Author onemoreday Posted January 24, 2006 Author Posted January 24, 2006 Ok, so let me get this right, if I'm wrong about this plz let me know, k? He is trying to get his W to come out and talk about the problems they had b4 his A so she can finally realize the M isn't worth trying to save, that it was never good even b4 you came along? W/ him trying to convince her of this it's his way of making her think that since the M was doomed b4 you there is no reason to be upset about the A, or the D? Exactly. This is what he and I speak about constantly, His intentions. He has made it very clear that he needs to at least try to get his wife to calm down and see the issues that they had in the past. He does not want her to continue to blame me for everything. He knows that our future is going to be riddled with issues because of the way our relationship began and all the hurt we have caused, but he wants to try to control the amount of damage our being together is going to cause. He is concerned for his daughter. That is why I am in this state of uncertainty. If he was telling me something other than this i would be more skeptical.
BUTAFLY Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Exactly. This is what he and I speak about constantly, His intentions. He has made it very clear that he needs to at least try to get his wife to calm down and see the issues that they had in the past. He does not want her to continue to blame me for everything. He knows that our future is going to be riddled with issues because of the way our relationship began and all the hurt we have caused, but he wants to try to control the amount of damage our being together is going to cause. He is concerned for his daughter. That is why I am in this state of uncertainty. If he was telling me something other than this i would be more skeptical. THis is the same excuse we all heard. your MM just added more sugar so you would swallow it easier. Take away all the niceities and its the same story. I don't blame you for believing him, we all want to believe. I tellya what....I give him an A+ for a creative spin.
Author onemoreday Posted January 24, 2006 Author Posted January 24, 2006 KnowHowLovefells I can't seem to find the OW/OM forum. Where is it?
magda Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Does he tell you that he is not sleeping with his wife? I think I find that hard to believe. A woman doesn't "hang on" to a man who is not showing any interest in her anymore. A woman doesn't make demands like seeing the cell phone bill and going to counseling if he hasn't touched her in months. Much like you keep hanging on because he gives you hope and gives you a story with a reason why you should, the same is most probably true for her. You posted in your opening post that you think you should leave this guy and see what happens. Just about everyone who has replied has agreed with that and yet you keep arguing the point. So good luck... it's hard to do. I hope someday soon you realize that you you're compromising yourself by staying true to this guy.
BUTAFLY Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Onemoreday, women here have been where you are right know...hopeful, in love, and blind. All we want to do is warn you and save you from the inevitable pain. My man was so slick and crafty just like yours. He was so charming and would cover me with kisses and lies which sounded so believable it made it impossible for me to stay mad at him for long.
Author onemoreday Posted January 24, 2006 Author Posted January 24, 2006 I know you are trying to help. I appreciate it. That is why I posted my issue. It's just so difficult to imagine that this person who I have spent so much time with is so deceptive and cruel. I have seen the way he treats his daughter, his mother, even his wife. He seems like a genuine and caring person who had an affair that turned into much more than he ever expected. If I am such a poor judge of character how can I even think of ever trusting another man again. I have had relationships in the past, and I've met some wonderful men, but I've never felt quite the way I do about this one. It's the reciprocity that draws me in. The sharing of feelings and affection. Its the hours on the telephone talking about important beliefs, feeling or just talking. The way he talks about his daughter and the interaction I hear between him and her is real. I can't imagine that this man can be so cold and calculating. My gut tells me otherwise, but I know I could be wrong. That is my biggest fear. I'm completely in love with this man and have made a ton of personal sacrifices to be with him. I'm not desperate. I could find an available man that is not married, but unfortunately my MM has so many qualities that I find important. Our attraction to each other and our similarities are what got us here in the first place. We spent over two months talking and having platonic meetings before we started the A. I fell in love with him early on. If he wasn't who I think he is I would not be here. All of this scares me. I'm taking everyones advise and internalizing it, but I'm having a difficult time making a decision. I don't know if I am ready to walk away, especially when he is asking me not to. I wish I had a crystal ball and could see into the future. Anyone one have one that I could borrow...ha..ha.
