3 strikes and you're out (or not?)

[Gebidozo]

47 minutes ago, bitter and sad said:

Must be great to sit up high on that throne and throw your declarations of truth down on us rabble.

I’m not sitting on any throne, I’m trying to help you. If you want to solve the problem, the first step is to stop being so bitterly defensive and acknowledge the fact that you’re twisting the narrative in an attempt to minimize the serious impact of the events that are gradually being unraveled.

There is no shame in admitting that. Most of us are guilty of that. I also came to this forum with a story that got quickly exposed for inconsistency. I wasn’t lying, I was just convincing myself that was the truth.

[Imogen_77]

On 3/31/2026 at 3:59 PM, bitter and sad said:

She once told me:  "as long as the two of us are walking the face of this earth, we may be together."  

So, back to your original post, and the above statement: Is that something you’re holding on to? It sure seems that way. 
If she really lives in your town, then how likely do you think it is that you or your wife might run into her somewhere? 
I mean it sure sounds like this may not be over (on your part), and you can either be proactive about it and find out more about her circumstances and current whereabouts (like you said, there’s the internet), or you do nothing and let the chips fall where they may. I really don’t have any other ideas at the moment. You do seem like you really really want to know. 
And while I don’t recommend keeping secrets from your spouse (and people you’re close to in general, because imo it causes too much stress and emotional imbalance), I do assume that this nagging feeling won’t go away all by itself, especially now that you know that your former AP might live close. She might not, though, tbh. Could be somebody different with a similar name. Could be an investment property. Could be property that they bought to rent out. I’m sure you know the address, and I’m wondering if you have done a “drive-by” ….. So yeah, my point is that you’ll never be satisfied until you know. But your former AP, OTOH, may be completely disinterested ….. because why else wouldn’t she have dropped a hint by now? This, or it’s not her. There’s only one way to find out.
What that means for the quality of your marriage is another question only you can answer. Because again: secrets. 

[bitter and sad]

Geb - thanks.  There is no impact at the moment (and likely will not be), and I don't need to "admit" to any untuths or inconsistencies.  I have tried to tell my story - again, 2 different stories - as well as I can.  Obviously any post only includes what's most important or relevant initially.  If I wrote absolutely everything at once, it'd be 100 pages or more.  Like I said, there is no advantage in minimizing or lying about anything.  You say I have - that's fine.  Again, thanks for your help.

77 - I only mentioned that statement of hers to try to describe her feelings, and the permanence of them.  I understood what she was saying when she said that, but I didn't necessarily agree.  I saw our window of opportunity as being finite.  Each episode, I was pushing for us to be together.  She had her reasons, ultimately, for why it wasn't the right time.  The 3rd time was the right time (and I'd say the 1st), but she broke down and gave up.

There is no question it is her "in town."  It'd be quite odd to run into her/them - I say town, but we live in a very big East Coast city.  I have not driven by.  Though I don't doubt for a second that she has driven by my house.  I didn't know this at the time, but when we lived in the same town/city for the first 3 years of this saga, she later told me she drove by all the time, and sometimes just parked outside my house.  Wow, I was shocked because we lived at the end of a 10-house cul-de-sac - everybody knew everybody.

I don't have any immediate plans to do anything.  I just learned of this about a month ago.

[Sanch62]

On 4/1/2026 at 3:05 PM, bitter and sad said:

As I stated in that thread several times, our marriage is just fine otherwise; that is, outside my own despondency re her what appears to be, permanent dishonesty.  But that's not what I am writing about here.  These are separate issues.

Whose permanent dishonesty, hers or yours? Does W know you've plotted your escape from her with the woman you love over the course of 3 reunions and are considering contacting that woman again?

Sounds like a case of pot calling kettle in a feigned show of self-righteousness.

Why not just end the marriage so you can operate freely with no reason to point fingers at anybody else?

[ExpatInItaly]

On 4/4/2026 at 8:24 PM, bitter and sad said:

I don't have any immediate plans to do anything

There should be no plans at all - immediate or otherwise. 

It's time you let go. Way past time. 

[bitter and sad]

Prologue - it seems some posts/comments come and go on this site.  I read a few comments late yesterday that were quite good - especially 77's - and they're gone this morning.  Why is that?  Nothing controversial or seemingly against the rules.  I was looking forward to responding to them.  ???

Yes, 62, there's some hypocrisy here, however they're not quite the same IMO.  I think I already distinguished them as apples and oranges.  One is lying about having sex w multiple men outside the marriage when asked directly about it.  The other is harboring thoughts and memories about an ex-GF/AP with whom I was once in love (a GF/AP I wholly admitted to when asked).  One is blatant dishonesty and the other is not that abnormal (especially as one hits "old age," and contemplates "might have beens.").  To the latter, if one cannot come on this relationship board and post about old relationships without being accused of having a "very recent" A or bad behavior, then what's the point of having it?  Not exactly a safe space.  What percentage of people on this board still think about their old GFs/BFs/ex-APs?  I'd venture to guess, most.

