Dealing With Flaking

[FredEire]

Hi all,

So its not been a very fortunate year for me dating wise, but recently things seemed to have taken a bit of a turn for the better and flowing a bit more, in my personal and my romantic life. I made a couple of connections which turned out to be casual but I went out a bit, made more connections and overall things starting feeling a lot looser and easier.

Then (Im not sure why but these things tend to happen at once) a girl Id met ages ago at an event replied to my Instagram story and asked "why we'd never met up for a drink".

I remember at the time I was talking to a couple of girls there, both interactions were flirty and while I texted the other girl and nothing really came of it, when I looked up this girls Instagram I saw a few pictures of her and some guy and decided she was probably taken and just seemed flirty for the sake of a flirt, and never ended up messaging.

Fast forward a few more days and we met up for a drink. She was very flirty again and it became clear there wasn't a boyfriend in the picture. It turned out she thought I was probably seeing the other girl and had wondered why I'd never messaged her. We ended up kissing and it was overall a good night.

Since then there was a lot of back and forth texting, she was really engaged and it seemed to be going well. We arranged to meet up this weekend and when it came to the day, she said it was that time of the month and she wasn't feeling well, I said that was totally fine and she asked if we could meet up today (Sunday), but we had a vague time of 4-5.

I texted her in the afternoon (I know in hindsight too late) asking her if she was feeling better today. She said "a little but its raining outside and Im really comfortable in my house", or something to that effect. It was raining a little but honestly not a lot, and as it cleared up I went for a walk and sent a picture of the clear sky, planning to follow up asking if she was still on and where we could meet etc.

She didnt respond for maybe another 5 hours, way after we were meant to meet, and basically just sent me a sticker of a cat meme. No mention that we were meant to meet up or any acknowledgement of anything.

Now for my part I could have definitely been firmer with the plans, or just left it for next week, but I did actually want to see her today. But I'm disappointed after a good start it just devolved into flakiness so quickly, and went from initially quite promising to kind of dead in the water so quickly.

It just seems to be a pattern for me, especially this year. Great start turns into inconsistent communication, flakiness and then poof the connection is dead all of a sudden. I get its just part of dating but it makes me cynical and totally overanalyse the beginning stages because it feels like I have to be perfect at the beginning stages of getting to know someone, or it all gets off track all of a sudden. It's exhausting, and I recognise that being cynical or too stiff is something that kills momentum it itself.

 

Edited Sunday at 10:02 PM by FredEire

[Gebidozo]

4 hours ago, FredEire said:

Great start turns into inconsistent communication, flakiness and then poof the connection is dead all of a sudden.

Your mistake is calling such connections “great starts”.

It wasn’t a great start, because it wasn’t a start at all. It was just a nice date with some sparks that you heavily overanalyzed and for some reason expected to turn into something serious.

You understand it yourself:

4 hours ago, FredEire said:

I get its just part of dating but it makes me cynical and totally overanalyse the beginning stages

The only mistake here is that I wouldn’t even call this “beginning stages”. For something to be a beginning, it needs to have a continuation. Since it is always unknown in such cases whether there will be a continuation or not, why think of it as a beginning? Think of it as a nice little romantic event without any expectations or any strings attached.

5 hours ago, FredEire said:

it feels like I have to be perfect at the beginning stages of getting to know someone

On the contrary, it’s your overly serious approach to this, your disproportionate efforts, and your constant overthinking that makes this kind of connection more likely to dwindle and die.

Let’s put it this way. Probably 85% or so of such flirty dates end up without developing into relationships. Your high expectations and overanalyzing further increase that possibility to 95%.

So the very first thing you need to do is stop putting pressure on yourself, because the other person will feel this pressure and react accordingly. Enter every date and have every kiss without any expectations. And let it flow naturally, be yourself. If it doesn’t work, remember that it’s because most such things don’t work. But at least your chances will be higher if you relax.

[ExpatInItaly]

6 hours ago, FredEire said:

Now for my part I could have definitely been firmer with the plans

I don't think this would have changed anything in this case. 

It was already pretty clear that she'd decided she was going to stay home, first because she wasn't feeling well and then because it had been raining. This one was out of your hands. 

 

[FredEire]

9 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Your mistake is calling such connections “great starts”.

It wasn’t a great start, because it wasn’t a start at all. It was just a nice date with some sparks that you heavily overanalyzed and for some reason expected to turn into something serious.

You understand it yourself:

The only mistake here is that I wouldn’t even call this “beginning stages”. For something to be a beginning, it needs to have a continuation. Since it is always unknown in such cases whether there will be a continuation or not, why think of it as a beginning? Think of it as a nice little romantic event without any expectations or any strings attached.

On the contrary, it’s your overly serious approach to this, your disproportionate efforts, and your constant overthinking that makes this kind of connection more likely to dwindle and die.

Let’s put it this way. Probably 85% or so of such flirty dates end up without developing into relationships. Your high expectations and overanalyzing further increase that possibility to 95%.

So the very first thing you need to do is stop putting pressure on yourself, because the other person will feel this pressure and react accordingly. Enter every date and have every kiss without any expectations. And let it flow naturally, be yourself. If it doesn’t work, remember that it’s because most such things don’t work. But at least your chances will be higher if you relax.

