JadeStar Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 What do others think about people who will not go to counseling? Be it for individual counseling or marriage counseling? Does it mean they are in denial about whatever is going on in their lives? They don't believe in it? They simply do not want help? Pride? I have seen where many people who will at least try counseling, but I see alot too, where people simply will not go for whatever reason. I just never really understood why some people will not get help for things. I see it as trying to possibly improve whatever issues are going on or maybe even to vent etc. So what do others think the reason(s) are some people wont go? Jade
slubberdegullion Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 Depends on the reason for the counselling. Clinical depression and other mental illness carry a huge[i/] social stigma, and to go to counselling for that may be perceived as an admittance of weakness. It's not, of course, but the stigma exists nonetheless. Sometimes individuals or couples will refuse marriage counselling because of the standard, "Don't try to change me!" or "Don't try to fix me!" responses.
kitten chick Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 Good post. Glad to see good slubber is back. Two things to add to slubber's post. Some people can not accept that they have problems. Some people don't have the maturity and awareness of self to realize that they have a problem.
d'Arthez Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 Does it mean they are in denial about whatever is going on in their lives? They don't believe in it? They simply do not want help? Pride? Hard to tell. Sometimes denial. Sometimes they suffer from an illness where the whole "being part of the medical circuit" is one of the symptoms. Lack of belief in counselling. For some illnesses or short-comings people may feel that the counselling is worse than no treatment, or goes against their beliefs. I have seen where many people who will at least try counseling, but I see alot too, where people simply will not go for whatever reason. That whatever reason, is often a rationalization. And (wo)man can rationalize almost everything as being normal, sane and whatnot. But the reason is something they believe in, simply because they do not believe in the diagnosis in the first place. I just never really understood why some people will not get help for things. Pride. Even moreso in societies were the problem is considered to be a serious dysfunction, or something people should be highly ashamed of. Or even more mundane: a lack of money.
basscatcher Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 I have encountered this many times with my signif. others.. Here is what I have discovered with my own situations: He: *has to much pride *is in denial (doesnt think theres a problem.) *doesn't think anyone can help *thinks psycholgists are only looking to steal your money *doesn't want to admit his faults *doesn't want to tell anyone his life. *thinks I am the one at fault and I am the only one who needs help *is scared of what he will hear *doesn't want anyone to know he has a problem *wanted me to councel him instead of finding licensed therapist. (I said NO!). There are things I have been told during and after the break-ups from the men I've dated.
alphamale Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 *has to much pride sometimes that is all that one has left. *is in denial (doesnt think theres a problem.) this is human nature...if we all dwelt upon our problems we'd never get outta bed... *doesn't think anyone can help they probalby can't, we have to fight our own demons. a therapist with a master degree charging $100/hr is probably pretty smart and can assist but the patient must still do 95% of the work to get better. *thinks psycholgists are only looking to steal your money many of them are *doesn't want to admit his faults who does? its very hard sometimes to look honestly into the mirror. *doesn't want to tell anyone his life. so? we all have skeletons in the closet and many of us have things about our life that we would not even tell our own mother let alone a therapist. *thinks I am the one at fault and I am the only one who needs help everyone has problems. if you think soemone needs prof help then it is within their right to think that you need it also. *is scared of what he will hear most people don't want the truth...they prefer their fantasy world where they can escape and justify all their own thoughts and behaviours. *doesn't want anyone to know he has a problem who does? one can lose their job, friends, family, money, respect and a host of other things if the "cats let outta the bag"... *wanted me to councel him instead of finding licensed therapist. (I said NO!). probably a good idea...unless you were going to be his sex therapist
