Why do most of the women I date want sex, but not a relationship?

[Repentant]

First off, dunno if this is the right place for this, as it's more of a general thing and not necessarily related to a specific occurrence, and I want to make it clear that I'm not asking from the perspective of "what's wrong with them," but "what am I not doing right."

So, for a bit of context, women I've (M34) dated have clearly been attracted to me, and dates were always at least "nice." I've always made my intentions clear, namely that I date with the purpose of finding a long-term relationship, as my main desire is having a life partner. However, most of the time things don't evolve beyond the physical. This is not to mean "we have sex and that puts them off," but that they don't want the relationship part. It hasn't happened exclusively in every case so far (I've had several relationships, but unfortunately I've yet to find someone who matches me for something permanent-ish), but it most certainly happened in a majority of cases.

As a more recent example, I've broken up with a friend whom I've loved romantically (previous post covers this, if you're interested in more details). We had a discussion about this, I told her my feelings aren't going anywhere as long as she's still an active element of my life, no matter what I tried. I'd initially thought that there wasn't even attraction toward me on her end, as she's always been relatively ambiguous about things, but the conversation ended with her... well, for lack of a better word and with the intent of not becoming too graphic: it ended with her hitting on me, intensely (a lot of bodily contact, even some kissing) and admitting that the attraction has been there from the start. This left me even more confused about the entire thing, as she still concluded with a "no" to a relationship, but the physical bit seemed to not be an issue for her. And this is within the greater context of us having been good friends and getting along very well.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I have my things in order, I'm independent and stable, I'm open-minded, I genuinely like listening to people and getting to know them, I try to be as respectful as possible (within reason and with limits, i.e. I don't allow myself to become a doormat), I embrace my empathy, I feel and process my feelings, I've done my best to heal from past trauma and at least stow away my baggage, physically healthy, intellectually curious, passionate, I'm no Ryan Reynolds (or whatever other handsome guy, I don't know these things) but I'm not a sack of potatoes, either... I dunno... I'm more than ready and willing for a relationship, I think I'd make for a good life partner as I even prefer the post-honeymoon phase of relationships, when things settle down and familiarity takes stage, and I've never been ambiguous about my desires or intentions.

Edited 14 hours ago by Repentant

[Repentant]

Adding this as a comment, as I can't edit: I've never accepted casual sex. I need to have at least some sort of emotional connection to reach the point where I'm ready for that, and have no interest in sex for the sake of sex. With this said, however, I've had one case where she told me she wanted a relationship as well, we dated for a while and got physical, things were going well (with the physical part, at least), then she pulled a 180 and told me that, actually, she didn't want a relationship. I tried to understand what made her change her mind, and all she told me sounded like a genuine "it's not you, it's me." She did want to continue things as they were, however she didn't push for it because I was clear that I'm not looking for a fwb type deal.

Edited 11 hours ago by Repentant

[Gebidozo]

I might be completely wrong here since I don’t have much information, but it might be that your statement about finding a life partner scares away some women.

Many people feel pressured when a relationship begins with the declaration of looking for a life partner. They want to take things gradually, see where the relationship takes them naturally, rather than make a grand commitment right away.

It’s not about wanting sex but not a relationship, it’s more about feeling stressed from the narrow choice of either everything or nothing. 
 

[Gaeta]

I think the sex has no role in the equation.

See, it takes a while to get to know if someone is compatible. These women would have left, sex or no sex. By the time they figured out the connection is not happenning for them, you had sex already. 

If you don't like women leaving after sex then don't have sex early, wait for a good connection.  

Maybe when you like someone you get all excited too fast, slow down. Date, get to know them. Even if you are looking for something long term you can't skip steps, you still got to court and date her and let attraction and connection to grow.

[Repentant]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

I might be completely wrong here since I don’t have much information, but it might be that your statement about finding a life partner scares away some women.

Many people feel pressured when a relationship begins with the declaration of looking for a life partner. They want to take things gradually, see where the relationship takes them naturally, rather than make a grand commitment right away.

It’s not about wanting sex but not a relationship, it’s more about feeling stressed from the narrow choice of either everything or nothing. 
 