It wasn't always like this.

Dating used to be a ton of fun. Yes there was always damp squibs but in between that I got to know a lot of nice girls. Sometimes it would go somewhere further, sometimes it would fizzle out after a couple of meetings. As you said, that's fine because the vast majority of things don't turn into something serious.

But back then for the most part everyone I met was nice. The last couple of years I've had far more encounters where the person I've met was just straight up rude, didn't have basic respect for my time, etc. I've had cases of girls storming off on dates because they didnt like where I brought them and calling me an a**h*** the next day, or leaving mid-date because they decided my dating history meant I was either a player or an incel and going into a rant about how theyd needed therapy for their exes, etc. It's exhausting.

And I'm not expecting it to turn into something serious every time, just hopeful that when two people meet and have a bit of a spark they both have a will to get to know eachother and see where it goes, even if they realise after a couple of meetings they aren't compatible etc. I dont think thats unreasonable right?

Like it used to be pretty clear when something was a damp squib, and when it would probably lead somewhere at least for a while. Nowadays things that seem to have a bit of initial promise generally dont get off the ground even slightly.

And I'm not making massive efforts here above and beyond. Im not turning up with a bunch of flowers and inviting her to meet my parents after a good first date. I'm just seeing if after we both seemed to have a nice time, we can meet up and maybe have a nice time again and see where it goes. I don't think that's anything particularly crazy.

[FredEire]

8 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I don't think this would have changed anything in this case. 

It was already pretty clear that she'd decided she was going to stay home, first because she wasn't feeling well and then because it had been raining. This one was out of your hands. 

 

Yeah from what she said initially you may be right.

I would have appreciated an apology or just a bit more clarity than a cat sticker though, lol.

[Sony12]

16 hours ago, FredEire said:

Hi all,

So its not been a very fortunate year for me dating wise, but recently things seemed to have taken a bit of a turn for the better and flowing a bit more, in my personal and my romantic life. I made a couple of connections which turned out to be casual but I went out a bit, made more connections and overall things starting feeling a lot looser and easier.

Then (Im not sure why but these things tend to happen at once) a girl Id met ages ago at an event replied to my Instagram story and asked "why we'd never met up for a drink".

I remember at the time I was talking to a couple of girls there, both interactions were flirty and while I texted the other girl and nothing really came of it, when I looked up this girls Instagram I saw a few pictures of her and some guy and decided she was probably taken and just seemed flirty for the sake of a flirt, and never ended up messaging.

Fast forward a few more days and we met up for a drink. She was very flirty again and it became clear there wasn't a boyfriend in the picture. It turned out she thought I was probably seeing the other girl and had wondered why I'd never messaged her. We ended up kissing and it was overall a good night.

Since then there was a lot of back and forth texting, she was really engaged and it seemed to be going well. We arranged to meet up this weekend and when it came to the day, she said it was that time of the month and she wasn't feeling well, I said that was totally fine and she asked if we could meet up today (Sunday), but we had a vague time of 4-5.

I texted her in the afternoon (I know in hindsight too late) asking her if she was feeling better today. She said "a little but its raining outside and Im really comfortable in my house", or something to that effect. It was raining a little but honestly not a lot, and as it cleared up I went for a walk and sent a picture of the clear sky, planning to follow up asking if she was still on and where we could meet etc.

She didnt respond for maybe another 5 hours, way after we were meant to meet, and basically just sent me a sticker of a cat meme. No mention that we were meant to meet up or any acknowledgement of anything.

Now for my part I could have definitely been firmer with the plans, or just left it for next week, but I did actually want to see her today. But I'm disappointed after a good start it just devolved into flakiness so quickly, and went from initially quite promising to kind of dead in the water so quickly.

It just seems to be a pattern for me, especially this year. Great start turns into inconsistent communication, flakiness and then poof the connection is dead all of a sudden. I get its just part of dating but it makes me cynical and totally overanalyse the beginning stages because it feels like I have to be perfect at the beginning stages of getting to know someone, or it all gets off track all of a sudden. It's exhausting, and I recognise that being cynical or too stiff is something that kills momentum it itself.

 

Sounds like she may have just been wanting to hookup. If you said something like 'want me to come over' when she said it's comfy in my house there is probably a decent chance she would have said yes.

[FredEire]

16 minutes ago, Sony12 said:

Sounds like she may have just been wanting to hookup. If you said something like 'want me to come over' when she said it's comfy in my house there is probably a decent chance she would have said yes.

She was apparently on a painful period so I doubt it in this case.

[Sony12]

Just now, FredEire said:

She was apparently on a painful period so I doubt it in this case.

Maybe but people tend to become less social and more set in their ways as they get older. Part of your problem recently with dating is that you might want to be as on the go and out doing things with women now as you were when you all were five to ten years younger. A lot of times people once they get out of their wild child phase really do just enjoy spending time at home and have someone to watch a tv show with.

[FredEire]

11 minutes ago, Sony12 said:

Maybe but people tend to become less social and more set in their ways as they get older. Part of your problem recently with dating is that you might want to be as on the go and out doing things with women now as you were when you all were five to ten years younger. A lot of times people once they get out of their wild child phase really do just enjoy spending time at home and have someone to watch a tv show with.