EPI - I have not acted in 16+ years and I don't have any plans to.  I think a few people were saying it is an option - not necessarily recommending it, but an option.

I don't feel bad, or "dishonest" about thinking about my ex-AP.  Clearly finding out in the last month that she has moved 20 miles away from me when we were separated by 100s of miles for 25 of the last 28 years (and 95% of the on/off relationship we had over the course of 12 years) is a reasonable if not expected cause of increased thoughts and memories.  I came here to ask what others thought of that change, and what they might recommend.  Most say, let it go.  Many say, come clean w your W and ask/demand she come clean w you.  Some say, it's up to you - pros and cons in both directions.

While I don't have any plans to try to contact my ex-AP, I do think I have moved a tad closer to confronting my W about her past sexual As.  Again, that was more the other thread, but responses to both threads have moved me closer to believing I/we have to get that out in the open for my mental health in my last couple decades.  IIRC, 77 had a very good post about that yesterday - a lot about my W weaponizing anger to stop me in my tracks, and not to let her succeed w that.  Anyone and everyone I have ever told my story about W's behavior has said there is no doubt she had these As (and most were women).  If she goes bonkers and threatens our M over me asking honest questions, then so be it.  I am not in the wrong about wanting the truth.  Yup, 62 (and others), there is some hypocrisy and righteousness in that, but at least in my mind, these aren't the same.  Mostly because my past sin is out in the open - my W knows about ex-AP because I admitted to her - and her past sin is hidden and lied about.  My recent thoughts and memories?  Just that, thoughts and memories.

[ExpatInItaly]

20 minutes ago, bitter and sad said:

While I don't have any plans to try to contact my ex-AP, I do think I have moved a tad closer to confronting my W about her past sexual As.  Again, that was more the other thread, but responses to both threads have moved me closer to believing I/we have to get that out in the open for my mental health in my last couple decades

I don't see a problem in asking your wife for honesty about her suspected affairs. You should be candid about yours, too. 

 

[bitter and sad]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I don't see a problem in asking your wife for honesty about her suspected affairs. You should be candid about yours, too. 

 

Well, the latter aspect would be armageddon, marital suicide.  Hey, it might not be right, but it's true - not looking for that.  If/when our M were to end (and I don't see or want that), I'd like it to at least be under my terms.  Again, that may not be right/fair, but I think nearly everyone is in the end about their own self-interests.

[Imogen_77]

3 hours ago, bitter and sad said:

I read a few comments late yesterday that were quite good - especially 77's - and they're gone this morning. 

Thanks. Hope all is well.

I don’t think anything has be deleted, but you never know.

[ExpatInItaly]

15 hours ago, bitter and sad said:

 I think nearly everyone is in the end about their own self-interests.

Speak for yourself. 

Not everyone is that hypocritical, seflish, or afraid of the consquences of their own behaviour. 

[Carlston]

4 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Not everyone is that hypocritical, seflish, or afraid of the consquences of their own behaviour. 

I took that in being in the context of a failed marriage leading to a high conflict divorce at which point it's every man or rather spouse for themselves.

[bitter and sad]

Correct, Carlston.  I thought that was clear.  That is what I was talking about.  I also said it may not be right or fair - which it wouldn't.

Frankly, if we did need to get into selfishness further, I have pretty much lived my whole life in service to others and putting their interests first.  But I don't need to justify myself to anyone.  I am without a doubt an imperfect person, but if anything, I am selfless.

[ExpatInItaly]

7 hours ago, Carlston said:

I took that in being in the context of a failed marriage leading to a high conflict divorce at which point it's every man or rather spouse for themselves.

So? That does not justify demading the truth from her while hiding his own affair and lying by omission. 

[bitter and sad]

So, apparently we're not going to agree on this, EPI.  I'm just not sure where/why/how you're not seeing any difference in the situations here.  My W knows of my EA w ex-AP.  She asked and I told her.  To be fair and fully honest, not, not of EA-2 or of A-3.  I get the latter is not nothing and is therefore deception (by omission, as you point out).  But she knows and I have paid a long, dear price for it.  And it was 97% EA, not sex.  My W on the other hand has had a minimum of 2 sexual As, one a fling, and one for nearly 2 years.  The latter was while I was away and arguably w a Hall Pass, but upon my return, she wanted to continue the A and even referred to continuing it as "cheating."  TBH, I don't even know for sure when she stopped w him.  When questioned, she has flatly denied both of these, multiple times.  If one uses the "tip of the iceberg" analogy, these are only the ones I know about without a doubt.  I know of other possibilities, but do not have enough evidence to include them in this discussion.

