Disrespect and trust issues girlfriend and her female friend

[stoic8]

Looking for advice (M40) no children with girlfriend (F45) with ptsd from childhood and ex, divorced with children co-parenting with ex. 

She has children most of the time with alternate weekends free.

She can drive, but doesn't own a car. I don't mind that and I've told her that it's not a problem for me, but recently it's caused tension in the relationship and she's admitted she should probably get a car.

She previously had a good female friend (1) (and her partner as a couple) give her lifts to social events, but I noticed recently in the past few months that she no longer does this and seems to have distanced herself from my girlfriend.

My girlfriend has since spent more time with another female friend(2) who has recently come out of a long-term relationship. I've not trusted her so much in the past, she has caused drama early on and recently in our relationship, as I believe she was jealous of my girlfriend. When I confronted her with my girlfriend by my side, she folded and admitted it was a misunderstanding. We moved on.

More recently, I was meeting my girlfriend out, I asked female friend (2) where my girlfriend has gone (she'd gone to the ladies)  and she made a joke about my girlfriend going to meet her second boyfriend. I laughed and made light of it, but she then added, even if my girfriend did, she wouldn't tell me about it.

 

Recently on a Weds my girlfriend messaged me with a social event on the Friday we could both attend, so I told her I'd like to go. We spoke on the phone Thursday and on Friday I assumed she was getting a lift with her female friend (2)

1 hr before the event I messaged her to say I'm leaving soon and is all ok with her plans to get to the event.

She replied no, her friend couldn't make it (personal issues, funeral that day) and that I didn't message her earlier. I called her immediately and offered to pick her up (30 mins in the opposite direction) but she seemed upset that I'd left it so late, and didn't want to make me miss out on the event (mutual friends were going anyway) she was just going to stay at home with her children.

The following weekend she was child free and I suggested another social event on Saturday we could attend. On the Thursday we spoke and she mentioned another social event on the Friday. I said that could be an option, and that she is welcome to come to my place and have dinner together before potentially going out.

On the Friday she messaged me with another social event on the Friday, that her female friend (2) had suggested.

I knew what was going to happen, that she'd eventually decide to go to this event instead of coming to my place first.

I told her that I was open to going but mainly spending time with her was important to me. Later that day she said she's made plans to go with her female friend (2), and that it was another mutual female friends (3) birthday, so she was going to go together with her female friend for a drink, and that it was a female meeting.

However I already knew that mutual friends birthday, we had messaged already and she invited us for a drink.

I tried calling my girlfriend to discuss this, and suggest that we could all go together but she messaged back saying she was busy with getting her children ready to go to her ex.

I informed her that I'd come to see her earlier in the evening, and she was ok with that.

When I got there we started to argue as she said I'd have to drive myself separately as she wanted to catch up privately with her female friend in the car. Her female friend has been going through a lot recently, and I understood that but at the same time felt like she made to be the priority over me, my girlfriend kept saying she only last minute decided to change plans.

My gut was telling me she knew earlier in the day that she'd decided to make her female friend a priority, I just wanted her to be honest and say that. It led to me asking her to show me messages with her friend on the phone but my girlfriend wouldn't show me, and I asked her how can I trust her?

her female friend (2) arrived at that exact moment and it kind of broke the tension. she offered me a lift, we all went together and had a good night.

I stayed over and spent the Saturday until Sunday afternoon with my girlfriend, we had an amazing time and I felt the connection again.

We suggested attending another social event on the Sunday night, her female friend (2) gave her and another female friend a lift. After the event I suggested staying at her place again. I said she should get a ride back with her friend and I'd drive separately.

When I got to her place, I messaged her, she hadn't arrived back yet because her friend was dropping off the other friend first.

I waited in the car and eventually I saw her friend's car. They were sat in the car for quite a while, I wanted to go up to her but felt like I was walking on eggshells and decided to wait around the corner where there was a bench to sit on. She didn't reply to my message.

When she got out the car eventually and came around the corner she said I surprised her like I was spying on her, to which I said no I was just giving her space to catch up with her friend and didn't want to interrupt her.

 

Now that night my girlfriend said that me asking to see her phone messages was controlling behaviour.

I told her that's the last thing that I am, and that if I flipped the situation on her she wouldn't like it if I changed plans last minute and was made not to feel a priority.

 

Now I feel like I should give her distance and allow her to reach out to me if she wants.

Admittedly I never thought I'd be the sort of person to ask to see her phone and I trust her, but recently I've had moments where I  I could see her phone messages. I just want to restore to my previous level of trust in her.

She has a screen cover and a fingerprint lock on her phone because of her children. I have a pin lock she has seen me unlock my phone several times. And I keep it on display for her to see, for example when driving long distance with sat nav.