Perhaps. But still I'm not going to suggest a first meetup at my/her place unless its pretty clear we're both looking to just hook up.

I have absolutely no problem chilling and watching a movie with someone I've been dating for a while haha. I think at any age its normal to have the first couple of dates in a public setting unless you've been on a hookup app and thats the arrangement.

The last girl I dated more long term for example was 33 and eventually most of our meetups was just chilling at her place after we'd finished work, which was totally fine by me. But the first couple of times we met up at bars and then the cinema. It's partly just a safety thing, which I totally get. From your postings on here it seems like you mostly connect with women who are looking for a guy to discreetly come over and give them a good time. Which is a certain niche of people but I wouldn't say its the norm.

Edited Monday at 02:46 PM by FredEire

[Sony12]

33 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Perhaps. But still I'm not going to suggest a first meetup at my/her place unless its pretty clear we're both looking to just hook up.

I have absolutely no problem chilling and watching a movie with someone I've been dating for a while haha. I think at any age its normal to have the first couple of dates in a public setting unless you've been on a hookup app and thats the arrangement.

The last girl I dated more long term for example was 33 and eventually most of our meetups was just chilling at her place after we'd finished work, which was totally fine by me. But the first couple of times we met up at bars and then the cinema. It's partly just a safety thing, which I totally get. From your postings on here it seems like you mostly connect with women who are looking for a guy to discreetly come over and give them a good time. Which is a certain niche of people but I wouldn't say its the norm.

And nothing wrong with that either. One thing to remember though is that the dating world isn't kind these days to people who are actually looking for relationships. What you are experiencing is what most people who are looking for actual relationships are experiencing. There is a lot of truth to the fact that the good ones are often already taken and a lot of times once people get out of the mindsets they had during their college age years many people who are single are often single for a reason.

Edited Monday at 03:15 PM by Sony12

[FredEire]

18 minutes ago, Sony12 said:

And nothing wrong with that either. One thing to remember though is that the dating world isn't kind these days to people who are actually looking for relationships. What you are experiencing is what most people who are looking for actual relationships are experiencing. There is a lot of truth to the fact that the good ones are often already taken and a lot of times once people get out of the mindsets they had during their college age years many people who are single are often single for a reason.

No, not at all. My point is just that hookup dating is a niche where both people are clear from before they've even met what's going down. Certain things would apply that don't apply to people meeting in a more regular setting.

Indeed I agree with you there, unfortunately. You need thick skin but it's challenging to do that while still genuinely being open to something positive. Thats what Im contending with I suppose, realism that youre going to run into a lot of silliness especially 30+, while still trying to hope for the best and have a genuinely open mind and give people the benefit of the doubt.

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, FredEire said:

And I'm not expecting it to turn into something serious every time, just hopeful that when two people meet and have a bit of a spark they both have a will to get to know eachother and see where it goes, even if they realise after a couple of meetings they aren't compatible etc. I dont think thats unreasonable right?

Honestly? It is a bit unreasonable. Of course there is nothing wrong with wanting that, but let’s be realistic: most such sparks just remain sparks, and in most cases people don’t feel the need to try and turn them into dating or relationship.

There were a lot of such “sparky” encounters in my life. Only very few of them transformed into relationships. Some became brief romances. But most of them led absolutely nowhere. I remember I was once drunk and so infatuated with a girl I’d just met that I asked her to marry me, and she said yes. We kissed passionately and almost slept with each other. The next day, neither of us felt any desire to communicate.

Things like that happen. What I’m trying to say is that you’ll probably feel better if you lower your expectations from those “sparky” moments.

Edited Monday at 03:48 PM by Gebidozo

[FredEire]

25 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Honestly? It is a bit unreasonable. Of course there is nothing wrong with wanting that, but let’s be realistic: most such sparks just remain sparks, and in most cases people don’t feel the need to try and turn them into dating or relationship.

There were a lot of such “sparky” encounters in my life. Only very few of them transformed into relationships. Some became brief romances. But most of them led absolutely nowhere. I remember I was once drunk and so infatuated with a girl I’d just met that I asked her to marry me, and she said yes. We kissed passionately and almost slept with each other. The next day, neither of us felt any desire to communicate.

Things like that happen. What I’m trying to say is that you’ll probably feel better if you lower your expectations from those “sparky” moments.

I get you.

It's just that the least I expect from such encounters is decent, basic communication, you know?

Your example sounds like a classic case of over-commital. I'd never do anything like that these days or go beyond saying I had a nice time after a first date and telling her Id like to do it again sometime. I may be wrong but I honestly dont think Im going OTT.

I've had encounters which went well at first and the girl reached out to say she wasn't feeling it in the end/was getting more serious with someone else, etc. Which I would always really appreciate and I wish more people did. Its a clean, respectful, adult way of leaving things and I never have any hard feelings about that.

But like I said in OP the normal thing is we're talking a lot and then it suddenly goes radio silent with no explanation, or in some cases the girl gets straight up nasty if she doesn't get her way etc.

I want a second date if I thought the girl seemed like a decent, adult person on the first date and we had some good chemistry. The fact that so often turns out not to be the case makes it hard to go into new encounters with much optimism, that's my main point.

