blind_otter Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I will not be a clone of someone else unless I approve of their way. That's awfully expansive of you...you shouldn't be a clone of someone else, period..... Hey, you do your thing, I'll do mine. But hey, why not, as an experiment, I'll read what you wrote at my AA meeting tonight and see what they say.
basscatcher Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 That's awfully expansive of you...you shouldn't be a clone of someone else, period..... Hey, you do your thing, I'll do mine. But hey, why not, as an experiment, I'll read what you wrote at my AA meeting tonight and see what they say. Go for it. I'm curious... I have had many years of counceling and reading for my own help in understanding myself, love, relationships etc. I find that this works for me.. Its apart of who I am and my belief system.
Outcast Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Well I have stated this before........ you love a person because you get something from them. You have friends because you get something out of the friendship. I so disagree. But if I read what you wrote in AA tonight, pada, I would get shouted down into my seat for being codependent and enabling. The difference, Otter, is that you don't carry those traits to the point of self-abnegation and without receiving the same in return. Which also needs to be judged in balance. People tend to swing to one end of a pendulum or another - demanding they don't give unless they get the exact equal in return or else giving everything and receiving nothing. It's about learning to balance - yes, sometimes one partner does more giving and sometimes the other does but overall it should all balance. Nobody should be in charge of making all the sacrifices for the benefit of the other. THAT's when you become codependent, etc.
jen_jen_heartbroken Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 thank you all, becoming youre right. its hard for me to tell what i feel because im worn out emotionally, and i dont know if i should keep waiting to figure it out or let go with some uncertainty. i care, but i dont know how i feel because im so worn out. the word need is used a lot by her. i cant just drop someone Is she still bringing up marriage? She may be in a needy place, but is she giving you what you need, or is it all one-sided?
basscatcher Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I have a Xbf who is a alcoholic. Here is a bit of a description of who he use to be and how he is now. He is of hispanic decent. He had a huge ego on his shoulder and started smoking weed at a young age. He began to distribute it and it eventually lead him to be one of the biggest distributors in the northern plains area. He had a reputation not to F* with him and people genuinely feared him. He involved his 5 yr old son when in the middle of a transaction. He was teaching his son the trade and placed a gun in his hands at a young age and told him if the man tried to hurt his daddy to pull the trigger. He became an alcoholic as well and was arrogant, an a**h***, rude to his family (kids too), he would physically harm anyone who betrayed him, disagreed with him or went against him in any way. He was a royal azzhole.. He had a friend narc him out and he was arrested and it was made national news years ago. He made a deal with the DA and his sentence was drastically reduced and he got out in 7 months on good behavior.. While he was in lock up, his wife divorced him, his kids didin't want to see him, he sobered up and cleaned up his drug addiction, he found Jesus Christ again and began to change his life. He has had many set backs mostly caused by his pride and arrogance. He has learned to humble himself drastically and he is in his working on the 6th and 7th steps. I left him because he fell off the wagon and began to become physcially abusive and more severly mentally abusive to me. We were in a dating/living relationship for 17 months. I knew his was an alcoholic but the time we got together he was on the wagon and in AA. He fell off during our relationship and I couldn't bear it anymore. I left and he went back into AA. He and I didn't speak for over 1/2 a year and now we are phone friends. He is doing very well and when he needs a friend, someone to be blunt and straight forward honest with him he calls me... He said I was almost always right, he said I always tried to guide him, love him and support him. he said I always spoke the truth to him and he respects me, he said when I speak I speak out of truth using logic, reason, compassion, empathy, understanding and mostly love. He and I will never get back together but we have a friendship now that is true. We chose not to see each other because we have a romantic past and it is best to be logical friends not contact friends. We both chose to move forward in our personal lives with other people. We do not talk everyday or every week only on occasions when he needs support and to vent and get feedback. He has been there for me as well when I have been struggling with relationshps and understanding men. I think what I said in this forum he would agree with. Because he has learned to be honest
basscatcher Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 The difference, Otter, is that you don't carry those traits to the point of self-abnegation and without receiving the same in return. Which also needs to be judged in balance. People tend to swing to one end of a pendulum or another - demanding they don't give unless they get the exact equal in return or else giving everything and receiving nothing. It's about learning to balance - yes, sometimes one partner does more giving and sometimes the other does but overall it should all balance. Nobody should be in charge of making all the sacrifices for the benefit of the other. THAT's when you become codependent, etc. EXCELLENT POST...
Author itwontdawnsooner Posted January 17, 2006 Author Posted January 17, 2006 she is in a needy place, but it seems shes in that place a lot of the time. i dont know how i feel. no matter how hard i try. the worn out thing is im worn out battling how i feel, what i should do. to support in a time of a lot of need, but to be self-preserving. im conflicted, no clear answer is coming to me. its tearing me up not knowing.
