Woggle Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 You hear alll the time how men don't understand women and there is some truth to that but I don't think women understand men anymore than we understand them. I hear all the time these misconceptions about us and these stereotypes which are just not true. Outcast posted a thread about 20/20 program where a woman went undercover as a man and much of it rang true.
Outcast Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Wog, how can women understand men if men keep up the faux macho 'strong silent type' image and don't talk about themselves? This is why the whole BS about 'men being men' is only hurting men in general. It's not wimpy or wussy to talk about being a human with feelings but until we rid ourselves of the stupid and outdated notion that men have to be 'strong' for women, men aren't free to BE understood! You can't have it both ways. Men and women have to treat each other as equal partners - each allowed to need to lean on the other from time to time. It's a much healthier way of life for both genders! 1
lilmoma1973 Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 I agree Woggle neither men or women understand one another.. If they did there would be less divorce rate.. Great post:)
a4a Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Wog, how can women understand men if men keep up the faux macho 'strong silent type' image and don't talk about themselves? This is why the whole BS about 'men being men' is only hurting men in general. It's not wimpy or wussy to talk about being a human with feelings but until we rid ourselves of the stupid and outdated notion that men have to be 'strong' for women, men aren't free to BE understood! You can't have it both ways. Men and women have to treat each other as equal partners - each allowed to need to lean on the other from time to time. It's a much healthier way of life for both genders! Outcast I could not agree more but with one exception...... men have to be 'strong' for women, I think many men think they have too look strong in the other eyes of men as well. The "Cool Factor". I think more divorce takes place because people are not honest about their expectations and think they have the right to change their partners to fit their needs/expectations...... that just does not work. a4a- ahhhh........ coffeeeeeeee
slubberdegullion Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Though I didn't see the 20/20 program in which a woman dressed up as a guy for 18 months and "infiltrated male culture," I found the website for the show and read through the transcript. This part of it really hit home: Vincent said the dates were rarely fun and that the pressure of "Ned" having to prove himself was grueling. She was surprised that many women had no interest in a soft, vulnerable man. "My prejudice was that the ideal man is a woman in a man's body. And I learned, no, that's really not. There are a lot of women out there who really want a manly man, and they want his stoicism," she said. No wonder guys are confused about women!
alphamale Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 You hear alll the time how men don't understand women and there is some truth to that but I don't think women understand men anymore than we understand them. . I agree WOGGLE....funny thing is that women want men to learn and know about women but when it comes to educating themselves about men they fall short.
jen_jen_heartbroken Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Why should women have to understand men? They're defective anyway, and wear their sensitive parts on the outside (poor engineering, if you ask me). And they have no feelings. Heartless robots.
alphamale Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Why should women have to understand men? because And they have no feelings. Heartless robots. once we start to show our feelings and emotions too much then women label us as "weak" and "defective" and "effeminate"
jen_jen_heartbroken Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 once we start to show our feelings and emotions too much then women label us as "weak" and "defective" and "effeminate" Not all women. Not one who really loves her man.
lindya Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 I think it's useful to understand stereotypical standards as to what a man should be. Clearly many men feel under pressure to meet those standards, just as women find it difficult to escape from certain notions about femininity. For me, and with regard to a partner, my main concern would be "is he being true to himself, or is he trying to be someone/something that goes totally against his natural temperament?" If he falls into the latter category, then it's going to be very difficult to respect him. There are many different types of a "man" - in the same way that a woman can be feminine in 100 different ways. If someone doesn't like your particular brand of manliness or femininity, or doesn't want to understand why you don't fit into their preconceived notions of manliness/femininity, perhaps the only thing to do is to move on from them. No point in spending your life trying to squeeze into a mould that is completely the wrong shape for you.
Roo-bie2 Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I think one of the reasons why men and women have troubles is that they think differently. Modern brain science shows how man and women process emotions different and why! We don’t take into account for each others hormones and how they effect emotion process. As a woman I see myself and women expect men to process emotions just as fast and the same way as women do. Men’s brains aren’t design this way. In some ways I think 100 years ago people “understood”/”excepted” these gender different when society just accept the differences as being said gender. I agree many women don’t understand men because they belittle their differences and their issues.
Curmudgeon Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 The Strength of a Man -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The strength of a man isn't seen in the width of his shoulders. It is seen in the width of his arms that encircle you. The strength of a man isn't in the deep tone of his voice. It is in the gentle words he whispers. The strength of a man isn't how many buddies he has. It is how good a buddy he is with his kids. The strength of a man isn't in how respected he is at work. It is in how respected he is at home. The strength of a man isn't in how hard he hits. It is in how tender he touches. The strength of a man isn't in the hair on his chest. It is in his heart that lies within his chest. The strength of a man isn't in the weight he can lift. It is in the burdens he can understand and overcome. The strength of a man isn't how many women he's loved. It is in can he be true to one woman. Not exactly the stereotypical man image, is it? There's nothing wrong with a man being tender, feeling, emotional or any of the other attributes that make him a real person. In my mind, that takes far more strength than machismo bluster and bravado. I'm blessed to have a wife with whom I can be me during moments of strength as well as moments of weakness. That she understands and loves me is all that I ask or need.
