Situation, someone want to point out what I did wrong? (Grab a cup of coffee)

[TheTallOne]

First off... My personality is more on the serious side. I like to talk in deep subjects (avoid hollywood gossip ****....stupid TV shows etc, Ie "adult talk"). I love to talk about world events, politics, government, police issues.. life, philosophy, desires in life, what people hate... etc.

 

I have dated mutiple girls over the past few years, haven't been in a relationship however for longer than I can count. I was forced into the "grow up" track since I've had to work a good amount to afford car, tuition etc. Because I have "grown up", my professional life in the work place has sky rocketed. However, I think my personal life (with girls espically) has kind of been hurt. Most girls around my age (early 20s) are still concentrated on being immature and young, which is not my fortay.

 

Now, before people say "Relax, be young, have fun!!!". I do... I go to parties occasionally, I drink/have fun, dance, clubs etc. I just take relationships very serious, I'll call girls when I tell them to, and I will do small things for them.. to make them feel special. I believe communication, honesty and sex are some of the most important parts of any relationship. The two above MUST come before any type of sexual advances happens however.

 

 

Anyway, onto what I am trying to talk about. I am going to be very open and honest here, (more so than normal), I dont' want a kick in the ass per say.. (I might need it though), I probably made some mistakes however, and I'd like to be told how to redo it the next time around. (diff girl, obviously)

 

I asked out this girl I knew from work (one night a week part-time job, could easily drop it if need be, only a local gym). She was giving me decent signs, so, I went for it. She said no.. that she doesn't have the time, and she has been hurt in the past with her prior jerk boyfriends. I told her that I found that to be a bad excuse. She called me a jerk, said she was happy that my "true colors" had come out. I told her that I was tired of being told bull**** lies, tired of being lead around. She said that she was also tired of the same stuff.

 

What happend between then (Beg of Oct.) and the beginning of Novemeber was this;

 

1. She upped the conversation/communication with me. Txting a great deal (not really calling...), more so than normal. I was fine with it.. I answered her txts, but, I was not really sure as to what she was angling at. She would txt as to what she was doing, how I was.. where she was etc. Such as "I am out of class now" or "I am on my way home now.." conversation starters, if you will.

 

2. Towards the end of October, she was starting to call. Every once in awhile, not that much however. (She said txting costs her $$, and she was on a budget)

 

3.End of October, she was being a tease, very big one. She said that when I was done with my Martial arts lesson, to come out to the pool.. as she was in a bikini. You ever get that gut reaction that something is not right? Well, I had it. I go out, and she comes up and gives me a big hug. I talk to her for a bit, then I tell her I have to get home, as I have a early class the next morning.

 

Beginning of November, we're talking with eachother outside right after the gym closed. Because of all the signs (from the past month or so), I bring up the idea of dating again. She says that she will have to think about it.. as she isn't sure. I get some bad advice from someone I know, that the best way to judge a woman's interest in dating.. is to see if she'll pay. So, I tell her that she'll have to pay though.. she gets somewhat upset, and says no way. I finally reneg and say that I'll pay for this time around. Week later, she says ok, that she'll go for it. I ask her out the following week, we go out to a resturant, we have a good time. I get at the end of the night.. a hug. She told me that she wants to take it slow, I tell her that is fine.

 

This is where it gets kind of tricky;

 

Because I was dating another two girls at the same time (nutting sexual with them however), and I tend to be somewhat honest and open (I know how much girls just love surprises........), I told her that while we are dating, that I am conintuining to see other girls. She gets somewhat upset with me.. and gives me a stern phone call on a Friday night, telling me that she didn't appreciate what I told her.

 

Somehow, someone at work thought I had gone out on an actual date with someone on a sunday night (I didn't.. was working on a r-paper for school), and she told her. Well, she got really, really, upset about it. She called a good amount that week, I ignored the calls, and put it towards voicemail. She sounded like she was going to break down. I was like "ooooh, boy". She told a friend of mine that she thought I wasn't interested in her, and she didn't know what to do.. that I didn't call her that much, and she didn't know what I was thinking. (Mind you, she never told me this.. I found this out from another person). Within a few days after Thanksgiving, I call her and talk to her over the phone for almost an hour during the afternoon. Probably the longest I've been on the phone with a chick in ages.

 

I went out on another date with her the following SUnday.. however, she threw me a curve ball. She invited her sister along also. The conversation was good, lots of laughs and such. She was playing footsy under the bench at the place where we were at.. however, having the sister along kind of precluded me from attempting to make a deeper connection with her.

