Too much too soon?

[FredEire]

So I met a girl a couple of weeks back in a bar, we got chatting and I ended up getting her number and said I'd take her out for a drink. We got texting a bit the next day, and arranged to meet the following week, I noticed she wasn't super responsive but I figure often pretty normal when we've basically met for 15 minutes in a bar. So the day comes and she text me to say she's sorry that her friend has a going away party she completely forgot about and if we can do another day. I wasn't super impressed that she didn't let me know herself and she didn't offer an alternative but I just said sure, let me know if you want to reschedule. So another couple of days pass and she texts again to say that she was sorry, she got really sick and she'd let me know when she was better etc. At this point I took it as kind of a soft not interested and just forgot about it.

Fast forward another few days and I'm surprised to see she texts again to tell me she's feeling much better if I still want to meet, I ask what days are best and we agree to meet on Monday. So we meet, and the date actually goes really well. Seems like a really nice girl, very attractive and we seem to be getting on pretty well. It's been a pretty rough year for me dating wise and I can be an overthinker at the best of times but I try to ease into it and in the end we end up kissing and staying until the bar closes, then walking back from the city centre together. Right at the end as she's about to take the turn to go home she's kissing me a lot and telling me she really enjoyed the night, didn't want to leave, and bringing up all sorts of things she wants to ask me "on the next date", and we end up staying there for quite a while.

So I go home having really enjoyed the night and then just send her a text saying I hoped she got home safe and it was great. She sees the message but doesn't reply until the next day which strikes me as a little weird but I try not to overthink it. But over the next couple of days something just feels... flat. It's more of a gut feeling than anything but there's a bit of a contrast from the energy of the date, what she's sending me still seems pretty engaged but there's pretty long gaps in between messages etc, and from what I remember from girls I dated properly in the past we were usually talking a whole lot the first few days especially and meeting again just kind of felt like an inevitability, something here just felt a whole lot more distant. But as mentioned I'm an overthinker and everyone has different communication styles and commitments etc, so I tried not to read too much into it.

She also told me that she was going away this weekend until next week, but she mentioned previously she wasn't doing anything on Thursday, so partly testing the waters a little bit and partly because I would have genuinely liked to see her again I texted this afternoon in passing asking if she wanted to meet up again before she goes. Basically, that message was left on read and she hasn't replied since.

So I'm left wondering if I just overplayed my hand a bit really. I see some people advise that the max you should stay in a first date is an hour because you don't want to jump the gun and leave a bit to the imagination. It felt natural to stay on longer because I was really enjoying myself and it seemed she was as well but maybe the walking home together was a bit excessive, although in the past I've had long first dates that have led to many more dates, so it's not necessarily that and the vibe was good. In addition she's new in town and said it was a first time going out with a local guy, so maybe she just got swept up in the novelty of it, woke up and realised she wasn't that into it, idk. I tried to go with the flow and think I did for the most part but maybe found it hard not to get a little overinvested because this year there hasn't been much going on romantically and the dates I've had here and there have either been nice girls but total damp squibs or flat out shitty experiences, so it was nice to finally meet someone I actually felt a bit of a spark with.

Any thoughts?

Edited October 15 by FredEire

[Gebidozo]

I don’t think her reduced communication after the date has anything to do with the length of the date itself.

I also don’t think that the reduced communication necessarily means that she’s lost interest in you. It could be that, or it could be something else entirely. 

It’s really too early to tell. Unless she completely ghosts you or keeps delaying the second date indefinitely, there is no reason to overthink the current situation.

If she doesn’t reply for a few days, maybe send her another message, stating more emphatically that you want a second date, maybe suggest something concrete.

[Sony12]

Yep that happens. People get a little carried away on the first date and things get physical only for them to seem quite different once the date is over.

Probably lots of reasons. They get carried away on the date but then after they get home they begin thinking better about what they did. Also people who are just wanting to keep things casual usually get a little turned off if there is too much communication. 

I think your gal while somewhat interested only wants to see you on her terms. She very likely has other guys she is talking to as well. 