JustMakeMeBelieve Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I'm scared to lose him. How can you lose what you don't have? HONEY, THIS IS SO TRUE. RUN, I SAY, RUN AWAY, FAR AWAY FROM THIS MAN. HE WILL NEVER EVER DIVORCE HER, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE AN EXCUSE AND 18 YEARS FROM NOW, YOU WILL HEAR, "I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THEY FINISH SCHOOL"
BUTAFLY Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I am such a poor judge of character how can I even think of ever trusting another man again. I have went over this statement in my head 100 x's. Please realize your not a bad judge of character, you have met & befriended many people in your life that have not hurt you in this way. It is him, you love the man he presents himself to be. I'm sure he has everyone fooled, this is what they do. What do you think he is telling his wife? Im sure he is telling her what she wants/needs to hear as he is doing with you. giving you both enough just to keep you satisfied and hanging on. My MM is a deacon,(People think he is the best thing since sliced bread as did I) and was engaged when we were going out. when I found out about this I broke up with him and he would tell me, "I not going to let you brake up with me, i love you & I need you." I justified it as your doing. I thought well maybe he will brake off the engagement because he wants to be with me. Well he used me up till he didnt need me anymore. I was fulfiling something that he was needing at that time. Which makes me think thats why your MM is not Divorcing his wife, he understands this maybe a rough patch in his relationship and his holding out for a reconciliation with his W. In the meanwhile he needs his ego stroked, he needs to know someone cares for him, make love to him, look at him the way you do w/ adoring eyes. When his wife desides she wants him back...you better believe thats where he is gonna go. And you will be left wondering what happened. Men are not like women, they can turn their emotions on and off when need be. Not saying his feelings arent genuine, its just convenient.
Banana Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I'm scared to lose him. I've dedicated a lot of time to this man. We have a strong connection. I know..I know you've heard that before. He does tell me that he loves me and wouldn't be putting everything at risk if he didn't. We both married for the wrong reasons, which became much more apparant when we met eachother. We have tried to break up in the past but it has never lasted for more than a couple of weeks. I'm afraid that this time with be no different and I will only put myself through the agony of losing him. The only thing I can say is that I'm started to hate him for having me in this state of limbo for so long. His baby is turning 2 in a month. I know he will not do anything before that. Do I wait until after her birthday to leave? This is a hard one, I hung around for almost 4 years before he got the **** or get off the pot thing, even then I had to go to his wife to get that done. I just wanted him to make a decision. He did, he stayed with his wife. During the 4 years, he moved his family to the town that I lived in, even served her with divorce papers, recinded that and then moved out or town and then moved back because he "loved me". About 8 or so months after they had been back, nothing had changed and I just wanted him to make a decision. So difficult when kids are involved. I told his wife what had been going on, he wouldn't speak to me, and they left town within 3 months. Well it's been 2 years and we're talking again, and they will be moving back in about 3 weeks. I'm helping them find a rental.....we aren't allowed to be alone together, although it was never about sex anyway.
My_Other_I Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I must disagree with the posters saying that he is using her. Noone knows what's going on through MM's head; I kinda doubt that he knows himself. Also, she has her own brains to decide whether to stay or walk. He doesn't have her on the leash, she if free to walk anytime she chooses to. It is a hard walk, but the option is there. He probably does love her, as he loves his wife. He has built a life together with his wife. It is a comfort and a safety zone. Just think about how many of us would really be willing to give years and years up? It is a very hard thing to do. If kids and other family is involved, the pressure is unbearable. The MM usually stays with the W (and probably dreams about being with the OW:rolleyes: ) I do agree that his actions are wrong. He should choose/decide (for whatever reasons to stay with whomever - staying in the M doesn't mean he doesn't love you, onemoreday) and stop torturing his loved-ones. But rarely does that happen. You do need to trust your judgement. You, and you only, need to decide whether or not you want to believe us, here on LS, who only read your side of story. There is much more into your life then few paragraphs we see. We cannot see the truth through the Internet. All the feedbacks are good for your thought stimulation. Questioning is good. But please, be sure to make your own decision based on your life and situation. *HUGS* MOI
Author onemoreday Posted January 25, 2006 Author Posted January 25, 2006 Does anyone really know how often MM leave the W or don't leave the W ? I'm not looking to comfort myself, I'm just very curious. When men have long term emotional affairs and the W finds out do most of the MM stay with the W? I can't imagine that the BS every gets over the A. It seems to me that once that trust is betrayed the marriage is broken. It would take a lot of work from the M and W to make the marraige work. Or do these MM sit around an do the same thing over and over again until the BS has enough. How many of the MM leave the W for the OW? The majority of the people in this forum, I'm assuming, have been the OW and have been hurt by the MM who has not left the W, but how many OWs have ended up with the MM? There are so many divorces these days. Almost half of all marriages end in divorce. I'm assuming that a lot of them end because of an A. You have to be really miserable to leave a M to be by yourself.