basscatcher Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 ALPHA--I should have known you would pick my post... You love to have something to say back to me. Quote: Originally Posted by pada *has to much pride sometimes that is all that one has left. Pride is something that will not let you heal and grow Quote: Originally Posted by pada *is in denial (doesnt think theres a problem.) this is human nature...if we all dwelt upon our problems we'd never get outta bed... I getta outta bed to deal with the problems so I can get past them. If I don't deal with them they will forever be on my back. Quote: Originally Posted by pada *doesn't think anyone can help they probalby can't, we have to fight our own demons. a therapist with a master degree charging $100/hr is probably pretty smart and can assist but the patient must still do 95% of the work to get better. Much agree with your statement here. We seek psycholigists to help us because we don't have and didn't learn the necessary skills we need to get ourselves out of rutts. The patient has to do most of the work.. I know this first hand and it does pay off. Quote:Originally Posted by pada *thinks psycholgists are only looking to steal your money many of them are I agree there are bad ones out there. I have had a few.. But there are good ones also and those are the ones to seek out. Quote: Originally Posted by pada *doesn't want to admit his faults who does? its very hard sometimes to look honestly into the mirror. Learning too is a part of maturity. Quote: Originally Posted by pada *doesn't want to tell anyone his life. so? we all have skeletons in the closet and many of us have things about our life that we would not even tell our own mother let alone a therapist. Yes, understood. But I am one to share about 98% of myself openly. Even to my mother.. That is why people who get to know me trust me.. Quote: Originally Posted by pada *thinks I am the one at fault and I am the only one who needs help everyone has problems. if you think soemone needs prof help then it is within their right to think that you need it also. I never deny I need help from time to time and I seek it if I can't find solutions to whatever it is I am struggling with. I also take a look at myself if someone tells me I have a flaw in my beliefs. Quote: Originally Posted by pada *is scared of what he will hear most people don't want the truth...they prefer their fantasy world where they can escape and justify all their own thoughts and behaviours. I would much rather have the truth and have it hurt then to have someone lie to me and rip my heart out when the truth comes out... I prefer to practice living in reality and not a fantasy world. I need to be alert and awake and not living in a cloud of dreams from reality. I use to be a dreamer when I was a teenager. It was my escape from the pain I was living in. (family problems.) I missed out on so much because I wasn't paying attention. I could have learned something from it. Quote:Originally Posted by pada *doesn't want anyone to know he has a problem who does? one can lose their job, friends, family, money, respect and a host of other things if the "cats let outta the bag"... If someone has a problem that big that they could lose their job, family, whatever it may be then they really should get help.... Quote:Originally Posted by pada *wanted me to councel him instead of finding licensed therapist. (I said NO!). probably a good idea...unless you were going to be his sex therapist Ah but a few twas... hahaha I wanted to become a Psychologist and have experience as a patient and also started a few courses in college but chose not to persue because I get to emotionally attached to people and it would be too difficult for me to let go of someone who refuses to help themselves. I think maybe working as a advocate might be easier..
lilmoma1973 Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 Depends on the reason for the counselling. Clinical depression and other mental illness carry a huge[i/] social stigma, and to go to counselling for that may be perceived as an admittance of weakness. It's not, of course, but the stigma exists nonetheless. Sometimes individuals or couples will refuse marriage counselling because of the standard, "Don't try to change me!" or "Don't try to fix me!" responses. Totally agree most people will not change because they don't think they are the problem and think it is all your fault and they are in denial of their faults as well.. When two people go to counseling is it because they both have a hand in what has happen not to blame one or the other!! When going to counseling they feel you are going to blame them for everything .. My h felt this way and stopped going to counseling because it open up things he didn't want to and it made him upset .. He stopped going once the counselor stepped on his toes and brought out the issues of his anger steming to his childhood and it scared him!!