Edited Monday at 04:11 PM by FredEire

[Els]

Wow, I actually felt like that was SUPER rude on her part! If she's asked to meet at 4-5pm and you agreed, then cancelling because of "rain" is pretty dodgy. Cancelling and not even bothering to say clearly that it's cancelled or answer texts around the time of the meeting is even worse. 

Like, I get that she wasn't feeling it, but at least have the decency to say that instead of not responding during a planned meet?

That being said, I feel like you really shouldn't have bothered once she made the rain excuse. It shouldn't all be on you to keep pursuing her. She needs to reciprocate after a certain point, otherwise it's just going to be a waste of your time IMO.

[FredEire]

22 minutes ago, Els said:

Wow, I actually felt like that was SUPER rude on her part! If she's asked to meet at 4-5pm and you agreed, then cancelling because of "rain" is pretty dodgy. Cancelling and not even bothering to say clearly that it's cancelled or answer texts around the time of the meeting is even worse. 

Like, I get that she wasn't feeling it, but at least have the decency to say that instead of not responding during a planned meet?

That being said, I feel like you really shouldn't have bothered once she made the rain excuse. It shouldn't all be on you to keep pursuing her. She needs to reciprocate after a certain point, otherwise it's just going to be a waste of your time IMO.

Yeah I agree, its pretty rude and childish. And there wasn't really any sign of that before, she was super engaged and seemingly interested, invited me out first, immediately agreed to the Saturday plan initially etc.

And I didnt, I pretty much said the day was clearing up with a view to mentioning a time and place when she replied (she usually replies pretty quickly, we live close to eachother and were going to meet locally). Then she suddenly stopped replying and hit me with a cat sticker several hours later lol. I never replied to that.

That's what kind of gets me down, this kind of thing seems to be the norm recently when Im dating. I know when someone is just difficult, weird or just not that interested, but it often seems to devolve into that when its all just "green flags" initially. Also yeah the rudeness winds me up. I know Gebidozo is right when he says its all a bit up in the air initially and it shouldn't bother me, but Im honestly not planning marriages after one date, Im just hoping they might be a respectful adult and we could get to know eachother and see where it goes.

[ExpatInItaly]

15 hours ago, FredEire said:

I would have appreciated an apology or just a bit more clarity than a cat sticker though, lol.

Honestly, I reserve a side-eye for anyone over the age of 14 who uses cat stickers to respond to a message. 

 

[Gebidozo]

12 hours ago, FredEire said:

It's just that the least I expect from such encounters is decent, basic communication, you know?

Of course, I’d like to have that too, but the reality is that people communicate very differently.

You can’t imagine how many times I got frustrated due to being ghosted by a woman. Several times I wanted a second date or sought to turn a one-night stand into something more serious, but instead of clear “yes” or “no” answers all I got was drastically reduced communication or silence.

I stopped being frustrated by that when I realized how hard it was for many women to say “no”. As women themselves explained to me, they tend to reduce communication or ghost because they are afraid that a direct “no” would hurt the man’s feelings or make him respond in an aggressive way.

 

 

 

[FredEire]

4 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Honestly, I reserve a side-eye for anyone over the age of 14 who uses cat stickers to respond to a message. 

 

Hahaha thats a completely fair take  

[FredEire]

4 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Of course, I’d like to have that too, but the reality is that people communicate very differently.

You can’t imagine how many times I got frustrated due to being ghosted by a woman. Several times I wanted a second date or sought to turn a one-night stand into something more serious, but instead of clear “yes” or “no” answers all I got was drastically reduced communication or silence.

I stopped being frustrated by that when I realized how hard it was for many women to say “no”. As women themselves explained to me, they tend to reduce communication or ghost because they are afraid that a direct “no” would hurt the man’s feelings or make him respond in an aggressive way.

 

 

 

Yeah I get this idea. Still I think in reality doing a disappearing act hurts more feelings and if someone flips on you there's always an option to block.

Just IMO ghosting has its reasons but its a lousy way of doing things rather than a different comminication style. I've gently called girls out on it in real life in friend groups etc who said stuff like "if a guy is boring me I will just ghost him", and they seemed a bit surprised like they had never even considered it was pretty rude.

Edited 23 hours ago by FredEire

[Els]

12 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

I stopped being frustrated by that when I realized how hard it was for many women to say “no”. As women themselves explained to me, they tend to reduce communication or ghost because they are afraid that a direct “no” would hurt the man’s feelings or make him respond in an aggressive way.

I understand this concern if he was there in person and she was afraid of him getting physically aggressive. But she's texting him, he's not physically there. Unless the OP has displayed some really egregious behaviour that has made her wary (and I doubt that), I don't think it's reasonable for a woman to be afraid of gently saying no when the person isn't even physically present. If she is truly so anxious about aggression that she can't say no via text, maybe she should be exploring this with a therapist instead of dating.

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, Els said:

I understand this concern if he was there in person and she was afraid of him getting physically aggressive. But she's texting him, he's not physically there. Unless the OP has displayed some really egregious behaviour that has made her wary (and I doubt that), I don't think it's reasonable for a woman to be afraid of gently saying no when the person isn't even physically present. If she is truly so anxious about aggression that she can't say no via text, maybe she should be exploring this with a therapist instead of dating.

I did used to date a girl who said that a guy she met on Bumble started blowing up her phone and telling her he wanted to come and visit her at work, which does sound a bit scary.

