Back to sqaure one. I F'd up

[tehphrank]

It seems from reading all of your post, that if you DO want another try at the relationship then this is the time. Maybe you're both a fault and have some issues to work out, who knows? However if you refuse to call her back now and become cold you'll never know the outcome. So the question really is, do you want to be with her? If it really is what you wish...build your hopes back up and take another chance. You may tell yourself you don't want to fall and break again, but even if you do, you know you can just rebuild yourself stronger. The question really is, do you love her?

[UT_longhorn]

So is the ball in my court now?

[Kengne]

So is the ball in my court now?

 

 

Yes.

 

She has already left a VM saying she is open to getting back with you in the future.

 

Stop wondering about why didn't she this, or that... etc..

Just ask her!

 

And the reason she didn't call - even though she broke up with you - was because she was hurt at your actions. She expected YOU to call to make peace... and then maybe, one day, get back together & work on the rel'ship.

 

This seems like it may be the door to your 2nd chance - if you really want it.

 

Call her back... ask whatever questions you want to ask, & hopefully you will get the answers you are seeking. If your feelings are still there ... and both of you are willing to start over from scratch & see how things go - go for it!

 

Please don't try to flip the script now and say "well I dunno how I feel" now that she's making steps back towards you. You were heartbroken when you guys broke up - so obviously your feelings are still there. Whether you choose to act on them or not is your choice.

 

The ball is in your court. Just don't let it smack you in your head.

 

K.

[UT_longhorn]

how do you know its not some ploy to string me along?

she did want a break with me and even a break up before the fight. when i was out of the country, she wanted a break because she felt suffocated. then when i came back, she was even willing to break up with me. then came back immediately.

 

she's so wishy washy and im scared to get hurt again. i guess the best thing to do is call to ask all the questions that i want? i just dont want to get my hopes up just to get them crushed again.

[tehphrank]

You both need to sit down and have a nice long talk. You both need to communicate about what you want, and then apply what you've learn. Doing this will make the relationship +++ better.

[UT_longhorn]

This may either be the dumbest move in my life, or the smartest, but I asked her to lunch this morning. We both work downtown and within a few blocks of each other. I told her I had alot to say to her and she accepted. I really dont know what to say except apologize for New Years eve. I also want to guage how she feels as well.

 

I have no idea whats going to happen. I'm nervous that it might all crash into a ball of flames. But also hopeful. I'll keep you updated.

[skeptik224]

Hey, UT. I'm sending out some positive vibes for you. I'm sure you'll finally get a lot of the answers you so desperately need. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. (just in case) Share your feelings but keep in your emotions. Don't beg or plead and allow her to lead the conversation. I know it sounds strange, but you'll get a better feel for things if she initiates. Please let me know what happens.

[UT_longhorn]

Hey...thanks skeptic. I'll need all the positive vibes I can get. I'll let you know how the lunch goes.

[Tony79]

UT

Go out with her, have fun and enjoy yourself. No Contact can work sometimes but other times it can hurt what could of been. I psoted my story a few weeks back, well after no contact, she came back to me within a week. She knew what she was missing. I wasnt playing any games, but I wanted to heal myself. We are taking things very very slow, cuase I need to, I was hurt.

 

No contact is a blanket statement, I think by you doing no contact was the right decision, I did not know the New Years issue, but regardless what is in the past is there, you can only conern yourself with the present and future.

 

Everyone has suggestions, advice, but remember every break up, relationship has different situations. My girlfriend and I have realized how much we mean to each other and everything is so much better. No one takes for granted the small things.

 

Go to lunch with her, you can have hope, but do not get carried away with it. You can hide hope, but take it as it comes, dont put undue pressure. Have fun, see where it goes. Time will only tell, but this girl cares about you, she would of not called you if she didnt.

 

Good luck, hoping for the best. And the best is what you want!

[CaliGuy]

I saw her last night at the club I went to with friends. I was having a good time till she showed up. When she did my friends told me and my stupid ass went to go talk to her. The conversation was so awkward at first. I kept talking to her and went to the point to even asking her if we could work things out. She pretty much blanked me. She said theres was absolutely no chance. She made it pretty damn clear. There was not even an ounce of emotions or sympathy from her part.

 

My heart feels like it was hit by a 4 ton sledgehammer. I feel so retarded. I feel soooo hurt again. Why did I have to see her!!! Like all of you mentioned before...Im back at square one. I can't believe that happened and I can't believe Im so hurt again.

 

I guess one good thing that came from the incident is that I will no longer wonder. I will not hold on. I was holding on, but now, I clearly know its over. No wishing.