[FredEire]

12 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

I don’t think her reduced communication after the date has anything to do with the length of the date itself.

I also don’t think that the reduced communication necessarily means that she’s lost interest in you. It could be that, or it could be something else entirely. 

It’s really too early to tell. Unless she completely ghosts you or keeps delaying the second date indefinitely, there is no reason to overthink the current situation.

If she doesn’t reply for a few days, maybe send her another message, stating more emphatically that you want a second date, maybe suggest something concrete.

Possibly, it just hasn't been my experience generally that if you're seeing someone and they're interested (even casually, unless it's like booty-call level casual) that texts get left on read for hours or days.

Flaky communication hasn't really lead to anything good in the past. The very odd time I got laid on a night that felt very clearly like a one and done, most of the time it was one or two dates and then a total fizzle out.

I recall one time I went on another first date with a girl who was also a pretty sporadic texter that was also for the most part really good, but towards the end of the night she decided to tell me all about her ex of several years who she'd kicked out of their apartment because he was cheating on her. A couple of days after she saw I was doing a comedy open mic on Instagram and asked if she could come along as she was in the area. She came to see me, we had a couple of beers after the show and she was very affectionate, but from the next day on it was very brief answers and eventually nothing. In that case I just put it down to her ex probably still weighing on her mind, but the sudden switch from 100 to 0 was a bit jarring and strange.

[FredEire]

40 minutes ago, Sony12 said:

Yep that happens. People get a little carried away on the first date and things get physical only for them to seem quite different once the date is over.

Probably lots of reasons. They get carried away on the date but then after they get home they begin thinking better about what they did. Also people who are just wanting to keep things casual usually get a little turned off if there is too much communication. 

I think your gal while somewhat interested only wants to see you on her terms. She very likely has other guys she is talking to as well. 

Yeah, agree with this. I generally know when there's a vibe that the girl wants to hook up, but I wasn't getting the feeling that that was on the table that particular night and I generally don't like to push things on a first date unless she's already made it clear that she wants some fun or is giving pretty heavy signals to that effect. Also sometimes I think if there is potential for something a bit more solid to develop sleeping with someone on the first date can throw that off completely for one or both people. I prefer not to do it as a general rule, but if the girl just wants a good time and I'm into it I'm not against that either.

Yeah, these days I think you have to assume that, especially for an attractive woman who hasn't been in town long. The tough part of dating for guys is you're probably in constant competition with 10 other guys in her DMs unless she takes a particular shine to you. It did cross my mind that the whole thing about being busy/sick initially could well have been her briefly seeing another guy and when that went nowhere she decided to get back in touch with me.

Edited October 16 by FredEire

[Sony12]

9 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Yeah, agree with this. I generally know when there's a vibe that the girl wants to hook up, but I wasn't getting the feeling that that was on the table that particular night and I generally don't like to push things on a first date unless she's already made it clear that she wants some fun or is giving pretty heavy signals to that effect. Also sometimes I think if there is potential for something a bit more solid to develop sleeping with someone on the first date can throw that off completely for one or both people. I prefer not to do it as a general rule, but if the girl just wants a good time and I'm into it I'm not against that either.

Yeah, these days I think you have to assume that, especially for an attractive woman who hasn't been in town long. The tough part of dating for guys is you're probably in constant competition with 10 other guys in her DMs unless she takes a particular shine to you. It did cross my mind that the whole thing about being busy/sick initially could well have been her briefly seeing another guy and when that went nowhere she decided to get back in touch with me.

I'm guessing most gals who take the initiative to start kissing a guy on the first date at the very least wouldn't be taken aback if the guy asked them to come back to his place or asked if they'd like to get a hotel room.

They may not always accept the offer but I doubt they would be turned off or offended by the proposition.

[FredEire]

49 minutes ago, Sony12 said:

Yep that happens. People get a little carried away on the first date and things get physical only for them to seem quite different once the date is over.