 

Back to her friends, I feel like my girlfriend is prioritising her friendship with her female friend (2).

Also, I felt with her female friend (1) she was much more encouraging of our relationship and we would hang out together, as couples, and she would often drop my girlfriend off at my place, however I feel like female friend (2) is the opposite, sabotaging the relationship.

[glows]

I don’t think it ever bodes well to ask to see someone’s phone when the issues are trust related unfortunately. What was the worse case scenario? That she’s lying about meeting another man? Or that she’s lying about her facts even if it’s to do something completely innocent? I’d apologize for doing that and confirming it was a lapse of judgment, something you’ll not be doing again. 

It’s highly possible female friend #1 did see something unnerving /controlling or off putting about your girlfriend or even this relationship and peaced out not wanting to get involved and finding your gf’s choices frustrating. 

You said she changed plans last minute and that’s a jolt to you. Loss of trust is also loss of respect and I think you’re dealing with both here. The problem is likely your girlfriend unfortunately. She seems like a little opportunist and a user, using people for cars and rides but never really doing the work in order to deserve the outcome/freedom going to these events. You should be asking yourself why you’re with a partner like that who hasn’t been able to stand on her own and likely heavily depends on others.  

[stoic8]

Thank you for your reply, yes I wouldn't ever think to ask for that but it was more about my lie-detector gut feeling going off in how she was responding to me in that moment, and actually a few weeks ago there was a similar situation, last minute change of plan and she offered to show me the messages from her friend (2) but I told her it's fine I trust her. I think that planted a seed and when she didn't offer to do that again this time, even after I showed her messages with friend (3) I felt slightly more suspicious than usual that she didn't volunteer to this time. It's not normally something we do but I always try to be transparent as possible for the sake of trust.

I'll speak with her and apologise, I admit I do find it hard to apologise in texts and feel better doing it in person. Maybe I'll try both.

I believe she does show appreciation for lifts by paying for other things, buying drinks, bringing food and so on.

But I could tell when I first met friend (1) she mentioned to my girlfriend maybe it's time to get a car(!) Don't know the real reason they don't spend much time together anymore but next time I see the couple I'll try to find out more.

My girlfriend is very independent, and reluctant to fully trust, she's also said she finds it hard to trust men generally because of her past trauma. She sometimes refers to herself as an alpha as she's the eldest in her family and had to help look after her siblings from an early age.

For example, she was reluctant to ask me to pick her up from the airport recently, even after I offered, and she arranged for her friend (2) to pick her up, as she volunteered and seemed happy to do so. 

 

 

Sometimes I get the impression (hindsight) she wants/ expects me to do things for her, but doesn't like to ask.

She's quite low on free time, from parenting her children, and she does set aside most of her free days together with me, or her sister with children. 

I find if she reaches out to make plans with me it works very well, but if I try to make plans or spend a little longer together with her, some times she feels pressured/ needs her own space (avoidant?).

I feel like she is prioritising and investing in her friend, as she is the only one now that can give her lifts.

 

Perhaps also her friend has mentioned emigrating one day, so perhaps she is maximising the time she gets to spend with her. I told her I'm really glad she has such a good friend, but I also reminded her about the drama she has caused.

I admit I do find it hard to communicate my needs promptly, as it takes time to process when difficult situations arise, I'm also wary of coming across as controlling, because of her past. I tend to minimise contact, and let my girlfriend come to me. She asked me what my expectations of her are, and I asked her to be a little more specific. She didn't say, so I told her I had no expectations of her, that I really appreciate our time together, growing as a person and in the relationship we have. 

 

I'm not yet sure how to put across that there is a loss of respect and trust here.

One other thing, after staying over at my place I offered to drive her back to her home town (instead of 15 min train) as I wanted to take her to the shops and spend more time together. She was leaving for a holiday and I was joining her a week later.

After shopping she wanted to walk home. I said it's no problem to drive her back home, especially as it was en route to my drive home.

She wouldn't get in the car with me and, I didn't get out to say goodbye as I thought she would get in, but instead she turned and walked home.

I drove past her on the way but didn't wave as I felt rejected /pushed away.

Still to this day I believe she holds this as a grudge against me. That i should have given her a hug and let her walk home alone. I didn't apologise as it was the way she behaved. I told her she could have been more appreciative that I drove her back to her home town. But she was quite cold and matter of fact about it, just saying she wants to walk home. Afterwards I admitted it was a mistake, that I should have just taken her to the train station and said goodbye. Instead I went the extra mile to spend more time together and it didn't go appreciated. She is angry that I wouldn't let her walk home. She says afterwards that I could have walked together with her. Silly idea as my car was in a paid car park in town.

