My_Other_I Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Good luck, Fun2BMe. I hope all goes well for you in the future. MOI
luvtoto Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 True or False? Denial is the first stage of healing.
Author Fun2BMe Posted January 23, 2006 Author Posted January 23, 2006 True or False? Denial is the first stage of healing. If it's not too difficult, can you please be more specific? I think I have said I have problems more than any other person on this site. Even though my problems are 1) shy/insecure to be on the phone 2) need reassurance of being accepted 3) I think I'm accomplished and have a lot going for me which everyone is jumping on this wagon to call narcisistic, which I find odd 4) I have said many many times I am acknowledging I have problems, have STARTED to make steps to change but admit it is difficult - do you think it will be honest if 1 week later I post saying I'm this brand new person? 5) I am a very strong person to be putting up with all these bitter feedback I am getting, maybe you're jealous? I really don't know where some of the comments are coming from. So, I go back to what I originally asked...what EXACTLY are you so mysteriously implying that I am denying, ms. perfect. I am far from perfect and don't talk down to those who I think have bigger problems than I do. 1
whichwayisup Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 You are strong and honestly it shows alot of character that you've stuck around and taken some s***. You've stood up and shown that you CAN and are willing to do some changes in your life! That's all good stuff. It won't be easy and it is alot of hard work. I do think that people need to stop throwing it in your face, stop with the attitude and negative comments, try to be abit more helpful. Harsh advice is fine but as long as it is respectful and not rude. Baby steps...One day at a time. I'm suggesting you start a daily journal, for thoughts, feelings, thought patterns that you notice about yourself, mood changes...And make note of where you are in your cycle too. It's important because us gals know how hormones DO affect us and make us react with emotion rather than the brain. Congrats on the first steps...
Author Fun2BMe Posted January 23, 2006 Author Posted January 23, 2006 Thank you so much whichway. I think you and Walk really get me. I have always thought about starting a journal, maybe needed that nudge which you just gave me, as a useful tool to write down all of my feelings and keep track of my cycles. I tend to be very emotional and that might anchor me in, to let it all out on paper instead of expoding inside, then opening my mouth and expecting others to show understanding as to where I'm coming from. Thanks for all of your support. It's frustrating when people get nasty like they want to see me fail and fall flat down on my face so they can say "I told you so" or whatever their deal is. I don't think I would've come across so desperate with the other guy who I was interested in, if I might have kept a journal to explore my thoughts, instead of getting upset about everything. I hadn't fallen that hard for someone that the more I tried and wanted back from him, it all backfired and ruined all my chances. I was so smitten that my brain had frozen or something and all of my actions were directed by my heart, but nobody was able to relate to it and threw snowballs at me during my most vulnerable time. I will go off to make some changes, looking forward to starting a journal....It might help with my decision making process and provide a non-threatening environment as an outlet to explore all of my feelings. That's exactly what I need! Thanks again WWisUp. 1
whichwayisup Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Thank you so much whichway. I think you and Walk really get me. I have always thought about starting a journal, maybe needed that nudge which you just gave me, as a useful tool to write down all of my feelings and keep track of my cycles. You're welcome. Go buy that journal tomorrow. Do both, by hand and on the computer! Everybody in life is messed up in one way or another. Noone is perfect and the older we get, we see our flaws more. I don't know...I guess being in the 30's really opens your eyes and ya realize that life is short. The older I get the more I really SEE what is around me...And what I could lose, miss out on. SO do not be afraid to call around, look in the phone books and check out therapists. I see one and she's helped me. Over a year ago noone would know that about me cuz I was embarressed to tell and talk about it. Was too caught up about worrying what people would think of me, say about me. Know what I realized? My family and friends will love and support me. They will help me and be proud that I took control and DID something to change, inside of hiding from it and ignoring it...(I suffer from an anxiety disorder, though I am doing so much better now. Still work in progress...)