Probably lots of reasons. They get carried away on the date but then after they get home they begin thinking better about what they did. Also people who are just wanting to keep things casual usually get a little turned off if there is too much communication. 

I think your gal while somewhat interested only wants to see you on her terms. She very likely has other guys she is talking to as well. 

And the funny part is that when I was younger and mostly looking for hookups/casual I ended up in many situationships where the girl eventually told me she had developed feelings and wanted something serious and I had to let her down gently.

Now I'm a bit older and sick of situationships it seems like nobody actually wants to date, lol.

[FredEire]

9 minutes ago, Sony12 said:

I'm guessing most gals who take the initiative to start kissing a guy on the first date at the very least wouldn't be taken aback if the guy asked them to come back to his place or asked if they'd like to get a hotel room.

They may not always accept the offer but I doubt they would be turned off or offended by the proposition.

I actually did tell her at one point no pressure and I understand if it's a bit early but I'd really like to spend the night with you. At the time I thought she agreed it was a bit early but there was a little bit of a language barrier and later on I though about it and reckoned she didn't understand and thought I just said I was enjoying the date haha.

Edited October 16 by FredEire

[glows]

Your third post vs fifth post in this thread are contradictory? quoting is a pain on the phone so not quoting above. You mentioned you didn’t sense a hook up was on the table then you went to shoot your shot anyway by suggesting to go back to your place? Why? She’s probably think damn he was cute but he’s just another player. No guy who is interested long term is going to suggest going back to his place that early. And even if the energy is flowing and vibes feel right it doesn’t work out well in the long run. You’re trading steady regulated and measured interactions where you can give each other your full consideration whether to pursue things long term for quick fiery connection and rushed intimacy. if she was flaky in the start and too casual I think that might have sealed it or just pushed her away/you gave the wrong impression.

If you want to salvage it actually be clear with your intentions. My guess is she’s not really in the headspace anyway for anything too serious if she’s a newcomer but that’s not always the case. 

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, glows said:

Your third post vs fifth post in this thread are contradictory? quoting is a pain on the phone so not quoting above. You mentioned you didn’t sense a hook up was on the table then you went to shoot your shot anyway by suggesting to go back to your place? Why? She’s probably think damn he was cute but he’s just another player. No guy who is interested long term is going to suggest going back to his place that early. And even if the energy is flowing and vibes feel right it doesn’t work out well in the long run. You’re trading steady regulated and measured interactions where you can give each other your full consideration whether to pursue things long term for quick fiery connection and rushed intimacy. if she was flaky in the start and too casual I think that might have sealed it or just pushed her away/you gave the wrong impression.

If you want to salvage it actually be clear with your intentions. My guess is she’s not really in the headspace anyway for anything too serious if she’s a newcomer but that’s not always the case. 

If I'm feeling a physical attraction and things are getting a bit physical on the first date I like to let it be known that I want her, but not in the sense of "lets jet back to my place now". I've dated girls in the past where it was good to get that out in the open on the first date but we waited for the second or third date and it ended up being a much better decision after having a bit of space for things to grow naturally.

Like I said I do think its better to wait for physical intimacy unless you know its something casual, but in my experience if its not at least a thought on both people's mind early on it generally goes nowhere. I've been on plenty of more formal dates over the last couple of years which just felt more like doing a job interview than anything else.

[Sony12]

@FredEire You said there is a language barrier between you two. Is English not her first language that she uses normally?

[FredEire]

34 minutes ago, Sony12 said:

@FredEire You said there is a language barrier between you two. Is English not her first language that she uses normally?

No, her English is pretty good but she's from a Spanish-speaking country. 99% of the time the conversation was pretty fluid but something more nuanced or idiomatic she might get the wrong idea.

I speak fluent Spanish in any case so it's not a big deal. I usually speak whatever language whoever I'm with is most comfortable speaking.

[glows]

3 hours ago, FredEire said:

If I'm feeling a physical attraction and things are getting a bit physical on the first date I like to let it be known that I want her, but not in the sense of "lets jet back to my place now". I've dated girls in the past where it was good to get that out in the open on the first date but we waited for the second or third date and it ended up being a much better decision after having a bit of space for things to grow naturally.

