Shoot my shot, or take a hike?

[Repentant]

1 minute ago, Gebidozo said:

OP, come on.

I understand you wouldn’t trust me or @FredEire because we’re dudes, but @introverted1 is a woman. Why do you ignore what she is saying about being turned off by your interaction methods?

It’s not about mismatched rhythms, it’s about being direct and clear about your intentions.

If you like a girl, you ask her out. Period. You don’t first text her random stuff and delay meeting her ad infinitum. @introverted1 is absolutely right: it looks like you’re keeping her around as an option. 

It's genuinely not a question of mistrust, believe me, and I apologise if that's how it seemed. I understand what all of you are saying, I don't understand why my behaviour would cause this sort of response from her. I didn't do any of it out of postponement or avoidance, I just didn't see the point or feel the need to rush straight to the question, out of the blue, after a random song... I don't like rushing things in general, which is why I take my time with everything.

Anyway, guess it's ultimately irrelevant why, this kind of a rush job is definitely not what I'm looking for. Patience ranks very high on my list of importance, and, objectively speaking, this situation didn't even demand that much from her. Either that, or, again, there was nothing on her end to begin with.

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, Repentant said:

Well, I am being wishy-washy with it, because I'm fumbling in the dark on this one. I genuinely don't see anything clear in this particular case, regardless of how it looks from the outside. As such, I've been easing my way into it, but I did engage in the conversation I started, and would have maintained engagement. But it stopped being up to me. Again, it's been a four-line conversation so far, it could have taken no longer than an afternoon to go through it, but it took three days instead. And, honestly... if she loses interest during a four-line conversation, then that's someone I don't think I'd want to date. Although, again, I'm convinced there was no interest there to begin with in this case.

This is so weird to me... I want to respect my principles precisely because I want to respect myself. I couldn't respect myself if I started behaving in ways which go against my values, and being polite, offering a modicum of basic respect to any human being I encounter, trying to at least not make things worse if I can't make them any better, these are dearly important to me. Filing it under "going against the grain," I guess.

Yeah but the antidote to fumbling in the dark is assertiveness. Prompt, and fairly straight to the point. If they don't meet you there then ok, the interest was passing or just situational and you move on.

But if you're fumbling around for the perfect time then that just serves to kill the attraction if she was up to get to know you a bit better, I think thats the point most are making here.

I don't think its weird to apologise when you've genuinely done something worth apologising for. If I turned up 30 minutes late to a date Id say my bad, sorry I got caught up, or if I was being obnoxious etc. But simply being in a bar and being a bit merry when someone happens to meet you doesnt merit an apology, its human.

[Repentant]

7 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Yeah but the antidote to fumbling in the dark is assertiveness. Prompt, and fairly straight to the point. If they don't meet you there then ok, the interest was passing or just situational and you move on.

But if you're fumbling around for the perfect time then that just serves to kill the attraction if she was up to get to know you a bit better, I think thats the point most are making here.

See, things pretty much are down to unspoken rules and etiquette, I just didn't get the memo that the rules have shifted, yet again =))) Joke aside, again... if these two questions of mine were enough to kill the attraction... then it was hanging by a thread and in complete dissonance with her behaviour Saturday. I don't know, it still seems like an unreasonably short context to put enough of a dent in someone's attraction as to lead to ghosting out of disinterest. If we'd have been chatting for two weeks without a date in sight, then yes, sure, that'd spoil my mood, too! But not literally four text bubbles on a screen after clinging to me an entire night (from what I remember of it and what has been corroborated).

8 minutes ago, FredEire said:

I don't think its weird to apologise when you've genuinely done something worth apologising for. If I turned up 30 minutes late to a date Id say my bad, sorry I got caught up, or if I was being obnoxious etc. But simply being in a bar and being a bit merry when someone happens to meet you doesnt merit an apology, its human.

Which brings me to my next point, this is why I consider it a justified apology, as I was drunk enough to not remember the whole night, and I know I can get really loud and annoying when I'm drunk, which is why I apologised just in case I jumped the shark with the jokes at any point:)) And, again, it's 100% about being polite, brashness is rude as I see it. 

[FredEire]

20 minutes ago, Repentant said:

It's genuinely not a question of mistrust, believe me, and I apologise if that's how it seemed. I understand what all of you are saying, I don't understand why my behaviour would cause this sort of response from her. I didn't do any of it out of postponement or avoidance, I just didn't see the point or feel the need to rush straight to the question, out of the blue, after a random song... I don't like rushing things in general, which is why I take my time with everything.

Anyway, guess it's ultimately irrelevant why, this kind of a rush job is definitely not what I'm looking for. Patience ranks very high on my list of importance, and, objectively speaking, this situation didn't even demand that much from her. Either that, or, again, there was nothing on her end to begin with.