But while Im not a woman and so dont really know I'd imagine that kind of thing is hopefully rare enough. Even if someone does get weird you can just block them.

[Els]

14 minutes ago, FredEire said:

I did used to date a girl who said that a guy she met on Bumble started blowing up her phone and telling her he wanted to come and visit her at work, which does sound a bit scary.

But while Im not a woman and so dont really know I'd imagine that kind of thing is hopefully rare enough. Even if someone does get weird you can just block them.

Right, tell them no, block them, and preferably don't give your work address (or home address) to a person you barely know. If he does still show up at her work after that, I'd file a police report - they wouldn't do anything about it yet, but it would start a record that could be used for a restraining order eventually if needed.

Unfortunately it can be a rough world for a woman, but I don't think that ghosting people helps. E.g. with the dude you mentioned, I doubt a cat emoji would lead to a better outcome than saying no.

[Herkamer63]

You sound like me from over a year ago and years past. When you think you met a girl who was really into you and doesn't fully commit to what she agreed to the plans made. From what it sounds like she reeled you in with the old "hey stranger" greeting, because you 2 met a few years ago, too. I don't like that, and for good reason, they're looking for something that's not a relationship. Typically, it's attention and validation from guys that these type of women have no romantic interest in. Yeah, you're good enough as a friend, but anything beyond that, no. However, you don't know if she actually does like you romantically and bothers you for a good portion of the day. Then when she lays it out to you that she's not interested, you're left heart broken and feeling foolish. I've had this happen to me on 3 occasions with 3 women.

For some context about me, I use to be very overweight. Always wanted to be with a woman, but whenever I tried, I failed. I also wanted to be fit. In 2019, I lost a whole bunch of fatty weight, changing my entire wardrobe and my mentality. Just this past year I finally packed on quite a bit of muscle, but I'll wait on that.

Anyway, a year later, the pandemic hit but that's when I ran into the first woman. We'll call her Angela. I knew her from school years ago and our families know each other. Thought it was a good fit. Found out from her she was dealing with the lost of her brother who took his own life and she tried to stop him, so she blamed herself. Also found out Angela used to be engaged a few years prior to a guy who really wasn't a good person to her nor hardly anyone around them (keep this in mind). We went out a few times, had fun, spent hours on end talking, and felt like we were becoming very close. After our last date, and when I was about to go on vacation, I found her deceased brother's birthday was happening, and she went silent, even during my vacation. I got a hold of Angela's sister and brother in-law (who are friends of mine), let them know what was going on because I was concerned that she wasn't doing anything drastic. They acknowledged and understood so they checked on her, and said she was fine, with her even complimenting me. After my vacation, I was going to head to Angela's place to drop off some gifts, but she finally got a hold of me and told me it wasn't going to work out. That hurt, and I found out later, more or less, why she ghosted me wasn't because of her deceased brother, but rather her ex-fiance who had passed away just before or last date. She never got over him, even after he had got married to someone else. I even remember she had gone down to the town where she met the guy to meet up with a friend of hers, but honestly, I think it was to attend the funeral. Even after all the terrible things he did, like steal, lie, and abuse her, she couldn't him let go. So Angela was a learning experience for a couple of reasons: if it's been a few years and the person has shown no interest until now, there's something they want. Also, for every put down they make about an ex and they follow it up with the same number of compliments, that person is not over them. Finally, if they ghost on you and you've done nothing to provoke it, best to move on.

Fast forward to the Summer of 2021, I met the second and third women when I started taking ballroom lessons. The 2nd woman we'll call Jody and the 3rd Hope (which we'll get into later). Jody is an older woman, but young for her age. I'd say she's more attractive than Angela, even though Angela was just a year younger than me. The catch with Jody was she became a mom when she was 17 years old and is now a grandmother, only in her mid 40s, too. She was married for 20 years and got divorced about a year or so prior to us meeting. There's a back story as well around the time we met, but it's long, so we'll keep it short. Jody had, seemingly, started taking interest in me. She loved talking with me, dancing with me, and enjoyed opening up her life story to me. I didn't go after her right away, but overtime, I started to like her, and she wasn't that much older than I was. A couple of times when she wanted to do something, a family matter comes up. We were still friends and we talked and did things in groups, but it got frustrating. Eventually, we finally went out a year later (and I'll get into that later with the third woman), and we had a great time. After that, though, and all signals she sent, it wasn't enough in the end because there were other guys after her, even a friend of mine. Eventually, I gave up on pursuing Jody, and she ended up getting engaged months later to another man, only to have the engagement called off over a year later (long story). To this day, I'm still friends with Jody, but I came out learning things: if a friend is showing interest in someone you like, don't try to compete and disqualify that person because it's not worth sacrificing a friendship over one individual. If she flakes on going out with you, stop trying to get that person. Finally, if other people are after her, it's best to stop pursuit of her because you don't know who she might have been with.