Walk Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Hi Fun. Just wanted to share my experience with starting a journal. (did so about 2 years ago.) I use paper, not computer because it's more comfortable for me... but it's incredibly freeing. I can write every annoyance, every thought, every feeling down exactly as I mean. Even the petty, selfish, ugly stuff that I wouldn't want anyone else to ever know. And then I evaluate the why's of those feelings. For instance: I wrote how I was feeling ignored, unappreciated, I was pissed about it, angry, wanted to shout and scream... And then I had to really look at why those feelings were present, and I found out that it wasn't really about the bf at the time. I felt ignored, unappreciated, etc because of my family, my work, my friends, everyone, and I projected the brunt of those feelings onto my bf... I know I'm too emotional, and if I don't do something where I can walk myself through the "why's" and "hows" then I just get caught in a cycle of feelings that continue to instensify. Until I can't keep a level head anymore and blow. Usually ending disastrously. Just wanted to say I find journaling really helpful. Plus I can look back over months, or years, and say "Look, I improved here." Or, "Wow, I need work on this."
luvtoto Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 I am far from perfect and don't talk down to those who I think have bigger problems than I do. Oh pleeeease!!!! Maybe not 'talk down to', but you sure spend alot of time 'looking down at'. So let me get this straight...it's ok for you to look down your nose and belittle people that are not in the same social/wealth category as you in life...but, it's not ok for me talk down to you for your snobbish tendencies?? Jealous?? I have been jealous about 5 times in my life, and this ain't one of those times. Should I be jealous? Jealous of your money? Of your...what exactly are you so mysteriously implying..can you be more specific? It is often stated that the measure of a person's character or class is how they treat those who either are beneath them in a social situation, like a person in the service industry, or those from which they can derive nothing. People of class, of character, treat everyone equally, not based on fame, wealth, intellect, social standing or the pretence of such. Have a nice day.
JayKay Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 People are very angered by the implications that you are 'above' or 'better' than certain people based on your 'station' in life. Fun, if you are having trouble interpreting this, let me help. There are many smart, capable and creative folks out there who for whatever reason, DO NOT make the money you do. They may have yearned to enter a 'helping' profession (as I did) where they pay just isn't that grand. Or perhaps, due to circumstance, they had to put their higher education goals on hold. I know one woman who took care of her sick father by working in a restaurant at night and doing part-time book-keeping by day. Some people take less socially-acceptable jobs, like waitering, working as garbagemen or maintenance people...because they want to pursue other things in life and don't want to be tied to a desk and a cell phone. My BF's brother works temp jobs so he can play in a band and write fiction. One of my friends in high school was one of six children. Her mother stayed home to raise all her kids. Only after the last one hit age 18 did she pursue her dreams of becoming a lawyer. People make lots of different choices for lots of different reasons. Passing judgement on someone, before you understand the reason for these choices, is short-sighted and narrow minded. As you re-think your views on life, you may want to start interacting more with different types of people. Ask the bartender how he's doing. Strike up a casual conversation with the cleaning lady. Find out how her daughter is doing in school. You may find life a hell of a lot more interesting as you venture beyond the bubble. By the way, I don't know if you'll relate to this story at all......but it was just so telling with regards to the people involved. Years ago I waited tables to put myself through school. I worked with one guy in particular, Pablo, who was wonderful. He'd come from Mexico, learned english within a couple of years, was saving money to purchase a house and had dreams of opening his own business in a couple of years. He was bright, sensitive and had been through incredible hardship. He'd grown up dirt poor in his country and still sent money home to various relatives. Anyway, I watched him wait on some customers one evening; two wealthy ladies who resided in the area and who were blathering on about a trip to Mexico they'd taken together with their husbands. Oh...they went on and on about the beautiful views....the food and history and culture Culture this and culture that. It was so interesting Oh my, and the locals! So quaint! Such interesting customs! Wasn't it interesting! And they interacted with the locals so well. The locals were so impressed with their spanish! A minute later I heard one bark at Pablo, "Can I ORDER? We're just sitting here..WAITING!" I watched him hustle over to take their orders, never flinching as they wagged fingers at him saying, "Now if that soup isn't HOT...I'm sending it back, understand? And tell George (the owner) I'm here. George knows my husband. They're very good friends. Bring us some bread too. Make sure it's hot. Or we'll send it back" For the duration of their meal I watched them order and wag, not once saying 'please' or 'thank you' or even saying his name. It was ironic. They were so pleased with their jaunt to Mexico, so pleased with the locals and all their sophisticated understanding of culture and language... yet here was Mexico standing right before them. And they didn't even bother to get to know him. They didn't know that Pablo had left