With respect, this sounds like a load of drivel. Early stage dating isnt that deep, its about turning up and showing some initiative to see eachother. If they meet you there cool, and if they dont also cool. But turning it into some big philosophical exercise does nothing to further it.

[FredEire]

4 minutes ago, Repentant said:

See, things pretty much are down to unspoken rules and etiquette, I just didn't get the memo that the rules have shifted, yet again =))) Joke aside, again... if these two questions of mine were enough to kill the attraction... then it was hanging by a thread and in complete dissonance with her behaviour Saturday. I don't know, it still seems like an unreasonably short context to put enough of a dent in someone's attraction as to lead to ghosting out of disinterest. If we'd have been chatting for two weeks without a date in sight, then yes, sure, that'd spoil my mood, too! But not literally four text bubbles on a screen after clinging to me an entire night (from what I remember of it and what has been corroborated).

Which brings me to my next point, this is why I consider it a justified apology, as I was drunk enough to not remember the whole night, and I know I can get really loud and annoying when I'm drunk, which is why I apologised just in case I jumped the shark with the jokes at any point:)) And, again, it's 100% about being polite, brashness is rude as I see it. 

Right, it just seems like you are coming up with a load of stuff to justify the randomness of it. As I said earlier in the thread these kind of encounters often dont go anywhere, but digging into why is pointless.

Whenever I have a similar encounter I just shoot my shot the next day and if I get ghosted or a lackluster reply I just forget about it entirely and move on. There really isnt any "rules".

[Repentant]

Just now, FredEire said:

With respect, this sounds like a load of drivel. Early stage dating isnt that deep, its about turning up and showing some initiative to see eachother. If they meet you there cool, and if they dont also cool. But turning it into some big philosophical exercise does nothing to further it.

Exactly! Beyond all the a posteriori hair splitting I've been doing so far, that's ultimately my point as well, it's about being there and showing initiative! And that's exactly what I've been trying to do for the past three days, the reason why I've been trying to establish a dialogue, to do a bit of an intro for the question. And, don't get me wrong, this is not about plans and schemes and optimal times, it's down to winging it, and going at a pace with which I'm comfortable, letting it be organic. Which is why, again, I can't help but reach the conclusion that it's a mismatch in pace and expectations, which is not a bad thing in itself. Sure, it sucks, but it is what it is at the end of the day. 

[Repentant]

5 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Right, it just seems like you are coming up with a load of stuff to justify the randomness of it. As I said earlier in the thread these kind of encounters often dont go anywhere, but digging into why is pointless.

Whenever I have a similar encounter I just shoot my shot the next day and if I get ghosted or a lackluster reply I just forget about it entirely and move on. There really isnt any "rules".

Yeah, I'm trying to see if there's anything I'm doing wrong, and I've been clinging to this idea of having wasted her time because it made no sense to me and I've genuinely been trying to understand the whys and the hows of it.

Otherwise, as far as the situation itself is concerned, that's clearly been that, and, like... that's that! Nothing more to it, if she'll reply, she'll reply, if not, then she won't. 

[FredEire]

2 minutes ago, Repentant said:

Exactly! Beyond all the a posteriori hair splitting I've been doing so far, that's ultimately my point as well, it's about being there and showing initiative! And that's exactly what I've been trying to do for the past three days, the reason why I've been trying to establish a dialogue, to do a bit of an intro for the question. And, don't get me wrong, this is not about plans and schemes and optimal times, it's down to winging it, and going at a pace with which I'm comfortable, letting it be organic. Which is why, again, I can't help but reach the conclusion that it's a mismatch in pace and expectations, which is not a bad thing in itself. Sure, it sucks, but it is what it is at the end of the day. 

Right. I suppose then then only takeaway in my opinion would be next time dont wait a week, text her the next day with something a bit more solid than a single link to some song you talked about. That way you take the initiative and ride the momentum if there is any.

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, Repentant said:

Yeah, I'm trying to see if there's anything I'm doing wrong, and I've been clinging to this idea of having wasted her time because it made no sense to me and I've genuinely been trying to understand the whys and the hows of it.

Otherwise, as far as the situation itself is concerned, that's clearly been that, and, like... that's that! Nothing more to it, if she'll reply, she'll reply, if not, then she won't. 

Again, it sounds like you think of yourself as being an inconvenience to her, why? You are just two people with a possible romantic connection, nobody is wasting anybodys time when you haven't even going on date one.

[Repentant]

13 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Right. I suppose then then only takeaway in my opinion would be next time dont wait a week, text her the next day with something a bit more solid than a single link to some song you talked about. That way you take the initiative and ride the momentum if there is any.

Guess so! I'll also add "never with someone who randomly hits on me at a bar," because it's proven to be an exercise in futility so far.