Geoffrey Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 Hard to tell. Sometimes denial. Sometimes they suffer from an illness where the whole "being part of the medical circuit" is one of the symptoms. Lack of belief in counselling. For some illnesses or short-comings people may feel that the counselling is worse than no treatment, or goes against their beliefs. This describes my severely depressed ex GF completely. She is in very bad shape right now, not functioning, living with someone else who is very depressed too. If anyone NEEDS HELP, it is her....and it makes me so sad because I knew her before all of this went down and she is SO WORTH IT to fix. Depression hurts. I know, I've been there myself a few years ago and it took different meds and some deep counseling to get out of it.
blind_otter Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 Much agree with your statement here. We seek psycholigists to help us because we don't have and didn't learn the necessary skills we need to get ourselves out of rutts. This is ironic, because the profession that has the highest suicide rate in the nation is Psychologists. I figured this out in undergrad in my psych program. Everyone there, including me, was a nutcase. Most of us chose this line of higher education because we are messed up, ourselves. And ain't it so common to be able to help others more than you can help yourself.
a4a Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 This is ironic, because the profession that has the highest suicide rate in the nation is Psychologists. I figured this out in undergrad in my psych program. Everyone there, including me, was a nutcase. Most of us chose this line of higher education because we are messed up, ourselves. And ain't it so common to be able to help others more than you can help yourself. I have heard this many times before.... very interesting. Would you like to talk about this? Not every little problem requires professional help. And not every professional is really qualified. Have you ever been around an ex smoker? As a smoker they just ride you about your problem.....or a recovering alcoholic (some, not all).... turn your once a week beer drinking into a problem. Wonder if this also happens to those people that have been in therapy? Do they make mountains out of other peoples mole hills? curious? a4a
blind_otter Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 I have heard this many times before.... very interesting. Would you like to talk about this? Not every little problem requires professional help. And not every professional is really qualified. Have you ever been around an ex smoker? As a smoker they just ride you about your problem.....or a recovering alcoholic (some, not all).... turn your once a week beer drinking into a problem. Wonder if this also happens to those people that have been in therapy? Do they make mountains out of other peoples mole hills? curious? a4a Not that I know of. For the most part, it's not like the dentist (who I think is trying to squeeze me out of money. I'm an adult. No I won't get braces. Next question. haha), or the lady doctor who you HAVE to see at least once a year. Mostly they go by the idea that if you're approaching a therapist, there is something that is bad enough to interfere with the normal day to day functioning of your life. So even if it's not a big deal to anyone else, it obviosuly is to the person seeking help. My issue is that there are so many therapists that are either overly dogmatic, and follow some kind of magically pre-ordained methodology that forces people into cookie-cutter images of psychological fitness; or, they are those smarmy "ecclectic therapists" who pick and chose from various methodologies according to their personally skewed view of the world and what "psychological health" entails. I like positivistic and humanistic psychology myself. Gives a person room to figure out what fits them. But sadly, many people think that psychologists are some kind of spiritual guru. They don't think to go and interview as many psychologists and therapists and put THEM on the spot with educated questions designed to discover whether they are a good fit for you and your particular issues. Christian? Don't see an agnostic therapist. You will clash. Agnostic? Don't go to the 12 steps of AA. Go to rational recovery, same idea, different concept of what "higher power" means. Patients can get as dogmatic as their therapists, occassionally, and preach their therapeutic insights as if they are the gospel. It's just part and parcel of the general ignorance towards the intellectual discipline. Very, very very VERY few people understand mental illness, and culturally it's still taboo -- we can discuss it in terms of other people, but not in reference to ourselves. It's ok to label others as "psycho"... or my favorite, the constant misconception that schizophrenia is in any way related to multiple personality disorder!! har har har. I hate that. Socially there is no place for the mentally ill. We ignore them and hide them. We joke about them in ways that would be inappropriate when discussing people with diabetes or HIV or cancer. They exist like the unwanted retarded child who is locked away in a home, an embarassment. WE forget that mental health, like everything is a continuum. Some are more capable than others. Those who are less functional could probably benefit from learning different skills from an objective, properly trained person. Yet there are no national standards in place. I worked at a forensic mental hospital years ago and I realized then that we, as a country, have failed the mentally ill. 75-80% of the homeless population are mentally ill. We ignore them, mock them, look down upon them, tell them to just "get it together"...meanwhile, we continue to promote a society that seems to celebrate emotional and mental dysfunction. Narcissits tend to be the most successful personalities in business, politics, and the entertainment industry.