Thank you for your reply, yet again very insightful! 

I'm trying to think back to how I've presented my intentions, as you do make a good point about this having the potential of intimidating someone, but with the exception of a recent situation when someone started hitting on me hard and I told them directly I'm not really interested in playing around (after which they continued trying to pursue sex with me...), I don't think I've ever been vehement about it "do or die" like. I frame my intentions as "I'm ultimately looking for something serious, but I'm not rushing into anything and I want to see where things go and how we fit together." I really do want something long-lasting, which is why I don't see any other way of going about things. I've seen too many cases where relationships were established from very early on, leading to a very bad time for both parties. 

Other than that, the only thing I make clear is that I'm not a "date around" kind of guy, as I prefer to focus on one thing at a time, I never rush sex (I need at least 5-6 dates to figure things out), and the only thing I need from the start is clear communication. This is not to say that I need a "yes" or a "no" from the first date, but I most certainly don't need "yes, but no, but yes, but maybe, but no, but possibly, but eh, but hmm," etc. in my life. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Repentant

[Repentant]

46 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I think the sex has no role in the equation.

See, it takes a while to get to know if someone is compatible. These women would have left, sex or no sex. By the time they figured out the connection is not happenning for them, you had sex already. 

If you don't like women leaving after sex then don't have sex early, wait for a good connection.  

Maybe when you like someone you get all excited too fast, slow down. Date, get to know them. Even if you are looking for something long term you can't skip steps, you still got to court and date her and let attraction and connection to grow.

Thank you for your reply! 

To be very honest, I seldom rush sex. I actually think I've been rejected a couple of times precisely because I felt that it was too early for sex (3rd or 4th dates). I think I have a sort of sweet spot for it, no earlier than 5-6 dates, no later than 6 months in. Unfortunately, my dynamic is very specific, in that I do need the connection to happen first, but if the physical part doesn't happen relatively soon after that, then I tend to lose interest and things pretty much turn platonic on my end. 

I do get excited when I meet someone who tickles my fancy, yes, but it manifests through wanting to spend more time together, through wanting to do more things together, basically I want to deepen the connection when it happens. Plus it tends to happen pretty rarely nowadays, so even more so. I have no problem "staying dry" for very long periods of time (my longest was about 6 years or so), precisely because the physical is so deeply tied to the emotional for me. Sex has never been "it" for me, if that makes sense - I enjoy it greatly when it does happen, but it's never my main goal. Which, I think, is part of why I'm so confused. 

[Sony12]

I doubt many of these women go into the situation with you completely against the idea of a potential relationship developing. They probably just decided against it once you two got to know each other better.  Many people enjoy acting on the initial chemistry they are feeling and that often can lead to sex very early on in the getting to know each other process. Once they do get to know each other better though they begin to get a better idea if they actually want a relationship.

It also depends on what types of people you are going on dates with. Certain dating pairings lead itself more to sex than an actual relationship. For instance I mainly date women older than me and often times women going on dates with men a decade or more younger than them are going to be putting the having a little bit of fun over building an actual relationship with this person. Etc....etc.....

[Gaeta]

It takes time to meet someone you have to accept it. You do "you". When l was dating l addressed exclusivity after 3-4 dates. Some thought it's too short and waited 3 months to address it. If it worked for them, sure. It was not for me. I did my thing and l met my someone. I probably went on 75 different dates before meeting him but it was all ok. I knew it was gonna take time.

[Repentant]

1 minute ago, Sony12 said:

I doubt many of these women go into the situation with you completely against the idea of a potential relationship developing. They probably just decided against it once you two got to know each other better.  Many people enjoy acting on the initial chemistry they are feeling and that often can lead to sex very early on in the getting to know each other process. Once they do get to know each other better though they begin to get a better idea if they actually want a relationship.

It also depends on what types of people you are going on dates with. Certain dating pairings lead itself more to sex than an actual relationship. For instance I mainly date women older than me and often times women going on dates with men a decade or more younger than them are going to be putting the having a little bit of fun over building an actual relationship with this person. Etc....etc.....

Thank you, I actually can relate to your dynamic, as I also tend to like women at least a couple of years older than me. 

