "his"...it was it's own entity, part of each, each partially responsible.

[klandes]

I don't remember arguing about it before, but i certainly will now.

My original posting asked for advice, not for a moralistic rebuke from a conservative mind. Nevertheless, you adhered to the controversy and possibly you know more about me than my own mother, or parents? It actually made me smile reading such conventional attitude.

 

I never tried to put all the blame on my ex, quote me if i have. We're both responsible, and not you, not anybody will question this fact. It was my decision to go through it alone. No, i was not raped. Nor was i wearing a mini skirt, I had pijamas on, he hated condoms and i was in love. **** happens. Life is a risk on itself. Yes, i was aware of the consequences, and abortion would be way out surely. We have a square as a president, but it is still legal, isn't it? Ok then. What are we disputing??

 

Seriously, do you really think i'm gonna ask him "oh baby, what should we do?" Please. This isn't a case that relates to one of your "kabuki" episodes, where the girl doesn't call you back... and your ego gets hurt and you put a wall against all women in general. You call this "lack of maturity"? And i wouldn't wonder if the next one doesn't call either. Which might explain your anger and certain issues which i may add, you should work on. Or are you just here to bash, and contemplate on other people's lust and desires? Then, maybe it's time to get real or make a living off of loveshack.

 

The culture you come from certainly explains much and adds to your philosophies on life and perception. You can't possibly have opinions on something you never experienced.

 

You mentioned "god", i asked for non-religious commentaries. So i'll save my time on this one.

 

Whether i have liberal views or not, my beliefs on Buddha or God itself. It's my body, i always took care of it, i have a great career, and will not risk NINE months to give birth to a fatherless unwanted child, who has addictions and financial instability. He got me pregnant, and i got an abortion done as soon as i found out. It's what it's for, i believe. I swallowed it up on my own, literally, and it was gone, and i'm moving on. Chapter closed.

The clinic did not ask for his permission, so why do I have to ask him? The law doesn't require it. My abortion is done, and don't regret a bit of it.

 

You cannot possibly understand what goes on inside a woman's body. Nor will i try to make you comprehend such mistery that one carries within. Time is precious. And I certainly don't have to explain to you any of my actions or beliefs for that matter. We all come from different backgrounds and it was bound to raise controversy, without a doubt. This is why i made a direct statement on my OP. But you were the only one who couldn't absolve the political or religious matter on this issue. I asked for personal experiences. Do you have one? My point exactly.

[Ladylay]

Dont tell him, If you are going to finish the relationship anyway.

Why rub salt into the wound.

You took the Pill without talking it through with him, why tell him now?

I feel from what you have said It will really hurt him.

Spain is nice btw. Move on and I wish you well.

[klandes]

welcome to the united states. get real. open your eyes and see what's happening overseas. And so a million others, what are you gonna do about it?

[BlahBlahQueen]

Klandes, I am not passing judgment on you. When I had my abortion, I consulted my boyfriend - the father - before making a decision (we eventually both agreed we were not fit to have a child). You did not. That's in the past and it's pointless to pontificate over it. The relevant thing is that now that it's all said and done, there's no use in telling him. None whatsoever. Don't tell him; spare him the pain, because he does not deserve to know that a child he probably wanted is dead. No one deserves that. Leave it alone, forget it ever happened, and move on with your life.

 

And in the future, please, PLEASE inform any lovers of yours that you are carrying their offspring and ask their opinion before making the decision to keep or abort them... but that's just my personal values talking, and they may or may not mean anything to you, and that's OK too... I respect that...