12 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Again, it sounds like you think of yourself as being an inconvenience to her, why? You are just two people with a possible romantic connection, nobody is wasting anybodys time when you haven't even going on date one.

I was referring more to what @introverted1 and @Gebidozo were saying, that idea of having wasted time dancing around the question and whittling away her interest. 

[introverted1]

59 minutes ago, Repentant said:

Patience ranks very high on my list of importance

Ugh.  How do we get it through your head that it's not about patience or politeness? 

Again, be her for a moment.  She flirted with you extensively throughout the night you first met.  She signaled her interest. She hoped to hear from you.  She does, but it's a song with no context.  Then she hears from you again.  But still nothing to suggest that you are reciprocating her interest.  So it's not that she is losing patience but rather that she is likely losing the sense that the connection she felt Saturday night was anything more than a result of you being drunk.

There is no reason you couldn't open your first message to her by stating that you enjoyed meeting her and would like to see her again.  Not "hello" which is what you told us here. You could have signaled both a desire to see her AND ask about her week.  

What reads as low interest you posit as politeness and patience.  I think you will miss many opportunities with this mindset.

Good luck. 

ETA:  I want to date men who clear about their interest in me. I don't think I am unique. 

Edited 5 hours ago by introverted1

[Repentant]

10 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Ugh.  How do we get it through your head that it's not about patience or politeness? 

Again, be her for a moment.  She flirted with you extensively throughout the night you first met.  She signaled her interest. She hoped to hear from you.  She does, but it's a song with no context.  Then she hears from you again.  But still nothing to suggest that you are reciprocating her interest.  So it's not that she is losing patience but rather that she is likely losing the sense that the connection she felt Saturday night was anything more than a result of you being drunk.

There is no reason you couldn't open your first message to her by stating that you enjoyed meeting her and would like to see her again.  Not "hello" which is what you told us here. You could have signaled both a desire to see her AND ask about her week.  

What reads as low interest you posit as politeness and patience.  I think you will miss many opportunities with this mindset.

Good luck. 

Ok, yes, I understand that, but why not stick with it for more than a second and see where it goes, then? That's what I don't understand, and I'm sorry if I'm being thick, I'm genuinely not doing this intentionally: if she were that interested in me to begin with, then why not stick with the conversation for more than two text replies to see where it goes? Why would she drop it and ghost when I'm genuinely and (I hope) evidently interested in getting to know her? 

I get your point about it having been a drunk thing as well, but isn't the fact that I'm reaching out with more than a "hi, let's go out" indicative of precisely that it wasn't just a drunk thing? 

I'm genuinely asking these questions, I'm not trying to be a smart-butt.

Edited 5 hours ago by Repentant

[introverted1]

2 minutes ago, Repentant said:

I get your point about it having been a drunk thing as well, but isn't the fact that I'm reaching out with more than a "hi, let's go out" indicative of precisely that it wasn't just a drunk thing? 

No, the fact that you are not asking for a date makes it much more likely it was a just drunk thing. It cements the idea that you're a guy who goes out and gets drunk and then flirts with whoever happens to be nearby.  Then he sends a link to a random song, waits a few days, starts a wandering conversation...  Sounds very much like a guy who is low interest and reaches out when he's bored.

[Repentant]

Just now, introverted1 said:

No, the fact that you are not asking for a date makes it much more likely it was a just drunk thing. It cements the idea that you're a guy who goes out and gets drunk and then flirts with whoever happens to be nearby.  Then he sends a link to a random song, waits a few days, starts a wandering conversation...  Sounds very much like a guy who is low interest and reaches out when he's bored.

Oh, then I'll have to recalibrate my understanding of the limits, thank you. To me, "just a drunk thing" means "I'll most likely never hear from or see that person again, unless by pure happenstance."

[Gebidozo]

11 minutes ago, Repentant said:

why not stick with it for more than a second and see where it goes, then?

But you aren’t seeing where it goes. In order to see where it goes, you have to, as the bare minimum, to ask her out on a date.

 

11 minutes ago, Repentant said:

if she were that interested in me to begin with, then why not stick with the conversation for more than two text replies to see where it goes?

Because you sent her random messages instead of directly asking her out.

Any woman I know would take it as lack of interest and move on.

 

11 minutes ago, Repentant said:

Why would she drop it and ghost when I'm genuinely and (I hope) evidently interested in getting to know her

You totally don’t sound like you’re interested in her.

Dude, if a girl were flirting in a bar like that with me and I were interested in her, I wouldn’t even wait a day. I’d most probably make a move right there and then. Or, at the very least, I’d ask her out the very next day.

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Gebidozo

[introverted1]

Also, I want to point out that she gave you her number and her Insta, which she absolutely would not have done if she was not interested.  

[ExpatInItaly]

Woman here. 

