itwontdawnsooner Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 is it possible for someone to really love you, even if they swear they do up and down and certainly show (with actions) they have strong feelings for you, if they don't love themselves? if they dont have confidence in themselves or are depressed? i know ive heard the cliche that no, they cant... but does anyone have insight on this? experience? anything??? is it the need to love when youre dependent due to self-hate, or no self-esteem?
blind_otter Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Usually it's people trying to fill an internal void with something external. Drugs, relationships, work, compulsive cleaning -- it never helps and usually destroys the other people/person involved, emotionally, because they become a tool for their partner rather than an individual with needs and wants that should be respected. So, short answer, NO. You can't love someone else if you don't love yourself. I say this from personal experience, being the one who does not love herself most of the time. It is a daily struggle to teach myself this.
Author itwontdawnsooner Posted January 17, 2006 Author Posted January 17, 2006 thank u for responding, and to anyone else who can. so the feeling isnt love? its need?
Barby Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Very good answer B.O. I agree, there isn't much chance of a healthy positive relationship when one partner doesn't love/respect themselves. A lot of times this type of thing leads the partner who suffers from lack of self esteem/love to be more needy, more jealous, more insecure (questioning the actions/words of the partner even without just cause). Doubting the relationship, ect, ect. Not so much that they don't truly love their partner, just that they can't show it in a healthy functional way.
lilmoma1973 Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 You can't give love if you don't even love yourself you are right to think that!! How can you love when you don't even love who you are? Are you saying it is a need to be with this person or this person feels a need ?
EnigmaXOXO Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I think it's possible to "love" another person, but it usually manifests itself more as the 'needy' kind of love that tends to require more from another person than it’s able to give back. Especially if someone is not wholly happy or content within themselves. I think it's just harder to share the best of yourself with another person if you're running on an empty tank.
Author itwontdawnsooner Posted January 17, 2006 Author Posted January 17, 2006 i dont think there is anything that can be done to "fix" that, right? ive never had an SO with this, which is why youre insight and experiences are very helpful!
barfool Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I have/had a serious problem with depression, self-esteem, anxiety etc. while I was in a LTR. I used to tell myself that I "loved" the guy and I usually believed it. In hindsight I do not believe it was love. I needed things that he provided, i.e. security, affection, feeling wanted, emotional stability. I was not providing anything for him in return. It's very sad that I used up those years of his life. But I know that I would be dead if it wan't for him. Since that time I have been greatly improving emotionally but have yet to fall in love again. So I have no basis for comparisson.
grace2005 Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I believe it is very much possible to love others without loving yourself. I mean genuinely love them and not be needy. My brother was that way. He would always help people and do favors and he never complained. He was very compassionate especially with animals. He was a perfectionist though and suffered depression and committed suicide. He was a perfectionist in the sense where he expected alot out of himself than he expected from others I believe he was more of a giver than a receiver. As the saying goes "it's better to give than to receive". But I think there should be a balance and he didn't quite have that balance. I believe suicide is the ultimate disrespect and hatred of oneself no matter how much he loved other people. Some of the most compassionate loving people engage in self destructive, self harming behaviors. So yes it is possible to give love but have a hard time receiveing it. Some find their happiness in trying to make other people happy. That's how my brother was. He did not want to disappoint anybody. If it's possible to love animals without loving oneself then I think it's also possible to love your SO without loving yourself. I might have perfectionist tendencies in myself. I try my best not to disappoint my friends & loved ones or SO. It takes me a long time to forgive myself for even small offenses. I might care too much what other people think and hence I'm a people pleasaer. But it's up to me whether or not I want to live my life by the dictates of what other people think I should be. So I disagree with the philosophy that I must love myself before I can love others. Is it possible to love oneself without loving others? Absolutely. I think the problem with most of humanity is we love ourselves too much. The majority of people in american society do a good job loving themselves. I think we are too self centered in our relationships to take the time to understand our partners. We just take the easy way out and dump them if we are not happy and do not get our way all the time. I believe breaking up should be a last resort. Why not take the time to do everything we can to work out the problems in the relationship instead of walking away? Breaking up may not be the only solution. Work out some compromise. If you can't do that then you don't really love and value your relationship with your SO that much. If it's possible to love oneself without loving others then the converse is also true: It is possible to love others without loving oneself. They are 2 extremes. The solution is balance. 1
grace2005 Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 What if a person does not love themselves simply because they believe they are not worthy of being loved? What if I'm the type of guy who gives love but rejects any kind of love my SO might want to give me in return?? In that case it is possible to love others without loving yourself.