 

From that point on, she continues to call. I return them/pick them up when I can, but.. she is putting a great deal amount of pressure on me from this point on. She wants to take it slow, however, what she is doing is what would happen when you're in a relationship, not when you're dating. So, she is defintely sending me mixed signals. When your "missed calls" on your phone fills up the screen from a person, you know something is very much wrong. She would still continue to call, and sound like she is breaking down in tears. I called her one day, she told me she was.. uh, PMSing (should have hung up the phone then), I made a comment about something with regards to how some women use men for their money by alluding to sex (dunno how we even got on the subject). She took it as I was talking about her, or a general offense at women in nature.. then she starts talking about how the ex she likes, she might meet up with him in Colorado when she goes out there. I hung up on her then, and txted her telling her that guys HATE it when you mention exs, espically in a good light. She told me that she didn't appreciate the comment that I had made, I told her that it wasn't directed towards her at all.

 

She called me the next day, in a really, really depressed mood. She said she hadn't gotten much sleep the night before, as she was thinking about what had happend. She wasn't sure what she was feeling/knowing (even if that was true.. I dunno). Two days later, I was talking to her about how she needs to tell me what she is feeling.. as I can't read minds etc. That she needs to trust me, that I am not trying to hurt her at all. She calls me that night, (and once again...) feels like she is sobbing/crying.

 

A few days later... It was coming to a point where I needed a answer, as she was playing too many games for me to handle. Right before Christmas break, I told her that she has to make up her mind. If she wants a relationship or not. I gave her approxmiately a week and a half to think about it (she was going on vacation.. should have waited till she got back to tell her, dur.). She goes away to colorado, she doesn't call until a week into the trip (I missed the call.. it was at 11pm at night, don't have my cell on me). She calls me on New Years day, to wish me a happy New Years. I miss that call, and call her right back. We talk probably for a grand total of 2/3 minutes, then we say goodbye, and she hangs up. She doesn't call again while on the trip.

 

When she gets back, I told her that I would like an answer. (I waited a few days until after she got back) She said that she doesn't have the time for a relationship, that all she can really offer right now is a friendship. That she was interested until I put too much pressure on her, and that it turned her off. I was getting conflicting reasons, one part she was saying she has no time.. the other part was that she still is wounded from prior relationships. I never knew really as to why she was that way.

 

Ironically enough, she was dating someone within a few days of us "breaking it off". This is a girl who hadn't dated anyone since last Marchish.. I was the first guy she dated since then. Think she is using him to get back at me? Or just a rebound guy?

 

I know this for somewhat of a fact;

 

1. She is insecure, low selfesteem.. and unsure of herself. She flaunts her sexuality to see what she can reel in. According to her sister, she was never like this. Because her EX used to use what she told him, against her.. she as a deep resentment against trusting people, guys espically.

 

2. I don't think I should have put that type of pressure on her, but, what choice did I have? She was swamping me hard.. I have no problem with taking it slow, however, NO progress was made. She took the level of communicating to the level of a relationship, which she didn't want. Hence, she wants what a relationship has, minus the commitment. I have no problem with chatting every once in awhile (I do that with girls who I do date... but at a slower level then she did), however.. I think she went overboard.

 

3.The level of physical commitment was.. not there. She would flirt heavily via touching and such, but the only kiss I got was a few days before Christmas.. and that was on the cheek. Go figure?

 

4. I know its somewhat the guy's responsibility to take it a step further.. that is my fault. However, she kept saying she wanted to take it slow, I was trying at my upmost to respect that.

 

5. I should have scheduled another date after the 2nd one... but, I didn't. We hung out at school a few times since then, and chatted for a bit.

 

6. I should have not asked her out the 2nd time, and told her that I wasn't interested in her anymore (which would have been a lie.. but, it would have saved me the trouble, but.. hindsight is 20/20, eh?)

 

I am probably forgetting a lot more.. but, those are the main highlights.

 

ANy questions.. comments..flames... please continue. My purpose is to better myself.

[BlahBlahQueen]

Erm, hmm, let's see... YOU TWO ARE NOT COMPATIBLE. That's putting it gently. Find another one.

[filarena]

I think it's possible this girl wasn't really ready for a relationship even though she was clearly attracted to you, so don't kick yourself too hard. I do think there are mistakes you might want to avoid making in the future, but I want to stress that I think even without them, you might not have wound up in a good relationship with this girl.

 

First of all, you are sending mixed signals yourself. You may see nothing strange to dating several girls at once, but when you say things like I'm tired of the bullsh*t and head games and I just want good communication and so on, it seems very contradictory to be dating several girls at once. That sounds more like you enjoy playing the games you are tired of.

 

Second of all, I don't know how you talk to girls you are interested in, but you come across as thinking people need to prove that they are worth your time in even talking to. People in their early 20s can be pretty immature, but thinking you are better than everyone b/c you don't care about hollywood gossip is a bit harsh. I'm not saying you need to have fun and act more like everyone else your age, but try not to let it show quite so much that you think you're on a different plane.

[bluechocolate]

Erm, hmm, let's see... YOU TWO ARE NOT COMPATIBLE. That's putting it gently. Find another one.

yep

 

You should have listened to her when she first said no & saved yourself all the subsequent drama.

 

btw - when someone says no to a date, they don't need an excuse & they certainly don't have to explain themselves.