Like I said I do think its better to wait for physical intimacy unless you know its something casual, but in my experience if its not at least a thought on both people's mind early on it generally goes nowhere. I've been on plenty of more formal dates over the last couple of years which just felt more like doing a job interview than anything else.

Some people can be charming or bubbly even flirty in person but are scanning the room. It’s generally understood that this is just not dating material. You can flirt but keep it classy and not hint at sex especially early on. The women receptive to this are going to be the kind that don’t want to date long term. Your behaviour and actions are basically what’s attracting women who don’t take you seriously. You’re that guy who is fun to go out with, respond whenever it’s convenient but ultimately not bf material. Sorry to be blunt. 

Edited October 16 by glows

[Sanch62]

Just as you've outgrown many facets of your youthful experiences, it's helpful to credit the women you date today with the same. That's why it makes no sense to apply the kind of youthful tethering to messaging that was part of your past as any measurement of a woman's interest in you today. Lots of people outgrow that stuff and limit texting to making plans, negotiating those, and later, confirming those, rather than as a way of bonding.

Reading a late-night text while too tired to respond is common and not a dis.

I'm not being critical of you, I'm on your side. Overthinking can prompt you to invent stories about others and then react to those as truth. This woman could have ghosted. Instead, took the ball and remained encouraging until she could set up new plans. She came through despite all the stories you told yourself. She may not be an avid texter, but if you consider that to be a skill and judge her based on it, you're the one who loses.

Head high, and consider accepting face value as a thing. Plenty of successful daters do this without attempting to predict the future. Try liberating yourself from that, and enjOy.

Edited October 16 by Sanch62

[FredEire]

So I'm still somewhat in contact with this girl, I text her when she was back from the trip and she told me it was nice etc. I said I'd love to hear more and asked about meeting up this week.

She texted back a full day later saying she's only free Sunday this week because she's working Friday Saturday, but it didnt strike me as very enthusiastic and she didn't propose an alternative.

Am I overthinking? I dont really think that it's that she's not a phone person as she posts a lot on her Instagram etc. I'd genuinely like to meet up again after the first date but my gut's telling me maybe its better to just tell her we're on different pages rather than chase after someone making a minimal effort.

[Sony12]

23 minutes ago, FredEire said:

So I'm still somewhat in contact with this girl, I text her when she was back from the trip and she told me it was nice etc. I said I'd love to hear more and asked about meeting up this week.

She texted back a full day later saying she's only free Sunday this week because she's working Friday Saturday, but it didnt strike me as very enthusiastic and she didn't propose an alternative.

Am I overthinking? I dont really think that it's that she's not a phone person as she posts a lot on her Instagram etc. I'd genuinely like to meet up again after the first date but my gut's telling me maybe its better to just tell her we're on different pages rather than chase after someone making a minimal effort.

She's definitely got you on the back burner and is likely of the frame of mind that she will get together with you as long as she doesn't have anything better to do.

Whatever the case you are far more interested in her than she is in you. You will likely get her to go out again if you persist long enough but probably better to put more focus on someone who will have similar interest levels as you do.

Edited October 23 by Sony12

[FredEire]

29 minutes ago, Sony12 said:

She's definitely got you on the back burner and is likely of the frame of mind that she will get together with you as long as she doesn't have anything better to do.

Whatever the case you are far more interested in her than she is in you. You will likely get her to go out again if you persist long enough but probably better to put more focus on someone who will have similar interest levels as you do.

Yeah I definitely get that feeling. I've been in similar such situations where I ended up going on more dates and wondering why I made the effort when it petered out.

I'm pretty weary of dating people where I'm the only one trying to carry the energy. It seems to be almost the norm in today's OLD world.

[Sanch62]

4 hours ago, FredEire said:

Am I overthinking?

Yes you are. Tell us what's so horrible about Sunday?

