whatnext? Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 I'm thankful for places like this - it lets me know that I'm not alone, and that people can get past things like this. So- here is my sad story. My wife and I have been having a major reno of our house done over the past year - things have been busy, to say the least (we have 2 kids and both work). She is a teacher and as i realized over the past year or so has become particularly close with a younger M co-worker. This fall, she mentions him a fair bit-little bit here and there and the fact that they are discussing his relationship with his (new) wife -which isn't a great one. I think- hey wait a minute, thats how OUR relationship started!! She listened to me moan about a girlfriend and a bad relationship....Anyways, I joke about it to myself, but convince myself its nothing. Fast forward to this winter - continued stress of the reno etc. and the approaching holidays. December is generally my busiest and most stressful time at work - but I manage to get a week of to spend with the family - it goes great. We celebrated out 12th wedding anniversary on Jan 8th. THen I start to see a pattern has emerged over the past couple of months...lots of emails and texts to this guy. And an attitude toward me as a no-fun, boring kinda guy - ya I'm 40, but I'm fun, really! We argue on the evening of the 12th about something as dumb as her saying "I want to go out drinking without you". I can't say what it was, but it really got to me - could not sleep that night. So on Friday the 13th I remember a scenario played out in a co-worker's life where he left his boring, no-fun W (and mother of 2 kids) for a lovely woman at the office. I remember feeling so sad for the W because there was nothing she could do. I saw myself as that woman. So did something I'm not proud of - i broke into my W's hotmail account and looked at the messages she and her co-worker were exchanging. I can honestly say that it was the lowest I've ever felt in my life- like being punched hard in the gut, and then falling and falling - i'm still falling. First I see emails from referring to how there relationship is changing; he can't wait to see/email/text her. How he wants to hold her and smell her. This is a joke - I say to myself. Then I see an email from her -tagged onto one of his - which says how much she looks forward to his email and texts, something about the sun not coming up without him, she has a warm soapy shower and thinks of him.....my life is over....but no it gets worse. I see an email from him saying he wants again to smell and hug her but also to taste- yes taste. Ok now my life is over. The only thing that could have made it worse was if I saw more of her emails to him, but -hows this for a silver lining - she didn't save her outgoing emails. When I confront her - I ask her what her relationship is to the co-worker. I don't let her know i've seen the emails and that the words are seared into my eyeballs. I get nothing from her-just bitter dissappointment and another punch to the gut. She tells me that they share things and talk a lot but that she mostly listens. We talk until very late, but she does'nt acknowledge anything. I move out of the bedroom that night -and finally the next day my anger is to the point where I can let her know i have seen the emails - i figure I owe her that much. Okay, now it comes out- cutting to the chase -they figured out in the fall -after he returned from his honeymoon- that there was an attraction, but have not acted on it in any way, other than hanging out a log and now the emails. She tells me that the erotic emails have "only just started" and she never intended it to go any further. There was nothing physical i'm told- sorry don't belive her. She felt she could maintain this relationship and not affect ours. I point out that maybe the reason she's being so critical of me is because has a fall back? Hmmm ya think? Why did she do it? Believe me when I say I am a humble guy, and I am good husband - not perfect, but good. Anyways, she is not sure - maybe being flattered at this attention by a younger man. I point out the parallel between how our relationship stared and this on - she is surprised. I tell her that i believe that this erotic talk was just setting the stage for the dirty deed itself. For me the infidelity has already occured - physical or not. The upshot - I will not leave my kids (they are 8 and 5). I am not sure if I want to stay with her, but for the time being we both live in the house - I have moved to the basement. She has said she wants to stay with me. I really, relly encouraged her to leave and go off into the sunset with her fantasy friend - I think that would have been easiest on me. My emotions are in shut-down and self-protect mode - she is not dead to me- she is still mother to my children, but I cannot care what she does anymore. Today she has told the co-worker I know everything, saw everthing- he is to stay away from her and vice versa. He is transferring and will be telling his wife about this dirty little secret, maybe because in one of angry moments I mentioned I might tell her so she could "share the pain" - I know, not nice, but I'm not feeling particularly nice right now- and I've got nothing to lose- my marriage, my faith, my trust in "life" partner have all been shown to be shadows. Me- I go between wanting to kick her out of all of our lives forever, wanting to screaming and yell and belittle her and wanting to hold her and try to forget this bad dream - this cycle happens every 2 seconds and has been since I found out. I also don't believe I know everything yet. I'm having a blood test for STDs and will be asking her to have one as well. I don't know what to do- (a) work at trying to re-building something and risk being hurt again. I need to say that my fear is that I will be someone who constantly brings up this event and cannot let it go, or, (b) just call it a day and move on - and deal with morass that is divorce with kids - the shared custody, seeing them on weekends and holidays. the latter option is really tough because the only people i care about right now are my kids - and they are the ones that will suffer if we split. So my feeling right now is I'm stuck- unless I want to make something out of this situation. I think until I figure out what I can do, we stay together in the house - playing happy families to the kids and the outside world. We do talk and are civil to each other. Is it unhealthy to stay in the house together feeling how I feel ? Would we be better off getting separated and figuring it out that way? She is going to seek counselling - of course, I will participate. Any thoughts/advice would be welcomed.