As for acting on the initial chemistry, honestly... the "steamiest" it tends to get on my end is a heavy make-out session if we're still early on. I kinda' like to delay gratification a bit, which generally works well with my desire to get to know someone better and establish a connection first and foremost. Honestly, I prefer it if a relationship develops out of a friendship, as that's a very solid connection upon which to base things.

[Gaeta]

1 minute ago, Repentant said:

Honestly, I prefer it if a relationship develops out of a friendship, as that's a very solid connection upon which to base things.

The risk is...once women put you in the friendzone, they rarely take you out of it. Even after sex.

[Repentant]

1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

It takes time to meet someone you have to accept it. You do "you". When l was dating l addressed exclusivity after 3-4 dates. Some thought it's too short and waited 3 months to address it. If it worked for them, sure. It was not for me. I did my thing and l met my someone. I probably went on 75 different dates before meeting him but it was all ok. I knew it was gonna take time.

Y'know... now that I think about it, I think I may be perceived as a bit of a flirt sometimes. It's entirely unintentional (I'm honestly not entirely sure I could even flirt willingly), it's just that I enjoy to poke and tease as a general conversation dynamic. I'm very keen on verbal interactions, which is why I like to have fun with conversations when I meet someone who's receptive to that. Maybe it's sending out the wrong message, or maybe it even comes off as a bit contradictory to the intentions I present. But if this is the case, then I'll have to figure out how to dial things down a bit... Dunno, just because I'm a "relationship" guy, that doesn't mean I'm "as pure as the driven snow," if that makes sense. I just have complex "unlock conditions," I guess....

[Repentant]

2 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

The risk is...once women put you in the friendzone, they rarely take you out of it. Even after sex.

Honestly, this entire deal is so friggin' complicated, that I have times when I wonder if it's even worth it... Somehow, it seems my dynamic is specific enough to be my main impediment...

[Sony12]

1 minute ago, Repentant said:

Honestly, this entire deal is so friggin' complicated, that I have times when I wonder if it's even worth it... Somehow, it seems my dynamic is specific enough to be my main impediment...

To be honest I think you are worrying too much about it. You just need to set the proper expectations. Sex......make out sessions......and petting and fondling is going to happen when two people are attracted to one another and it really has nothing to do with a relationship forming or not. It's just two people acting on their attraction they are feeling in the moment. You just seem to be getting disappointed when you fool around with someone and a relationship doesn't form as a result of it. That happens to everyone.  For people who are active daters the vast majority of individuals that they will have some form of intimacy with they won't end up 'developing' a relationship with them. They will just have a few encounters with them and then things will dissipate.

It's your choice of what you want to do. If you want to keep on fooling around a little bit with these gals you are just going to have to accept that most of them won't become your girlfriend. 

If you have a difficult time accepting that your encounters aren't leading to anything significantly then you just need to adopt a rule that very little will happen until things become official.

[Repentant]

17 minutes ago, Sony12 said:

To be honest I think you are worrying too much about it. You just need to set the proper expectations. Sex......make out sessions......and petting and fondling is going to happen when two people are attracted to one another and it really has nothing to do with a relationship forming or not. It's just two people acting on their attraction they are feeling in the moment. You just seem to be getting disappointed when you fool around with someone and a relationship doesn't form as a result of it. That happens to everyone.  For people who are active daters the vast majority of individuals that they will have some form of intimacy with they won't end up 'developing' a relationship with them. They will just have a few encounters with them and then things will dissipate.

It's your choice of what you want to do. If you want to keep on fooling around a little bit with these gals you are just going to have to accept that most of them won't become your girlfriend. 

If you have a difficult time accepting that your encounters aren't leading to anything significantly then you just need to adopt a rule that very little will happen until things become official.

I am a bit of a worrywart in regards to how I go about things, that's true. I dislike misleading or confusing people, so I generally try to be as specific as I possibly can. And, yes, it does sting a bit when the dynamic mismatch leads to such situations, precisely because the physical part comes after the emotional in my case, so it's pretty frequent for it to be clear that things are "yeah, let's see where things go relationship-wise" for me, while my date's just acting on the chemistry when we reach that bit. I may need to reconsider how I go about things, but it's become pretty exhausting, and I'm not even sure what I should change. 