[tanbark813]

Ok, a few points:

 

1. You put too many cards on the table. I don't know what your friend said about the girl paying thing, but you definitely shouldn't have said that before the date. It's always a good sign if, when the check comes, the girl reaches for her purse, but it's just something to take note of in your mind.

 

2. Furthermore, regarding laying too many cards on the table, if you're dating multiple people, don't bring it up unless asked. Yeah, it's your right, but you don't need to flaunt it to a girl. Be honest, but not honest to the point of cruelty.

 

3. Girls in their early 20's are immature as a general rule. The meeting up with the ex and emotional instability is par for the course. You would probably get along better if you dated girls in their 30's. I've dated girls who were 7 - 10 years older than me and got along great with them.

 

4. Pressuring for the relationship was obviously a mistake. It sounds like you were ignoring a lot of her attempts to contact you, and she even said she wanted to take it slow, but then you turn around and basically demand a relationship. That sort of thing never works with women.

 

5. You come across as looking down on people. You might want to minimize that.

 

Finally, you do sound a little uptight. It's fine to be interested in intellectual pursuits and not be caught up in the latest Brangelina news, but you may want to loosen up and just have fun with the girls you date, especially if they're in their early 20's.

[whichwayisup]

Always listen to your gut. It SCREAMED at you and you ignored it.

 

This girl is high drama, I think you got a little taste of it.

 

I agree with Tanbark, have fun, try not to be so serious and intense. Not all love to sit and talk about serious things in life, politics, science, history. Open yourself up and just let whatever happen, happen...(But not with this girl, she is not right for you nor are you right for her.)

 

Good luck!

[TheTallOne]

First of all, you are sending mixed signals yourself. You may see nothing strange to dating several girls at once, but when you say things like I'm tired of the bullsh*t and head games and I just want good communication and so on, it seems very contradictory to be dating several girls at once. That sounds more like you enjoy playing the games you are tired of.

 

Second of all, I don't know how you talk to girls you are interested in, but you come across as thinking people need to prove that they are worth your time in even talking to. People in their early 20s can be pretty immature, but thinking you are better than everyone b/c you don't care about hollywood gossip is a bit harsh. I'm not saying you need to have fun and act more like everyone else your age, but try not to let it show quite so much that you think you're on a different plane.

 

First;

 

I was always told (and learned) not to put all your eggs in one basket. Hence me dating mutiple people at a time. Its just that I didn't want the chance of me getting into a relationship with another person.. and her coming back and saying "YOU NEVER TOLD ME!!!". I can see your point though, I just disagree with it.

 

Second;

 

Yes, I do get that a lot. However, I really tell people that I am not interested in the hollywood stuff.. I just simply don't talk about it, as it doesn't interest me. I don't put people down (intelltionally), I tend to try to bring them back up, raise their self-esteem.

[TheTallOne]

yep

 

You should have listened to her when she first said no & saved yourself all the subsequent drama.

 

btw - when someone says no to a date, they don't need an excuse & they certainly don't have to explain themselves.

 

However, I would have been more than happy and dropped the issue. Yet, she came back with double force of signs?

 

Sometimes girls want to be..chased, as in, asked out again, to test your interest.

 

Atleast, thats been in my experience.

[TheTallOne]

@tankbark..

 

 

All decent advice, however... she was coming on hot and heavy with calling a ton, while wanting to take it slow. I tend to leave phone convos (espically long ones) with girls I am in a relationship with.... not ones that I am not. That is my preference anyway.

 

We were obviously not on the same page, at all.

 

 

 

I forgot to mention one thing.

 

The week before I gave the ultamatium.

 

I told her that it would be best if we ended the dating on good terms, rather than go forward, before one of us gets seriously hurt.

 

The next morning, I get a txt stating that she was already attached... and she didn't want to leave, but, whatever made me happy.

 

That was the final straw, and the push for me to get her to decide.

[tanbark813]

All decent advice, however... she was coming on hot and heavy with calling a ton, while wanting to take it slow. I tend to leave phone convos (espically long ones) with girls I am in a relationship with.... not ones that I am not. That is my preference anyway.

 

We were obviously not on the same page, at all.

 

That's fine, but her calling you all the time meant that she was the one doing the chasing. That's a good thing--even if the calling annoyed you--because it puts you in a position of power. As soon as you issued the ultimatum, you lost that advantage.

[TheTallOne]

That's fine, but her calling you all the time meant that she was the one doing the chasing. That's a good thing--even if the calling annoyed you--because it puts you in a position of power. As soon as you issued the ultimatum, you lost that advantage.

 

Is that all relationships are worth these days... power?

 

So much for equals.

[filarena]

First;

 

I was always told (and learned) not to put all your eggs in one basket. Hence me dating mutiple people at a time. Its just that I didn't want the chance of me getting into a relationship with another person.. and her coming back and saying "YOU NEVER TOLD ME!!!". I can see your point though, I just disagree with it.