Bryanp Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 I am so sorry for your pain. First, I would contact the OM's wife immediately. It is doubtful that he will tell her anything or anything of consequence. Second, you are very wise to get both of you tested. A man does not email and say the things you mentioned unless they were very very close (ie. wanting to smell her, wanting to taste her etc.). My bet is your wife is totally lying to you. She is playing you and refusing to be honest. It is sad how easy it was for her to lie to you and cheat on you. Only you can decide whether you wish to remain with a spouse who would this to you. If the roles were reversed, do you think your wife would accept such bull**** from you?
Kat2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 The feelings you are having right now are normal to any extent for a betrayed spouse. They will ease with time regardless of your decision to recover your marriage, or to divorce. That’s not to disqualify your pain by any means–this type of betrayal is without a doubt one of the most painful experiences a person can go through. You may want to consider Marriage Counseling . Also check out marriagebuilders.com. Lots of great advice on how to recover from this betrayal, be it a physical or emotional affair. By the way. by the tone of your email you sound as if you are handling every thing as level headed as you can considering the circumstances--and I commend you on this. You have no reason to feel guilty for invading your wife’s privacy. You had an intuition-gut instinct and were right to act on it. You were defending your marriage which as a interested party, is your right to do. I agree with other poster, you do need to contact other man’s wife. She has the right to know. Exposure is generally recommended. What’s more it may go a long way to assure to break contact between your wife and the OM as she’ll be a interested party as well. Don’t believe everything that your wife tells you. While she may be being honest with you, consider the source–other man ( telling your wife he is going to tell his wife). Did I read right, this OM is a serial cheater–he’s done this before? If so there is a chance that he will do this again. Yet another reason to consider telling his wife. Also OM’s wife may have some inside info and thoughts on this matter–her own suspicions and may be able to achieve evidence to prove or disprove the affair was physical or just emotional if you are wanting to know. Good Luck,
Ladyjane14 Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 It's perfectly okay for you to take a "time out" to digest this. It would be weird if you didn't need to do that. She'll press you for resolution, but it's alright for you to remain noncommittal while you're thinking things through. She's not going to be at all comfortable with wondering what you're going to do....so she's going to want to talk, but YOU don't have to agree to anything you're not ready for. I would urge you to make NO movements that will escalate your situation until you've had time to know your own mind. You've had quite a shock, and it will serve BOTH of you well to pay special attention to considerate behavior for right now. It's possible that this was an EA (emotional affair) and hasn't become physical. You might consider leaving room for that possibility while you're mulling things over. Try not to be reactive until you've had all the details and TIME to think about your options.