 

The pain is unbearable.

 

UT, stop kicking yourself, we all have done this.

 

When we give you advice, such as not hanging out at places you might see your Ex, this is one of the reasons why.

 

We know it's hard not to think about or want your Ex but all you have accomplished is setting yourself back to square one.

 

Brother, I don't know how to make this any clearer: Until you truly let go, you will not heal.

 

Let me repeat: UNTIL YOU TRULY LET GO (ie: accept it's over, put away all reminders of her, delete her cell number, remove her from IM, etc), YOU WILL NEVER HEAL.

 

You won't be able to work on self-improvement.

You won't socialize much with friends.

You won't be fun to hang out with.

 

And most of all, you won't be attractive to Ms. Right, when she does come along. And she will. It's only a matter of time.

 

Are you seeing a Counselor?

[CaliGuy]

she called me.

 

she called to ask why i had to talk about that kind of stuff at the club? why i had to "make a scene". which i didn't. i told her, i needed to get complete closure, and that she made it perfectly clear yesterday what she wanted and that i got my closure. that now i can move on completely.

 

she asked why hadnt i called for the past few weeks. i said why do you think? im just trying to get over you. i told her it was incredibly hard the first week, but now its getting easier.

 

she then goes on to say...you think it was easy for me? she tells me shes been staying home and not going out. she says if you had called earlier we could have worked things out. she said that i should have called and because of my pride i didnt call. i told her i wasnt calling her because she ripped my heart open and i was trying to get over her.

 

we basically broke up because i got incredibly upset on new years eve night and yelled at her and basically went ballistic on her. she said, why didn't you call to apologize. we could have worked things out. i kept telling her that i was hurt, but im much better and now i can really move on.

 

BUT...even before that incident, she told me that she was being suffocated and wanted a break (mostly due to my trust issues). i think the incident was just the perfect excuse for her to break it off.

 

why did she call me? what is she trying to tell me? is she just trying to keep my hopes up and string me along? or is she trying trying to tell me she wants to reconcile?

 

She may want to reconcile, UT. What do YOU want? If you want to try and work things out, then call her and ask her if you can meet for coffee or something. Sit down and talk to her, as calmly and unemotionally as you can. Talk about your differences and see if you can come to a resolution.

 

But do it only if that is what you want.

[CaliGuy]

as for anger, i have in our relationship yelled at her 2 times. once that new years...and once in the past. both involved alchohol, and i think i do need to watch my emotions when drunk.

 

Just a suggestion here, but why not just quit alcohol? Do you need it? I mean, the two times you've been mean to her you were drinking. Can you see the connection here?

 

i think the major issues were with my trust issues and the fact that she felt that i smothered her with too much me. she needed to miss me. all i wanted to do was spend time with her. i think i lost my independence and became dependent on her. i think that was the major underlying issues.

 

Confident and secure men don't need someone else to make them happy. Figure out what makes you happy without involving her and do more of it. That will help balance your relationship.

[CaliGuy]

This may either be the dumbest move in my life, or the smartest, but I asked her to lunch this morning. We both work downtown and within a few blocks of each other. I told her I had alot to say to her and she accepted. I really dont know what to say except apologize for New Years eve. I also want to guage how she feels as well.

 

I have no idea whats going to happen. I'm nervous that it might all crash into a ball of flames. But also hopeful. I'll keep you updated.

 

Hopefully I am not too late.

 

Apologize, stop drinking. Also, as I mentioned earlier, find some things you like to do and spend more time with friends. You need to be balanced in your life. You can't make her the center of your attention.

[francis]

good luck...just be clear about what you want. apologise for your mistakes. i hope you get what you want. i think you will know as soon as you see her, deep down, exactly how you feel.

[Becoming]

I'm concerned about you, UT. You keep obsessing over what she's thinking, what she wants, etc. , when you should be concentrating on what you're feeling, thinking, wanting and watching to see if you're a good match.

 

You can't have a relationship with someone if you don't know who you are and what you want, what's important to you, where you're willing to compromise, and at what point in the compromises you'll be compromising yourself and your values. I don't have the sense that you know this about yourself.

 

It's like you're looking to alcohol and a relationship to fill up some lack in yourself. You also say you've recently found religion, which CAN be another thing we use like a drug. Get in touch with this Higher Power and pray about what's going on with you and why this is causing you so much turmoil and see what insights come over time as you're open to the answer.

 

And keep us posted, ok? We do care about you and just want to help.

[UT_longhorn]

OK GUYS.