I've had situations where my desire to first and foremost get to know someone has been interpreted as "I'm not attracted to you in *that* way" and has been taken very personally, no matter how much I tried to make it clear that, yes, I am attracted to you, but I need more than that before I fully act upon it, which is why I allow the make-out sessions to happen. They're a sort of proof-of-concept. I don't want to rush into the physical precisely because I know that once I get to that part, I'll be in too deep. 

Feels like it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation most of the time...

Edited 4 hours ago by Repentant

[Sony12]

14 minutes ago, Repentant said:

I am a bit of a worrywart in regards to how I go about things, that's true. I dislike misleading or confusing people, so I generally try to be as specific as I possibly can. And, yes, it does sting a bit when the dynamic mismatch leads to such situations, precisely because the physical part comes after the emotional in my case, so it's pretty frequent for it to be clear that things are "yeah, let's see where things go relationship-wise" for me, while my date's just acting on the chemistry when we reach that bit. I may need to reconsider how I go about things, but it's become pretty exhausting, and I'm not even sure what I should change. 

I've had situations where my desire to first and foremost get to know someone has been interpreted as "I'm not attracted to you in *that* way" and has been taken very personally, no matter how much I tried to make it clear that, yes, I am attracted to you, but I need more than that before I fully act upon it, which is why I allow the make-out sessions to happen. They're a sort of proof-of-concept. I don't want to rush into the physical precisely because I know that once I get to that part, I'll be in too deep. 

Well yes if you adopt the stance that you aren't going to fool around too much with these gals because 'you want to get to know them better' you probably are going to make some of them feel like they are being rejected. As that is the complete opposite of how most guys they will be going on dates with will be approaching intimacy.

And by the same token if you do adopt that stance many of the women who will be fine with it and will stick around might not be as good or as experienced in the bedroom as you may want them to be. I'll just say most of the women who will give you a real memorable experience in bed are doing so because they themselves have a lot of experience.

 

[Repentant]

4 minutes ago, Sony12 said:

Well yes if you adopt the stance that you aren't going to fool around too much with these gals because 'you want to get to know them better' you probably are going to make some of them feel like they are being rejected. As that is the complete opposite of how most guys they will be going on dates with will be approaching intimacy.

And by the same token if you do adopt that stance many of the women who will be fine with it and will stick around might not be as good or as experienced in the bedroom as you may want them to be. I'll just say most of the women who will give you a real memorable experience in bed are doing so because they themselves have a lot of experience.

 

Good point, I guess it's unavoidable... And, yeah, I had feared that I may be going against the grain in how and what I want to get out of these types of interactions when compared to overall trends nowadays. Who doesn't like an uphill battle...

As for the interactions themselves, I honestly don't have an issue either way. I don't care about how many or how few partners someone has had, or how exciting or inexperienced someone may be. All I care about is transparency and honesty - no undisclosed STDs, no deception in regards to intentions, no cheating, and no "I didn't want to hurt your feelings by telling you the truth." A lie hurts more than any truth as far as I'm concerned. Plus I'm versatile and I've taken full advantage of the relationships I've had so far. I've learnt a few tricks of my own and can provide enough spices for the full course if needed, so to speak. Also helps that I'm more of a giver.

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Repentant said:

This is not to say that I need a "yes" or a "no" from the first date, but I most certainly don't need "yes, but no, but yes, but maybe, but no, but possibly, but eh, but hmm," etc. in my life. 

I understand. Unfortunately, from my experience, it’s exactly that kind of a pronounced longing for clarity and security that might stress out some people.

For most of my life I’ve been very eager to only have long-termed relationships and have always seen marriage and family as my ultimate goal.

But all my marriages and long-term relationships ended in divorces and breakups. And each time I felt that the woman somehow collapsed under the weight of my lofty expectations.

If you declare your goals even earlier, say, during the first few months of a sexual connection, then your potential partners might get scared off already at that stage.

If there is anything I’ve learned from my relationship failures it’s the realization that setting goals and timelines too early brings nothing and might ruin everything.