Becoming Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I saw this documentary on a woman becoming a man that was most interesting. She started taking all the hormone shots and keeping a diary. Toward the end of the treatment, he reflected that he no longer thought about things in the same way. He loved feeling stronger due to more muscle mass. He realized his emotions were no longer the same--that things that had bother him as a her no longer even affected him. He'd never even have noticed had it not been that there was the memory of an emotionality that was no longer present. It was like, "I know I should care, but I don't, and it's really liberating." It made me realize how affected we are by hormones. Pretty interesting.
helena abadi Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 The Strength of a Man -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The strength of a man isn't seen in the width of his shoulders. It is seen in the width of his arms that encircle you. The strength of a man isn't in the deep tone of his voice. It is in the gentle words he whispers. The strength of a man isn't how many buddies he has. It is how good a buddy he is with his kids. The strength of a man isn't in how respected he is at work. It is in how respected he is at home. The strength of a man isn't in how hard he hits. It is in how tender he touches. The strength of a man isn't in the hair on his chest. It is in his heart that lies within his chest. The strength of a man isn't in the weight he can lift. It is in the burdens he can understand and overcome. The strength of a man isn't how many women he's loved. It is in can he be true to one woman. .. oh, that's really, really nice. i like that a lot.
hooghie Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 "My prejudice was that the ideal man is a woman in a man's body. And I learned, no, that's really not. There are a lot of women out there who really want a manly man, and they want his stoicism," she said. Is this really a surprise??? I think we understand men pretty well. It's not like we are shocked when we hear that men actually prefer girls to look & act like - well - girls.
witabix Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 The Strength of a Man -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The strength of a man isn't seen in the width of his shoulders. It is seen in the width of his arms that encircle you. The strength of a man isn't in the deep tone of his voice. It is in the gentle words he whispers. The strength of a man isn't how many buddies he has. It is how good a buddy he is with his kids. The strength of a man isn't in how respected he is at work. It is in how respected he is at home. The strength of a man isn't in how hard he hits. It is in how tender he touches. The strength of a man isn't in the hair on his chest. It is in his heart that lies within his chest. The strength of a man isn't in the weight he can lift. It is in the burdens he can understand and overcome. The strength of a man isn't how many women he's loved. It is in can he be true to one woman. Cool post. However I feel that the 'not' parts are in some way required to be present, for OTHER men, all the 'is' parts wouldn't work the whole time with my guy friends. Although I do admit to having put my arms around my guy friends when they are suffering. Men are forced, more than women IMO, to be a duality. Strong and soft, etc. Many men find this societal/personal cuality very difficult to get right. A nurturing woman can be nurturing at work as well as at home, if you see what I mean. My thoughts anyway.
Becoming Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Men are forced, more than women IMO, to be a duality. Strong and soft, etc. Many men find this societal/personal cuality very difficult to get right. A nurturing woman can be nurturing at work as well as at home, if you see what I mean. Yes, but she won't be promoted. And if she's not nurturing, she's a bytch. I actually had a psychologist advocate being a kind of split person with the soft side for home, the hard side for work. This seemed off for me at the time, but I'm not sure now. I think US society is pretty schizoid. Can't we be a little more holistic here? I think the problem is that we're in a Reconstruction period when it comes to gender roles. Women didn't learn all the boys' games that structure business and public life. Men didn't learn how to show emotions or make a space of hospitality for others. Now we're both being called to double train, and it's tough on everyone concerned, I think. I don't really understand men, I'll admit. I like 'em. Wish I could be a bit more like them, but they're an intriguing mystery to me.
jen_jen_heartbroken Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 There are no good men. A smart woman won't look for a relationship with a man, she'll adopt a cat instead. Meow.
Outcast Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Jen, ok we get it. You're mad and bitter. Don't make me lecture you the way I have to lecture the misogynists. Ditch the jerk and get a good one.
jen_jen_heartbroken Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 All I'm saying is men aren't wired as effective relationship material. Again, poor engineering. But they're good for building things and fetching meat. I'm just saying if a woman wants a loyal, trustworthy, good listener, great cuddler, who will love them unconditionally, then get a cat and she'll spare herself the crushing blow of being rejected by a man who is biologically incapable of giving her those things.
lindya Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I'm just saying if a woman wants a loyal, trustworthy, good listener, great cuddler, who will love them unconditionally, then get a cat and she'll spare herself the crushing blow of being rejected by a man who is biologically incapable of giving her those things. Cats are loyal?? I have yet to meet a creature that's more riddled with narcissism, self-interest, disloyalty and shameless cupboard love. Sorry to burst your bubble, jjh, but when the cat is staring meditatively at you, it's not thinking "Love of my life, light of my soul...how I adore thee!" It's thinking "there's quite a bit of crap building up in my litter tray. Go and clean it out, peasant....and after that I may deign to eat some raw fillet steak."
jen_jen_heartbroken Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 And when a man says, "Love of my life, light of my soul...how I adore thee!", what he's really thinking is, "Get to thee bedroom bitch...I need sex now."
Ms_Sweetness Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 And when a man says, "Love of my life, light of my soul...how I adore thee!", what he's really thinking is, "Get to thee bedroom bitch...I need sex now." LMAO, this is so funny but soooo true!! At one point I felt like I "thought like a man" in that I stopped caring about things, I stopped letting anything bother me, I would just brush everything off. That didn't last too long though.
lindya Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 And when a man says, "Love of my life, light of my soul...how I adore thee!", what he's really thinking is, "Get to thee bedroom bitch...I need sex now." Exactly! So why would you rather have a cat?
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