basscatcher Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I think its possible to love someone to a certain degree even if you have negative feelings towards yourself. I think to say that someone doesn't love themselves is a bit overboard because if you didn't love yourself in some form you would have committed suicide. There is hope in oneself and in others. I think low self esteem, low self worth and value are the biggerst cuprits here. Not the phrase 'you cant love someone else if you don't love yourself.' I know we all can find at least one good thing about ourselves even if its the color of our eyes, the way our fingernails are shaped, our ability to feel-whatever..We all have some form of self love even if it seems so small and trivial it is love. We couldn't move forward if there wasn't love in our lives somehow. We would drop dead.. Years ago when I was a child there was an afterschool special on tv based on a true story. I don't remember the title nor the full show but what I do remember is a boy from a very troubled, cold, abusive home was very much a loner, had no friends, one day asked the bus driver to stop the bus (demanded it) and when he stepped off he took a few steps and died instantly. Autopsys showed no health problems or reasons for his immediate death. It was ruled that the kid felt no support, love or life and he died of a lack of love.. I do believe that is possible. We all need each other and we all need to be loved in order for us to feel love for ourselves. Our parents are suppose to love us when we are born or someone else will love us and that is the nurturing that forms our self love and the ability to love back. WE have to have the cycle. If we don't give love how can we recieve love. If we don't recieve love how can we love ourselves? Did anyone understand my rambling.?
Becoming Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 There's a reason why you're asking this question. Sounds like something in you doubts that this is real love as much as it is just the other needing you. Though I've generally learned to trust my deep instincts, I also know that nothing's perfect in this world. Sounds like you're trying to discern if this is a person you want to love or not. Good for you for using your head and asking for others' insights. But we don't know the situation like you do. Nonetheless, sometimes people who lack self-confidence and even self-love are like pets you adopt from the animal shelter: they are so grateful for your love that they turn out to be the most loving pets you could ever ask for out of sheer gratitude, it seems. They can love and grow to love themselves in light of someone's love they never knew before. But sometimes, the shelter dog is too set in his ways and feels entitled to everyone's love to make up for past mistreatment. These are why people think twice about adopting a shelter dog. It's a rotten analogy, of course, because people aren't pets. But only you have the capacity to assess the situation, which, I think, is more ambiguous than a simple yes or no answer.
blind_otter Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I have personally hurt other people to such an extent, from my failure to love myself, that I can't in good conscience say that it is possible. The chances of hurting someone are much higher than helping them. It's called Codependent Enabling. I've been the receiver of this many times. This is not love, never will be, no positive outcomes from enabling someone to tread water.
Author itwontdawnsooner Posted January 17, 2006 Author Posted January 17, 2006 thank you all, becoming youre right. its hard for me to tell what i feel because im worn out emotionally, and i dont know if i should keep waiting to figure it out or let go with some uncertainty. i care, but i dont know how i feel because im so worn out. the word need is used a lot by her. i cant just drop someone
Becoming Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I do believe that is possible. We all need each other and we all need to be loved in order for us to feel love for ourselves. Our parents are suppose to love us when we are born or someone else will love us and that is the nurturing that forms our self love and the ability to love back. WE have to have the cycle. If we don't give love how can we recieve love. If we don't recieve love how can we love ourselves? Did anyone understand my rambling.? Yes, I do, I think. But let me ask for clarification. If we haven't been loved, we have to give it anyway in order to receive it, which will then help us love ourselves? I think it's good for you to know what you're in for if you decide to take on a reclamation of someone who hasn't been loved and can't love themselves as a result. I live in an old house we're restoring. It takes constant work. When it's done (if ever!), it's gonna be so much more glorious than any new house. But I'm to the point where some days I want to walk away and buy a new house because it'd just be so much easier.
blind_otter Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Our parents are suppose to love us when we are born or someone else will love us and that is the nurturing that forms our self love and the ability to love back. WE have to have the cycle. If we don't give love how can we recieve love. If we don't recieve love how can we love ourselves? Did anyone understand my rambling.? How do you know what to give/receive if you've never had it -- and also aren't you at greater risk of getting into unhealthy relationships because you mistake some other kind of behavior for love? One of my parents loved me bunches, growing up. His love was unconditional and lovely. But honestly I still don't know what love really is. What it really looks like. I know what I THINK it is/looks like...