blind_otter Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 The difference, Otter, is that you don't carry those traits to the point of self-abnegation and without receiving the same in return. Which also needs to be judged in balance. People tend to swing to one end of a pendulum or another - demanding they don't give unless they get the exact equal in return or else giving everything and receiving nothing. It's about learning to balance - yes, sometimes one partner does more giving and sometimes the other does but overall it should all balance. Nobody should be in charge of making all the sacrifices for the benefit of the other. THAT's when you become codependent, etc. No...the difference is that I understand that if I try to live off of scraps, I'll starve to death, now. I'm codependent as a mutha****a, right now. Which is why I'm stunningly single. And probably why I got a new job, all things considered. I love staying home to take care of the various dirtbags I date, I love to spend all day cooking for someone else, doing someone else's laundry, cleaning someone else's mess up....it sounds like I'm being sarcastic but I'm not. It's ironic. I'm a ball buster on my own and a complacent ball licker when I'm with someone. And anyways, I know it's a classic codependent trait. To never consciously acknowledge that you live off of scraps of affection from someone else. And I have yet to understand this "honesty" insinuation. Please define this for me. Because AFAIK, depressives tend to be, statistically speaking, more honest with themselves than people who are not depressive. I'm just sayin. Carl Rogers spoke of being both honest and accepting with yourself, and that the trick isnt the first part, it's the second...
basscatcher Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 she is in a needy place, but it seems shes in that place a lot of the time. i dont know how i feel. no matter how hard i try. the worn out thing is im worn out battling how i feel, what i should do. to support in a time of a lot of need, but to be self-preserving. im conflicted, no clear answer is coming to me. its tearing me up not knowing. I felt like you do at one time. I was seeing a therapist at the time and he told me this: "when you give to much of yourself and don't save any for yourself you will become no good for others." "when you overgive you will feel like you are suffocating." Step back and ask some of her friends or if a family member can reach out to her because you need time to rebuild yourself.. Don't take her issues to your own heart. She is making her own bed by living in denial, not accepting truth, being stubborn, not seeking help or taking help when it is given her. If she want's to play victim and not heal then maybe it is wise for you to cut your strings and move forward. You will if you havent already will become Co-Dependant.. Look that up on the internet and read what it is and what it entails. It is easy to fall into that position without realizing it until its too late.
Author itwontdawnsooner Posted January 17, 2006 Author Posted January 17, 2006 I felt like you do at one time. I was seeing a therapist at the time and he told me this: "when you give to much of yourself and don't save any for yourself you will become no good for others." "when you overgive you will feel like you are suffocating." Step back and ask some of her friends or if a family member can reach out to her because you need time to rebuild yourself.. Don't take her issues to your own heart. She is making her own bed by living in denial, not accepting truth, being stubborn, not seeking help or taking help when it is given her. If she want's to play victim and not heal then maybe it is wise for you to cut your strings and move forward. You will if you havent already will become Co-Dependant.. Look that up on the internet and read what it is and what it entails. It is easy to fall into that position without realizing it until its too late. right, and thats the feeling i get. she has made an effort to improve, and continues too, but im worried you dont ever change fully, worried i'm past the point of no return (emotionally). i am remembering there is good, there is. im just worried bc when i look inside for what i really feel, there is nothing. no answer. it changes every time i look. you can't change someone. you can't pick and choose which part of someone you're with. im trying here, but how can how i feel still be unclear? thank u so much for everyone who responds, it means so much.
Author itwontdawnsooner Posted January 17, 2006 Author Posted January 17, 2006 im such a loser. im crying like an ass because i want something i think i shouldnt want.
jen_jen_heartbroken Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 im such a loser. im crying like an ass because i want something i think i shouldnt want. Are you talking about wanting/not wanting her? You're not a loser. There's nothing wrong with a good cry once in awhile. Yes, even for men.
Becoming Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 What is it that you really want that you think you shouldn't?
Author itwontdawnsooner Posted January 18, 2006 Author Posted January 18, 2006 What is it that you really want that you think you shouldn't? to. despite everything and all the things i cant help her with, the depression, everything. to be with her. im worried its self destructive. it scares the hell out of me. it may be too late to repair after all my lack of answers for her, im not sure. friends around me think it may be. a part of me thinks it may be too. i dont know!
blind_otter Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Well I asked at my AA meeting, about whether or not you can love if you don't love yourself. The best response I heard was one person who said that you could love, but that the way you express the love gets all twisted up because you don't know how to express it to yourself. This person said that she tends to get "lost" in relationships, totally immersing herself in being with someone else, and it's not fair to the person you're involved with...because you ask too much from another person, to be your self esteem and theirs simultaneously. So the general consensus was that it's not that you can't love someone else if you don't love yourself...but it is very hard to do
Becoming Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Sounds like a good way of putting it--it gets all twisted up. I guess I refuse to believe it's irreparably all twisted up. It just may be that it's like a bunch of necklaces that get all knotted up together that are so hard to undo, but with patience and work, I think we can learn to love again.
blind_otter Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Sounds like a good way of putting it--it gets all twisted up. I guess I refuse to believe it's irreparably all twisted up. It just may be that it's like a bunch of necklaces that get all knotted up together that are so hard to undo, but with patience and work, I think we can learn to love again. Yeah, well. The lady sorta equated it to having an eating disorder. That's why they tell us to stay single for an entire year before starting a new relationship. So we don't fall back on old habits.
CaliGuy Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 is it possible for someone to really love you, even if they swear they do up and down and certainly show (with actions) they have strong feelings for you, if they don't love themselves? if they dont have confidence in themselves or are depressed? i know ive heard the cliche that no, they cant... but does anyone have insight on this? experience? anything??? It's impossible. If you don't love yourself, you will lack confidence and self-esteem. That will shine through in your approach to everything in life. People are quick to pick up on that and it puts you in a negative light. If you don't understand how to love yourself, your relationships will be based on need and not love. Someone else posted this so I'll post it again: "I don't love you because I need you, I need you because I love you." You can not possibly understand how to love someone else if you don't love yourself.
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