Now, the last woman, Hope. She's the prettiest of the bunch. Slender, beautiful eyes, healthy, and athletic. Cool person, too, as she was kind, funny, and had more common sense than the other women. I found interest in her in 2022. For a brief moment during that Summer, she was seeing someone, but it was brief and not serious. Still, I ended up going out with Jody that Summer, and then when I found out from Hope's sister and brother in-law (who are also friends of mine), that she was not with anyone. Fast forward a month or so later, we began a series of going and hanging out with her and her sister and brother in-law, with her parents and other family members, and on occasion just us two. She even told me she 'loved me' and kissed me on the cheek at one point. I was beginning to believe in the possibility that MAYBE she might be the one. However, in early 2024, things started happening within Hope's family and disrupted our outings. She started to become a little more distant and disconnected because of the things that were taking place. Eventually, it ended and I had things were back to normal, until late Spring 2024, when I had asked her out again, and she told that she was not interested and rather just be friends. Longest and most quiet drive home I had in a long time, accompanied by a broken heart. Later, I heard she got a boyfriend, but, in the past, these boyfriends were not really boyfriends. But, November of last year, when we got together for a show, and out from this car comes a guy and, immediately, they started holding hands and kissing each other. Another jab at the heart. So the rest of the year was difficult, and despite a failed attempt from a friend trying to hook me up with someone who was the total opposite of who I had my sights on, I made a decision to remain single (unless someone came along). Like Jody, Hope and I are still friends only because of her sister and brother in-law. My final lessons: unless if the woman just goes out with you more often as a couple instead of just groups of people, even if its with her family, don't pursue. Just because she says she loves you, doesn't mean it's in a romantic sense, so unless if she actually kisses you on the lips more than once and holds your hand, she probably has no interest in becoming your girlfriend. If someone you really cared about turned you down, don't try to find someone else, regardless if a friend was simply trying to help, because you need time to heal. Finally, reflect on all the failed experiences you had, see if you did do anything majorly wrong, if you had, fix yourself, but if you hadn't, even with all your self-improvements, begin to make a decision if it's even worth trying again with anyone.

I'm not trying to be a downer at all. It's rude when someone flakes on a date you set up with them and it's on them when they do that. So it's not you as a person. However, the reality of it is many of these people don't want to reveal their true intentions moving forward. As I mentioned earlier, I tried with other women before my weight loss but with no results whatsoever, and after my weight loss I had more success to, at least, have women go out with me. It's just they never say, whether or not, they want anything further than just to go out and be friendly. Instead, they give you the illusion that something may happen, but in truth, they don't want anything real romantically. Nowadays, if they're not interested and they still 'yes' to when you ask them out, they don't care enough to not only no show but also not say anything. An alibi, family emergency, work related, nothing, without even apologizing and rescheduling. If you do reschedule, it's not even a guarantee they'll show on the new time and day, and on many occasions, they don't. They won't even respond if you're checking if everything's okay on their end. If you're social media, you'll see them posting stuff, having a good time talking with friends, everything's fine, and they're even talking to another dude(s). But yet they couldn't give you the courtesy of communicating with you, her date. I've had at times that women I asked out and said they would go out on said time and day that they end up going out with another person(s) without even telling you they are. And they don't even feel bad about leaving you hanging. They come up with an excuse, like they're sick or tired, but even if they did stay in for the night, I found there were times they invite either friends or another guy over to her place. It's not that they don't want to be with someone, it's just they don't want to be with you.

To wrap up this essay of a post, this girl in your story sounds like she's just giving you the run around. All excuses and nothing to show for it. She likes the attention and validation from you, but unless you're some highly attractive man, she doesn't want anything real from you on a romantic level. Best thing to do is move on from her. She's just going to drive you nuts by making you question if you're even good enough for any woman. I wouldn't even try to find another woman because, as you implied, dating just isn't as enjoyable as it once was. Instead, take time to focus on you. Over the past 6 years, not only have I lost fatty weight, I gained a bunch of muscle this past year (thanks to the gym I've been working out at) as well as regaining flexibility and balance with hot yoga, my income has vastly improved, I've been spending more time with family and friends, I've been doing competitive ballroom/Latin dancing for the past 3.5 years, and, overall, have a much more positive outlook on life. For over a year, I haven't even bothered trying to get in a relationship with women because for too long, I've been let down, and the simple truth is many of the women I may find attraction to don't find me desirable. I believe I would treat them right to the best of my ability, and for all 3 women people said I had done nothing wrong (even the family members of the first woman said it was Angela's fault), but to these ladies, I'm not good enough, despite the improvements. I'll gladly let them have at the Chads, since they think they're so deserving of them, only to see them not getting the relationships they wanted. I've got my own issues I'm trying to resolve and goals that need met. In other words, I have better things to do than to get flaked on again and again by those that have no interest. You should too. This woman in your story sounds like a manipulator, and, honestly, if she liked you, she would have not only gone out with you but also at a sooner time and day. She just didn't care, imo, and it's time to leave her behind, regardless if she pleads. That wasn't fair to you nor was it even right of her to do that, despite if she said she was "feeling sick." She should have said something and rescheduled right away well before the time of the date. At the very least talk, NOT TEXT, over the phone for awhile. Needless to say, I've been down this road, and this is all too familiar, so you would be best to move on. Sorry for the long post, but I hope that any of this helps.

[FredEire]

8 hours ago, Els said:

Right, tell them no, block them, and preferably don't give your work address (or home address) to a person you barely know. If he does still show up at her work after that, I'd file a police report - they wouldn't do anything about it yet, but it would start a record that could be used for a restraining order eventually if needed.