 

She made it 10000% clear that she does NOT want to get back together. She could not have made it any clearer. And boy does it hurt. Here I am again. I feel like such stupid a**.

 

I think someone posted on one of my threads that i'd have to keep touching the fire until I learned to pull away. Well I had this hope running in my mind all this time. Even though I tried not to, but this time...I don't have any hope. It is the end and I know it. She was very very clear.

 

I really hope this hurt doesnt take as long to recover from. I really hope that this will give me some better closure.

 

I am no longer going to obsess about what shes thinking Becoming. I know now. I am going to move forward and take care of my own well being and building self confidence and inner strength.

 

It's just so frustrating because I feel like I climbed a huge emotional mountain just to be dragged back to the bottom again. Maybe Im not as far down as I think. Maybe this is just a small setback.

 

Guys....please tell me that this is a good thing and that it will help me heal. I really need some positive words from you all.

 

Thanks.

[Becoming]

I'm sorry UT that this happened except that now you know for sure, as you say, and can move on.

 

Use this time to work on you and think about what it is you want your life to be.

 

Prayers, bro, for your shalom. Do what you know you need to do for you.

 

And now for some sleep?

[pippen_2k]

Yeah dont worry, the pain feels like day 1, but since u have been there before, you will recover from this alot quicker... Give it a few days and u will be fine.

 

Make sure u dont make any more time for this chick. She has gone now, so dont kid urself and try to be her friend or nethin silly like that.

 

She cant give you what u want, so shove a fork in her cause she is done!

[UT_longhorn]

Well..here I am the morning after the incident yesterday where my ex told me basically there's no chance of reconciling and it sure does feel like I'm living in my own personal hell.

 

I have to be at work which is the hardest part because my job is very demanding. It hurts like hell. I feel like sh*t that I have to go through this again. Will this time around be easier?

[Ezydriver]

Well..here I am the morning after the incident yesterday where my ex told me basically there's no chance of reconciling and it sure does feel like I'm living in my own personal hell.

 

I have to be at work which is the hardest part because my job is very demanding. It hurts like hell. I feel like sh*t that I have to go through this again. Will this time around be easier?

UT, oh man, I've missed your posts for a day or so, I've been busy, I'm sorry to read what has happened and what is happening, however, another important lesson has just been learned, everybody was telling you, you'd be further along in your healing if you'd just left well alone, I'm sorry if you're not keen on this reply, but from now on, do yourself a favour, this is it, this is the start of your proper N/C and you'd better buckle down and hit it head on, I don't know if it'll be easier this time round for you, I couldn't say, everybody is different, you have your answer from this girl, honestly, take it from me, you WILL get over her, it just takes time, keep posting on here, and you can always email me anytime, you have my email address, I spoke with you a few days ago.

Take care man!!

Steve.

[UT_longhorn]

no....i have touched the fire enough to know that im going to get burned. i thought she was giving me the green light to work things out. i guess i was wrong. now i know for sure. and i am going to stay away from her like she was kryptonite.

 

i am begining to get angry. I hope thats a good thing.

[RZA-Man]

Hey UT, I'm sorry to hear about what happened. I sort of went through the same thing with my ex. About a month after she dumped me we met up at a bar and talked. Although I didn't explicity ask for her back she made it pretty clear that she didn't want to reconcile. As if that wasn't enough, a week later I sent her an e-mail asking for a second chance. No dice once again. It does suck when the ex won't give you a second chance after you f***ed up, but that's life. Hopefully this meeting means that you don't any regrets or lingering doubts and it can provide you with some closure. From this point on it will be a lot easier to maintain NC. There's still the urge to call her, but it isn't as great because you know it won't do any good. Her mind is made up. It's time to walk away. Be strong and keep in mind that in time this pain will go away. It always does.

[riobikini]

UT,

 

RE:

 

UT: " Guys....please tell me that this is a good thing and that it will help me heal. "

 

 

It is a good thing.

 

But now, you need information, -a plan- and a way to make it out of this fog and to the other side.

 

You have to develop understanding about where you've come, why you've been there, and how to get through the aftermath so you can be free from it enough to renew your life.

 

And that requires some of the most basic information about the physiology of your emotions to begin with.

 

I don't know how many times I have had to just step back and review what I know I know, just to be able to get a real grip on my situation and take control of it.

 

Knowing what causes my emotions to function the way they do is always the best place to start, and it's where I go for my own personal review.

 

So that's where I'll start with you.

 

I almost feel guilty about some of what I'm about to say here, -it's kind of like telling an innocent, believing, trusting five-year-old that there is really no Santa Claus.