Presario Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Whatnext, I will share my own story first, then I will answer your questions. My wife has friends with whom she talks online, exchanges messages, and meets sometimes in person. All her friends are male. In total she has 5 friends. Some friends are short-term (these rotate), while others are long-term. What they talk about varies. They talk not only about movies or their hobbies, but about relations and sex as well. When her friends talk verbosely about sex, she listens patiently. Jokingly she occasionally tells them some intimate detail. She keeps in touch with two guys in particular. One is like a brother to her, they talk comfortably and joyfully sometimes for many hours. The other guy ain't that much fun for a single reason: he has got a crush on her. Because of this he has made her uncomfortable a few times by telling her that he loves her and wants to have an affair with her. My wife doesn't reciprocate his gestures. He's married. Now, I would have gone mad if I had found a love message from this guy before I knew about him. This would have put me in a position where you are now. I'm glad, however, that my wife has kept me up-to-date with her relationships. She usually tells me important details right away. And here is the difference: your wife kept her relationship secret while mine keeps hers open. Another difference is that my wife isn't attracted to them. I also don't believe I know everything yet. I guess you don't know everything. She didn't tell you anything -- you discovered this on your own. Has she told you some true detail? Something you can verify? If so, then it's a good sign. Do you know the name of the OM? If so, tell his wife about the affair. Is it unhealthy to stay in the house together feeling how I feel? It depends on you. If you can take it, do it. If not, do it at least for a while for your kids. I think until I figure out what I can do, we stay together in the house (...) Don't make any serious moves now. You only have a few pieces of the puzzle. Maybe the complete picture is awful, maybe not that bad. Wait and watch. Try to learn more about the affair and the OM. I'm interested to know how your situation unfolds, because it's related to mine a bit. Please, keep us posted. Good luck!
sylviaguardian Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Whatnext, I feel your pain honey - I've been there, only my case it got worse and worse the more I found out. I'm not trying to tell you that she is lying (like some people will automatically say) but when people get caught, 99% of them carry on lying. This might just be an emotional affair - it IS perfectly possible that you caught them before anything happened. Was there anything else that aroused your suspicions? Like coming home late/going in early? If you really are of a mind to find things out (and some people aren't) then check everything. Check her diary, coat pockets, bank accounts - everything. It's amazing what you can find out from small discrepancie e.g. a bill for a coffee house when she says they NEVER left the building. That said, I don't want to make you paranoid. I would definitely tell the OM's wife although it is good that he is transferring anyway. If a marriage is to survive then working together is not an option. Lady Jane told you the same advice she told me and it is sound. You do not need to make a decision now. Put that off as it is just another stressor. Tell yourself you will make a decision in six months. You owe it to your kids to explore every avenue until they are exhausted. In the meantime look after yourself. I felt like you did - my whole life crumbled in front of my eyes and it took me a long time to start feeling better. Counselling helped me just get back on my feet. It's not fun but it does it get better with time, I promise. Syl
Author whatnext? Posted January 18, 2006 Author Posted January 18, 2006 First- thanks very much to everyone who took the time to reply - I appreciate everyone's input. After i wrote my post- I did my research on how to handle yourself in a situation of infidelity. Its truly amazing what is easily available on the web. One of the things I found was entitled "10 Questions to ask you unfaithful spouse". Armed with research, and somewhat unburdened by adding my post i went home, and after the kids were put to bed I spoke to my spouse for 4 hours straight. I asked her absolutely everything - telling her that the truth could not be worse than what I was thinking and begging her to be honest with me. I asked about all the deep, dark things that were tearing me up. There was no yelling, some crying but mostly just the two of us looking right at each other. Before I talk about what she said - please understand that foremost in my mind is the struggle between wanting to believe this was really a stupid EA and thinking it was much more than I even know. Like anyone else, I would love to go back to what I thought I had before and forget about this pain - but don't worry - I am not deluding myself and I know that trust will always be an issue from this point on. -did she love him or ever say she loved him? To this the answer was no, always no, everytime. After nearly 18 years of knowing my W, i did believe her- as much as can at this point. I have known for a long time that she does not have a great self-image and have worried about how that would manifest itself- more on that later. -when did she know there was an attraction? in September- I was very honese that this hurt a lot, and it was at this point that she started to be unfaithful- because they both were attracted to each other, and instead of backing off, the relationship grew. I told her that I have worked very closely with some very attactive women and have felt things for some of them -its normal. The difference was that I turned around as soon as I felt that feeling, I always drew back. -was there every anything physical? the answer was still no- other than a longer than normal hug in September