home at age 14 and worked for a construction crew in Mexico...or that he'd slept in the empty half-built houses at night on beds of newspaper. They didn't know his sister had died of malnutrition when she was 4. At age 19, when most American kids are contemplating where to go on spring break, Pablo came to the US with no english and little money and stood on a street corner in a strange city, asking people for work. He did back-breaking types of work with landscapers and whoever would give him anything to do...usually for about $5.00/hour. Would you have survived that? Eventually Pablo found his way into restaurant work. The pay was better, but not much, and the hours ranged from 60-80/week. He finally got a bus boy job at the place I ended up working for and because his english had gotten so good, he ended up waiting tables instead of bussing them. He eventually became a citizen of the United States. He made himself so indispensable at the restaurant, with his work ethic and gentle mannerisms, the owner gave him keys to the place and let him do opening and closing shifts. Pablo also did inventory and ordering and for all accounts and purposes, really managed the place. Pablo had started taking pre-GED courses when I knew him and was planning on getting not only a HS diploma but an associates degree in accounting or business of some type. I've lost track of Pablo, but I'm sure he went on to do exactly as he planned to do. His very hard life had taught him tenacity, courage, patience and determination. I'm sure whatever business he went on to create will do very very well, because he's already done much harder things. There's your Mexico. How could anyone place that below some trust-fund kid whose sense of entitlement keeps him permanently locked in a pre-adolescent angst-y fog? I think true sophistication means looking beyond your own cleverness and coming to the humble realization that their are human experiences that differ from yours. And some are truly interesting. 1
luvtoto Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Good post JayKay! Vote for Pablo! (sorry came from a movie) JayKay quote: "Passing judgement on someone, before you understand the reason for their choices, is short-sighted and narrow minded." The last few responses from me have been quick and judgemental of you. Sucks to be on the receiving end doesn't it? If you are going to be judgemental of innocent people...don't get upset when others are judgemental of you.
dgiirl Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 I sacrificed a date, I sacrificed hurting another man's and my feelings, all 100% based on feedback I've been getting from people convincing me I'm not good enough to go out with other people First step to fixing yourself is OWNING your decisions. Noone told you to cancel the date. Noone forced you to do anything. So own your decisions 100%. If you are not happy in life, that is YOUR fault, noone else's. If you have fear of interacting with ppl, that is YOUR fault, noone else's. All of these emotions are your own decisions. You cannot prevent bad things from happening to you, but you CAN control how you react to them. And that is YOUR responsiblity. Everyone's bitter with you because your posts are self centered. You dont reverse shoes with other people and think how they would feel. And until you learn that lesson, you will keep repeating the same mistakes. I bet this isnt the first guy you made jump through hoops and then cancelled on him. I bet we're not the first group of people who you have issues with. When the same topics come up over and over again with different people, the common denomiator is you! So this is a problem YOU have to fix, not anyone else's.
Author Fun2BMe Posted January 24, 2006 Author Posted January 24, 2006 (this is a sample of what I would imagine one of my journal entries will be like.I would probably write write write, then go over it and be able to summarize my thoughts in just a few short sentences) Walk, that is EXACTLY what I want to do as far as writing all of my thoughts without holding back, then going through it to critique myself and grow from there, instead of taking things out on others or thinking irrationally at times when I get very emotional. JayKay, that was a nice post. I just feel nobody gets my issue, maybe because I didn't explain it thoroughly? I have written at least twice that the main hesitation I had with dating the postal worker (and this could apply to a waiter (full time only occupation) and other workers in similar jobs, is that if someone is content doing such jobs, maybe they would make me bored intellectually, and I speak of experience. If someone is in their late 30s-40s and does such work and enjoys it, when I go out with them, they are not very highly educated and I say that only because I have interests in history, the news, global issues, a lot of stuff that from my experience, they just don't know/care about. Of course there are exceptions. That's why it is worth getting to know people but in the majority of the cases (like over 90%) it is a given that that is not the case (including with the postal worker from our conversation but I thought maybe I could ignore that big issue, even though in the long run I do think it would bother me.) I do not look down at others. My first job was at McDonald's when I was 15. I then worked at many different restaurants waitressing. I've dealt with people talking down at me and acting superior, demanding I get them their food without appreciation. I've been there, so all of my friends and family know why I always insist on tipping big and never let anyone make any complaints when the service is slow, because I can relate with the situation. There's only so much someone can do and just because you tip a few dollars doesn't mean you can treat another human being like your slave for the duration of the meal. I've also worked for minimum wage at the