Again, you're expecting a simple text message to carry some kind of magic weight of infusion. Why? How does that serve you beyond talking yourself out of appreciating her encouragement by naming the day that she IS free?

Sounds like you want some silly emojis and BS to inspire you instead of bringing the right vibe to your own table. I'd make a plan for Sunday and approach that with respect for her time and yours, as opposed to inventing the most negative mind-spins to deflate yourself, only to play that vibe out and confirm that, yes, negativity DOES tend to fall flat with others--so why do you invent so much of it?

Edited October 23 by Sanch62

[Sanch62]

3 minutes ago, Sanch62 said:

Yes you are. Tell us what's so horrible about Sunday?

Again, you're expecting a simple text message to carry some kind of magic weight of infusion. Why? How does that serve you beyond talking yourself out of appreciating her encouragement by naming the day that she IS free?

Sounds like you want some silly emojis and BS to inspire you instead of bringing the right vibe to your own table. I'd make a plan for Sunday and approach that with respect for her time and yours, as opposed to inventing the most negative mind-spins to deflate yourself, only to play that vibe out and confirm that, yes, negativity DOES tend to fall flat with others--so why do you invent so much of it?

You know, Fred, I apologize. I think I should probably take this back, because it sounds like you've already sunk yourself on this one. 

It might be helpful to consider whether you recognize a pattern of sinking your own trajectory whenever you don't get fan-fare level enthusiasm from a text conversation. I'm not implying this is absolutely true, but it's what I've picked up as a possibility. 

[FredEire]

2 hours ago, Sanch62 said:

You know, Fred, I apologize. I think I should probably take this back, because it sounds like you've already sunk yourself on this one. 

It might be helpful to consider whether you recognize a pattern of sinking your own trajectory whenever you don't get fan-fare level enthusiasm from a text conversation. I'm not implying this is absolutely true, but it's what I've picked up as a possibility. 

No, of course I'm not expecting magic. But I've got a good amount of dating experience and I've always found that in general with people Ive ended up seeing for a longer period, there was more communication in between dates, lots of curiosity, making plans felt mutual and quite natural etc. On the other hand with things that went nowhere things were much more sporadic, dry answers, I felt like I was the only one carrying on the conversation etc.

The reason I started this thread is that in general the second category was generally after dates that were a bit "meh" or I felt a lot of mixed signals, whereas this time there's a bit of a mismatch between how well the date itself went and the communication afterwards.

Anyway, I see no reason to get into an argument about it, thanks for your thoughts.

[Gebidozo]

9 hours ago, FredEire said:

Am I overthinking?

You are.

I think that, before anything can be said about that girl’s level of interest, you need to stop worrying.

That girl, or any other one you’ll be dating, are going to pick up on those anxious vibes of yours. Even if you try as hard as you can to hide them and are convinced that they aren’t reflected in your text messages. People always feel those things.

That, in itself, will keep lowering your chances regardless of any other circumstances. Overthinking is off-putting and ultimately exhausting.

I’m saying that as some who used to have, and still have to an extent, serious anxiety issues. I overthink everything and worry about everything. I can only say that you shouldn’t go that way at all, because it leaves nowhere and ruins everything.

 

 

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

You are.

I think that, before anything can be said about that girl’s level of interest, you need to stop worrying.

That girl, or any other one you’ll be dating, are going to pick up on those anxious vibes of yours. Even if you try as hard as you can to hide them and are convinced that they aren’t reflected in your text messages. People always feel those things.

That, in itself, will keep lowering your chances regardless of any other circumstances. Overthinking is off-putting and ultimately exhausting.

I’m saying that as some who used to have, and still have to an extent, serious anxiety issues. I overthink everything and worry about everything. I can only say that you shouldn’t go that way at all, because it leaves nowhere and ruins everything.

 

 

Don't I know it, it's something I'm constantly working on but I grew up in a household with two extremely anxious parents who were anxious about us and everything around them. It's something I think you can minimise in your life but not entirely move out of if you have that predisposition.