a4a Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 Patients can get as dogmatic as their therapists, occassionally, and preach their therapeutic insights as if they are the gospel. . Yes my point is just that! Also preach and attempt to apply or "diagnose" others because of their own experience. Thus making mountains out of others mole hills. a4a
basscatcher Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 This is ironic, because the profession that has the highest suicide rate in the nation is Psychologists. I figured this out in undergrad in my psych program. Everyone there, including me, was a nutcase. Most of us chose this line of higher education because we are messed up, ourselves. And ain't it so common to be able to help others more than you can help yourself. I believe this too. :lmao: This is one reason why I didn't become a Psychologist--I get too emotionally attached to people and care too much. I wouldn't know how to deal with someone not succeeding in helping themselves. I would be depressed all the time because I wouldn't able to help those person's who gave up and didn't work to help themselves.. I can see why this profession would have the highest suicide rate. It's hard, when we care about someone we've become close to, to watch them destroy their lives. I cannot detach myself emotionally from people I have intimate converstations with. ******* I also agree that people who overcome obsticles in their own lives preach to others. I have had it happen to me many times and I beleive I am guilty of it myself. Because they (WE) believe if we can get through it anyone can and we are so enthusiastic and joyful we survived our ordeal we want others to feel that same joy and relieve of survival. We come off as pushy, overboard, not understanding of the other person. Also I've had people make mountains out of mole hills of things in my life. I have also done this to others out of fear that they would fall off their cliff and I didn't want to see that happen.
blind_otter Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 IMO it comes from the fundamental misunderstanding of what mental illness is. The nature of the beast involves denial. Most people who suffer to some degree or another acitvely employ this as their most useful coping mechanism. I've seen it in other people. It makes me physically ill. I just choose not to associate with people who refuse to acknowledge their dysfunction. IMO, I may be crazy, but at least I admit it. The worst culprits are those who deny their own dysfunction and act as if, when it's pointed out to them, that they are innocent. If you truely don't have an issue, it wouldn't bother you to be accused of something you needn't worry about. 90% of the time a person who has overcome their own issues wouldn't venture to say anything unless there was something observable to comment on.
basscatcher Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 90% of the time a person who has overcome their own issues wouldn't venture to say anything unless there was something observable to comment on. Much agreed...
blind_otter Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 Yes my point is just that! Also preach and attempt to apply or "diagnose" others because of their own experience. Thus making mountains out of others mole hills. a4a Don't twist my words. I didn't say anything of diagnosing others. That's often called "Psych major syndrome" -- as you learn about different disorders you see it in everyone. This is actually normal and usually has a basis, but the issue is the continuum I mentioned. Everyone has elements of mental illness or dysfunction. The question is whether it's big enough to interfere with day to day necessities. I was refering to those who think that their approach to healing applies to everyone, and it doesn't. That is all I was saying.
a4a Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 If you truely don't have an issue, it wouldn't bother you to be accused of something you needn't worry about. 90% of the time a person who has overcome their own issues wouldn't venture to say anything unless there was something observable to comment on. Not all people have the knowledge or the restraint not to say something or to diagnose others. If done so publically such as the work place it can lead to several problems for the person being "diagnosed" by the person. Or even within a circle of friends can cause problems for the one being "accused" of having a problem. Odds are the "diagnoser" will not keep their diagnosis to themselves.......??? This "diagnose" will most likely be shared with others. I guess my point is ...... just because you have PMS does not mean every women does. I have seen this sort of "I have it so -you do too" thinking on LS. I am wondering why people do this? a4a- why do shrinks go to shrinks?