StrivingtoSucceed Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 With most of the posts I agree, you need to do what is best for you and you are the only one that can make the decision. IMHO it would be that you end it. However, from reading your emails you are confused because you don't know whether to believe him, or not. I don't think that is the issue, but you are stuck on it, which we all would be. We all have self-doubt and it affects our self-esteem so drastically that we start to question everything we do, everything we feel. But, to him, he is telling you the truth. He doesn't want to lose you. He does love you. He does want to be with you. All the things that he has said to that effect are more than likely true. BUT, he isn't ready to leave his wife, or the safety that it provides him. He has agreed to go to therapy with his wife, he has agreed to turn over cell phone records to her ... the only reason why I can think of that he would do that is because he is also trying to hang on to her. Hence, his comment to you that he is afraid to end the marriage, but he is also afraid of whether or not it would work out with you and him. He knows where his marriage is at. If his W "realizes" all that was wrong before you and changes, then he can move back in with his family (if he doesn't the guilt would kill him .... i.e., you say his daughter is the most important thing to him, if his wife changes as he has repeatedly asked ... then he would have to stay). He hasn't moved back in with his W b/c he is afraid she won't change those things he doesn't like. He doesn't know what real life would really be like with you because he hasn't experienced it. You are the unknown. Sometimes it is safer to stay with what you know, vs. what you don't know. I don't see the W, or him, making any changes in the near future. You are the only one that is actually in control of the situation, even though you don't see it. He isn't capable of making the decision and the wife obviously isn't ready to yet either and it may not have anything to do with her not being ready ... it may be b/c he isn't giving her clear signals that it is over for him ...I know you say that you think she is getting ready to end it b/c she has to be at the end of the rope like you are, but if that were the case, she wouldn't be asking for them to go to therapy together, or cell phone records. She wouldn't be asking for these things as proof unless he has been telling her that you and he are over. The therapy is probably her idea to work out their problems and if they find a good counselor, it might make them communicate better and stay together. Maybe it will and maybe it won't, but add the daughter into it and she will probably do all she can to make it work out ... even accept that he had an affair. Obviously he is doing all that he can to stay in his daughter's life to the point that he goes over there every night. I also agree with Mopar Crazy ... I would find it very unlikely that they are not having any sexual contact during this time. If he were my husband, coming over every night to be with his daughter, and I'm asking for cell phone records and therapy attendance, it would only b/c I would be under the impression that we were both trying to work it out. B/c I would be under that impression, I would be open to, and even initiate sex with him. If I weren't under that impression, and it has been one year since he moved out, then I would have already made arrangements for visitation and also tried to move on with my life. I wouldn't allow him to come there everyday, it would be too hurtfull and confusing. I would have to move on and that would mean he couldn't have the connection to me. But, you say she treats him as if they are still together, again, the only reason why I can see why she would be acting that way is b/c she is getting a different version from him than you are. Here again, though, he is probably telling her the truth. More than likely he is in love with both of you. You provide certain needs of his and she provides others. That is why I think he won't make any move either way. Two things can/will happen if you end it: 1) He realizes that he can't be without you and he actually takes the steps necessary to end his M and get on with his life with you. Or, 2) You hurt, you heal and then find someone else where you will be the most important thing in their life. Good luck.
My_Other_I Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 Or do these MM sit around an do the same thing over and over again until the BS has enough. Exactly. That's why he wants her to leave him. Even if they leave, they go back to the W. You should be prepared and willing to share your MM with his W for as long as he is in your life.
StrivingtoSucceed Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 When men have long term emotional affairs and the W finds out do most of the MM stay with the W? I can't imagine that the BS every gets over the A. It seems to me that once that trust is betrayed the marriage is broken. It would take a lot of work from the M and W to make the marraige work. I disagree. My H had an EA with a semi-co-worker. But then all cases are different and all people are different. My H and I have always been truthful with eachother, except for him keeping his feelings to himself that he wasn't getting some of his needs met by me. While he told me he "missed me" he never came right out and told me what he meant, or what he felt I needed to do. And, I never asked, or delved deeper into his meaning. When he thought that our marriage was over, he told me that he needed time away and after hours of conversation I concluded it was b/c of her. Not necessarily b/c of her. She was the end result but not the cause. However, once I was aware of the exact cause he and I were able to work on us and our marriage. I'm not saying that my trust isn't fragile, because it is. But b/c we have always been truthful with eachother (The time-frame from when he "realized" he wanted out and to be with her and she wanted to be with him to when he told me was only one day, so there wasn't any of the lying and deceiving going on) it has been easier to deal with. Another example would be Mopar Crazy ... that was a long-term EA, yet she is still together with her H and going strong. It will all depend on the individual people and everyone will have a different point of view. But, like I said in my previous post only you have the control to do something about it. Neither your MM, or his W will.