 

Fact is, I've been dying to write this for weeks in LS and you've just given me the best excuse there is. This will not be a polished 'read' but it will give enough information, I believe, considering the short amount of time I have here to write it.

 

I hope many people run across this and learn from it.

 

So here we go:

 

Many of you already know that hormones play a significant role in the lives of humans and animals, alike, in the physiological functioning of our reproductive capability, but few realize the specific roles and ensuing impact of our body's chemicals in determining our choice of a life-partner, or love-interest.

 

Often our choice of a mate is simply chalked up to the belief that fate has led us to meet him/her and that the rituals of attracting a mate, dating, and forming a long-term relationship are just a matter of tastes, accumulative background schemata, and unassuming likes and dislikes.

 

But science is such a wet blanket to our silly ideas about love and how it develops and is encouraged.

 

Our everyday concept of love is far removed from the naive simplicity of boy-meets-girl, boy-falls-in-love-with-girl, and they live happily ever after.

 

It is more about chemicals and genes and developed behavior than hearts and Valentines, roses and wine, gooey love-letters, or melting kisses in the rain.

 

Sadly, it is the effect of certain hormones, acting with much the same effect as euphoria-inducing drugs which actually promote the attraction and mating ritual, while other hormones enter in on the follow-up and act as bonds to ensure any probable longevity of the relationship, for an undetermined amount of time, and long after the first 'hello'.

 

These hormones have been spotlighted by one of the best known researchers in this area of biochemistry, Helen Fisher of Rutgers University in New Jersey.

 

Dr. Fisher's work narrows down the specific hormones involved in romantic relationships and places them in separate categories to which she links to three different stages of the physiological science of falling in love.

 

Testosterone and estrogen, the two major sex hormones most notably referred to in human sexual reproduction, are listed in stage one, the 'lust stage', where the initial reaction to the opposite sex is mostly a driving physical attraction.

 

Both women and men share the formation and presence of each of these hormones in inequal quantities according to their specific gender: in men testosterone predominates, giving him masculine characteristics, and in women estrogen predominates, likewise, attributing her with a more feminine appearance.

 

High levels of testosterone is known to promote aggressiveness and cause emotion-driven sexual behavior in both sexes without their giving much thought to the consequences of their actions.

 

Since testosterone is present in both genders and has the ability to give an edge to the already-formed facets of our personality, it is often called the 'lust' hormone.

 

It helps determine the exact physical traits that cause us to look twice at the opposite sex, and is quite frank, unshy, and unapologetic in what it chooses and deems attractive.

 

It is during the initial stage of hormone-induced romantic notion that the 'hunter' or 'huntress' (Smile) -first notices and chooses a mate.

 

The second stage is called the 'attraction stage', and introduces the production of more euphoric-inducing chemicals, or hormones, all of which are 'neurotransmitters'.

 

These powerful hormones are dopamine, norepinephrine, (adrenaline), and serotonin, the well-noted 'happiness' hormone.

 

Dopamine has a unique effect on the brain in that, once it begins to be produced during 'romantica', it creates an insatiable desire or craving sensation within the portion of the brain where emotions are 'felt', to keep producing the hormone, thereby encouraging continued romantic feelings.

 

It is amusing, if not downright myth-bashing, to note that, in fact, we do not feel with our hearts, but rather, with our brain.

 

So when our 'hearts' get broken, we in fact, have a 'broken brain', instead.

 

Yet, I doubt that the image of a brain instead of a big red heart will ever be chosen for replacement for Hallmark's best line of Valentine cards any time soon.

 

Though dopamine lays a large role in our fantasizing about our partner, causing us to daydream and go about in a partially reality-detached frame of mind, it's greatest impact is that it causes us the inability to stop thinking constantly about a partner, and creates the feeling of 'not being able to get enough of each other'.

 

It is due to the brain's appetite for the euphoric effect of dopamine, that part of the 'high' felt during the second stage is explained.

 

Norepinephrine is responsible for causing the 'rush' of emotions felt during romance. This neurotransmitter causes the 'butterflies' felt when couples see, or think of each other. It is a strangely acute awareness that may produce goosebumps or a sudden increase in pulse and heart-rate. It can also cause profuse sweating and even fainting, or vomiting, if the lovestruck is a bit too overwhelmed.

 

Working in sync with the other hormones, a brighter, healthier-looking skin tone or perpetually slightly flushed appearance is common evidence of the presence of norepinephrine.

 

The last hormone produced en-mass in the second stage is serotonin.