The more control we desire, the less control we actually have.

 

[Gebidozo]

57 minutes ago, Repentant said:

I've had situations where my desire to first and foremost get to know someone has been interpreted as "I'm not attracted to you in *that* way" and has been taken very personally, no matter how much I tried to make it clear that, yes, I am attracted to you, but I need more than that before I fully act upon it, which is why I allow the make-out sessions to happen. They're a sort of proof-of-concept. I don't want to rush into the physical precisely because I know that once I get to that part, I'll be in too deep. 

Well, then maybe you simply need to find a woman who would be on the same wave with you there. Not everyone will be thrilled about that kind of approach.

For example, I probably wouldn’t date a woman who’d be delaying sex like that. Especially if she said she’d need to know me better first, because sex means she’d be in too deep.

I might interpret that as a lack of attraction on her side, but, more importantly, it would be a sign of a fundamental sexual incompatibility. To me, sex is the foundation of attraction and the first step you make to get to know a potential partner, not some sort of a relationship statement that happens after people have already become friends of sorts. That would pretty much kill the excitement for me.

Now, not to sound sexist, but if even I, as a guy, would feel somewhat rejected if a woman had that attitude, perhaps a woman would feel downright insulted by the fact that a guy isn’t all over her when there is a clear opportunity.

[Repentant]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

I understand. Unfortunately, from my experience, it’s exactly that kind of a pronounced longing for clarity and security that might stress out some people.

For most of my life I’ve been very eager to only have long-termed relationships and have always seen marriage and family as my ultimate goal.

But all my marriages and long-term relationships ended in divorces and breakups. And each time I felt that the woman somehow collapsed under the weight of my lofty expectations.

If you declare your goals even earlier, say, during the first few months of a sexual connection, then your potential partners might get scared off already at that stage.

If there is anything I’ve learned from my relationship failures it’s the realization that setting goals and timelines too early brings nothing and might ruin everything.

The more control we desire, the less control we actually have.

 

I get what you mean, yes, and I fully understand how demanding commitment and certainty before they are available would put anyone off, even me, if I'm honest. But it's a bit more nuanced than that on my end.

It's not necessarily about security and control, it's clarity and intentionality. I don't expect anyone to commit to me while being uncertain - it's why I somewhat dislike the concept of marriage, precisely because I see it as entirely too restrictive. Marriage, as far as I'm concerned, should be somewhat of a secondary consideration, something like "we've been together for [x] years, it's clear to both of us this is it, might as well put it on paper." Otherwise, I fully believe everyone has the right to change their mind and I want any potential partner to have complete liberty to do so at any time, which is why I believe marriage should come only when both parties are at the very least 85% certain there's nothing the other could do now which would put them off entirely, after we've both seen the "ugly" and fully internalised that we're 100% fine with it. And this is doubly so as far as having kids is concerned. Besides the fact that the world as it is nowadays isn't exactly the kind of context in which I'd want to drag another consciousness, I REALLY need to know my partner before I'd even consider it. 

My observation was more related to something like the Avoidant Dance - I draw in, she pulls away, I pull away, she draws in, or keeping someone hooked but at arm's length, like my former friend did, apparently. Again, I don't expect anyone to make up their mind with only a few weeks or months of experiencing the interaction, but I greatly appreciate someone who genuinely wants to make up their mind, y'know? Someone who wants to invest enough to reach the point of seeing what and how, who isn't just looking for sex and selling snake oil to get it, things like that.

53 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Well, then maybe you simply need to find a woman who would be on the same wave with you there. Not everyone will be thrilled about that kind of approach.

For example, I probably wouldn’t date a woman who’d be delaying sex like that. Especially if she said she’d need to know me better first, because sex means she’d be in too deep.

I might interpret that as a lack of attraction on her side, but, more importantly, it would be a sign of a fundamental sexual incompatibility. To me, sex is the foundation of attraction and the first step you make to get to know a potential partner, not some sort of a relationship statement that happens after people have already become friends of sorts. That would pretty much kill the excitement for me.