after they got back to school. I pleaded with her to let me know everything now as there was nothing she could say that would hurt me more than what I was thinking. I told her I found it difficult to believe that nothing physical happened given some of the emails I saw. She said that the emails were a very recent thing and stemmed out of their agreement that they both loved their spouses and that their relationship with each other could never go any further. So they wrote a couple sexy emails to each other. Hmm... really deep down, i can believe that this is what they said to each other- but I also told her that I believe 100 percent that this was an escalation in their relationship - and it could only lead to one thing- physical consummation. I also told her that this was another place she could have stopped things and did not. She says she felt it was harmless- mainly because it wasn't real for either of them, but also because it was secret. She insisted that the emails were not hot and sexy descriptions of what they would do to or with each other - but mostly just sexual references. I do not know if I believe things about the content - and I thank god i did not see anything to disprove what she says. In any event, I DO BELIEVE that they were on the path that would have led them to more and more explicit emails..and eventually...the only thing that stopped it was they were caught. -does she believe she was unfaithful - even if nothing physical happened. Yes she completely understands and knows she was unfaithful. I felt bad making her say it, but I need to hear her say it. We talked about more -but those are the high/low lights. When I first found out about this whole thing, I said I would not be a victim - what I meant was I was not going to LET things happen to me, I would take an active role- such as leaving or asking her to leave, or trying to go forward. So after 4 hours of talking and basically interrogating her -no apologies for that- I felt like I knew all she had to tell me. At that point, I started to feel like the victim - you know sitting there and accusing and accusing and all she did was acknowledge the mistakes she made. So after no physical contact for 4 days - I leaned across the couch and gave her a big hug- for no reason other than i needed to and wanted to. The floodgates opened and she cried for really the first time since I had confronted her. We talked some more and I told her that I felt like I needed to give things a shot - no guarantees I could do it, but I wanted to try. We made love -it is true what they say about make-up sex- and talked almost until we fell asleep with exhaustion. Don't worry - we know that we are not out of the woods yet - and that this takes time. To make my marriage work- here is what I HAVE to believe. -She is an imperfect person - this is easy, so am I - so are we all. -She was attracted to someone who paid attention to her- again easy to understand- I've been there. -She didn't understand that she was being unfaithful while she was involved in this EA - this hurts, because it goes to my trust in her. -This relationship was not yet physical. I need to believe this not because I'm a guy and therefore insecure (yes, i am) - but because she has told me nothing happned. - She wants to stay with me. As noted before, she has started to cut off all contact with the OM. She has already obtained numbers for counselling. I told her that I cannot promise her anything in terms of being able to get by this 100 percent- and try as I might to encourage her to leave if she has any doubt- she has told me she wants to stay. -she has learned a lesson -I can forgive and move on. Thanks for all your thoughts.
jmargel Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 I'm thankful for places like this - it lets me know that I'm not alone, and that people can get past things like this. So- here is my sad story. My wife and I have been having a major reno of our house done over the past year - things have been busy, to say the least (we have 2 kids and both work). She is a teacher and as i realized over the past year or so has become particularly close with a younger M co-worker. This fall, she mentions him a fair bit-little bit here and there and the fact that they are discussing his relationship with his (new) wife -which isn't a great one. I think- hey wait a minute, thats how OUR relationship started!! She listened to me moan about a girlfriend and a bad relationship....Anyways, I joke about it to myself, but convince myself its nothing. Fast forward to this winter - continued stress of the reno etc. and the approaching holidays. December is generally my busiest and most stressful time at work - but I manage to get a week of to spend with the family - it goes great. We celebrated out 12th wedding anniversary on Jan 8th. THen I start to see a pattern has emerged over the past couple of months...lots of emails and texts to this guy. And an attitude toward me as a no-fun, boring kinda guy - ya I'm 40, but I'm fun, really! We argue on the evening of the 12th about something as dumb as her saying "I want to go out drinking without you". I can't say what it was, but it really got to me - could not sleep that night. So on Friday the 13th I remember a scenario played out in a co-worker's life where he left his boring, no-fun W (and mother of 2 kids) for a lovely woman at the office. I remember feeling so sad for the W because there was nothing she could do. I saw myself as that woman. So did something I'm not proud of - i broke into my W's hotmail account and looked at the messages she and her co-worker were exchanging. I can honestly say that it was the lowest I've ever felt in my life- like being punched hard in the gut, and then falling and falling - i'm still falling. First I see emails from referring to how there relationship is changing; he can't wait to see/email/text her. How he wants to hold her and smell her. This is a joke - I say to myself. Then I see an email from her -tagged onto one of his - which