library of the university I attended. I took out student loans and got scholarships to put me through one of the top universities in the nation that costed an arm and a leg, without a penny from my parents. I have worked hard, accomoplished more than I will mention in my posts, own homes worth a total of just over 2 mil. all on my own, never been "kept" or married or had taken handouts. So JayKay when you write about that story, it is nice to read, but I really don't know how to explain how it doesn't relate to my situation. I respect people of all professions, but when it comes to DATING, I have an intention to spend a lot of time with someone who I will consider to become my boyfriend, and if I am not satisfied intellectually and not stimulated in that area, then it is a waste of time. Some (or should I say many) people place a high importance on sexual satisfaction and intimacy with their partners. For me that is very low on the scale and list of priorities and unfortunately men look at my physical features most of the time before getting to know me, so i have developed trust issues and it takes a lot for me to even go on a date. I'm not into casual dating unless I feel there is something real there that has a potential to develop into something. I know that is not the best thing, I may have missed out on people I didn't know well enough to decide they wouldn't be the one, but that's how I happen to be, and would rather be alone than spend an evening with someone who was not on the same "plane (plain?)"/level with me (again, not financially). My friends include a well known author (on amazon's top list in a particular popular cateogory whose books are sold all over the place), people in my field and other hate to use the phrase but let's say "white collar" profession just to bring things to a full circle from where this thread started. We discuss topics that others may find very esoteric and clueless and from experience I know that when I talk to the lady who cleans my house or delivers my mail, they are not as interested in these things, so what would be the point if they are nice and there is a physical attraction, but not mental stimulation? (I should point out that many in jobs such as a busboy or someone who does nails, cleans house and such, they are usually foreigners and they are some of the brightest people around, the top of the cream from the countries they come from trying to start from scratch in a new country, some have engineering backgrounds or are very educated, but unfortunately there is a huge language barrier). It might be tempting to go out just to have fun, but fun is on the bottom of my list of things that are imiportant to me, and my username is very tongue in cheek...anyways, here is a little explanation that I'm sure tudor and others will roll their eyes on, but this is me, for better or worse.
Milo Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Well then, you seem to have a definite idea of the educational background of the kind of man you would like to date. So where to meet them? I would suggest one of the better bookstores or upscale grocers like Whole Foods. That would also take care of the economic bracket you are intersted in. Not joking, really. I find visiting both of those kinds of places nice in and of themselves, although I tend not to spend much at either. Perhaps an informal class at the university? Paragliding maybe? Dinner and costume parties are even better, I think. But you'll just have to start puting some time in on a social life, which you no doubt neglect.
whichwayisup Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Good post Fun. It's so good to write because one doesn't lie when they do that. You speak from the heart. You feel, it write it. A thought pops in there, out it comes through the hands... The only thing I'd like to make a comment on is this. they are not very highly educated and I say that only because I have interests in history, the news, global issues, a lot of stuff that from my experience, they just don't know/care about. Of course there are exceptions. That's why it is worth getting to know people but in the majority of the cases (like over 90%) it is a given that that is not the case (including with the postal worker from our conversation but I thought maybe I could ignore that big issue, even though in the long run I do think it would bother me.) See, in the sense of talking to someone who has the same interests as you is wonderful...But the guy who isn't as into politics, history and the arts may have SO much to offer, so much to say and that could open your eyes, just as you could open his eyes too with your knowledge. You don't want to miss out on that which is why taking the chance, one or two times just for fun won't be harmful. You may learn about the little things in life that you've never noticed before. It could open another realm of thinking for you too. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that. Keep going with the journaling!
luvtoto Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Fun2, however you try to redue..or re-explain your thread, I get offended everytime when you keep bunching groups of people together and making stereotypical judgements and assumptions about them. I think what men and women look for most in a partner may simply be someone just like themselves. Attractive people tend to value attractiveness, wealthy people value partners with money and ambitious types gravitate to others like themselves. That's not too difficult to figure out; even someone as uninteresting and uneducated as myself. I am assuming that I am in your 90 percentile generalized class of people right along with the postman. I mean, I don't own a 2 mil. home...so I am just assuming here. I think most LSr's would be willing to forgive you and offer friendlier advice if you quit with the broad generalizations! Specific instances are much better.