Now, not to sound sexist, but if even I, as a guy, would feel somewhat rejected if a woman had that attitude, perhaps a woman would feel downright insulted by the fact that a guy isn’t all over her when there is a clear opportunity.

You make a good point... In my mind, I wouldn't even try dating if there wasn't some attraction there to begin with. I'm the "swipe right like it costs money" type when I use dating apps. I may have expressed things a bit too vehemently, I guess, as I do realise if I find someone attractive even before the connection happens, it's just that I'd rather not act upon it until it does. In my experience, sex kinda' tends to complicate things, and I'd rather complicate things only after we're both at least sure we'd like to see where things go and if there's the potential for something long-lasting. 

Yeah, I'm now pretty much convinced I'm going against the grain... Dammit... I've played 4X games less complicated than this...

Edited 2 hours ago by Repentant

[Els]

How many people have you dated? 

I'm not saying that you need to use a more shotgun approach - it's normal and IMO healthy to take your time with each person and not to date people you don't like just for the sake of dating.

But if that number is less than, say, 10, it might just mean that you don't have a large sample size. The vast majority of people aren't going to be compatible with each other for the long term, and unfortunately that's just how it is. So it might not even be you doing something "wrong", just that statistically it might require more attempts. 

That being said, if everyone you meet says that they don't do relationships (not just with you), it could also be how you're meeting people. How did you find the women you dated? Some online apps tend to be more of a "hookup" site, for instance - while people can and do find LTR partners from them, it can often be a numbers game just because the odds aren't on your side (because most people who sign up to them are looking for a hookup).

Personally I think it's fine for anyone of any gender to want to wait for sex. It may make you incompatible with some people, but you shouldn't have sex that you don't feel comfortable having just to protect your date's ego.

No 4X game is more complicated than the game of life. For everyone.  

Edited 2 hours ago by Els

[Repentant]

17 minutes ago, Els said:

How many people have you dated? 

I'm not saying that you need to use a more shotgun approach - it's normal and IMO healthy to take your time with each person and not to date people you don't like just for the sake of dating.

But if that number is less than, say, 10 at your age, it might just mean that you don't have a large sample size. The vast majority of people aren't going to be compatible with each other for the long term, and unfortunately that's just how it is. So it might not even be you doing something "wrong", just that statistically it might require more attempts. 

That being said, if everyone you meet says that they don't do relationships (not just with you), it could also be how you're meeting people. How did you find the women you dated? Some online apps tend to be more of a "hookup" site, for instance - while people can and do find LTR partners from them, it can often be a numbers game just because the odds aren't on your side (because most people who sign up to them are looking for a hookup).

 

Hmm, I'd have to think about it for a bit, but most certainly more than 10. There haven't been too many, mainly because I go for longer-term stuff - my longest (and first, incidentally) relationship so far has lasted 6 years, my shortest 5-6 months, with most lasting at least a year. I am aware of the fact that compatibility is rare, especially because I'm a very "specific" person in terms of personality and such. Plus it isn't very common for me to be attracted to someone, either, so I'm certainly not expecting it to happen every other day. Huh, thank you, I think this may have helped me realise that it also amplifies the disappointment when I do happen to be attracted to someone and nothing comes of it.

As for how I meet the women I'd be interested in dating, it's mostly a random occurrence nowadays, to be perfectly honest. Friends of friends, people who catch my eye at a bar/at the supermarket/etc. (although this one's VERY rare as I don't want to bother anyone), former (very important) co-workers, stuff like that. I did try the apps for a while, and it became pretty clear early on that Tinder's not for me. I mostly used OK Cupid after that (before it turned into a Freemium game) and that's where I landed most of my dates until I was about, say, 28-29 years old. Even once managed to land a date using reddit, and that was the one which lasted 6 months (ended due to "objective" reasons, she had some unaddressed trauma from her past relationship and it became insurmountable for me).

Edit: thank you! I do try to not hurt feelings more than it's absolutely necessary, so to speak, which is why I always try my best to communicate my side of things clearly and in a timely manner. I don't do "it's not you, it's me" unless I really mean it, y'know?

And, yeah, very good point... Absolutely exhausting at times...

Edited 2 hours ago by Repentant