Unfortunately it can be a rough world for a woman, but I don't think that ghosting people helps. E.g. with the dude you mentioned, I doubt a cat emoji would lead to a better outcome than saying no.

Right, said girl was a fantastic communicator as well, really straightforward and thoughtful and would say anything she felt she had to say in a very fair, not dramatic way. So the bad experience obviously didn't put her off speaking her mind too much.

Unfortunately we weren't compatible in the sense we were both in our 30s, she was dead set against kids and I want a family. But I wish I had met more girls like her to be honest, she was a breath of fresh air and definitely not the norm for me

[FredEire]

6 hours ago, Herkamer63 said:

You sound like me from over a year ago and years past. When you think you met a girl who was really into you and doesn't fully commit to what she agreed to the plans made. From what it sounds like she reeled you in with the old "hey stranger" greeting, because you 2 met a few years ago, too. I don't like that, and for good reason, they're looking for something that's not a relationship. Typically, it's attention and validation from guys that these type of women have no romantic interest in. Yeah, you're good enough as a friend, but anything beyond that, no. However, you don't know if she actually does like you romantically and bothers you for a good portion of the day. Then when she lays it out to you that she's not interested, you're left heart broken and feeling foolish. I've had this happen to me on 3 occasions with 3 women.

For some context about me, I use to be very overweight. Always wanted to be with a woman, but whenever I tried, I failed. I also wanted to be fit. In 2019, I lost a whole bunch of fatty weight, changing my entire wardrobe and my mentality. Just this past year I finally packed on quite a bit of muscle, but I'll wait on that.

Anyway, a year later, the pandemic hit but that's when I ran into the first woman. We'll call her Angela. I knew her from school years ago and our families know each other. Thought it was a good fit. Found out from her she was dealing with the lost of her brother who took his own life and she tried to stop him, so she blamed herself. Also found out Angela used to be engaged a few years prior to a guy who really wasn't a good person to her nor hardly anyone around them (keep this in mind). We went out a few times, had fun, spent hours on end talking, and felt like we were becoming very close. After our last date, and when I was about to go on vacation, I found her deceased brother's birthday was happening, and she went silent, even during my vacation. I got a hold of Angela's sister and brother in-law (who are friends of mine), let them know what was going on because I was concerned that she wasn't doing anything drastic. They acknowledged and understood so they checked on her, and said she was fine, with her even complimenting me. After my vacation, I was going to head to Angela's place to drop off some gifts, but she finally got a hold of me and told me it wasn't going to work out. That hurt, and I found out later, more or less, why she ghosted me wasn't because of her deceased brother, but rather her ex-fiance who had passed away just before or last date. She never got over him, even after he had got married to someone else. I even remember she had gone down to the town where she met the guy to meet up with a friend of hers, but honestly, I think it was to attend the funeral. Even after all the terrible things he did, like steal, lie, and abuse her, she couldn't him let go. So Angela was a learning experience for a couple of reasons: if it's been a few years and the person has shown no interest until now, there's something they want. Also, for every put down they make about an ex and they follow it up with the same number of compliments, that person is not over them. Finally, if they ghost on you and you've done nothing to provoke it, best to move on.

Fast forward to the Summer of 2021, I met the second and third women when I started taking ballroom lessons. The 2nd woman we'll call Jody and the 3rd Hope (which we'll get into later). Jody is an older woman, but young for her age. I'd say she's more attractive than Angela, even though Angela was just a year younger than me. The catch with Jody was she became a mom when she was 17 years old and is now a grandmother, only in her mid 40s, too. She was married for 20 years and got divorced about a year or so prior to us meeting. There's a back story as well around the time we met, but it's long, so we'll keep it short. Jody had, seemingly, started taking interest in me. She loved talking with me, dancing with me, and enjoyed opening up her life story to me. I didn't go after her right away, but overtime, I started to like her, and she wasn't that much older than I was. A couple of times when she wanted to do something, a family matter comes up. We were still friends and we talked and did things in groups, but it got frustrating. Eventually, we finally went out a year later (and I'll get into that later with the third woman), and we had a great time. After that, though, and all signals she sent, it wasn't enough in the end because there were other guys after her, even a friend of mine. Eventually, I gave up on pursuing Jody, and she ended up getting engaged months later to another man, only to have the engagement called off over a year later (long story). To this day, I'm still friends with Jody, but I came out learning things: if a friend is showing interest in someone you like, don't try to compete and disqualify that person because it's not worth sacrificing a friendship over one individual. If she flakes on going out with you, stop trying to get that person. Finally, if other people are after her, it's best to stop pursuit of her because you don't know who she might have been with.