 

 

 

[glows]

Unfortunately I don’t have much sympathy for individuals who “trauma dump” or use past problems as an excuse for poor behaviour or ongoing deficits in character 

She certainly seems hot/cold and communication isn’t very clear between the both of you. It’s completely inappropriate to ever be fishing for info on her friends or prospective fall outs. Never ever cross that boundary and it’s none of your business why one or some of her friends have moved on. While you do seem respectful overall in regards to her autonomy there are some things that need tweaking. 

In regards to her issues and cold shoulder that’s on her. Not being verbally clear about what she wants or needs and you also not being clear is adding to the confusion. I’d sit down and have a meaningful talk about what you expect out of the relationship together and how often you agree to see one another. Maybe every weekend she’s child free isn’t realistic and multiple days in a row are just pointing to total burnout. For ie see each other on a fri or sat night only. Leave the rest of the weekend for each other to breathe. 

You seem very involved and tagging along with her when she goes out with her friends. It looks harmless on the outset but why? It’s probably why she’s prickly and pushing you away at the moment. It’s because you seem to be enmeshing yourself in her friendships. If you’re also contacting her friends and trying to find out info about her that’s so wrong. Never ever breach those boundaries. 

[stoic8]

Thanks, you are right about many aspects, I will use time to reflect on our behaviour. We've definitely seen each other at least once a week for the past year or so. I'm quite independent too, and was comfortable with once every 2 weeks but we have got closer since being together the last 2 years.

Yes I've had plenty of opportunity to, but have never asked about her through friends, I just found it surprising as they used to spend most weekends socialising and now nothing. Like you say I'll keep it to myself and the truth will emerge in time.

 

I'm not wanting to enmesh, we are all acquainted and friend(3) is mutual my friend too, she is not anywhere near as close with her like she's with friend(2). My friends are there too, just they drive themselves and we don't need to lift share much. Maybe it was a test, I learn fast and move on quickly.

Edited October 15 by stoic8

[stoic8]

I appreciate your thoughts and ideas about her and the way she behaves, its really helpful to get another person's opinion, as I've not told anyone and started to wonder if it's me or mainly her. One aspect I'm working on is to be true to my word. Also maybe a good idea to apologise more, life is too short.

[glows]

Thanks for mentioning and clarifying these are shared and mutual friends. Good to still have healthy boundaries and not use mutual friends or use them as a go between, if that ever comes up as a possible scenario. If she’s not being open with you and secretive or pulling away then focus on the relationship and clarify what your expectations are(both). 

I don’t know how she does it socializing an entire weekend with multiple people plus having 50/50 split with kids every other week/weekend. I went on a couple of dates with someone who had two boys under 10 and he described his weeks with his kids as the best time ever but having to spend the following weekdays recovering from the exhaustion. They won’t be that age forever so good to keep things in perspective. It’s also a good thing that you’ve been patient and open to dating someone with kids although you don’t have any. 

I also wanted to mention that shutting down and stonewalling is a form of manipulation. If you notice that happening regularly with her. Healthy relationships should foster open communication. “I have conflicting thoughts and emotions right now and need some time but let’s talk tomorrow evening” is an example of how both of you can foster or nurture trust in one another as opposed to complete blank spaces and lack of communication leading to more hurt feelings. Don’t rehash situations in detail if conflicted. That’s how arguments get out of control. Ask for time to think and make a plan to come back together and revisit so you’re both on the same page. You’re both accountable for putting in equal efforts. It may be foreign at first but as you both get into this habit you’ll learn quicker and understand one another better, trust builds as you feel confident that you can depend on each other to keep coming back together for baseline understanding. 

[MsJayne]

If you hadn't mentioned that your girlfriend's 45 I would have assumed that she's a teenager according to her childish behaviour. The whole thing about prioritising her girlfriends should be enough to make you rethink this relationship, she has a lot of growing up to do if she wants a healthy relationship with a partner. I would cut contact with her because you're being taken totally for granted. Next time she needs a life somewhere, and hopefully it's a long way, tell her to enjoy the walk and then drive off and wave goodbye. You can do a lot better than a self-absorbed divorcee who has no respect for you. 

[Sanch62]

19 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

If you hadn't mentioned that your girlfriend's 45 I would have assumed that she's a teenager according to her childish behaviour.

My first thoughts exactly--sounds like school kid stuff. OP, you've accepted a position of walking on eggshells around one who's been using her past (and her perception of you as being more invested than her) to take you for granted.

Asking to see her phone wasn't smart. I can only tell you that if my lie detector goes off, I'll walk away from the conversation and consider whether staying involved with someone who strikes me as un-trust-worthy is how I want to live.