 

Reasonable enough. I'm not trying to say you shouldn't do it, and I apologize for implying that. All I meant is that it's likely that from HER perspective you were sending mixed signals. She thought you were interested and couldn't understand why if you were you'd still be dating other girls. Not saying she's right to think it, but I'd bet money she did.

 

Second;

 

Yes, I do get that a lot. However, I really tell people that I am not interested in the hollywood stuff.. I just simply don't talk about it, as it doesn't interest me. I don't put people down (intelltionally), I tend to try to bring them back up, raise their self-esteem.

 

Like I said, I don't know how you actually talk to people. I may have been off on that point.

 

Although, if you do get that a lot, you may want to figure out why and if there's something you can do to avoid it...

[Citizen Erased]

This relationship was never going to be successful because everything was just too hard. The start of a relationship should be fun, not full of disappointment, mind games and a bit of Prick Teasing on her behalf. You obviously didnt have your priorities right because you were dating other people. If you wanted it to work then you would lay off on other women, no woman will respect you for keeping other women around just in case this one falls through!

 

Okay, the pay for dinner thing. I go half with my boyfriend NOW, but when you havent really started dating yet, be the gentleman and pay for her. Every girl wants a guy with manners, so use yours. Not enjoying Hollywood gossip and being interested in other intellectual subjects does not give you the right to play mind games or be rude.

 

You didnt answer her calls, you gave mixed signals and then you gave her an ultimatum? DUDE! she's young and wants to have fun, she doesnt need to be given the 'if you want to be with me, your only chance is now' sort of thing. You really should have waited, she obviously wasnt ready for a committment, so you have just pushed her away by forcing her to make a decision.

 

You do sound like a decent guy though so if you REALLY like this girl, then be the gentleman. Be a friend to her, dont pressure her into having a relationship. You cant force someone to have feelings for you, so take it slow. If you want a relationship NOW though, I suggest you find someone else because she is clearly not ready.

 

BTW, relationships should not all be about power, they should be about compromise and trust. People try to gain power by playing mind games and so it goes from being a potential relationship to just a joke.

[TheTallOne]

This relationship was never going to be successful because everything was just too hard. The start of a relationship should be fun, not full of disappointment, mind games and a bit of Prick Teasing on her behalf. You obviously didnt have your priorities right because you were dating other people. If you wanted it to work then you would lay off on other women, no woman will respect you for keeping other women around just in case this one falls through!

 

Wouldn't you agree that you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket however?

 

I learned along time ago, to avoid the "oneitis", that you should date other people, as it forces you to become non-clingy, and not acting insecure. Both are two huge turn offs to women.

 

If you date mutiple people, it increases the chance that you are going to find someone you like. I don't do it to be disrespectful or mean, I do it to protect myself.

 

Okay, the pay for dinner thing. I go half with my boyfriend NOW, but when you havent really started dating yet, be the gentleman and pay for her. Every girl wants a guy with manners, so use yours. Not enjoying Hollywood gossip and being interested in other intellectual subjects does not give you the right to play mind games or be rude.

 

I paid for both times we went out (even when her sister was along). I don't mind paying, I've just had a past where I've been used and abused in terms of cash.. but in the end, I generally do it anyway.

 

You didnt answer her calls, you gave mixed signals and then you gave her an ultimatum? DUDE! she's young and wants to have fun, she doesnt need to be given the 'if you want to be with me, your only chance is now' sort of thing. You really should have waited, she obviously wasnt ready for a committment, so you have just pushed her away by forcing her to make a decision.

 

I answered a good amount of calls. Majority of the missed calls was when I wasn't around the phone, as my job precludes me from carrying it around. I called her back the majority of the time, except when she was really getting upset.. I wanted to let her calm down and called her a few hours later. She just became very, very clingy... which made no sense to me as she wanted to take it slow?

 

You do sound like a decent guy though so if you REALLY like this girl, then be the gentleman. Be a friend to her, dont pressure her into having a relationship. You cant force someone to have feelings for you, so take it slow. If you want a relationship NOW though, I suggest you find someone else because she is clearly not ready.

 

I'd imgaine its too late now, espically when she is dating someone else. I think I mentioned above, she went from dating 0 people.. to dating me, to dating someone right after me. She could like him a lot more than me, which is truthfully fine.. I just wanted her to be happy. Maybe in a few months, after things get smoothed over, I'll talk to her again.

 

BTW, relationships should not all be about power, they should be about compromise and trust. People try to gain power by playing mind games and so it goes from being a potential relationship to just a joke.

 

I agree. I don't like power hungry women, and I don't really like submissive ones either. I like ones that are in the middle... those are my equal. Thats what I am looking for.....

 

Any input is always appreciated.

[TheTallOne]

Reasonable enough. I'm not trying to say you shouldn't do it, and I apologize for implying that. All I meant is that it's likely that from HER perspective you were sending mixed signals. She thought you were interested and couldn't understand why if you were you'd still be dating other girls. Not saying she's right to think it, but I'd bet money she did.