That said while in terms of relationships I've certainly got in my own way with anxiety once or twice, there's also been plenty of times when it was just a dud/we weren't compatible/she herself had a lot of unresolved mental issues etc. etc. That's why whenever something interesting pops up I try and ask myself how much of one or the other is playing its part.

[Sanch62]

5 hours ago, FredEire said:

The reason I started this thread is that in general the second category was generally after dates that were a bit "meh" or I felt a lot of mixed signals, whereas this time there's a bit of a mismatch between how well the date itself went and the communication afterwards.

I understand. I respect your choices regardless, and I just want to ask, how much difficulty would it take to meet her to learn whether she might pleasantly surprise you again? You were already tanking yourself with assumptions about her prior to this great date, even though she stepped up to make the save, and you got to enjoy a wonderful time together.

For all you know, she might confide something about her communication, or you might find yourself comfortable enough to bring it up and learn something that could serve you well. It's not 'wrong' if you don't want to do this, but is there really much of a down side?

[FredEire]

12 hours ago, Sanch62 said:

I understand. I respect your choices regardless, and I just want to ask, how much difficulty would it take to meet her to learn whether she might pleasantly surprise you again? You were already tanking yourself with assumptions about her prior to this great date, even though she stepped up to make the save, and you got to enjoy a wonderful time together.

For all you know, she might confide something about her communication, or you might find yourself comfortable enough to bring it up and learn something that could serve you well. It's not 'wrong' if you don't want to do this, but is there really much of a down side?

Well I'm supposed to meet her this Sunday.

So I'm just going to chill and see what energy she bring basically.

I agree with yourself and Gebidozo that I put too much weight on things working out when I meet someone I feel a spark with because well, its been a long time since I was in that situation to be honest.

A lot of times I've dated people in the past I was the one who was a lot less invested and in "see where it goes" mode, which I realise isn't fair on whoever you're seeing once feelings get involved.

The last "proper" relationship I had seemed perfect at the beginning, we were both into eachother and everything felt completely natural, then jealousy started creeping in and it was a year of putting out fires basically. There's also been a couple of false starts that turned into horror shows, a girl I met just before I had to go away to finish my Masters, stayed in contact for the 3 months I was away and then when I got back she started a big fight and stormed off an hour into the second date.

So I'm a bit jaded by it all to be honest, I know it's really important to keep an open mind but youre also informed by your experiences, so it can be a bit tricky at times.

[Sanch62]

4 hours ago, FredEire said:

Well I'm supposed to meet her this Sunday.

So I'm just going to chill and see what energy she bring basically.

It's not all about her energy, bring your OWN energy to this. Anything worth doing is worth doing well. The best way to encourage someone else is to tip your own hand just enough to show them you like them, too. Without either offering that kind of inspiration, you get a stalemate. If your goal is to learn whether the simpatico you enjoyed on your last date can be tapped again, step up to tap into it. EnjOy. 

Quote

I agree with yourself and Gebidozo that I put too much weight on things working out when I meet someone I feel a spark with because well, its been a long time since I was in that situation to be honest.

Everybody feels vulnerable. Don't create a false comparison in your head where everyone else freely enjoys dating without ever feeling anxious or fearful. Those are NOT signs of impending failure, they are common to everyone. If you spin them into a negative prescription, you'll fold or play out an imaginary hand that was never really dealt to you--you picked it on purpose. That's not self-protection, it's self-sabotage.

Quote

A lot of times I've dated people in the past ...

The last "proper" relationship I had ...

So I'm a bit jaded by it all to be honest ...

Our past is only useful when we take the right lessons from it. Otherwise, it's just a barrier. So if you don't see better results today, then skip the old thinking, form a new vision, and move toward that instead of stagnating in a pile of useless goo from old mistakes.

You've got every right and reason to enjoy your Self without carrying old weight. Let that go. Extricate every bit of joy out of every experience for its own sake. When you can learn to do that, you'll stop suffering expectation hangovers that harm your next experience. Keep focused on the experiences, instead. The rest will come together for you, or it will release you, and without any need to write a script.

Good luck, Fred!