Now, the last woman, Hope. She's the prettiest of the bunch. Slender, beautiful eyes, healthy, and athletic. Cool person, too, as she was kind, funny, and had more common sense than the other women. I found interest in her in 2022. For a brief moment during that Summer, she was seeing someone, but it was brief and not serious. Still, I ended up going out with Jody that Summer, and then when I found out from Hope's sister and brother in-law (who are also friends of mine), that she was not with anyone. Fast forward a month or so later, we began a series of going and hanging out with her and her sister and brother in-law, with her parents and other family members, and on occasion just us two. She even told me she 'loved me' and kissed me on the cheek at one point. I was beginning to believe in the possibility that MAYBE she might be the one. However, in early 2024, things started happening within Hope's family and disrupted our outings. She started to become a little more distant and disconnected because of the things that were taking place. Eventually, it ended and I had things were back to normal, until late Spring 2024, when I had asked her out again, and she told that she was not interested and rather just be friends. Longest and most quiet drive home I had in a long time, accompanied by a broken heart. Later, I heard she got a boyfriend, but, in the past, these boyfriends were not really boyfriends. But, November of last year, when we got together for a show, and out from this car comes a guy and, immediately, they started holding hands and kissing each other. Another jab at the heart. So the rest of the year was difficult, and despite a failed attempt from a friend trying to hook me up with someone who was the total opposite of who I had my sights on, I made a decision to remain single (unless someone came along). Like Jody, Hope and I are still friends only because of her sister and brother in-law. My final lessons: unless if the woman just goes out with you more often as a couple instead of just groups of people, even if its with her family, don't pursue. Just because she says she loves you, doesn't mean it's in a romantic sense, so unless if she actually kisses you on the lips more than once and holds your hand, she probably has no interest in becoming your girlfriend. If someone you really cared about turned you down, don't try to find someone else, regardless if a friend was simply trying to help, because you need time to heal. Finally, reflect on all the failed experiences you had, see if you did do anything majorly wrong, if you had, fix yourself, but if you hadn't, even with all your self-improvements, begin to make a decision if it's even worth trying again with anyone.

I'm not trying to be a downer at all. It's rude when someone flakes on a date you set up with them and it's on them when they do that. So it's not you as a person. However, the reality of it is many of these people don't want to reveal their true intentions moving forward. As I mentioned earlier, I tried with other women before my weight loss but with no results whatsoever, and after my weight loss I had more success to, at least, have women go out with me. It's just they never say, whether or not, they want anything further than just to go out and be friendly. Instead, they give you the illusion that something may happen, but in truth, they don't want anything real romantically. Nowadays, if they're not interested and they still 'yes' to when you ask them out, they don't care enough to not only no show but also not say anything. An alibi, family emergency, work related, nothing, without even apologizing and rescheduling. If you do reschedule, it's not even a guarantee they'll show on the new time and day, and on many occasions, they don't. They won't even respond if you're checking if everything's okay on their end. If you're social media, you'll see them posting stuff, having a good time talking with friends, everything's fine, and they're even talking to another dude(s). But yet they couldn't give you the courtesy of communicating with you, her date. I've had at times that women I asked out and said they would go out on said time and day that they end up going out with another person(s) without even telling you they are. And they don't even feel bad about leaving you hanging. They come up with an excuse, like they're sick or tired, but even if they did stay in for the night, I found there were times they invite either friends or another guy over to her place. It's not that they don't want to be with someone, it's just they don't want to be with you.

To wrap up this essay of a post, this girl in your story sounds like she's just giving you the run around. All excuses and nothing to show for it. She likes the attention and validation from you, but unless you're some highly attractive man, she doesn't want anything real from you on a romantic level. Best thing to do is move on from her. She's just going to drive you nuts by making you question if you're even good enough for any woman. I wouldn't even try to find another woman because, as you implied, dating just isn't as enjoyable as it once was. Instead, take time to focus on you. Over the past 6 years, not only have I lost fatty weight, I gained a bunch of muscle this past year (thanks to the gym I've been working out at) as well as regaining flexibility and balance with hot yoga, my income has vastly improved, I've been spending more time with family and friends, I've been doing competitive ballroom/Latin dancing for the past 3.5 years, and, overall, have a much more positive outlook on life. For over a year, I haven't even bothered trying to get in a relationship with women because for too long, I've been let down, and the simple truth is many of the women I may find attraction to don't find me desirable. I believe I would treat them right to the best of my ability, and for all 3 women people said I had done nothing wrong (even the family members of the first woman said it was Angela's fault), but to these ladies, I'm not good enough, despite the improvements. I'll gladly let them have at the Chads, since they think they're so deserving of them, only to see them not getting the relationships they wanted. I've got my own issues I'm trying to resolve and goals that need met. In other words, I have better things to do than to get flaked on again and again by those that have no interest. You should too. This woman in your story sounds like a manipulator, and, honestly, if she liked you, she would have not only gone out with you but also at a sooner time and day. She just didn't care, imo, and it's time to leave her behind, regardless if she pleads. That wasn't fair to you nor was it even right of her to do that, despite if she said she was "feeling sick." She should have said something and rescheduled right away well before the time of the date. At the very least talk, NOT TEXT, over the phone for awhile. Needless to say, I've been down this road, and this is all too familiar, so you would be best to move on. Sorry for the long post, but I hope that any of this helps.

Wow that is indeed an epic post! Well done on getting your fitness up and moving forward positively in your life, that's great.

Reading through that the seems I see there is it's best to try and regulate your feeling if you're going in too deep with some girl who gives you the slightest scrap of attention. Also if someone spends most of their time complaining about how troubled they are and how lousy their life is, you're more there for emotional support than anything else. It seems like you've realised but its better to disengage and dont give it to her unless you genuinely just feel its a friendship and really want to help her.