 

I understand. Thing is, I am stuck between a rock and hard place then, no? If I don't tell.. I am a liar and an abuser. If I do, then I am just a user looking for something easy.

 

Like I said, I don't know how you actually talk to people. I may have been off on that point.

 

Although, if you do get that a lot, you may want to figure out why and if there's something you can do to avoid it...

 

I tend to get it from people who are around my age, never people older than me. I think because I matured quicker than most people, I feel out of place... putting that type of "aura" around me.

 

Mind you, I am 21, she is going on 23 in a couple months. So, in fact.. she is older than me... and she has never told me that.

[Magister]

2. I don't think I should have put that type of pressure on her, but, what choice did I have? She was swamping me hard.. I have no problem with taking it slow, however, NO progress was made. She took the level of communicating to the level of a relationship, which she didn't want. Hence, she wants what a relationship has, minus the commitment. I have no problem with chatting every once in awhile (I do that with girls who I do date... but at a slower level then she did), however.. I think she went overboard.

The first part is mostly my assesment of the situation (which I've used to decide what advice to give), skip it if your in a hurry.

 

Your post suggests to me that you have been thinking with abstractions for so long that you've forgotten they are abstractions. (Don't take that as a criticism, it is just an observation because thinking with abstractions is the usual source of confusion.) Why? Because while you say you were interested in a "relationship," you never explained what you think a relationship is. I think you've described a number of different concepts as relationships. Of course, every person has a slightly different idea of what a relationship is, but, when you accuse her of wanting "what a relationship has, minus the commitment," are you sure your understanding of relationships is closer to the shared understanding than hers is?

 

I don't know anyone who thinks that you have to sit down and have a conversation and conclude that "Now X relationship exists between us" for any basic relationship to exist. The line between being in a relationship and not being in one is fairly hazy because at the simplest, most basic level relationships almost seem to form themselves. So, this is the way I see it. By the time of, probably, your third date/time with her you were in a relationship with her (of some form or another) because a pattern had been establish. You ask her out, she says yes, y'all go out, and both of you have fun (or at least try to). You liked that simple relationship, but the idea of her seeing someone else bothers you (you want a more security). You tell her you've been seeing other girls, but you're willing to "commit" if she is. And (surprise) she isn't exactly thrilled at the offer.

 

What I think you did wrong is when you told her you were still seeing other girls. Why? Because the fact that felt you had to tell her suggests you had already realized you were in a relationship. (If not at the time, you probably realize that now, right?) My suggestion is, next time you are dating a girl (i.e. you have established a pattern of going out with her) and you don't want her to date anyone else, you need to say 4 things to her. (Word it the best you can.) That you enjoy spending time with her. That you don't want to go out with anyone else. And, though you know you haven't talked to her about it before, her going out with someone else would bother you. Remind her that you know y'all haven't talked about this before. And then let her know that you aren't going to hate her or cut her off if she says she doesn't want that. (And mean it.) And if she says no deal, be disappointed, but realize that her decision has less to do with you and more to do with her.

[TheTallOne]

The first part is mostly my assesment of the situation (which I've used to decide what advice to give), skip it if your in a hurry.

 

Your post suggests to me that you have been thinking with abstractions for so long that you've forgotten they are abstractions. (Don't take that as a criticism, it is just an observation because thinking with abstractions is the usual source of confusion.) Why? Because while you say you were interested in a "relationship," you never explained what you think a relationship is. I think you've described a number of different concepts as relationships. Of course, every person has a slightly different idea of what a relationship is, but, when you accuse her of wanting "what a relationship has, minus the commitment," are you sure your understanding of relationships is closer to the shared understanding than hers is?

 

To be brutally honest, I dunno. I never asked her what a relationship is to her.. just from my experience however, the majority of dates I go on.. tend to be slow/laid back. The people I date, we would get together when we could, go out.. and have fun. If anything materialized from then, then so be it.

However, this girl said she wanted to take things slow (not a problem for me..), yet, she upped the level of involvement. She became.. clingy. Its ok to be somewhat clingy in a relationship, but, just when dating?

 

She sent a mixed signal on that. She didn't want to be in a relationship per say (she said that), yet.. she acted like she wanted one/but didn't want to call it a relationship.

 

I don't know anyone who thinks that you have to sit down and have a conversation and conclude that "Now X relationship exists between us" for any basic relationship to exist. The line between being in a relationship and not being in one is fairly hazy because at the simplest, most basic level relationships almost seem to form themselves. So, this is the way I see it. By the time of, probably, your third date/time with her you were in a relationship with her (of some form or another) because a pattern had been establish. You ask her out, she says yes, y'all go out, and both of you have fun (or at least try to). You liked that simple relationship, but the idea of her seeing someone else bothers you (you want a more security). You tell her you've been seeing other girls, but you're willing to "commit" if she is. And (surprise) she isn't exactly thrilled at the offer.