Becoming Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 The being worn out thing is suspect. Sounds like a lot of work. Care to elaborate? And Pada, I hope you answer mine and Otter's questions. We have a personal stake in the answer, and it's be a help.
basscatcher Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 and also aren't you at greater risk of getting into unhealthy relationships because you mistake some other kind of behavior for love? Is not everything in life about lessons? Can we not learn from our mistakes? Isn't that what finding out what love is all about? I am also a strong Catholic and religion teachs strongly about love and most of what I learned is from family, religion, and experience. I beleive we each have a different way of describing what it is but ultimately I believe when we find it WE know it..
blind_otter Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Is not everything in life about lessons? Can we not learn from our mistakes? Isn't that what finding out what love is all about? I am also a strong Catholic and religion teachs strongly about love and most of what I learned is from family, religion, and experience. I beleive we each have a different way of describing what it is but ultimately I believe when we find it WE know it.. I'm SOL, then, eh? No, with all due respect, though, there are some lessons that need not be learned. I think, anyways. Would that I could prevent other women from experiencing what I have. Hey, maybe I did need to learn after getting raped once, but what the hell did I have to learn after getting raped the second time? That I was an idiot with bad luck and no ability to judge character? The greatest regret in my life involves on of those "life lessons"...my ex who is in prison, because of his obsession and inability to control himself. I know he CHOSE to try to kill my friend, but if I hadn't been in his life he could have chosen to try to kill someone else that I didn't know, not in front of me. I dunno. I have told myself what you are saying many times. For me, it never rang true. But I am obviously quite a bit more sarcastic and bitter than you are.
basscatcher Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I have been through hell in my life also. I have made terrible mistakes. I have had many many bad things happen to me because I was nieve. I could still chose to live that life if I would have not faced what was in my face. My choices!!! I chose to look at my life with the hard cold facts and see the truth of it.. I chose to learn to not make the same mistakes and work at figuring out why the things that happened to me did. I use to blame myself totally then I blamed everyone else then I relized that we all were at fault (everyone involved.) I have been raped, I have been verbally, mentally and physically abused, I have also done these things to myself myself. I was pregnant out of marriage, I've lost a child to death, I am divorced. I made bad choices out of insecurity, selfishness, greed, glutony, pride and I know I still will. I have put myself in unsafe situations and knew it but still chose to do those things that ended up hurting me. I have broken all 10 commandments in one way or another. I have to learn from my mistakes or what good came of those thngs happening to me. Its all about being honest with yourself.. Here is a biblical statement on love: http://www.amos-sct.org.uk/literature/hd/corinthians13.htm I carry faith, faith in people, faith in myself, faith in God. I carry perseverence in everything no matter how hard it gets or how hurt I become. I believe: When I am knocked down I will pick myself up I will brush myself off I will learn the lesson (greiving included) I will move forward.
basscatcher Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 The spectrum of Love has nine ingredients Patience--"Love suffereth long."Kindness--"And is kind.:Generosity--"Love envieth not."Humility--"Love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up."Courtesy--"Doth not behave itself unseemly."Unselfishness--"Seeketh not her own."Good Temper--"Is not easily provoked."Guilelessness--"Thinketh no evil."Sincerity--"Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth with the truth."Patience; kindness; generosity; humility; courtesy; unselfishness; good temper; guilelessness; sincerity--these make up the supreme gift, the stature of the perfect man. You will observe that all are in relation to men, in relation to life, in relation to the known today and the new tomorrow, and not to the unknown eternity.
a4a Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Well I have stated this before........ you love a person because you get something from them. You have friends because you get something out of the friendship. a4a ponder that while I go tickle me nipples
blind_otter Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Its all about being honest with yourself.. I appreciate your instructions... sadly honesty has never been difficult for me. Acceptance often has. I was in therapy for years regarding my choices, my depression. AFAIK, denial is the only thing that apparently works. hah
blind_otter Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 But if I read what you wrote in AA tonight, pada, I would get shouted down into my seat for being codependent and enabling.
basscatcher Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 The world can't face its own reality so you would get shot down if you were to be honest. No one likes honesty anymore... I chose to not follow the crowd always. I dare to stand on my mushroom and be ME. I use to sell my being to be liked and accepted. I wont sell my soul anymore.. If I feel a compromise is suitable then I compromise but if not and its over my values and morals then I will stand alone.. I will not be a clone of someone else unless I approve of their way. My Catholic faith has much to do with who I am now as well as the lessons of my past. I am not perfect and I know I will fall on my face but that is my lesson.
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