Mistaken Identity Posted January 26, 2006 Posted January 26, 2006 Why don't you stop having sex with him for a little while?
Author onemoreday Posted January 27, 2006 Author Posted January 27, 2006 I've been thinking a lot and I think that I'm going to give him two or three months to decide. We spoke about separating for a couple of months, but he is worried that I will find someone else during that time period. He is afraid that while he is trying to move everything in one direction, meaning a D, I moving in another, meaning finding someone else. I agreed to have my cell phone and home phone bill forwarded to his address so that he can assure himself that I'm not with anyone else. I also told him that I wouldn't change the lock to my apartment. If he felt worried he could check up on me. I think maybe this will give him the time away that he needs to make his decision, yet the comfort in knowing that I'll be there for him when he leaves. If he can not make up his mind in that time period I think the distance of not having him for two or three months will make it easier to just leave him all together. Any thoughts?
bluechocolate Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 I agreed to have my cell phone and home phone bill forwarded to his address so that he can assure himself that I'm not with anyone else. You agreed?? Meaning this was his idea? You're going to allow a married man to check your phone bills & enter your flat anytime he likes?? Loving, trusting couples do not behave this way. Any thoughts? Only one: utter madness.
lindya Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 I've been thinking a lot and I think that I'm going to give him two or three months to decide. We spoke about separating for a couple of months, but he is worried that I will find someone else during that time period....I agreed to have my cell phone and home phone bill forwarded to his address so that he can assure himself that I'm not with anyone else. I also told him that I wouldn't change the lock to my apartment. If he felt worried he could check up on me. I think maybe this will give him the time away that he needs to make his decision, yet the comfort in knowing that I'll be there for him when he leaves..... He's putting himself first, buying extra time and minimising the risk of ending up alone. If you're going to condone that by willingly sacrificing your privacy to alleviate his insecurities, hanging around waiting for him to make a decision and taking on all the emotional risks in this situation....that's entirely your decision. Hopefully it's an informed decision - and you're prepared for the fact that if he does decide to set up home with you, he will expect you to remain as sweet and malleable as you've been for the last two years. Do you think you can happily manage that, assuming you get what you want out of this?
AnchorManagement Posted January 28, 2006 Posted January 28, 2006 Onemoreday, This may or may not help you; I apologize if it makes it worse. I'm a MM who's in an almost identical situation to your own MM, in fact, aside from a few key details, you write and sound very much like the OW I'm in love with. No, you're not really her and I'm not him, but yes, I am in love. Like your guy, I'm keeping up a happy household with wife and two sons, even while privately agonizing over my current rift with the OW. It's been three years, three amazing years, and it took me a full year to admit to myself, and her, that I really did love her. Her feelings for me had always been more than mutual and all was wonderful until a few months ago, when her feelings started to diminish, recede and become invisible. There are a few important details I'll get to in later posts, but the indisputable truth is that I'm miserable without her. It's is not as clear cut as me refusing to leave my wife (even that's on the table) while she spends her weekends alone and lonely (she has a 'boyfriend' she claims not to love). The situation has become a twisted mess of unspoken expectations and unresolved hurt feelings, with her as the one who resists discussing openly and honestly. I'm serious - I'm the one who's the big communicator; she'd rather avoid it altogether. I guess my point is that regardless of whether she doesn't believe I'll leave my wife for her, or whether she simply lost her feelings along the way, I'm stuck mourning something that was - still is - very, very special to me. And I have to mourn silently. The love is real, as it is with your MM. I don't know your guy and I don't justify his or my actions, the consequences are devastating and the stakes high in this type of menage, but if you can't have anything else of permanence, remember his feelings for you were real. They still are, probably. You earned them. I wish you luck and inner peace.
Author onemoreday Posted January 29, 2006 Author Posted January 29, 2006 AnchorManagement, Why did you take so long to decide? If you have. It seems that you haven't decided yet. Why take everyone through such turmoil? Why the confusion? I was married and I knew that I would never be happy with the man I was with. I wasn't willing to sacrifice the rest of my life. Why would you? Why would anyone want to be in a loveless marriage? How is that good for anyone, even the children. If given the opportunity to leave your W and have the OW love you as she once did, would you? I'm in love with my MM. I've never felt the closeness I feel with him with anyone else, not even my husband who I was with for 8 years. I'm afraid that I'll never find that again. I wouldn't risk losing him. Why would he risk losing me? Explain this to me. I'm so confused. I'm sorry that you are where you are. It must be a horrible way to live.