 

According to her however, we were not in a relationship, we were just dating. She said it verbally.. thats why I said that she likes all the aspects of dating/relationship, however, she doesn't like commitment/being tied down. Unfortunately, I can't really make a serious emotional commitment to someone if I am not in a relationship with them, it sets myself for a huge, huge let down... Thats why I had no problem with her saying "Lets take it slow", I had a problem with her saying lets take it slow THEN not actually taking it slow.

 

What I think you did wrong is when you told her you were still seeing other girls. Why? Because the fact that felt you had to tell her suggests you had already realized you were in a relationship. (If not at the time, you probably realize that now, right?) My suggestion is, next time you are dating a girl (i.e. you have established a pattern of going out with her) and you don't want her to date anyone else, you need to say 4 things to her. (Word it the best you can.) That you enjoy spending time with her. That you don't want to go out with anyone else. And, though you know you haven't talked to her about it before, her going out with someone else would bother you. Remind her that you know y'all haven't talked about this before. And then let her know that you aren't going to hate her or cut her off if she says she doesn't want that. (And mean it.) And if she says no deal, be disappointed, but realize that her decision has less to do with you and more to do with her.

 

I agree, I don't think telling her would have been the wisest idea. However, I was stuck in a bad situation. Either I could be upfront, or.. let her find out later.

 

I told her after our first date however, not after 3-4... This was still, way way in the dating scene.

 

The last part is decent advice, I'll remember that.

[ms_jnj]

 

3. Girls in their early 20's are immature as a general rule. The meeting up with the ex and emotional instability is par for the course. You would probably get along better if you dated girls in their 30's. I've dated girls who were 7 - 10 years older than me and got along great with them.

 

 

I agree with this.

 

Although I am a girl in my early 20s, and I am the exception to the rule. I don't think I'm better than my peers or anything, just different. I feel like I left all that crap behind in high school for whatever reason. But I have the same problem as the OP, except not quite --I cannot find any MEN in their 20 (early or late) that are not immature. I'd really like to date men in their 20s, but am coming to the conclusion that I'm going to have to start aiming for the 30s. I too like to go out and have fun, and I can't think of anyone that would call me uptight, but I'm also going to graduate school and holding down a job, so I'm not so into the party scene every night like so many of my peers are. Besides...that all gets pretty boring after a while. (To me anyway).

 

So anyway, my point in that....there are more mature women out there, they are just not the first ones you notice.

 

...and about the current girl, as others have said...let it go. She probably wasn't sure about you, she liked you but wasn't sure she wanted to commit herself, expecially since it looks like you offended her a few times right from the get-go. And also, sometimes girls this age just plain don't know what they want and you have to be patient.

 

And also, as said previously, it is not a good idea to inform a girl that you are dating others --it is considered rude in the world of dating. She probably assumes you are, after all if you aren't in a relationship it is quite probably that you are leaving your options open. But the unspoken rule of dating is to keep your status with dating other people to yourself. Also I'm sure it came off as quite rude and demanding when you asked her to pay before the date. Also previously mentioned, it is a great sign if she asks to split the bill or reaches for her purse on the date, but you would be offended if some girl said she'd only go out with you if you paid...it comes off as rude.

 

But anyway everyone makes mistakes. Sounds like you made some mistakes and she made some mistakes. Probably time to let this particular gal go. And if you're looking for someone that knows what they want and is mature --look carefully, because those type of girls at that age probably aren't dancing on the bar on a Monday night or lying around sunning themselves by the pool in their thong bikinis.

 

Good luck!

[TheTallOne]

I agree with this.

 

Although I am a girl in my early 20s, and I am the exception to the rule. I don't think I'm better than my peers or anything, just different. I feel like I left all that crap behind in high school for whatever reason. But I have the same problem as the OP, except not quite --I cannot find any MEN in their 20 (early or late) that are not immature. I'd really like to date men in their 20s, but am coming to the conclusion that I'm going to have to start aiming for the 30s. I too like to go out and have fun, and I can't think of anyone that would call me uptight, but I'm also going to graduate school and holding down a job, so I'm not so into the party scene every night like so many of my peers are. Besides...that all gets pretty boring after a while. (To me anyway).

 

Ahhhh, I am not alone here!

 

Can you relocate to the NE?

 

But anyway everyone makes mistakes. Sounds like you made some mistakes and she made some mistakes. Probably time to let this particular gal go. And if you're looking for someone that knows what they want and is mature --look carefully, because those type of girls at that age probably aren't dancing on the bar on a Monday night or lying around sunning themselves by the pool in their thong bikinis.

 

Good luck!

 

I avoid bars, parties etc just for that reason. Because.. you generally will not find the "mature" young women there. I tend to look for girls at college.. in libraries and such, as they're trying to better themselves by studying/getting work done. (very attractive in my mind)

 

Even though.. I do like eye candy sometimes.

[Magister]

I told her after our first date however, not after 3-4... This was still, way way in the dating scene.