Spleen Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I just read this thread tonight. I think one of the reasons there's been a good deal of controversy here is the stereotyping. Yeah, the majority of people do it, we're all guilty of it at some point, consciously or subconsciously, but people need to realize it takes an active effort to really see beyond stereotypes and appreciate individuals for who they are. As in, NEVER assume. If you're going to assume, assume the other person is "better" than you, no matter who they are. And no matter how many times we may have stereotyped an individual and it turned out to be true (which I seriously doubt would happen 90% of the time, or even 20% of the time for that matter), we still cannot fall into the trap of continuing to stereotype or EVER make broad generalizations. This is something we can all constantly work on and improve on, regardless of how tolerant, diverse, etc., we are. Always look at a person as an individual, you can never look at their race, job, income, social/economic background and be able to size someone up completely. Yeah, you can pick up things here and there. Just like, at first glance, maybe some would assume Fun2BMe was an elitist, but this is not the case, by her genuine desire to not be that stereotype. Every human is beautiful and unique, and has much to offer. If a person is uneducated, yet happy, we can learn much from them. If a person went to Stanford but is miserable (trust me, there are a lot), we can learn from them too... how not to live. BTW, I have a friend who is a stockbroker who had a very "high up" position downtown San Francisco, made loads of money, and has a huuuuge 6 bedroom luxury home on a 1 acre lot in AZ. He's one of the most humble people I know. He quit his job, and now works as a bank teller where he'll get scolded if he comes back from lunch 5 minutes late, all so he could work less hours in order to do volunteer work. Isn't that what education is for? To become well-rounded in order to contribute more to society, and help make the world a better place? I also know lots of lawyers who make even more money than him. You know what? They're some of the most boring, shallow, non-creative people I know. Not all, but a heck of a lot of them. Everything has to be by the book. Even when they have babies, they're back at the office the next day after their spouse gives birth, working 12 hour days, 6-7 days a week. How is that living, when you're living for work and not for your family, or work so much you have scarcely a social life? To each his own, I suppose, but I see this all the time. Education doesn't mean anything if the individual can't be balanced or break out of their "mold" and learn what living is really about. It's good that Fun is opening her mind and is exploring a relationship with someone she normally would not go out with. If Fun, or anyone else, likes history, news, global issues, that's fine, but there are thousands of other topics out there that people can have expertise in, and they can help us become even more well-rounded and broaden our minds if we genuinely give them a chance and take interest.
loony Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 First, I think the postal worker was a bad choice, because I find his behavior a bit weird. Talking about his divorce the first time he met someone in my opinion hints to issues. The fact that he did call her as much as she prefers her admirers to do indicates further issues. Who with a little bit of self-respect would do this? Second, I do understand it when she says she prefers someone who has a similar educational background as she does. There are simply worlds between a postal worker and someone who had the ambition to go to a top university, regarding your ambition, your values and goals in life, the way you perceive the world. I've worked for a year as a postal worker. Most were fun and nice people, but still I wouldn't have considered dating any of them, most were too old anyway. People usually want someone to whom they can relate to, who had similar experiences as they had and education is a big factor in their reasoning. Education is an important value for me and I'd like to be with someone who shares this with me. It's not everything, but nonetheless an important factor in the decision making process. The guy in JayKay's story was a foreigner who had to start from scratch, but let's assume he grew up here and had the same chances. It would have been very likely that with all his wonderful qualities he would have pursued a college education. The stock broker in Spleen's story, he made a conscious choice to do something else, but first he wanted some worldly success and recognition. He earned enough money and wanted to do something with more meaning in life, so he settled down, but he did not choose right from the beginning to spend his life as a bank teller with a lower salary than a stock broker. All those of you who are professionals with a degree and who criticize her, please tell me if you ever had a long-term partner whose educational background differed vastly from yours. It seems that people always get really upset when someone says that education is an important factor for them when they choose a partner. People get less upset when someone says he prefers skinny athletic women who go to the gym regularly.