AnchorManagement Posted January 29, 2006 Posted January 29, 2006 Onemoreday, My indecision had very simple roots: Sheer terror. My kids are young, I have a mortgage and two cars, and the idea of throwing a pipe bomb into that delicate formula is very scary. You asked me this: If given the opportunity to leave your W and have the OW love you as she once did, would you? The honest answer is, if I can find a way to manage the nuts and bolts of everyone's lives, then yes, I would. I'd do almost anything to have her love me as she did and, like you, I've never felt this strongly about anyone else. But that doesn't mean I can ignore the security of all involved. It's no small thing; it takes time and planning. The irony is I don't even know if my intentions made a difference to her. I'm sitting here still baffled by her complete invisibility act, not knowing if she got tired of waiting, or just grew tired of me. I really don't know, and she vaccilated and evaded right up to the end. For all my long-term goals for us, she may simply have moved on. This whole thing is not something I did lightly or with disregard for people's feelings. My wife and I have a nice relationship, not loveless, mostly platonic, and if I'd end it I'd make sure not to drop a bombshell on her; it would be done gradually and the separation would appear inevitable to her as well. Likewise, I never lied to my OW about anything - love, sex, future - anything. I feel the same about her as you do about your MM, and I never wanted to mislead her. I'm unfocused, I know, but I guess it comes down to the difference between wanting something and the reality of having it. I did want it, I still do, but being able to 'have it' with my OW required more thought than just shattering everything into pieces and re-assembling it all afterwards. Maybe I'm fooling myself that it could be done with such delicate precision; I'm just sorry I never had the chance to find out. Onemoreday, I want you to know how much I appreciate your thoughts and your empathy. Please believe you have mine. Funny - writing down my thoughts and actually communicating this with others is alot more helpful than I expected. My three-year secret is now posted on some website...strange. Kinda' cool, though. I hope this process is helpful to you too. Write back anytime.
travellingman Posted January 29, 2006 Posted January 29, 2006 I have a mortgage and two cars Low-interest financing stopped your pursuit of true love?
Author onemoreday Posted January 29, 2006 Author Posted January 29, 2006 AnchorManagement, Had you started to take steps to leave your wife or were you still deciding when your OW started drifting away? Have you spoken to her and told her that you would be willing to leave your wife? You mentioned in your prior post that your OW had a boyfriend, but was not in love with him. In girl speak that means she is still in love with you. Your OW had already dedicated 3 years of her life to you. How many more did you expect her to give? I'm asking, because I'm headed toward the three year mark myself. I'm 33 years old, divorced, and no children. I want someone for myself. I long to have a normal relationship, as normal as one can expect, considering all the issues. However, I don't want to continue to be the OW. I want a family of my own. Have you ever thought that your OW has walked away from you to see if you will go to her? If you read several of the posts in this forum the advise to the OW is always leave the MM and let him decide if he can live without you. If he can, he will leave the M. Maybe your OW got tired of doing anything and everything to try to get you to leave your M and leaving you was the only thing she had not tried. Three yeas is a long time. I'm only questioning you because I want to leave my MM in order to allow him to make a decision, but I am scared to leave him because I'm afraid that he will think the same thing you are thinking now of your OW, that I have moved on.
Vincent Vega Posted January 29, 2006 Posted January 29, 2006 All you people that expect relationships from cheaters are hilarious. I don't mean to be condescending or insulting or anything, but what exactly makes you think he will never cheat again. He's cheating on his WIFE for christs sake...imagine how easy it will be for him to cheat on you once he leaves her.
AnchorManagement Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 All you people that expect relationships from cheaters are hilarious. I don't mean to be condescending or insulting or anything... Your first sentence completely contradicts your second sentence, by the way. And having a username that references one of my all-time favourite films doesn't make your comment any less simplistic. Technically, yes, I'll buy the possibility that people who cheat once may be statistically more likely to cheat again. But lumping all cheaters together in one steaming pot sounds more like bitterness than a rational theory. And suggesting it would be easier to cheat on the OW if they should marry is a stretch - after all, who better to recognize the patterns or the telltale clues of cheating than the OW? Plus, you totally discount the possibility that, maybe, perhaps, the endgame was more than just screwing around; maybe, just perhaps, there was something special going on. In my case, if I just craved the thrill of cheating I would've become bored long before year three of my relationship with the OW. Not the case.
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