 

I had wondered about that. In the OP you said that you told her while you were dating her, you were continuing to see other girls. But you had only mentioned one date. As an additional word of advice, when you ask a girl out, you need to get your mind away from the eventualities (dating, sex, marriage, whatever) and concentrate on just the date. (If she says she isn't really interested in dating (going on a series of dates with you), remind her you only offered *a* date. If you try to talk her into changing her mind about dating you--i.e. you make the offer into not just one date but a series of them--and she does eventually change her mind and go out with you, you are dating. Even if it is your first date.) You don't need to worry about problems that might arise later. Would you ask a girl you had never been out with to marry you? Do you think she would say yes? Take your time and do things in stages. Get her to agree to a date. Later, get her to agree to a second one. After that, get her to agree to another one. Continue to do that until you realize, "Hey, we're dating."

 

To be brutally honest, I dunno. I never asked her what a relationship is to her.. just from my experience however, the majority of dates I go on.. tend to be slow/laid back. The people I date, we would get together when we could, go out.. and have fun. If anything materialized from then, then so be it.

However, this girl said she wanted to take things slow (not a problem for me..), yet, she upped the level of involvement. She became.. clingy. Its ok to be somewhat clingy in a relationship, but, just when dating?

 

You mean if you like someone is it okay to act like you like them after one date? Sure, if acting that way comes naturally and is unforced.

 

She sent a mixed signal on that. She didn't want to be in a relationship per say (she said that), yet.. she acted like she wanted one/but didn't want to call it a relationship.

 

The likely truth here is, while you were trying to get her to commit, she already had, but maybe not to the exact relationship you were thinking of. That is why her idea of what a relationship is is important.

 

According to her however, we were not in a relationship, we were just dating. She said it verbally.. thats why I said that she likes all the aspects of dating/relationship, however, she doesn't like commitment/being tied down.

 

What she says is rather unimportant when looking back on this. Why? For one thing, she said she wasn't interested in dating, then she changed her mind. But also because you initiated the whole thing. She went out with you and then she went out with you again. I believe she would have agreed to exclusivity, but you sent the wrong message and she pulled back. You see, "Just Dating" is a relationship--because there is a pattern there. (I'm not going to launch into a grammar lesson, but taking it into account does help avoid confusion, though, words being what they are, some confusion is unavoidable. Just something to think about.) Marriage is a relationship too. But "Just Dating" and Marriage are not the same thing even though they are both a relationship. She may understand what you mean when you say "a relationship," then again she may not. That's why you shouldn't try to reason or talk your way into a relationship with someone. Getting into a conversation about commitment with someone you aren't in a relationship with is really putting the cart before the horse.

 

Thats why I had no problem with her saying "Lets take it slow", I had a problem with her saying lets take it slow THEN not actually taking it slow.

 

Not really sure what that means so I skipped it. But I wonder how you determined whether she was actually taking it slow or not.

 

I agree, I don't think telling her would have been the wisest idea. However, I was stuck in a bad situation. Either I could be upfront, or.. let her find out later.

 

The last part is decent advice, I'll remember that.

 

What was bad about your situation? You went out with her one time and now you have to start confessing betraying a relationship that didn't even exist?

What would she have found out, that before you had started dating you had gone on dates with other girls?

 

Oh, and...

 

Unfortunately, I can't really make a serious emotional commitment to someone if I am not in a relationship with them, it sets myself for a huge, huge let down...

 

Taking that attitude doesn't help you avoid a huge letdown. It just burns a bridge you might have to cross later. It isn't as if people can't lie. Or she couldn't change her mind. If you really want commitment, you need to commit yourself first and just keep the relationship alive until you feel like she has commited too. Then take my advice on how to have that conversation.

 

If you feel only going out with only her is a sacrifice, her saying "I commit" won't change your mind. You, yourself, aren't ready to commit until you at least consider going out with her the best possible choice and going out with some other girl a substitue.

[Magister]

And if you're looking for someone that knows what they want and is mature --look carefully, because those type of girls at that age probably aren't dancing on the bar on a Monday night

 

Probably not.

 

or lying around sunning themselves by the pool in their thong bikinis.

 

Good luck!

 

You'd be surprised. Libraries are fine, but only if you meet in the fiction sections. Even then be careful. The library usually contain more than a few feminist strongholds.

[ms_jnj]

Ahhhh, I am not alone here!

 

Can you relocate to the NE?

 

 

 

I avoid bars, parties etc just for that reason. Because.. you generally will not find the "mature" young women there. I tend to look for girls at college.. in libraries and such, as they're trying to better themselves by studying/getting work done. (very attractive in my mind)

 

Even though.. I do like eye candy sometimes.

 

Hmmm...I think YOU should relocate to the west coast. It's nice out here, trust me Huh I wish some guy would pick me up when I was studying at the library or browsing in a book store. And I think all guys like the eye candy....as do most women, lol.