JayKay Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 My story about Pablo was not a recommendation she go ahead and date waiters. Rather, it was an attempt to illustrate that broadening your social circle with many TYPES of people included can be a good way to expand your way of thinking. In the long run, this could lead to better relationships down the road. I agree, most of us would prefer to spend time with people who are more 'like' us and who share our interests. Certainly, I find remarkable people who display character and strength a good deal more interesting than bland, 'same-****-different-day' grumblers. My point was simply that some of these remarkable people may find themselves in difficult circumstances. My point was try getting to know a few people in circumstances that are different from your own before judging.
Mz. Pixie Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Fun2, however you try to redue..or re-explain your thread, I get offended everytime when you keep bunching groups of people together and making stereotypical judgements and assumptions about them. Exactly!!!! Just because someone is educated it doesn't make them intelligent. Some people that I know have years and years of education and plenty of degrees and it still doesn't mean they are more intelligent. Most of them don't have enough sense to pour piss out of a boot! Coming on here and bragging about how one of your best friends is a best selling author- well, blah, blah, blah I have a celebrity in my family whose ego isn't as big as yours. Do you see me on here saying ohhhhhh I'm related to so and so (and if I told you- you'd know who it is without having to google it) so that means my conversations are so much more interesting and well rounded?? I can certainly see dating people that you have more in common with and I'm not taking issue with that. What I dislike is your mass generalizations about people who appear to be less educated or less white collar than you are.
luvtoto Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 All those of you who are professionals with a degree and who criticize her, please tell me if you ever had a long-term partner whose educational background differed vastly from yours. It seems that people always get really upset when someone says that education is an important factor for them when they choose a partner. People get less upset when someone says he prefers skinny athletic women who go to the gym regularly. Well, I dated a guy for a a few years. He had was on the verge of getting his Associates Degree in Computer Technology/Networking/Administration. He was currently working as a tech when I met him. At first, he intimidated me because (I know this sound silly) he dressed in a suit & tie everyday. I never dated a professional career man before. He was very intelligent and ambitious. When I met him I was a telemarketer, and I remember him going to my place of employment with a dozen roses one time. I felt so important, because this fancy business man was interested in me. Boosted my confidence. I never really had any interest in going to college at the time. Didn't even cross my mind. I didn't think I was smart enough. He motivated me to strive for more in my life. He didn't judge me at all! Didn't make a bit of difference to him where I was in my life. We dated for 3 years and in that time, I went to a community college for two years. I earned my Associates Degree in Computer Programming. I was hired right out of the gate and my starting pay was more money than I ever dreamed of. I was driving a brand new car. Never worried about money. Well, I got laid off after being an employee for 3 years. Just out of the blue one day...me, along with a few others members on my team. I was scared to death, because I was the sole provider of two kids. I downsized my career for my kid's welfare. I needed a stable job, and I didn't like having my kids living in the big city, or being on call 24/7. It was too difficult, and I couldn't keep up!! Too much stress with all the overtime! So, now I am an Office Manager of a small town newspaper. Sure, I miss the status career, and I get judged at times by people I do business with. But, I know what I AM capable of doing in life, and I won't let judgemental people define who I am. They don't know me. Thank God, he never judged me in the beginning. He helped me define who I am.