I don't think I have ever, in my life, retraced the steps a man has taken in asking me out and thought, "Gee, he didn't show much intentionality behind Step 3. Get out of my DMs, dude." 

 

[Repentant]

3 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

But you aren’t seeing where it goes. In order to see where it goes, you have to, as the bare minimum, to ask her out on a date.

Exactly, we're two replies in, I didn't even get the chance to! C'mon, now, three texts each is not an unreasonably long starter conversation, nor a droning launch pad for asking out, this is ridiculous... 

7 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Because you sent her random messages instead of directly asking her out.

Any woman I know would take it as lack of interest and move on.

Ok, this I understand is a "me and my rhythm" problem, got it! Dunno how I'll go about it, because it feels very forced, but ok! 

8 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

You totally don’t sound like you’re interested in her.

Dude, if a girl were flirting in a bar like that with me and I were interested in her, I wouldn’t even wait a day. I’d most probably make a move right there and then. Or, at the very least, I’d ask her out the very next day.

If I weren't interested in her, I wouldn't have bothered giving her my number/asking for hers, let alone reach out after three days trying to make conversation. Realistically speaking.

As for the point about the flirting, as @ExpatInItaly has stated from the start, that can just as well mean absolutely nothing. And it most certainly seems to be the case, because, while I understand your point about how not launching directly into asking her out doesn't indicate a lot of outright and directed interest, I don't see how a well-meaning intro to a conversation would be enough to convince someone that there's no interest there. Seriously, it just seems like such an overreaction to me if that were the case. Like... you like the guy (in this case, if she had, indeed, flirted with me because she was interested in more than just warming herself up that night, that would have meant that she LIKED me given how much she did), maybe he's slower, maybe he's cautious, maybe he's had his fair share of crap and is trying to ease himself back into it... why kick away the hand he's extending before he even has time to complete the motion, let alone before you get to see what he's trying to do with it?

[Repentant]

16 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Also, I want to point out that she gave you her number and her Insta, which she absolutely would not have done if she was not interested.  

Oh, that means pretty much nothing around here... I understand what you're saying, but eeeveryone has an Insta around here, and eeeveryone shares their Insta. Same with phone numbers, except people don't usually bother with those, because they have Insta.

[Repentant]

19 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Also, I want to point out that she gave you her number and her Insta, which she absolutely would not have done if she was not interested.  

Sorry for double-posting, I just remembered something which further goes to my point about it having been pretty clear that I'm interested: I made an Instagram account that very night, specifically to accommodate her - she mentioned she prefers Insta as her main tool for comms, and I begrudgingly made an account. Solely for her, no other interest in that platform whatsoever. 

[Repentant]

18 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Woman here. 

I don't think I have ever, in my life, retraced the steps a man has taken in asking me out and thought, "Gee, he didn't show much intentionality behind Step 3. Get out of my DMs, dude." 

 

I'm sorry, I'm not exactly sure to what aspect you're referring. Are you referring to my overthinking this whole thing?

[ExpatInItaly]

2 minutes ago, Repentant said:

 Are you referring to my overthinking this whole thing?

Your overthinking. 

Are you prone to that in other areas of your life? 

[Repentant]

Just now, ExpatInItaly said:

Your overthinking. 

Are you prone to that in other areas of your life? 

Oh, boy, am I!:)) But, to be fair, the only points I've overthought have been reaching out in the first place, and now this post-mortem:)) Everything else has been organic, "what I feel like doing" stuff.

I do have control over my overthinking, usually use it more as an analytical tool when trying to dissect situations, otherwise I mostly go with my gut.

[Gebidozo]

53 minutes ago, Repentant said:

Exactly, we're two replies in, I didn't even get the chance to! C'mon, now, three texts each is not an unreasonably long starter conversation, nor a droning launch pad for asking out, this is ridiculous... 

No, what’s ridiculous is that you keep texting her random stuff instead of asking her out.

What “chance” could you possibly need beyond her flirtatious behavior, her giving you her number, and her actually taking the time to reply to your passive and hesitant messages?!

Dude, we’re going in circles. And you still refuse to listen to what four different people are trying to tell you.

 

 

[Repentant]

Just now, Gebidozo said:

No, what’s ridiculous is that you keep texting her random stuff instead of asking her out.

What “chance” could you possibly need beyond her flirtatious behavior, her giving you her number, and her actually taking the time to reply to your passive and hesitant messages?!

Dude, we’re going in circles. And you still refuse to listen to what four different people are trying to tell you.

 

 

Fine, then I guess this whole thing isn't for me, because it sure as hell feels like a total mess. If you do too much too soon, it's bad. If you take your time, it's bad. If you do just enough, you find out you were barking up the wrong tree all along. It's just endless frustration with zero return on investment. Yep, think I'm done.