[cygny]

basically i think what happened is clear in the first exchange you mentioned. she told you she had been hurt in the past by jerks. so, then you behaved like a jerk does. she couldn't trust you, so rather than risk getting hurt, it became this weird set of interactions instead of a relationship. you never showed her that she could trust you and feel safe with you. so she decided she couldn't be with you.

 

that's my take anyway.

 

oh, and one more thing to point out--you started this thread asking for how you could improve, and then when everyone told you how, instead of accepting what they were saying or trying to see what they were trying to say by looking at it from a different perspective, you came up with counterarguments. i think it kind of mirrors the interaction you had with this girl-dealing with issues with only your head. i'm not saying it's bad to challenge things, but for instance your insistence on dating other women would feed right into the trust issues this girl had. basically your answer is staring you in the face right there. my question to you is why can't you see that? were you not listening to what she said to you at all? or didn't you take it seriously? same with the date/pay issue. jerk behavior from a player's manual. you need to learn how to empathize--put yourself in someone else's place and be sensitive to their emotional state. to 'feel' your way in relationships and how you should treat people based on their particularity rather than a manual. this was a woman who liked you but never felt safe with you because you were following too many rules or ploys, when you should have been showing genuine interest in her and treating her well, if you wanted her.

 

FWIW, i think i used to be like this somewhat. and yes, i am more a serious, intellectual type too. we can 'think' our way out of relationships, literally. instead of "being" in them.

[TheTallOne]

basically i think what happened is clear in the first exchange you mentioned. she told you she had been hurt in the past by jerks. so, then you behaved like a jerk does. she couldn't trust you, so rather than risk getting hurt, it became this weird set of interactions instead of a relationship. you never showed her that she could trust you and feel safe with you. so she decided she couldn't be with you.

 

First.. thanks for the response.

 

Second, with regards to the quote above;

 

She told me the jerk comment when I first asked her out. I never persued her after that, truthfully. She came full blown at me, she chased me, contacted me.. showed up at my work etc. She would send txts about being in a bikini at the pool, and wondering when I would stop by to see her. In other words.. she liked the attention of being asked out, and she upped the anty of being a tease. I then asked her out again, after a few weeks of "enduring" this, she at first said no.. then she said she would think about it. From there on, is when we started dating. If she hadn't done any type of chasing after I asked her out (like some women do when they truly have no interest), I would have never asked her out again.. thinking she trully wasn't interested. However, she started sending me the mixed signals.

 

my question to you is why can't you see that? were you not listening to what she said to you at all? or didn't you take it seriously?

 

She never really told me anything directly, that was an issue I had with her. She always had to talk to someone else.. and that would get filtered through me. I find it attractive when people can speak to me with problems, not complain/get upset with other people.

 

same with the date/pay issue. jerk behavior from a player's manual. you need to learn how to empathize--put yourself in someone else's place and be sensitive to their emotional state. to 'feel' your way in relationships and how you should treat people based on their particularity rather than a manual. this was a woman who liked you but never felt safe with you because you were following too many rules or ploys, when you should have been showing genuine interest in her and treating her well, if you wanted her.

 

I think (in my opinion) it was more influation.. rather than real interest. Looking back now, I don't think she was interested in getting into a relationship.. but more of enjoying the time dating. Which I respect, but she should have been upfront about it.

 

I judge a interest (in me personally) on a girls part when she asks me questions about myself.. likes, dislikes etc. This girl didn't, she was more interested in talking about herself (I call it "fluff" talk.. not real down to earth stuff), then learning anything about me. I would ask questions about her etc.. seeing if I could get her to react back to me, no go. She would ask how I was etc, but never about me personally.

 

It was hard for me to put myself in her emotional state.. as I never understood as to why on earth she was calling.. and when she couldn't get in touch with me, crying on the phone! We weren't in a relationship.. there is no need to be so clingy about it. Espically when she said that she wanted to take things slow.. "a day at a time". Mixed singals galore.

 

I challenge what people say, as thats how I learn. I have to understand what they are saying, in order for me to learn from it... many people give different pieces of advice, how do I know which one is the best? I ask questions related, and go from there. I know it comes across as I am not to be defensive and not learn.. but its just the opposite.

 

FWIW, i think i used to be like this somewhat. and yes, i am more a serious, intellectual type too. we can 'think' our way out of relationships, literally. instead of "being" in them.

 

No kiddin... it does give me a headache sometimes.

 

 

I think the bottomline is here.. I should have never re-asked her out again, and just told her to knock off the dick teasing, as its annoying and disrespectful. Thats the major lesson here that I have learned.

[cygny]

she was calling because she felt chemistry with you, was interested in you, and was testing you to see if she could trust you. try to imagine getting screwed around and your heart stomped on by a couple of jerks and what that must feel like to a woman. and how you might then deal with the whole dating issue when you found someone that you connected with.

 

obviously you connected with her too or you would never have pressed her for the relationship with the ultimatum.