Walk Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I have written at least twice that the main hesitation I had with dating the postal worker (and this could apply to a waiter (full time only occupation) and other workers in similar jobs, is that if someone is content doing such jobs, maybe they would make me bored intellectually, and I speak of experience. If someone is in their late 30s-40s and does such work and enjoys it, when I go out with them, they are not very highly educated and I say that only because I have interests in history, the news, global issues, a lot of stuff that from my experience, they just don't know/care about. Of course there are exceptions. That's why it is worth getting to know people but in the majority of the cases (like over 90%) it is a given that that is not the case (including with the postal worker from our conversation but I thought maybe I could ignore that big issue, even though in the long run I do think it would bother me.) From what I understand of human nature and Maslow's hirearchy of needs, someone in a position of barely making ends meet is not going to have the time to delve into other issues. Here's what they say our needs are from lowest to highest. 1. Biological and Physiological needs - air, food, drink, shelter, warmth, sex, sleep, etc. 2. Safety needs - protection from elements, security, order, law, limits, stability, etc. 3. Belongingness and Love needs - work group, family, affection, relationships, etc. 4. Esteem needs - self-esteem, achievement, mastery, independence, status, dominance, prestige, managerial responsibility, etc. 5. Self-Actualization needs - realising personal potential, self-fulfillment, seeking personal growth and peak experiences. If your partner is struggling to meet 1-3 and you are on 4 and 5, then you aren't going to be able to relate very well. It'll cause resentment, animosity, and hostility in both people. If someone is 30-40 years old and driving a taxi for a living, loving that kind of work but only makes $18-$20 grand a year, they're just barely (if at all) meeting their basic needs. If they're stuck in that area, then usually there's deep seated issues with self-esteem, negative thinking, and a defeatism attitude (at least in people I've known in my life). I'm not saying all, but the majority I have met, and there have been a lot, I tend to find them unmotivated to explore their potential either due to fear, depression, or negative thinking. They won't change. And their desires do not match mine, so I would choose not to date them. Now, if I met a taxi driver who was using his job as means to go to college, then it'd be different. Or if his job was this, but he was working toward a goal or a dream. Depending on the motivation behind it. I don't think she's discounting all people who aren't in her social bracket, just that her experience has taught her that the majority of lower income people are unable or unwilling to share the same mental stimulations as Fun wants. (Am I anywhere close on this Fun? Or totally off base?)
Mz. Pixie Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 All those of you who are professionals with a degree and who criticize her, please tell me if you ever had a long-term partner whose educational background differed vastly from yours. It seems that people always get really upset when someone says that education is an important factor for them when they choose a partner. People get less upset when someone says he prefers skinny athletic women who go to the gym regularly. Yes, I have. Secondly, I'm not getting upset with her for saying that she has more in common with someone else- it's that combined with the rest of her adjectives she uses to inflate herself as more wealthy, smarter, more successful, more beautiful.
luvtoto Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 My father was a self-employed mason. He had a man working for him for over 10 years as a hired hand. This guy wasn't too young...he had a wife...child. One day, out of the blue, this guy decided to quit being a laborer, and go to college to become a brain surgeon. Seriously! True story! You all know the old saying, 'Don't judge a book by it's cover'. By the way, he made his dreams come true, but, he had to work harder than the next guy.
Spleen Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Rather, it was an attempt to illustrate that broadening your social circle with many TYPES of people included can be a good way to expand your way of thinking. Yeah, that's exactly my point. If we always surrounded ourselves with people of the same interests and had the same types of conversations every time we went to dinner with these friends, we'd only be feeding our own egos and not really expanding as much as we could be by mixing it up a bit. Sure, it's wonderful to have friends and date people with similar interests, nothing wrong with that. But it is wrong to automatically assume that a person of a certain working class or educational background is a certain way, or is not going to have anything in common with you. She almost lost out on the opportunity to even get to know the postal worker because of her initial assumption that he was uneducated and wouldn't be able to hold a conversation with her. Well, she was proved wrong, and that's part of learning about people and the world, and to never make assumptions. I've dated and gotten to know people of various backgrounds, races, educational levels, one of them in particular holding a director's position in a large firm, and I can say that I dumped that one faster than anyone I've ever been with. He always talked about money, buying bigger houses, fancy cars, etc., and he didn't care that I wasn't a director or whatever. Even though he had a very sweet, genuine personality, wanted to spoil me, take me out, buy me things and take care of me, I found the emphasis on money and possessions a big turn-off. He still tries to call and get me to go out with him as "friends," but I know he's not for me, even as a friend. It works both ways... we still shouldn't view all people who are educated or rich as being snobs or elitists any more than we should view all uneducated people as unmotivated or dumb. Everyone's different. The most amazing guy I ever knew had *no* job, minimal college education, but was absolutely brilliant, artistic, incredibly loving and caring, and extremely motivated, just in a different way. He just didn't believe in the educational system, and that's different. Not everyone has to go through the system and conform to be "normal." I don't care how much or how little someone makes, we can't discredit the person as being not worth getting to know at least--it's best to get to know the individual first before jumping to the conclusion that they are worlds apart from us.
luvtoto Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I don't care how much or how little someone makes, we can't discredit the person as being not worth getting to know at least--it's best to get to know the individual first before jumping to the conclusion that they are worlds apart from us. I second that! Good post Spleen!
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