says how much she looks forward to his email and texts, something about the sun not coming up without him, she has a warm soapy shower and thinks of him.....my life is over....but no it gets worse. I see an email from him saying he wants again to smell and hug her but also to taste- yes taste. Ok now my life is over. The only thing that could have made it worse was if I saw more of her emails to him, but -hows this for a silver lining - she didn't save her outgoing emails. When I confront her - I ask her what her relationship is to the co-worker. I don't let her know i've seen the emails and that the words are seared into my eyeballs. I get nothing from her-just bitter dissappointment and another punch to the gut. She tells me that they share things and talk a lot but that she mostly listens. We talk until very late, but she does'nt acknowledge anything. I move out of the bedroom that night -and finally the next day my anger is to the point where I can let her know i have seen the emails - i figure I owe her that much. Okay, now it comes out- cutting to the chase -they figured out in the fall -after he returned from his honeymoon- that there was an attraction, but have not acted on it in any way, other than hanging out a log and now the emails. She tells me that the erotic emails have "only just started" and she never intended it to go any further. There was nothing physical i'm told- sorry don't belive her. She felt she could maintain this relationship and not affect ours. I point out that maybe the reason she's being so critical of me is because has a fall back? Hmmm ya think? Why did she do it? Believe me when I say I am a humble guy, and I am good husband - not perfect, but good. Anyways, she is not sure - maybe being flattered at this attention by a younger man. I point out the parallel between how our relationship stared and this on - she is surprised. I tell her that i believe that this erotic talk was just setting the stage for the dirty deed itself. For me the infidelity has already occured - physical or not. The upshot - I will not leave my kids (they are 8 and 5). I am not sure if I want to stay with her, but for the time being we both live in the house - I have moved to the basement. She has said she wants to stay with me. I really, relly encouraged her to leave and go off into the sunset with her fantasy friend - I think that would have been easiest on me. My emotions are in shut-down and self-protect mode - she is not dead to me- she is still mother to my children, but I cannot care what she does anymore. Today she has told the co-worker I know everything, saw everthing- he is to stay away from her and vice versa. He is transferring and will be telling his wife about this dirty little secret, maybe because in one of angry moments I mentioned I might tell her so she could "share the pain" - I know, not nice, but I'm not feeling particularly nice right now- and I've got nothing to lose- my marriage, my faith, my trust in "life" partner have all been shown to be shadows. Me- I go between wanting to kick her out of all of our lives forever, wanting to screaming and yell and belittle her and wanting to hold her and try to forget this bad dream - this cycle happens every 2 seconds and has been since I found out. I also don't believe I know everything yet. I'm having a blood test for STDs and will be asking her to have one as well. I don't know what to do- (a) work at trying to re-building something and risk being hurt again. I need to say that my fear is that I will be someone who constantly brings up this event and cannot let it go, or, (b) just call it a day and move on - and deal with morass that is divorce with kids - the shared custody, seeing them on weekends and holidays. the latter option is really tough because the only people i care about right now are my kids - and they are the ones that will suffer if we split. So my feeling right now is I'm stuck- unless I want to make something out of this situation. I think until I figure out what I can do, we stay together in the house - playing happy families to the kids and the outside world. We do talk and are civil to each other. Is it unhealthy to stay in the house together feeling how I feel ? Would we be better off getting separated and figuring it out that way? She is going to seek counselling - of course, I will participate. Any thoughts/advice would be welcomed. I haven't read other people's advice and usually try not to before first answering to a post. When you mention about moving on or staying and risk being hurt again. Well, all I CAN guarantee you is that there are no guarantees. No guarantees that she won't hurt you again and no guarantees that if you move onto another woman she won't hurt you in the future. Life doesn't come with an instruction booklet and often we find ourselves making choices not like how we would make a business decision. I would think she should be living in the basement, you did nothing wrong. Personally I would demand to talk to this OM's wife so that what this OM tells your wife & what your wife tells you is not just a bunch of crap. As for the hotmail at least on mine I know any emails I send do not go into the sent folder. Not sure why. What she did is cheating. The EA is just as bad as the PA, if not worse. Has she done this in the past? That is something you need to ask her. Marriage counseling for both of you would be a must here. Not necessarily to work on the marriage but at first at least give you the insight and the information you need to make that decision to stay in the marriage or not. Read my link in my signature I am sure it will help. We can't answer the question if you should stay with her or not. That's your call only. However we can through our own experiences share with you our advice that might better help you make that decision. Also remember to look within' yourself on how you could have or still could make this marriage better. It takes two to make a marriage work.
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