blind_otter Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 Not all people have the knowledge or the restraint not to say something or to diagnose others. If done so publically such as the work place it can lead to several problems for the person being "diagnosed" by the person. Or even within a circle of friends can cause problems for the one being "accused" of having a problem. Odds are the "diagnoser" will not keep their diagnoses to themselves.......??? This "diagnose" will most likely be shared with others. I guess my point is ...... just because you have PMS does not mean every women does. I have seen this sort of "I have it so -you do too" thinking on LS. I am wondering why people do this? a4a- why do shrinks go to shrinks? This is the issue in a nutshell. It should NOT cause so many problems to admit that you aren't the picture of psychological health. No one is, AFAIK. There is NO SUCH THING as a completely mentally competant and healthy person. Period. To assume as much is ridiculous in and of itself and smacks of the denial-encouraging society we live in. So what if someone has a mental illness. As long as they aren't hurting me, why should we care so much? As long as they are getting treatment? Would the same be true if so and so had cancer? Rheumatoid arthritis? NO. And the fact that an illness with an identifiable treatment protocol is somehow "bad" makes me angry. The ignorance surrounding mental illness is shocking. And sad. I feel sad for people who judge the mentally ill.
a4a Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 This is the issue in a nutshell. It should NOT cause so many problems to admit that you aren't the picture of psychological health. No one is, AFAIK. There is NO SUCH THING as a completely mentally competant and healthy person. Period. To assume as much is ridiculous in and of itself and smacks of the denial-encouraging society we live in. So what if someone has a mental illness. As long as they aren't hurting me, why should we care so much? As long as they are getting treatment? Would the same be true if so and so had cancer? Rheumatoid arthritis? NO. And the fact that an illness with an identifiable treatment protocol is somehow "bad" makes me angry. The ignorance surrounding mental illness is shocking. And sad. I feel sad for people who judge the mentally ill. I do not see where I wrote that I said I was perfect, nor did I say I judge the mentally ill........ill means ill.......physical or mental.... ill........ This is the second time a person has gotten angry with me because I simply stated because you suffer from a disease does not mean everyone else has that same disease/problem. Again anger surfaces...... and lashing out stating that I am not perfect and I am ignorant??? I am some how putting down people who suffer from illness? Not so? My point was ......just because people have a problem does not mean others do......and why do so many people project, diagnose, and attempt to tell others they do suffer from similar or the same problems? a4a
blind_otter Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 I do not see where I wrote that I said I was perfect, nor did I say I judge the mentally ill........ill means ill.......physical or mental.... ill........ This is the second time a person has gotten angry with me because I simply stated because you suffer from a disease does not mean everyone else has that same disease/problem. Again anger surfaces...... and lashing out stating that I am not perfect and I am ignorant??? I am some how putting down people who suffer from illness? Not so? My point was ......just because people have a problem does not mean others do......and why do so many people project, diagnose, and attempt to tell others they do suffer from similar or the same problems? a4a Sugar, I don't know why you are getting defensive. I don't recall using a single personal pronoun in that post.... I was commenting on SOCIETY. And I was saying that it's sad that there is enough of a negative stigma attached to mental illness that even mentioning it.discussing it/joking about it can have the negative consequences in work and family and amongst friends, that you mentioned intially.
a4a Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 so many problems to admit that you aren't the picture of psychological health. I am being defensive...... just asking and clarifying. Curious I suppose..... a fault of mine at times a4a
Author JadeStar Posted January 31, 2006 Author Posted January 31, 2006 Oh I didn't mean for my post to get anything started:D I do agree with what alot of you has said. I know my counselor has told me before that he got into the counseling business partly because he had alot of issues growing up and decided he wanted to help others. Of course thats after he resolved many issues in his life, and I'm sure he still has some to this day, we all do. My husbands sister had lots of troubles coming up, smart as a whip though and she works as a psychatric nurse, and says her job can be so stressful but hey its the line of work she chose. Jade
blind_otter Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 ON further reflection, I think that it's difficult to develop the necessary empathy and compassion if you haven't suffered. Suffering makes the soul, they say.
Mz. Pixie Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 ON further reflection, I think that it's difficult to develop the necessary empathy and compassion if you haven't suffered. Suffering makes the soul, they say. Absolutely, just as one who has never suffered with addiction can relate like one who has or someone who has had family who has. It's easy to say "Those people" until "those people" are just like you or a family member.
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