You don't see any distinction to be made in our level/degree of infidelity and dishonesty with these facts?  I know, one can say any level is not good - no such thing as a little bit pregnant - but her secret life, transgressions, and bald faced dishonesty when asked far exceeds mine.  Yes, I realize in a perfect world and M, there are NO secrets.  I'm not claiming my secret about two additional contact periods is ok or a good thing - it isn't.  But her infidelities and lying denials are an unopened and festering wound that won't heal without the truth.  Getting that into the open is a justifiable and reasonable step without blowing up the entire marriage in the process.

[Gebidozo]

4 hours ago, bitter and sad said:

I'm just not sure where/why/how you're not seeing any difference in the situations here. 

Well, I do see a difference, but not in your favor.

Your wife should have admitted her affair(s) if they indeed took place. However, considering the fact that she only slept with other men after you had repeatedly urged her to sleep with other men in spite of her initial reluctance to do so, we’re talking more of a mutual failure of communication on a grand scale than just a simple case of deceit.

On the other hand, your incredibly lengthy, on-and-off, full-fledged, highly emotional and also sexual affair, which had started independently of all the above events and which you’re still obsessed with, is clearly a total marriage-breaker regardless of how you look at it and a much bigger issue overall.

Both of your threads are basically constructed like defense speeches intending to diminish your affair and augment the affairs of your wife. Even if the two affairs were equally grave, it is a distorted narrative.

I’m not saying this to offend you, but as someone who, sadly, has done this kind of thing before and knows how self-destructive self-delusion can be.

As terribly hard as it is, you must learn how to be fair and impartial in such cases.

[ExpatInItaly]

8 hours ago, bitter and sad said:

You don't see any distinction to be made in our level/degree of infidelity and dishonesty with these facts?

I see a man making excuses to save his own skin, a man who lacks the maturity to take real accountability for his own behaviour. 

 

 

[Carlston]

12 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

That does not justify demading the truth from her while hiding his own affair and lying by omission.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

[bitter and sad]

One truth that cannot be hidden is that we both have secrets, that, ideally, would not be secrets and which each would've shared and/or revealed when asked.  I get that.  I am not saying mine is ok and hers isn't.  I also agree there is some defensiveness and rationalization on my part here.  But most of the defensiveness is actually to straighten out facts, clariifcations.  All have said/admitted here that the story is hard to follow, having been offered in 2 different threads, and piecemeal.  I've explained why everything wasn't said at once in one place - you can take that or leave it.  I also think a few of you have the 50,000 foot picture and that's all you think you need to say what you want to say.  No one is really in the weeds and knows the whole story, whether all offered here, or nuances that I still haven't offered.  But regardless, yes, big picture, I think we're all on, or close to, the same page.

Here's the last - yeah, sure - distinction.

We - my W and I -  can talk about her As because they are not M-breakers in my mind.  The As are not at all - for the reason Geb indicates.  It is a kink and "turn-on" to me.  I brought it up, offered it, encouraged it, etc.  But in the hotwife/cuckold lifestyle, that is a shared, open, known activity.  It is actually a part of the couple's sexual relationship.  It is for both persons.  So, the real and lasting issue here is her deceit.  Hiding it when it happened and lying about it when asked.  But again, that can all be discussed now without ending our M.  I would immediately forgive her - be hurt, but forgive - and it'd then be out in the open, and we'd move on and hopefully live happily ever after.

My 12 year on/off again contact and relationship - and eventual "full-blown" A, and continued thoughts and feelings (not an "obsession," sorry Geb) is a guaranteed M-ender.  So unless I want to pursue ex-AP (no intention), or end our M (I don't), there is no reason I would reveal the past recontact and subsequent 2nd and 3rd iterations of EA/As to my W.  OK, again, in a perfect world, yup, no secrets, full open and honest communication, but... (a) it ain't a perfect world, (b) at what cost, and (c) who doesn't have some secrets?

So this boils down to more of a, "does one confess an A to a marriage partner" which is old, done, retired, in the past (spare me the thoughts and memories lecture again), when to do so will - not maybe, possible, or likely, but WILL, end a 40+ year marriage?  No.  And I think that's the most common answer here and "by the experts."

On the other hand, an honest yes, an honest response, not lying, is not too much to ask of my W if asked once again about her dalliances outside the M?  Hell, again, they were "sanctioned," or encouraged by her H.  So, WTH?

There ARE different situations.