 

Serotonin is known in lay terms as the 'happiness hormone' because of it's ability to create a sense of well-being and promote a lighter mood. Without serotonin present in a homeostatic balance relative to our overall emotions, we would be in a constant state of depression, sadness, and gloom.

 

During this second stage, serotonin is very active and works with dopamine to promote the daydreaming and fantasizing effect but it's primary indicator is that nothing will seem to bother you; you will skip through your day like a toe-dancer, or float through it like you are walking on air. You may notice birds singing, and children laughing and all the cliche' indicators, but dealing with any crisis you encounter will simply not be a priority.

 

Since this hormone keeps you in a constant state of 'happy', it will cause people to notice your unusually 'up' state of emotions, thereby giving explanation to the common statement, " Oh, God! -don't ask him/her anything important, -he's/she's 'in love'!"

 

One of the most notable characteristics of serotonin, is that although it is necessary in specific amounts in order to feel happy in a 'normal', everyday sense, it also seems to have the ability to produce a comfort-zone and works with both norepinephrine and dopamine later on, in the third stage of love, to bring into balance some of their perhaps, sometimes, slightly negative effects, and helps temper the entire mix of hormones, transforming the emotions into a uniquely concocted formula called ' true love'.

 

The third and final stage of love is called the 'attachment stage', and is characterized by the production of two hormones, oxytocin and vasopressin.

 

Oxytocin is more well-known as the hormone released by the hypothalamus gland during labor in childbirth where it plays a major role in producing contractions for delivery of an infant, and after delivery when it is produced to help in the expression of breast milk.

 

During the third stage of love, however, oxytocin plays it's major role with orgasm during sex.

 

It is theorized that, like the bond cemented between mother and child during the release of oxytocin while breastfeeding, couples also experience bonding when oxytocin is produced by having sex, and that the longer the sexual relationship, the stronger the bond.

 

This is a good explanation as to why it's so hard in letting go when a relationship fails and two people separate, expectedly or unexpectedly.

 

Because of the induced bond created, it can be excruciating to be apart, causing other active hormones, such as dopamine, to want to wildly pursue contact and embark on an almost insane onslaught of continuous anguished thoughts of the absent partner.

 

As time goes on, however, and contact dwindles to a minimum or to none, the realization of the break can be grasped and finally accepted by the heart-broken partner, due largely by gradual slowed production and depletion of these chemicals, which promoted the emotions and bonding in the first place.

 

Vasopressin is the last chemical for discussion, and is the most mysterious in exactly how it works in relationship to the emotions. By classification, it is an anti-diuretic hormone described as a nine amino acid peptide secreted from the posterior pituitary within hypothalamic neurons, and it's primary function is to conserve body water by reducing the output of urine.

 

Although the major role of vasopressin is focused on the proper functioning of the kidneys, scientists studying the prairie vole (a rodent-like creature) made a phenomenal discovery which may apply to humans, as well.

 

The prairie vole was known to secrete the same two hormones, oxytocin and vasopressin, during sex, that humans do.

 

In the voles, long-term bonding through sex was characteristic, but scientists, hoping for proof of vasopressin's true effects concerning bonding, experimented by giving the vole a drug which suppressed the presence of vasopressin.

 

The vole disassociated with it's partner immediately and the bond deteriorated, giving some proof to vasopressin's possible role in the bonding of humans in long-term relationships.

 

As with oxytocin, no-contact status reduces the production of vasopressin back to 'normal' therefore, also reducing the desire to be with the departed mate.

 

With proof of the roles of specific hormones relating so intimately to our human emotions during our romantic notions, and with yet other unproven theories about relationships and how they are formed and bonded so close to confirmation, it is still sad, in a particular way to understand the physiology behind it all, and possess reasonable answers about our most admired and treasured attribute as human beings: the ability to love.

 

I know this was long and is probably full of typo's but my hope is that this helps someone to begin grasping a reality-based understanding of human emotions that will not only help any recovery in progress, but will also give wisdom for any future relationships.

 

Take care.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[UT_longhorn]

RZA Man,

 

After you spoke with your ex and got rejected a second time, was it easier to move forward since you really knew things were over? How long has it been and how have you handled it? What are the thoughts that are going through your mind now?

[UT_longhorn]

Rio...

 

I appreciate the detailed post on the physiology of love. I'm going to have to come back to it later to really read it cause at this point, Im just screwed in the head again. I hate the fact, like I mentioned before, it feels like I climed so high on the mountain just to be pushed back to the bottom. But maybe I didnt fall all the way down. I'm going to move forward. Push myself.